condemned2bfree Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 (edited) As some may know here alchemy and its history are of interest to me. Its very clear that Clockwork angels has alchemy as its theme by way of the glyph's and themes. Its my interpretation that the watchmaker has gained the 'philosophers stone'. In the garden its said 'the watchmaker has time up his sleeve' suggesting he has gained immortality,as for mere mortals 'hours slip away' The philosophers stone in real alchemy history, offered the elixir of life, immortality. Mortal man attaining godhood if you will...for those who could crack it. It involved mixing base metals to form precious metals such as gold. There may be gold on the C.A. clock if memory serves. There have been many throughout history who tried to find the philosophers stone, john dee u.k. in 16th bohemia is one for example. Did the watchmaker/pedlar uncover that which many have sought through the ages - Mortal man attaining godhood over mere mortals through alchemy, finding the holy grail 'the philosophers stone? imo C.A. has a wealth of depth in the story line....its incredible, an album to keep returning to for sure. edit; here's john dees glyph http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/1971/deehieroglyph.gif Uploaded with ImageShack.us Edited July 20, 2012 by condemned2bfree 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigershark2112 Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 I really liked this post, as I'm deeply involved with the story of CA. This is the first time in a while I've actually learned something from a forum post rather than just reading some bonehead's opinion on what they don't like! Very intriguing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombstone Mountain Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 QUOTE (condemned2bfree @ Jul 20 2012, 01:26 AM) As some may know here alchemy and its history are of interest to me. Its very clear that Clockwork angels has alchemy as its theme by way of the glyph's and themes. Its my interpretation that the watchmaker has gained the 'philosophers stone'. In the garden its said 'the watchmaker has time up his sleeve' suggesting he has gained immortality,as for mere mortals 'hours slip away' The philosophers stone in real alchemy history, offered the elixir of life, immortality. Mortal man attaining godhood if you will...for those who could crack it. It involved mixing base metals to form precious metals such as gold. There may be gold on the C.A. clock if memory serves. There have been many throughout history who tried to find the philosophers stone, john dee u.k. in 16th bohemia is one for example. Did the watchmaker/pedlar uncover that which many have sought through the ages - Mortal man attaining godhood over mere mortals through alchemy, finding the holy grail 'the philosophers stone? imo C.A. has a wealth of depth in the story line....its incredible, an album to keep returning to for sure. edit; here's john dees glyph http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/1971/deehieroglyph.gif Uploaded with ImageShack.us Sir...are you an alchemically balanced apothocarian??? Lots of great things to ponder in this post. thanks...gonna have roll this one around a bit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
condemned2bfree Posted July 21, 2012 Author Share Posted July 21, 2012 QUOTE (Tombstone Mountain @ Jul 20 2012, 06:48 PM) QUOTE (condemned2bfree @ Jul 20 2012, 01:26 AM) As some may know here alchemy and its history are of interest to me. Its very clear that Clockwork angels has alchemy as its theme by way of the glyph's and themes. Its my interpretation that the watchmaker has gained the 'philosophers stone'. In the garden its said 'the watchmaker has time up his sleeve' suggesting he has gained immortality,as for mere mortals 'hours slip away' The philosophers stone in real alchemy history, offered the elixir of life, immortality. Mortal man attaining godhood if you will...for those who could crack it. It involved mixing base metals to form precious metals such as gold. There may be gold on the C.A. clock if memory serves. There have been many throughout history who tried to find the philosophers stone, john dee u.k. in 16th bohemia is one for example. Did the watchmaker/pedlar uncover that which many have sought through the ages - Mortal man attaining godhood over mere mortals through alchemy, finding the holy grail 'the philosophers stone? imo C.A. has a wealth of depth in the story line....its incredible, an album to keep returning to for sure. edit; here's john dees glyph http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/1971/deehieroglyph.gif Uploaded with ImageShack.us Sir...are you an alchemically balanced apothocarian??? Lots of great things to ponder in this post. thanks...gonna have roll this one around a bit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
