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New Peart Interview


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QUOTE (eshine @ Aug 15 2012, 11:26 AM)
I'll just say it again.

The members of Rush are liberals. They don't care if some of their fans are offended by their veiws. Neil, in particular, does not censor himself to avoid hurting the feelings of his staunchly conservative, republican Christian fanbase.

He doesn't care if you are a Republican.

Nor should he.

The Republican platform in the U.S. is rife with serious issues - hypocrisy being one of the biggest.

You want "limited government and regulation", yet you want to literally controll the way people live their private lives, all in the name of Jesus.

it's a joke, and Neil has your number - thus the "outcry" here.

You are very angry and bitter.

 

I'm sorry.

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QUOTE (LedRush @ Aug 15 2012, 11:34 AM)
"Could you please provide me examples that demonstrate the veracity of your statement? (i.e., Undisputed teaching of Jesus that conflict with undisputed views of republicans)."

Jesus Christ was a man of charity and compassion. Republicans of 2012 are "every man for himself"

 

Jesus Christ abhored violence. Republicans abhore abortion, but love guns, war and the death penalty.

 

Jesus Christ, in both the new and old testament, never once mentions homosexuality.

 

Republicans actively infringe upon the rights and private lives of gay people and use the teachings of Christ as the basis of their platform.

 

Get the picture?

 

Neil made a comment that is obviously controversial - but nevertheless truthful.

 

Sorry.

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QUOTE (eshine @ Aug 15 2012, 11:54 AM)
QUOTE (LedRush @ Aug 15 2012, 11:34 AM)
"Could you please provide me examples that demonstrate the veracity of your statement? (i.e., Undisputed teaching of Jesus that conflict with undisputed views of republicans)."

 

 

Republicans actively infringe upon the rights and private lives of gay people and use the teachings of Christ as the basis of their platform.

 

i'm not a republican but i honestly think inside obama is against gay marriage but tells the world he's for gay marriage in order to get the vote and the donations rolling in. politicians will say and do anything to save their own ass and keep the money rolling in.

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QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Aug 15 2012, 12:06 PM)
QUOTE (eshine @ Aug 15 2012, 11:54 AM)
QUOTE (LedRush @ Aug 15 2012, 11:34 AM)
"Could you please provide me examples that demonstrate the veracity of your statement? (i.e., Undisputed teaching of Jesus that conflict with undisputed views of republicans)."

 

 

Republicans actively infringe upon the rights and private lives of gay people and use the teachings of Christ as the basis of their platform.

 

i'm not a republican but i honestly think inside obama is against gay marriage but tells the world he's for gay marriage in order to get the vote and the donations rolling in. politicians will say and do anything to save their own ass and keep the money rolling in.

During the 2008 election Obama was against gay marriage and nobody on the left had a problem with that but they protested Chick-Fil-A. Selective outrage once again. Obama recently flip-flopped on the issue because he is desperate to get votes in the upcoming election.

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Jesus didn't saying anything to the Jews he was talking to about homosexuality because it was against their religious beliefs already. Homosexuality having been a large part of Sodom and Gomorrhah was one of the reasons those cities were destroyed. And Christ references those cities in the book of Matthew because they fell outside of God's commandments and that any city who turns away from the Gospel outright would suffer a similar fate.
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QUOTE (GeminiRising79 @ Aug 15 2012, 12:37 PM)
QUOTE (Lerxster @ Aug 15 2012, 11:36 AM)

Neil's obviously quite intellegent.

More like well-read and articulate. I don't consider him to be especially intelligent.

Of course you don't. You're a troll. doh.gif

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"Jesus Christ was a man of charity and compassion. Republicans of 2012 are "every man for himself"

 

Jesus Christ abhored violence. Republicans abhore abortion, but love guns, war and the death penalty.

 

Jesus Christ, in both the new and old testament, never once mentions homosexuality.

 

Republicans actively infringe upon the rights and private lives of gay people and use the teachings of Christ as the basis of their platform.

 

Get the picture?

 

Neil made a comment that is obviously controversial - but nevertheless truthful.

 

Sorry. "

 

1. JC was a man of charity and compassion. That is probably an uncontroversial view of the man. However, Republicans do not believe in "every man for himself". They believe that the role the government plays in social safety nets should be more limited than it is. This has no bearing on whether republicans egange in charity and/or compassion. In fact, if I remember correctly, polls indicate that republicans across all income levels are more likely to donate both time and money to charities than democrats.

