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Here's the problem...*I* think... *SPOILERS*


ALifeson85
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...as to why so many "casual" concert goers / casual Rush "fans" complain about what Rush decides to play on tour.

 

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You see, the average classic rock concert goer, is WAY TOO USED to seeing bands like Aerosmith, Kiss, Def Leppard, etc. who are ALL very notorious for playing the SAME "Greatest Hits" setlists, tour, after tour, after tour, after tour...and the fans are USED TO IT.

 

80% of them only see Aerosmith, to hear "Dream On", "Dude Looks Like A Lady", "Back In The Saddle", and "Love in an Elevator". They see Kiss to hear "Detroit Rock City", "Rock & Roll All Night", "Shout It Out Loud", and "Lick It Up". They see Def Leppard to hear "Pour Some Sugar On Me", "Photograph", "Foolin'", and "Bringing On The Heartbreak." And fans will ALWAYS get those, and all the other radio hits, when they see those bands.

 

...Then they see and/or hear an advertisement for the upcoming RUSH tour. "Oh man, RUSH!! I LOVE "Chronicles"! I GOTTA GET TICKETS!!" - not knowing that Rush has put out ALOT of music since 1987. They buy tickets for the show. (let's use the "Clockwork Angels" tour for this scenario) They GO to the show. Show starts. The band opens with "Subdivisions", "The Big Money", and "Force Ten". "HELLS YEAH!! 1022.gif", exclaims unidentified concert goer. He now expects to hear EVERY Greatest Hits/Chronicles song. Doesn't happen. Then comes the "Clockwork Angles" suite. "WTF is THIS SH*T?! rage.gif ". By the end of the concert, the guy is so irate, he spends the rest of his days on AN INTERNET FORUM, BITCHING ABOUT THE SETLIST. (Not mentioning names) bolt.gif

 

So in a way, bands like Aerosmith, Kiss, and Def Leppard, SPOIL average concert goers so much, that it ruins anti-nostalgia bands like Rush for them. They figure since THOSE bands play ALLLLLL the same hits on every tour, they expect the same thing from Rush. And here's the funny thing about people complaining about there not being "enough hits" played on the current tour. If you think about it, Rush has sorta ALREADY did two...yes, TWO "Greatest Hits" tours : R30, and the Time Machine Tour. I'll recap: (NOTICE: this includes both "radio hits" AND "greatest hits" found on Rush compilations: Chronicles, Retrospective, etc.)

 

30th Anniversary Tour, we got : The Spirit of Radio, Force Ten, Subdivisions, YYZ, Red Barchetta, The Trees, Tom Sawyer, Mystic Rhythms, Red Sector A, 2112, La Villa Strangiato, Xanadu, Working Man, Limelight.

 

Time Machine Tour, we got : The Spirit of Radio, Time Stand Still, Freewill, Marathon, Subdivisions, Tom Sawyer, Red Barchetta, YYZ, Limelight, Closer To The Heart, 2112, La Villa Strangiato, Working Man.

 

I don't know about you guys - but that's ALOT of "hits", from BOTH tours. But what I don't get, is that some of the people complaining about the Clockwork Angels setlists, and their lack of "hits" and/or over-abundance of mid-80's tunes, are the same people who also attended the R30 and/or Time Machine Tours, got to enjoy all those hits they like, then complain about the "Clockwork" tour - KNOWING that Rush has never been a "nostalgia band"! wtf.gif

 

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Edited by ALifeson85
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QUOTE (ALifeson85 @ Oct 3 2012, 07:43 PM)
But what I don't get, is that some of the people complaining about the Clockwork Angels setlists, and their lack of "hits" and/or over-abundance of mid-80's tunes, are the same people who also attended the R30 and/or Time Machine Tours, got to enjoy all those hits they like, then complain about the "Clockwork" tour - KNOWING that Rush has never been a "nostalgia band"! wtf.gif

It's selfishness - plain and simple.

 

Some people want to hear their songs every tour, and they couldn't care less if the band is sick of playing those songs over and over again, if the band wants to pull other songs out of the Vault, or if the band wants to play their hot new album front to back.

 

All that matters is what they want to hear. new_thumbsdownsmileyanim.gif new_thumbsdownsmileyanim.gif

 

 

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Those above mentioned bands still put out records...play their new stuff and play nostolgia material. I can name other bands that do the same and have very successful tours.

