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Clockwork Angels: The Novel Discussion


thizzellewashington
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I'm not against anyone enjoying something I do not care for but I wonder if the book would garner the same kind of positive reviews if it had no Rush connection. It doesn't even qualify as bad literature, it's just rubbish. I've read the first four chapters and I didn't know whether to laugh or cry!

 

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QUOTE (Tony R @ Oct 7 2012, 07:30 PM)
I'm not against anyone enjoying something I do not care for but I wonder if the book would garner the same kind of positive reviews if it had no Rush connection. It doesn't even qualify as bad literature, it's just rubbish. I've read the first four chapters and I didn't know whether to laugh or cry!

I understand what you're saying. I did enjoy reading it, but it was very much because of the connection with the album. If I wasn't a fan of the album I wouldn't have read it.

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QUOTE (Cstoliker @ Oct 8 2012, 10:24 PM)
I got it on iTunes (audiobook) for $12.00 it's Narrated by Neil Peart himself. I would highly recommend it.

Very good so far. A lot of previous Rush referaces worked in too.

As grey traces of zzzzzz

 

 

Peart's Own Cure For Insonnia - his voice.

 

 

 

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QUOTE (Tony R @ Oct 8 2012, 05:09 PM)
QUOTE (Cstoliker @ Oct 8 2012, 10:24 PM)
I got it on iTunes (audiobook) for $12.00 it's Narrated by Neil Peart himself. I would highly recommend it.

Very good so far. A lot of previous Rush referaces worked in too.

As grey traces of zzzzzz

 

 

Peart's Own Cure For Insonnia - his voice.

rofl3.gif rofl3.gif rofl3.gif

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I thought the best part in the whole book was when *SPOILER* the anarchist blows up the alchemy college. As I was reading it, the song just popped into my head, the 2nd chorus is happening when he is tinkering in the vault, As he's swiftly exiting the building he sings the (Oh, they tried to get me/they'll never forget me line), he walks through the street for about 10 seconds during that phased unison guitar and bass riff, then BOOM, the college blows up behind him (Hollywood style) right as that Tarus pedal kicks in and Alex launches into the solo. It would make a BADASS scene in a movie.
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I would have liked the ideas fleshed out a lot more, especially in the scenes after the trek to the Seven Cities of Gold. there really didn't seem to be much of a conflict in the story, and the ending seemed haphazardly put together shoehorning the lyrics and message of Wish them Well and the Garden into one chapter.

 

I'd like to see it transformed into a film or short TV series, but only if the story is reworked a little bit.

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QUOTE (Nate1647 @ Oct 8 2012, 09:43 PM)
I thought the best part in the whole book was when *SPOILER* the anarchist blows up the alchemy college. As I was reading it, the song just popped into my head, the 2nd chorus is happening when he is tinkering in the vault, As he's swiftly exiting the building he sings the (Oh, they tried to get me/they'll never forget me line), he walks through the street for about 10 seconds during that phased unison guitar and bass riff, then BOOM, the college blows up behind him (Hollywood style) right as that Tarus pedal kicks in and Alex launches into the solo. It would make a BADASS scene in a movie.

......that was fricking badass! The build up of getting into the college, climaxing with the explosions as he walks away undetected.......

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Agree with the general consensus that the book is bland. I kept picturing who could be cast in a movie version, but it kept coming back to me as unreal as The Hunger Games. I think all the CA theme marrow is in the music's bones.
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Agree with the general consensus that the book is bland. I kept picturing who could be cast in a movie version, but it kept coming back to me as unreal as The Hunger Games. I think all the CA theme marrow is in the music's bones.
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I got the audio book from the library, but I had no time to listen before it was due. I ripped it to my hard drive for later listening. Now the book has come in from the library. I'm reading along while Neil reads the book to me. It's a lot of fun and after all the discussion, build up, and comments pro or con I'm just letting the story happen. Not the best writing ever, but far from the worst.
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QUOTE (salges @ Oct 11 2012, 10:11 PM)
Agree with the general consensus that the book is bland.

Not surprising at all. Neil is not exactly the most exciting writer of prose. He's too rational and dispassionate when he writes a story.

 

Anderson is a simple hack, a 3rd-rate SF writer. new_thumbsdownsmileyanim.gif new_thumbsdownsmileyanim.gif

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I have a lot of thoughts here and won't get them all in but I want to answer or help fill in a bunch of questions people have asked about. I was at RushCon and heard the Kevin Anderson talk and others that were there might want to chime in on things I leave out. I also got to speak with him for a bit.

 

First, if you see them live you will notice all the blue coldfire powering the set, pretty awesome smile.gif

 

I waited to read the thread until now and can honestly understand a lot of the criticism. If you were looking for HG Wells this isn't it. It isn't a serious hard core sci-fi novel. Nor, is it a dystopian novel per se, as much as an "alternate world". I didn't think of Hunger Games, but thought while reading it as being a sort of "Big Fish" vibe with a touch of Animal Farm, and when talking about it possibly being a movie, Anderson mentioned the exact same thing (Big Fish type movie). It is definately more philosophical in tone than sci-fi while keeping it light and satirical which is true to Candide which was thick with it. The book was sent to the head of Universal studios who is a Rush fan, so who knows?

