MarKo Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 I've been scouring some of the youtube vids looking at what Alex is doing on some of the songs.... On Middletown Dreams during the intro he does not seem to be playing all of the arpeggio sections that for me, really are why I love that song...a bit disappointing. That plucked high chord just before the lyrics come in seems to be triggered as is the long sustained note a few bars previous to that. It sounds just like the studio version. Perhaps it's just not possible to get the other accented chords going as well?? The performance of rest of the song is great. During Carnies and Headlong Flight it looks like he's using a guitar tuned to an E chord, which if that is the way they're recorded explains why those songs have a slightly "different" feel... During The Garden they also trigger the rhythm piano chords in the piano section. The triggered piano is playing long before Alex gets around the keys to play that nice little melody section. Geddy is standing there waiting to sing the lyrics....Could Ged not be playing (or even pretend to play) those rhythm chords on the piano while Alex does the other part? Ged was also not playing the keys intro to Camera Eye on the last tour. That kind of bummed me out at the Dublin show as I could see him just leaning on the keys and not playing at all... That part of the song is a really original use of keys and it would have been nice to see it done live. They've always used triggers live and it doesn't bother me that much as I'd rather they perform songs like Camera Eye and make compromises if necessary. As a musician, figuring out how Rush (particularly Alex) actually play their songs is a real challenge...... like a puzzle.... It's part of the buzz of a new album and figuring out the songs. When you wait to see how a particular piece is performed live and you find out that it can't be done (sometimes after spending hours trying to figure out if it's an overdub or not) can be a little exasperating... ....part of the challenge I suppose Of course there are some parts that blow you away live as you would never have dreamed they would do it "that way" or a solo was in that position or whatever.... I'm on the "love it" side of the live setlist debate and just glad that they're touring. Some of the drumming and bass playing off Power Windows is incredible and much underrated due to it being spun as a "keyboard phase" Still hoping for a Dublin date, but that seems a remote possibility at this stage. Anyone else spot other triggered parts yet or interesting trivia ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunder Bay Rush Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 Hi Ireland guy, I'm "just a drummer" so I don't understand much of the technical guitar stuff, but a friend of mine is a guitar player/Alex fan and he once told me Lifeson's live rig is quite complex. Lots of odd-ball tunings, effects, sequencers, all of it and more. I just take the easy way out by "hitting things with sticks." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClassicB Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 I agree. For Geddy, other than playing the bass, he is on auto pilot for most of the keyboards these days. It's too bad because this is another reason I like to watch the older 80's videos because they were not using nearly as many samples as they do now. They actually played note for note on most stuff. My biggest dissapointment in Geddy was when he retired the Moog Taurus pedals in favor of sampled Taurus. Sorry but these ears can tell the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod in Toronto Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pound of Obscure Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 QUOTE (MarKo @ Sep 22 2012, 07:00 AM) I'm on the "love it" side of the live setlist debate and just glad that they're touring. Some of the drumming and bass playing off Power Windows is incredible and much underrated due to it being spun as a "keyboard phase" What's the chance they record all the songs for the DVD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarPlyr01 Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 Geddy also needs to not fake the "lean not upon your own understanding" lines during Clockwork Angels. At least from the videos I saw from Manchester and Bristow it looked to me like he was clearly faking it. There are differences between Studio Geddy and Live Geddy. And its obvious in CwA when its played live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don'tMeetInBars Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 QUOTE (MarKo @ Sep 22 2012, 07:00 AM) During Carnies and Headlong Flight it looks like he's using a guitar tuned to an E chord, which if that is the way they're recorded explains why those songs have a slightly "different" feel... Wow good eye/ear, I checked it out you're totally right! It's interesting how they're triggering whole phrases, not just individual notes from the bass pedals. They can hit it once, it plays, then they're on about their business rather than being tied to the pedalboards. Looking at the sidestage YouTubes it's still amazing to me how they make the pedal 'dance' look so effortless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snaked Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 QUOTE (Don'tMeetInBars @ Sep 22 2012, 11:12 PM) Looking at the sidestage YouTubes it's still amazing to me how