 

I'm sorry, but I am of the opinion that if RUSH wishes to be successful "touring band," they gonna have conform a bit.

 

Note: Iron just sold out a 50,00 seat stadium. Ever wonder why they are constantly a huge touring band? My guess is they know how to appease all their fans - even with new material sprinkled in their set. Plus, one doesn't have to pay top price for a close view (I paid $77.00 for pitt in presale - first "seats" offered - didn't have to do multiple attempts neither - last 4 tours it has been this way).

 

No whining over there in getting seats.

 

 

 

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QUOTE (drgrendel @ Oct 3 2012, 08:00 PM)
Those above mentioned bands still put out records...play their new stuff and play nostolgia material. I can name other bands that do the same and have very successful tours.

I'm sorry, but I am of the opinion that if RUSH wishes to be successful "touring band," they gonna have conform a bit.

Note: Iron just sold out a 50,00 seat stadium. Ever wonder why they are constantly a huge touring band? My guess is they know how to appease all their fans - even with new material sprinkled in their set. Plus, one doesn't have to pay top price for a close view (I paid $77.00 for pitt in presale - first "seats" offered - didn't have to do multiple attempts neither - last 4 tours it has been this way).

No whining over there in getting seats.



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dude enough with the Maiden comparisons.

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Look, I am a new 2.gif fan.... I own the entire discography and the only album that they've released in my time of being a fan is Clockwork Angels.... I started with Time Machine and hadn't heard anything of their material. Didn't like Time Stand Still, Presto, Marathon etc. but you know what. After seeing the first setlists I added each of the songs in order from the studio versions.... Apart from 2112, which I pulled from R30.... I didn't really like the synth era stuff at that point, and you know what???

I adapted.... I learned to like it. And at this point, 2 of my 20 greatest are from Power Windows....

 

So before you go stereotyping the new fans as according to the old fans, please take my story into account....

 

Signals, Grace Under Pressure, Power Windows, Hold Your Fire, Presto, Roll The Bones, all of it rules!

 

 

If 2.gif made it, I love it

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QUOTE (WavesandWindows @ Oct 4 2012, 07:47 AM)
Look, I am a new 2.gif fan.... I own the entire discography and the only album that they've released in my time of being a fan is Clockwork Angels.... I started with Time Machine and hadn't heard anything of their material. Didn't like Time Stand Still, Presto, Marathon etc. but you know what. After seeing the first setlists I added each of the songs in order from the studio versions.... Apart from 2112, which I pulled from R30.... I didn't really like the synth era stuff at that point, and you know what???
I adapted.... I learned to like it. And at this point, 2 of my 20 greatest are from Power Windows....

So before you go stereotyping the new fans as according to the old fans, please take my story into account....

Signals, Grace Under Pressure, Power Windows, Hold Your Fire, Presto, Roll The Bones, all of it rules!


If 2.gif made it, I love it

notworthy.gif notworthy.gif

 

Incredibly well done! I honestly can't stand the attitude of listening something for the first time, not liking it and not giving it a second or third chance. That's what I always try to avoid. Sometimes it's just the listener's fault, we sometimes have TO LEARN how to appreciate some kind of music. When you listen to it for the tenth time and still don't like... fine, at least you tried it, but there's no such thing as an open mind (and ears). So, hats off to you! Keep on 2.gif ing!

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QUOTE (Workaholic Man @ Oct 3 2012, 05:53 PM)
QUOTE (ALifeson85 @ Oct 3 2012, 07:43 PM)
But what I don't get, is that some of the people complaining about the Clockwork Angels setlists, and their lack of "hits" and/or over-abundance of mid-80's tunes, are the same people who also attended the R30 and/or Time Machine Tours, got to enjoy all those hits they like, then complain about the "Clockwork" tour - KNOWING that Rush has never been a "nostalgia band"!  wtf.gif

It's selfishness - plain and simple.

 

Some people want to hear their songs every tour, and they couldn't care less if the band is sick of playing those songs over and over again, if the band wants to pull other songs out of the Vault, or if the band wants to play their hot new album front to back.