 

2. "Jesus Christ abhored violence." Did he? He took a whip into the temples and beat the snot out of the money lenders. Does that mean that he didn't practice what he preached, or that some form of violence can be justified?

 

3. "Republicans abhore abortion, but love guns, war and the death penalty." This is untrue. Some republicans abhor abortion, some abhor it but believe it should be legal, some abhor it but believe it is not a constitutionally protected right, some favor it but don't believe it is a constitutionally protected right, some favor it as law but not as a practice, some favor it as both law and practice.

 

Some republicans love guns, some hate guns but believe the right to bear them is constitutionally protected, some like them but believe that greater restrictions could be placed on them, among other opinions.

 

Republicans have traditionally been isolationist regarding involvement in foreign wars (unlike democrats). While admittedly more hawkish in the last 30 years, it's obviously untrue to say that all republicans love war.

 

Ditto the death penalty. Many republicans are opposed to it.

 

4. "Jesus Christ, in both the new and old testament, never once mentions homosexuality." Perhaps. Perhaps his silence on the issues means he was in favor of marriage for homosexuals. But seeing as he was a jewish religious leader looking to reform the views of Jews, if he disagreed with the prevailing view of the church on the subject, it would seem he should have mentioned it. Also, the practice of accepting civil and religious unions between homosexuals in western culture is a very modern concept, so it seems tenuous at best to suggest JC supported it.

 

5. "Republicans actively infringe upon the rights and private lives of gay people and use the teachings of Christ as the basis of their platform." Some republicans advocate for laws against gay marriage, while others openly support it. Some oppose it on religous grounds (not necessarily on the teachings of JC), some oppose it on civil grounds. Some believe it is not a constitutionally protected right and should be decided by individual states.

 

Neil's comments are demonstrably false because they are overbroad and make far too many assumptions. Your statements, while more precise, are equally incorrect and for the same reasons.

 

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QUOTE (substancewithoutstyle @ Aug 15 2012, 10:05 AM)
This thread went into the ditch a long time ago.

It's time to turn off the engine and quit spinning the wheels.

You're not getting anywhere, folks.

This is the main reason I left SOCN years ago. Talking, and especially arguing about political (and religious for that matter) issues goes nowhere. Almost no one will ever change their fundamental beliefs on anything, and usually it just turns into heated discussions that engender violent disagreements, bitterness, disappointment and despair. There are far more effective ways to create change in the world than messily arguing issues with people who see things differently than you do.

 

And that's really why it bugs me when Neil makes these kinds of comments - I just don't see anything particularly positive coming out of divisive comments that insult groups of people, even when I agree wish said divisive comments.

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QUOTE (LedRush @ Aug 15 2012, 12:50 PM)
"Jesus Christ was a man of charity and compassion. Republicans of 2012 are "every man for himself"

Jesus Christ abhored violence. Republicans abhore abortion, but love guns, war and the death penalty.

Jesus Christ, in both the new and old testament, never once mentions homosexuality.

Republicans actively infringe upon the rights and private lives of gay people and use the teachings of Christ as the basis of their platform.

Get the picture?

Neil made a comment that is obviously controversial - but nevertheless truthful.

Sorry. "

1. JC was a man of charity and compassion. That is probably an uncontroversial view of the man. However, Republicans do not believe in "every man for himself". They believe that the role the government plays in social safety nets should be more limited than it is. This has no bearing on whether republicans egange in charity and/or compassion. In fact, if I remember correctly, polls indicate that republicans across all income levels are more likely to donate both time and money to charities than democrats.

2. "Jesus Christ abhored violence." Did he? He took a whip into the temples and beat the snot out of the money lenders. Does that mean that he didn't practice what he preached, or that some form of violence can be justified?

3. "Republicans abhore abortion, but love guns, war and the death penalty." This is untrue. Some republicans abhor abortion, some abhor it but believe it should be legal, some abhor it but believe it is not a constitutionally protected right, some favor it but don't believe it is a constitutionally protected right, some favor it as law but not as a practice, some favor it as both law and practice.

Some republicans love guns, some hate guns but believe the right to bear them is constitutionally protected, some like them but believe that greater restrictions could be placed on them, among other opinions.