they make the pedal 'dance' look so effortless! I used to call it the "RUSH Ballet" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarKo Posted September 23, 2012 Author Share Posted September 23, 2012 QUOTE (Don'tMeetInBars @ Sep 23 2012, 03:12 AM)QUOTE (MarKo @ Sep 22 2012, 07:00 AM) During Carnies and Headlong Flight it looks like he's using a guitar tuned to an E chord, which if that is the way they're recorded explains why those songs have a slightly "different" feel... Wow good eye/ear, I checked it out you're totally right! It's interesting how they're triggering whole phrases, not just individual notes from the bass pedals. They can hit it once, it plays, then they're on about their business rather than being tied to the pedalboards. Looking at the sidestage YouTubes it's still amazing to me how they make the pedal 'dance' look so effortless! I'm not 100% on this but I think that all of the triggers are programmed for each song and they get loaded up in between numbers so that the pedals change for each song. Geddy mentioned in an interview once that sometimes the wrong programme gets loaded and samples for other songs come out.....and the fun begins. Other bands like U2 have samples triggered by MIDI so they don't have to manually trigger pedals. At least Rush play the samples "live" as such. I remember seeing one post on this forum by someone who had all the triggers worked out for each song and who triggered them.... Neil also triggers some samples apparently when the other two don't have time etc.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jomboni Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 QUOTE Geddy mentioned in an interview once that sometimes the wrong programme gets loaded and samples for other songs come out.....and the fun begins. I THINK this happened during the R30 recording of Roll The Bones. You can hear what sounds like the opening synth to Tom Sawyer play over and over through the song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Quixote Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 I've read on more than one occasion that Alex's guitars are all standard tuning with one or two exceptions for Drop D. The changes in his sound are with effects and pickup configurations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangster of Goats Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 QUOTE (ClassicB @ Sep 22 2012, 08:10 AM) I agree. For Geddy, other than playing the bass, he is on auto pilot for most of the keyboards these days. It's too bad because this is another reason I like to watch the older 80's videos because they were not using nearly as many samples as they do now. They actually played note for note on most stuff. My biggest dissapointment in Geddy was when he retired the Moog Taurus pedals in favor of sampled Taurus. Sorry but these ears can tell the difference. Agree 100%. I didn't catch the Time Machine tour, but when I saw youtube clips for the Camera Eye afterwards, I was a bit disappointed. C'mon Ged, what's next, hit one MIDI pedal and all of Subdivisions plays for you? I miss the older days (ugh can't believe I said that!) where Geddy had that massive Oberheim 8-voice on one side, and also the GuP-HYF period where he was surrounded by keyboard stands piled high with gear. Yum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish_matt Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 QUOTE (MarKo @ Sep 23 2012, 07:31 AM) QUOTE (Don'tMeetInBars @ Sep 23 2012, 03:12 AM)QUOTE (MarKo @ Sep 22 2012, 07:00 AM) During Carnies and Headlong Flight it looks like he's using a guitar tuned to an E chord, which if that is the way they're recorded explains why those songs have a slightly "different" feel... Wow good eye/ear, I checked it out you're totally right! It's interesting how they're triggering whole phrases, not just individual notes from the bass pedals. They can hit it once, it plays, then they're on about their business rather than being tied to the pedalboards. Looking at the sidestage YouTubes it's still amazing to me how they make the pedal 'dance' look so effortless! I'm not 100% on this but I think that all of the triggers are programmed for each song and they get loaded up in between numbers so that the pedals change for each song. Geddy mentioned in an interview once that sometimes the wrong programme gets loaded and samples for other songs come out.....and the fun begins. Other bands like U2 have samples triggered by MIDI so they don't have to manually trigger pedals. At least Rush play the samples "live" as such. I remember seeing one post on this forum by someone who had all the triggers worked out for each song and who triggered them.... Neil also triggers some samples apparently when the other two don't have time etc.... U2 don't use triggers anymore... they actually have a guy under the stage that plays all the keyboard parts. Bono thanked him at a show a few years ago and he was also shown in a trade magazine... pretty cramped looking setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtown Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 I never understood why Adam Clayton didnt trigger stuff with pedals. Its not like he's doing anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don'tMeetInBars Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 QUOTE (Don Quixote @ Sep 23 2012, 09:45 AM) I've read on more than one occasion that Alex's guitars are all standard tuning with one or two