 

All that matters is what they want to hear. new_thumbsdownsmileyanim.gif new_thumbsdownsmileyanim.gif

What's wrong with being selfish? Everyone's experience of this band is unique to them and they/we/I have a right to want whatever we want. What's not realistic is to expect them to do it the way we want them to, but still there's nothing wrong with wanting it that way. If I'm disappointed with their choices, do I care what anyone else thinks about that? f**k, no! They might be your band, and they might be 100 million other people's band too, but honestly, what's most important to me personally is that they're MY band. Is that selfish? Of course it is, but I don't give a f**k. People here sure love to criticize other fans when they don't see things the same way they do or don't have the "right" attitude, whatever that is, but I'm all for letting people have their own opinions, views, beliefs, perceptions, etc. about the band however they want to selfishly do that and not put them down for doing so. To expect people to agree with your way of seeing things is really the ultimate selfishness IMHO.

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QUOTE (Rushman14 @ Oct 4 2012, 12:06 AM)
QUOTE (drgrendel @ Oct 3 2012, 08:00 PM)
Those above mentioned bands still put out records...play their new stuff and play nostolgia material.  I can name other bands that do the same and have very successful tours.

I'm sorry, but I am of the opinion that if RUSH wishes to be successful "touring band,"  they gonna have conform a bit.

Note:  Iron just sold out a 50,00  seat stadium.  Ever wonder why they are constantly a huge touring band?  My guess is they know how to appease all their fans - even with new material sprinkled in their set.  Plus, one doesn't have to pay top price for a close view (I paid $77.00 for pitt in presale - first "seats" offered - didn't have to do multiple attempts neither - last 4 tours it has been this way).

No whining over there in getting seats.



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dude enough with the Maiden comparisons.

Yeah, I've taken part in the Maiden comparisons too...and, I guess I can see how it can annoy others. I apologize...

 

I think we do that because a chunk of both fanbases overlap and IN MY MIND it seems both bands appear to keep tabs on the other's business methods to some extent.

 

It hasn't been all gravy for Maiden either. A few years ago, they came to America and played their new record (a record that I didn't like at all) in it's entirety...from front to back. A couple of years ago, they came to the U.S. and did a tour where the setlist was comprised almost entirely of songs made after the year 2000.

 

Trust me, there was PLENTY of grumbling and angry fans then too... Even more so than the angry Rush fans on these forums. Rush has still had Gold and Platinum records into the 90's. Imagine not having bought a Maiden record since 1988 and getting a setlist of all newer songs...they didn't even play The Trooper.

 

In between these controversial tours though, Maiden always does a delibrately "nostalgia" tour (like the current Maiden England tour). It appears to me that Rush does this as well.

 

I'm happy with Rush alternating between deep cut/new song tours and casual fan friendly tours. The problem comes in when tickets are purchased months in advance, and you have no idea that the band is going to ignore almost all of their most well known songs.

 

One last thing...as mentioned above with the ticketing... Dang, I had GREAT luck getting close up seats for Maiden effortlessly through pre-sales and even general sales. And their "Ticketless" approach where you gain entry by having the credit card you purchased the tickets with limits scalping opportunity. I wouldn't mind Rush adopting that.

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QUOTE (Gemari77 @ Oct 4 2012, 09:38 AM)
The problem comes in when tickets are purchased months in advance, and you have no idea that the band is going to ignore almost all of their most well known songs.

That's going to happen with older bands that are still making new music, still experimenting, still striving to keep their careers fresh and exciting.

 

One can buy tickets to a KISS concert a year in advance and know exactly what will be played. Can't do that with Rush or any other band that's still putting out new music.

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QUOTE (eshine @ Oct 3 2012, 11:29 PM)
QUOTE (drgrendel @ Oct 3 2012, 10:00 PM)
I'm sorry, but I am of the opinion that if RUSH wishes to be successful "touring band,"  they gonna have conform a bit.

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seriously?

 

SERIOUSLY???

laugh.gif Speaking of missing the point....

 

Another thing - how many casual Rush fans are there really? I think far less of a perecentage than just about any other band. Rush fans have made it their reputation of being hardcore, rabid, loyal and devoted. Just the phrase "casual Rush fan" strikes me as a bit of an oxymoron and a contradiction in terms.

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seriously?

 

Ok...on a serious note...please someone..anyone...define the following:

 

CASUAL fan

TRUE fan

HARDCORE Fan

 

I am interested because I wish to know what category I fit in. Here are my credentials:

 

Own everything they released (non-bootleg material only) studio or live

Own all their DVDS

Read all of Neil's Books

Attended at least one show per tour since May 9, 1981 - sometimes multiple shows per tour

 

IMO - the current CA Tour is their weakest to date and I cringe at the thought of having to sit through more of their videos.

 

I really need to know what type of fan I am.