Republicans have traditionally been isolationist regarding involvement in foreign wars (unlike democrats). While admittedly more hawkish in the last 30 years, it's obviously untrue to say that all republicans love war.

Ditto the death penalty. Many republicans are opposed to it.

4. "Jesus Christ, in both the new and old testament, never once mentions homosexuality." Perhaps. Perhaps his silence on the issues means he was in favor of marriage for homosexuals. But seeing as he was a jewish religious leader looking to reform the views of Jews, if he disagreed with the prevailing view of the church on the subject, it would seem he should have mentioned it. Also, the practice of accepting civil and religious unions between homosexuals in western culture is a very modern concept, so it seems tenuous at best to suggest JC supported it.

5. "Republicans actively infringe upon the rights and private lives of gay people and use the teachings of Christ as the basis of their platform." Some republicans advocate for laws against gay marriage, while others openly support it. Some oppose it on religous grounds (not necessarily on the teachings of JC), some oppose it on civil grounds. Some believe it is not a constitutionally protected right and should be decided by individual states.

Neil's comments are demonstrably false because they are overbroad and make far too many assumptions. Your statements, while more precise, are equally incorrect and for the same reasons.

Absolutely nothing you just said successfully counters any of my points or even slightly chips away at Neils squirm inducing original comment.

 

Bottom line is there is much truth to what Neil said, and sometimes the truth hurts.

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QUOTE (LedRush @ Aug 15 2012, 10:50 AM)
"Jesus Christ was a man of charity and compassion. Republicans of 2012 are "every man for himself"

Jesus Christ abhored violence. Republicans abhore abortion, but love guns, war and the death penalty.

Jesus Christ, in both the new and old testament, never once mentions homosexuality.

Republicans actively infringe upon the rights and private lives of gay people and use the teachings of Christ as the basis of their platform.

Get the picture?

Neil made a comment that is obviously controversial - but nevertheless truthful.

Sorry. "

1. JC was a man of charity and compassion. That is probably an uncontroversial view of the man. However, Republicans do not believe in "every man for himself". They believe that the role the government plays in social safety nets should be more limited than it is. This has no bearing on whether republicans egange in charity and/or compassion. In fact, if I remember correctly, polls indicate that republicans across all income levels are more likely to donate both time and money to charities than democrats.

2. "Jesus Christ abhored violence." Did he? He took a whip into the temples and beat the snot out of the money lenders. Does that mean that he didn't practice what he preached, or that some form of violence can be justified?

3. "Republicans abhore abortion, but love guns, war and the death penalty." This is untrue. Some republicans abhor abortion, some abhor it but believe it should be legal, some abhor it but believe it is not a constitutionally protected right, some favor it but don't believe it is a constitutionally protected right, some favor it as law but not as a practice, some favor it as both law and practice.

Some republicans love guns, some hate guns but believe the right to bear them is constitutionally protected, some like them but believe that greater restrictions could be placed on them, among other opinions.

Republicans have traditionally been isolationist regarding involvement in foreign wars (unlike democrats). While admittedly more hawkish in the last 30 years, it's obviously untrue to say that all republicans love war.

Ditto the death penalty. Many republicans are opposed to it.

4. "Jesus Christ, in both the new and old testament, never once mentions homosexuality." Perhaps. Perhaps his silence on the issues means he was in favor of marriage for homosexuals. But seeing as he was a jewish religious leader looking to reform the views of Jews, if he disagreed with the prevailing view of the church on the subject, it would seem he should have mentioned it. Also, the practice of accepting civil and religious unions between homosexuals in western culture is a very modern concept, so it seems tenuous at best to suggest JC supported it.

5. "Republicans actively infringe upon the rights and private lives of gay people and use the teachings of Christ as the basis of their platform." Some republicans advocate for laws against gay marriage, while others openly support it. Some oppose it on religous grounds (not necessarily on the teachings of JC), some oppose it on civil grounds. Some believe it is not a constitutionally protected right and should be decided by individual states.

Neil's comments are demonstrably false because they are overbroad and make far too many assumptions. Your statements, while more precise, are equally incorrect and for the same reasons.

While I don't agree with everything you just said, you do effectively make the argument against the kind of sweeping generalizations that Neil was making, and show why those kind of comments can be and are taken in an insulting manner. You just can't make blanket statements about huge groups of people and expect them to apply when people are a lot more intricate and complex than all that.