exceptions for Drop D. The changes in his sound are with effects and pickup configurations. Yes but check out the two new songs the OP referenced, the major chords are played with the one finger bar shape. It's an interesting sound, the tuning is very common for slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan2712 Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 What i wanna know is how Alex triggers Geddy-sounding backup vocals using a microphone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish_matt Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 all the backing vocal samples are triggered using their pedals. Sometimes the vocal is in-bedded with backing guitar and keyboard riffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dscrapre Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 QUOTE (GuitarPlyr01 @ Sep 22 2012, 02:13 PM) Geddy also needs to not fake the "lean not upon your own understanding" lines during Clockwork Angels. At least from the videos I saw from Manchester and Bristow it looked to me like he was clearly faking it. There are differences between Studio Geddy and Live Geddy. And its obvious in CwA when its played live. At the Chicago show it sounded like he was actually doing that part live, but they also had the recording playing behind him. I agree, I don't want to see any lip syncing. If they need to fly-in a vocal part, then just fly it in and don't try to act like it's being done live. We're smarter then that, we can tell the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snyder80 Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 QUOTE (ClassicB @ Sep 22 2012, 08:10 AM) I agree. For Geddy, other than playing the bass, he is on auto pilot for most of the keyboards these days. It's too bad because this is another reason I like to watch the older 80's videos because they were not using nearly as many samples as they do now. They actually played note for note on most stuff. My biggest dissapointment in Geddy was when he retired the Moog Taurus pedals in favor of sampled Taurus. Sorry but these ears can tell the difference. Listening to Rush as long as I've been, I can definitely hear the difference too. I still love them live but there is a difference. Personally, I don't believe it's laziness at all. Geddy just said in a recent interview that he'll sample out anything he can these days because he wants to be jamming on the bass as often as possible. You gotta respect that because it is his main instrument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemari77 Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 It's funny... I always knew the "Subdivisions" line was triggered , but I never knew or paid attention to who did it....I only always saw Alex step to the mic and mouth the lyrics along to the sample. There is a very clear, HD clip out there from the current tour where Alex clearly steps on the pedal to trigger the sample while he's mouthing the words into the mic. I mean, it was cool to see (for me)...his foot would lift up and as soon as it went down, you heard "Subdivisions". No big deal, but I got a kick out of seeing how it's been done all these years. And, I guess that's Alex's method... he doesn't mind lip syncing to it, if he is the one who is actually producing the sound via trigger or whatever. This isn't fascinating to most people, but for someone like me who went through a phase where I was studying and collecting Rush's synth era technology (including Akai samplers and Korg MPK MIDI pedals), these are cool little tidbits....One of my favorite things about Rush is how they incorporate tech into what they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarKo Posted September 30, 2012 Author Share Posted September 30, 2012 QUOTE (irish_matt @ Sep 24 2012, 02:26 AM)all the backing vocal samples are triggered using their pedals. Sometimes the vocal is in-bedded with backing guitar and keyboard riffs. Check out "The Wreckers" on the youtube video http://www.youtube.com/user/RTMorasonMD2 It looks and sounds like Alex is actually singing the baking vocals live !! Can't see any pedal triggers going on ..... Perhaps it's just certain parts he can't sing...perhaps the higher register harmonies... Really great video as well.... Still waiting for a good quality one of Middletown Dreams.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jomboni Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 He did just confirm in an interview that Headlong Flight and Carnies are tuned to an E chord like the original poster guessed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarKo Posted September 30, 2012 Author Share Posted September 30, 2012 QUOTE (Jomboni @ Sep 30 2012, 04:25 PM) He did just confirm in an interview that Headlong Flight and Carnies are tuned to an E chord like the original poster guessed. Any idea which interview that was in ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jomboni Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 I thought it was Guitar Player but I just skimmed it and I can't find it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jomboni Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Actually I think he said it in this video, but I don't feel like watching the whole thing again http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1itsBF2iRmA...player_embedded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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