 

Thank you in advance to all those who are all knowing.

 

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On the Maiden topic, check the wikipedia page for the current tour, it has attendance figures for the US shows. Guess what? With a few exceptions, 9,000-12,000 people or so, about what Rush is drawing on this tour. The Maiden show that sold out 50,000 tickets is the first rock concert at a brand new stadium in a country full of metalheads! so it's not really a good comparison.

 

 

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1. Do we have any concrete figures for the current CA Tour?

2. I brought that Maiden reference in (sorry to have done that and I will certainly refrrain from it again) to demonstrate that RUSH is not the only band of significance bringing in the crowds. However, I do believe that they would have trouble coming close to selling out the larger stadiums around the globe.

 

The USA is supposed to be THE Market for RUSH, not Maiden.

 

Compare the RIO shows of both bands - 55,000 for one and 250,000 for the other. As a hint, the band from Canada was the smaller draw.

 

Last time, I FRIGGEN LOVE RUSH AND ALWAYS WILL LOVE RUSH>>>>BUT THEY AIN"T ALL THAT........

 

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The OP brings up some good points about how concert goers get used to hearing the hits live because a lot of calssic rock bands do just that tour after tour. But I think Rush is a little guilty of letting fans think that they'll be playing the hits just as much as any other classic rock band.

 

The reason I say this is because of the setlists they've done for the VT, R30 and TM tours. Three out of the last four tours before the current one started have had setlists that have a good amount of hits in them. Especially with playing all of MP last tour, it's not unreasonable for some fans to think that they'll have another tour where the big songs will be featured as opposed to the new album.

 

Now obviously these "fans" aren't aware that Rush isn't a nostalgia band like the ones you've mentioned. But most of the setlists they've done over the last decade of touring can easily lead a lot of people to believe that they are.

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I don't think anybody is going to argue with you that Maiden won't outsell Rush. They're more popular. Just about everywhere! I don't think changing the setlist or getting rid of the videos is gonna change that. Maiden just has more mass appeal. No big deal.
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QUOTE (J2112YYZ @ Oct 4 2012, 12:48 PM)
The OP brings up some good points about how concert goers get used to hearing the hits live because a lot of calssic rock bands do just that tour after tour. But I think Rush is a little guilty of letting fans think that they'll be playing the hits just as much as any other classic rock band.

The reason I say this is because of the setlists they've done for the VT, R30 and TM tours. Three out of the last four tours before the current one started have had setlists that have a good amount of hits in them. Especially with playing all of MP last tour, it's not unreasonable for some fans to think that they'll have another tour where the big songs will be featured as opposed to the new album.

Now obviously these "fans" aren't aware that Rush isn't a nostalgia band like the ones you've mentioned. But most of the setlists they've done over the last decade of touring can easily lead a lot of people to believe that they are.

Could very well be. I guess that MY particular problem is that I had higher expectations for this tour - as with many others I am suspecting.

 

I did not expect Xanadu, or even Jacobs Ladder - but at least two or more "concert classics" would have been nice.

 

I will let it be.

 

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QUOTE (Jomboni @ Oct 4 2012, 11:53 AM)
I don't think anybody is going to argue with you that Maiden won't outsell Rush.  They're more popular.  Just about everywhere!  I don't think changing the setlist or getting rid of the videos is gonna change that.  Maiden just has more mass appeal. No big deal.

Since Iron Maiden is my second favorite band i'll add in my two cents here.

 

Maiden tours the US far less than Rush does. Being a huge fan of both, I believe that the size of their fansbases in the US are equal. Maiden tours do a little better because they never do a second leg in North America anymore. They'll do one go around and that will be it for a year or two before we see them again. Not touring here as frequently as Rush does leads to fans having less opportunity to Maiden. So when they do come around the fans turnout in droves because they only get to see them once every couple years.

 

Rush on the other hand has done two legs for both the S&A and TMT. So, fans have more of a chance to see them. That's the reason their attedance might not be as good this tour as Maiden's North American summer tour was this year. Fans have had plenty of opportunities to see Rush over the last five years, so they may be inclined to skip this tour because they already saw them recently and since they always come back they'll catch them next time.

 

Maiden does their buisness smarter than Rush I think. They let the fans miss them for a year or two before they come back around. I know Rush has a great new album they need to support but they've done quite a bit of touring the last few years, which can have a bad effect on ticket sales if they play the same markets too often.

Edited by J2112YYZ
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