 

On the Rush references. My best friend and I always "Rushspeak" (or songtalk), and try to work lyrics and themes into conversations out of the blue and however well they flow and fit the conversation, the awesome part is that they will always come off cheezy. I can hear my wife groaning in the background as I type. Yes, a non-Rush fan will not notice them and perhaps think they are odd word and phrase choices but do fit in the story line. When asked about doing it during the talk, Kevin said that he asked if it was okay with Neil doing this, (It was Kevin's choice) and they both agreed they didn't want it to come off forced. Not sure that was completely successful, but if viewed with humor and satire, I think it's awesome. If you want serious, not so much.

 

Yes, he knew it would elicit some groans from the fans but hoped it came off as fun instead of hurting. Too many? I don't know, I really liked it but that's just me. In the brief time I talked with him about it, we both rattled off some Rushspeak into the conversation. The guy is a real fan, and as I told him, quite the master at it laugh.gif

 

The idea was obviously Neil's and he after spending two years discussing the concepts, Kevin powered through the novel in about 3 weeks. The songs were already written and he had the near finished drafts of them. For those thinking that was "rushed" this apparently is normal for him. He and Neil exchanged emails constantly through out the day and stayed in constant contact during the writing.

 

Though Neil had the songs written and all the characters and most of the concepts done at this point, Kevin had to tie it all together and make it into a book and I think that was a tad tricky. He mentioned he is more of a "world builder" and had to keep asking "why" Owen was doing something or things were happening to make it all cohesive. Kevin also was the one who pointed out to Neil that the main characters were describing "extreme freedom" and "extreme control".

 

I couldn't help but think of the parallels with Neil's life, such as the loss of "Pangloss" in comparison to "Freddie Gruber" but as Kevin pointed out during the talk, much of it was from him such as Halo Effect and also, Kevin was from a small town in Wisconson who kept "dreaming big" about being a writer, and "getting out of town". So, he and Neil share many things like that in common. I also want to point out that though many people have been disparaging the guy, he has sold some 23 million books an dhas his own fan base aside from Rush fans.

 

He also has a degree in Astronomy and Physics, with a minor in Russian Lit. But he called Neil the smart guy, "I mean way smarter than me" which was funny.

 

As for the "moral of the story" if you will, I think most of us discerned that from the album before reading the book so there isn't many surprises per se or new grand revelations. But that's okay. I wonder how I would view it if I had read the book first and heard the album later. I think many would be saying the album compliments the book nicely, instead of the opposite.

 

With that said, I love the storylines (Seven Cites, Halo Effect, Carnies) and moral of the story, which I take as neither extreme is good, but that we all have to find our own way in life working between those guidelines and pulling forces. I think many of the morals and ideas will stick with me and others. How often have you considered the concept of "Wish them Well" and walking away from negative influences. I know I find it tough. In a normal good guy/bad guy work such as this the hero exacts revenge, or gets justice from their demise, but they chose to let Owen simply "walk away" which is unlike any novel I've read. Are you accepting that you can't change the world, that you can only blow the way the wind blows? Is focusing on your own world selfish or altruistic? Ahh, many questions to think about.

 

 

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Forgot the best part and what many were asking about as far as a sequel.

 

While Neil and Kevin discussed the "alternate world" concepts Neil came up with the lady in the bookstore idea. I mean, they're both authors, and it's "books" which was pretty obvious. But the alternate universe idea is the prevailing concept for a sequel, or a spin-off novel starting with the bookstore lady.

 

I enjoyed playing around with the alternate world theory (in my mind) and like it. Aside from the obvious bubble universe concept that makes it somewhat plausible, there is also the idea that our world is only limited by our imagination and that we can create our own alternate world in real life by making changes.

 

 

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Neil finished reading it to me as I followed along in the book the other day. I think that if you take it for what it is then it is nice enough. It's entertainment and isn't likely to win any literature awards, but for Rush fans it can be fun if you suspend the cynical part of your brain and just enjoy the story.

 

I think it would make a great movie if the right director gets involved. I would be pretty excited about Rush doing instrumental versions of the Clockwork Angels songs for the soundtrack with the original version of The Garden playing over the credits.

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QUOTE (drbirdsong @ Oct 17 2012, 12:06 PM)
Neil finished reading it to me as I followed along in the book the other day. I think that if you take it for what it is then it is nice enough. It's entertainment and isn't likely to win any literature awards, but for Rush fans it can be fun if you suspend the cynical part of your brain and just enjoy the story.

I think it would make a great movie if the right director gets involved. I would be pretty excited about Rush doing instrumental versions of the Clockwork Angels songs for the soundtrack with the original version of The Garden playing over the credits.

I listened to it for a few hours on the trip to Toronto, and then finished the book during the week.

 

It is funny though because I was telling a friend about it and read him the last paragraph on I think page 210 which alone held 4 Rush references, laugh.gif

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If the book disappointed you, I recommend reading Candide and then listening to the album...repeat as necessary

 

The themes in the song lyrics are explored very well in Candide, but (to me, at least) they fit the songs well. I listened to the album before I read Candide, and reading it made the album just a bit more exciting than it already was.

 

Honestly, there's no need for there to be a book in the first place. It's Candide with some events slightly altered (shipwreck because of a storm becomes a shipwreck because of islanders with a lighthouse, meeting the critic and prostitutes in Europe becomes the carnival sequence, getting lost in the desert and finding el dorado becomes...getting lost in the desert and finding el dorado, settling in the garden etc). It would almost be more artistically credible to release the album with a copy of Candide in it (or a coupon?). Not to dump on Neil, though - it's good to try new things, and this definitely introduced me to one of my favourite pieces of literature.

Edited by internetexplorer
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