condemned2bfree Posted July 21, 2012 Author Share Posted July 21, 2012 QUOTE (Tigershark2112 @ Jul 20 2012, 04:40 PM) I really liked this post, as I'm deeply involved with the story of CA. This is the first time in a while I've actually learned something from a forum post rather than just reading some bonehead's opinion on what they don't like! Very intriguing! its great on here to read peoples creativity, ideas and thoughts on rush topics, discussing them openly. All too often its smart ass one upmanship, trying to get one over, on some one else. its a blood bath on here sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CygnusGal Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 QUOTE (condemned2bfree @ Jul 21 2012, 12:00 AM)QUOTE (Tigershark2112 @ Jul 20 2012, 04:40 PM) I really liked this post, as I'm deeply involved with the story of CA. This is the first time in a while I've actually learned something from a forum post rather than just reading some bonehead's opinion on what they don't like! Very intriguing! its great on here to read peoples creativity, ideas and thoughts on rush topics, discussing them openly. All too often its smart ass one upmanship, trying to get one over, on some one else. its a blood bath on here sometimes. Ditto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBob Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clearingsky Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Alchemy, Alchemists, Alchemism..........It's all an unknown topic for me personally. I like the idea and i love the story as it is. Any ties to religion at all? There certainly are parallels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
condemned2bfree Posted July 25, 2012 Author Share Posted July 25, 2012 QUOTE (clearingsky @ Jul 25 2012, 02:57 AM) Alchemy, Alchemists, Alchemism..........It's all an unknown topic for me personally. I like the idea and i love the story as it is. Any ties to religion at all? There certainly are parallels. Whats your take on the watchmaker/pedlar, having time up his sleeve? There's an interesting parallel with religion and alchemy. This being the 'philosophers stone' through the 'magnus opus' was supposed to replicate the blood of Christ, that fell on wood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Omega Concern Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Very odd to see that glyph here as I just saw it for the first time last night. It is used in the book "The Charlemagne Pursuit" by Steve Berry. Still reading so not sure of it's meaning in the book. I will follow up if it has any relevance to this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clearingsky Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 QUOTE (condemned2bfree @ Jul 25 2012, 01:58 AM) QUOTE (clearingsky @ Jul 25 2012, 02:57 AM) Alchemy, Alchemists, Alchemism..........It's all an unknown topic for me personally. I like the idea and i love the story as it is. Any ties to religion at all? There certainly are parallels. Whats your take on the watchmaker/pedlar, having time up his sleeve? There's an interesting parallel with religion and alchemy. This being the 'philosophers stone' through the 'magnus opus' was supposed to replicate the blood of Christ, that fell on wood. That's why I posted here. I don't know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
condemned2bfree Posted July 26, 2012 Author Share Posted July 26, 2012 QUOTE (The Omega Concern @ Jul 26 2012, 02:53 AM) Very odd to see that glyph here as I just saw it for the first time last night. It is used in the book "The Charlemagne Pursuit" by Steve Berry. Still reading so not sure of it's meaning in the book. I will follow up if it has any relevance to this discussion. What a coincidence. In what context was this glyph used in the book? Someone pointed out in another post, this glyph(John dees) is an elaboration on the standard 'messenger' glyph, the one at 3 o'clock on Rush's clockwork angels clock. Messenger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
condemned2bfree Posted July 26, 2012 Author Share Posted July 26, 2012 QUOTE (clearingsky @ Jul 26 2012, 03:48 AM) QUOTE (condemned2bfree @ Jul 25 2012, 01:58 AM) QUOTE (clearingsky @ Jul 25 2012, 02:57 AM) Alchemy, Alchemists, Alchemism..........It's all an unknown topic for me personally. I like the idea and i love the story as it is. Any ties to religion at all? There certainly are parallels. Whats your take on the watchmaker/pedlar, having time up his sleeve? There's an interesting parallel with religion and alchemy. This being the 'philosophers stone' through the 'magnus opus' was supposed to replicate the blood of Christ, that fell on wood. That's why I posted here. I don't know! Racked my brain. In the garden song, it says the watchmaker/pedlar mortal man, has 'time up his sleeve' .Suggesting he has gained immortality, or at least longevity. How could mortal man have time up his sleeve, while for mortals 'the hours tick away?' Alchemy as the theme of the story, seems to hold the answer for the pedlars extended time. Mr peart has cleverly interwoven religious connotations into the story line. This is my take, all albums being open to personnel interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombstone Mountain Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 QUOTE (condemned2bfree @ Jul 20 2012, 