 

You don't create positive change by insulting people's beliefs. That will just get them angry at you and the endless cycle of polarization is perpetuated. There are far better ways to go about these things.

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QUOTE (TheBluePhoenix @ Aug 15 2012, 12:38 PM)
QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Aug 15 2012, 12:06 PM)
QUOTE (eshine @ Aug 15 2012, 11:54 AM)
QUOTE (LedRush @ Aug 15 2012, 11:34 AM)
"Could you please provide me examples that demonstrate the veracity of your statement? (i.e., Undisputed teaching of Jesus that conflict with undisputed views of republicans)."

 

 

Republicans actively infringe upon the rights and private lives of gay people and use the teachings of Christ as the basis of their platform.

 

i'm not a republican but i honestly think inside obama is against gay marriage but tells the world he's for gay marriage in order to get the vote and the donations rolling in. politicians will say and do anything to save their own ass and keep the money rolling in.

 

Chick-Fil-A.

did you have to bring food into this? tongue.gif mmm spicy chick fil a.

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QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Aug 15 2012, 02:21 PM)
QUOTE (TheBluePhoenix @ Aug 15 2012, 12:38 PM)
QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Aug 15 2012, 12:06 PM)
QUOTE (eshine @ Aug 15 2012, 11:54 AM)
QUOTE (LedRush @ Aug 15 2012, 11:34 AM)
"Could you please provide me examples that demonstrate the veracity of your statement? (i.e., Undisputed teaching of Jesus that conflict with undisputed views of republicans)."

 

 

Republicans actively infringe upon the rights and private lives of gay people and use the teachings of Christ as the basis of their platform.

 

i'm not a republican but i honestly think inside obama is against gay marriage but tells the world he's for gay marriage in order to get the vote and the donations rolling in. politicians will say and do anything to save their own ass and keep the money rolling in.

 

Chick-Fil-A.

did you have to bring food into this? tongue.gif mmm spicy chick fil a.

does sound good doesn't it? I would go to one but our liberal mayor doesn't believe in private enterprise.

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@ Ledrush and an enemy without;-thanks for clarifying the first amendment bit. However, it doesn't fundamentally alter the fact that many of the posts on this thread are about closing down any meaningful discussion of Peart's point of view or negating what he stated simple because they either disagree, it doesn't fit with their world view, or because they find it offensive.

For what it's worth I believe there should be limits on free speech where extremism and/or discrimination are expressed.

And as a left leaning atheist republican (don't believe in the monarchy, btw) I see exactly where Peart is coming from. It's appalling that racism, and homophobia can be used as forms of discrimination and oppression because of someone elses religious belief systems. It's sickening that George W executed children as governor of Texas. I am completely mystified that middle age men (who will never have to face the responsibility of bringing up a child unsupported by it's father) want to have control over womens reproductive systems by denying them the right to abortion.

Tell, me this when did someone ever get murdered by another human being in the name of NO God? When does anyone die by being treated with respect and compassion?

And as for the old left/right political dichotomy- we're all f*cked. They only care about corporate interests mainly these days.

 

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QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Aug 15 2012, 01:22 PM)
QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Aug 15 2012, 02:21 PM)
QUOTE (TheBluePhoenix @ Aug 15 2012, 12:38 PM)
QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Aug 15 2012, 12:06 PM)
QUOTE (eshine @ Aug 15 2012, 11:54 AM)
QUOTE (LedRush @ Aug 15 2012, 11:34 AM)
"Could you please provide me examples that demonstrate the veracity of your statement? (i.e., Undisputed teaching of Jesus that conflict with undisputed views of republicans)."

 

 

Republicans actively infringe upon the rights and private lives of gay people and use the teachings of Christ as the basis of their platform.

 

i'm not a republican but i honestly think inside obama is against gay marriage but tells the world he's for gay marriage in order to get the vote and the donations rolling in. politicians will say and do anything to save their own ass and keep the money rolling in.

 

Chick-Fil-A.

did you have to bring food into this? tongue.gif mmm spicy chick fil a.

does sound good doesn't it? I would go to one but our liberal mayor doesn't believe in private enterprise.

not sure where you're at but i never knew they had one in manhattan. i'll be going there for lunch break tomorrow. trink36.gif

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