01:26 AM) Did the watchmaker/pedlar uncover that which many have sought through the ages - Mortal man attaining godhood over mere mortals through alchemy, finding the holy grail 'the philosophers stone? edit; here's john dees glyph http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/1971/deehieroglyph.gif Uploaded with ImageShack.us This must be the answer. What books do you suggest that I may be brought up to speed??? Very intriuged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CygnusGal Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 QUOTE (condemned2bfree @ Jul 20 2012, 02:26 AM)As some may know here alchemy and its history are of interest to me. Its very clear that Clockwork angels has alchemy as its theme by way of the glyph's and themes. Its my interpretation that the watchmaker has gained the 'philosophers stone'. In the garden its said 'the watchmaker has time up his sleeve' suggesting he has gained immortality,as for mere mortals 'hours slip away' The philosophers stone in real alchemy history, offered the elixir of life, immortality. Mortal man attaining godhood if you will...for those who could crack it. It involved mixing base metals to form precious metals such as gold. There may be gold on the C.A. clock if memory serves. There have been many throughout history who tried to find the philosophers stone, john dee u.k. in 16th bohemia is one for example. Did the watchmaker/pedlar uncover that which many have sought through the ages - Mortal man attaining godhood over mere mortals through alchemy, finding the holy grail 'the philosophers stone? imo C.A. has a wealth of depth in the story line....its incredible, an album to keep returning to for sure. edit; here's john dees glyph http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/1971/deehieroglyph.gif Uploaded with ImageShack.us Immortality. I recall Coleridge: QUOTE In Xanadu did Kubla Khan a stately pleasure dome decreeA recurring theme for Rush as well. The pleasure dome was a place of immortality (honey dew and milk of paradise). A mad immortal man... I did some reading, having no knowledge of alchemy, regarding symbols and alchemy. CA draws from a variety of sources, it would seem. Some of the interesting things I noted from the alchemy section of my reading:QUOTE Because of fear of persecution, alchemists developed a complex vocabulary of symbols to convey their knowledge. This diagram shows what an alchemist must do to arrive at the Philosopher's Stone, the key to immortality. The alchemist brings together all of the vital elements around him - water and fire, earth and air.The diagram shown was similar to the face of the platform of Caravan artwork in the CA album (sun and moon, four elements, etc.). QUOTE The Seal of Solomon. ...The seal, therefore, represents the union of the four elements in the quest for the Philosopher's Stone....Alchemists believed all matter was made up of earth, fire, water and air. The symbol for water flows down like water, the symbol for fire rises up like flames. Sulfur and mercury are often paired together as masculine and feminine symbols respectively. The sun was the symbol of gold; the moon of silver. Water is a downward pointing triangle, fire an upward pointing triangle. The two combined form the Seal of Solomon (what we know as the Star of David). The Sun looks like the "Seven Cities of Gold" symbol, mercury looks like the Pedlar and sulfur resembles Headlong Flight's symbol (to my non-alchemical eye). Interesting stuff. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gedneil Alpeart Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 QUOTE (condemned2bfree @ Jul 20 2012, 11:00 PM) QUOTE (Tigershark2112 @ Jul 20 2012, 04:40 PM) I really liked this post, as I'm deeply involved with the story of CA. This is the first time in a while I've actually learned something from a forum post rather than just reading some bonehead's opinion on what they don't like! Very intriguing! its great on here to read peoples creativity, ideas and thoughts on rush topics, discussing them openly. All too often its smart ass one upmanship, trying to get one over, on some one else. its a blood bath on here sometimes. Too true....i've sucked into that bs before and I hate it. Kudos to tge OP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
condemned2bfree Posted July 29, 2012 Author Share Posted July 29, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CygnusGal Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 QUOTE (condemned2bfree @ Jul 29 2012, 05:21 AM)Where did you get your quotes? Browsing a friend's book: ISBN 0-7607-6232-5 I took pictures of the text which I transcribed for my quotes. Mentions of the phoenix and ties to Egypt were also in the alchemy parts. They didn't appear to be relevant to CA though, so I didn't quote them. Also, I read about the number 3 (for obvious reasons) and spirals (as on the cover of CA). They have historic and religious significance. The CA artwork is quite interesting and complex. I wouldn't expect less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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