Where does Counterparts rank among Rush's albums?

[HomesickAlien]

QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Jul 16 2012, 07:50 PM)

QUOTE (WCFIELDS @ Jul 16 2012, 07:46 PM) QUOTE (GeminiRising79 @ Jul 16 2012, 06:44 PM) The first really stinking album, imo. true actually.....the start of a sharp decline... presto was certainly nothing to brag about. Presto is where they started to roll down the hill, but they fell off the cliff with RTB.

[HomesickAlien]

QUOTE (substancewithoutstyle @ Jul 16 2012, 07:54 PM)

QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Jul 16 2012, 07:50 PM) QUOTE (WCFIELDS @ Jul 16 2012, 07:46 PM) QUOTE (GeminiRising79 @ Jul 16 2012, 06:44 PM) The first really stinking album, imo. true actually.....the start of a sharp decline... presto was certainly nothing to brag about. Presto is where they started to roll down the hill, but they fell off the cliff with RTB. ...and landed on a skeleton with a purple mohawk.

[WCFIELDS]

QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Jul 16 2012, 06:50 PM)

QUOTE (WCFIELDS @ Jul 16 2012, 07:46 PM) QUOTE (GeminiRising79 @ Jul 16 2012, 06:44 PM) The first really stinking album, imo. true actually.....the start of a sharp decline... presto was certainly nothing to brag about. No, it wasn't....CP is worse though...

[Ancient Ways]

it was natural for them to be influenced by modern music at the time but I think they made too strenuous an effort to adopt "grunge-y" stylings on this album. Trying to think of a bigger gap in sound/style between albums than RTB and CP.

[Silas Lang]

QUOTE (micgtr71 @ Jul 16 2012, 07:45 PM)

Great record. Better than Roll the Bones, Test for Echo, Vapor Trails, and Snakes and Arrows. It may even be better that Presto as well. Of course this is only my opinion.

I agree except I'd replace VT with HYF. It's definitely better than Presto for me and home to some of their best real rockers in a while and an underrated closer. Mostly great but still in the 11-15 range.

[spock]

Ranks in the top five for me - LOTS of guitars and the guitar work is very tasteful. But, this is one of those topics that breeds a million opines.

 

I will confess that it took a LONNGGG time for the album to grow on me. I think I listened a few times and threw it in the back of the pile for more than a couple of years. Going back to it, I had a new appreciation for Sun & Moon, Alien Shore (love the bass parts), Cold Fire, and Double Agent. I still play it a lot even these days.

 

 

[DBJetsman]

One of the worst...

 

[LedRush]

QUOTE (substancewithoutstyle @ Jul 16 2012, 07:54 PM)

QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Jul 16 2012, 07:50 PM) QUOTE (WCFIELDS @ Jul 16 2012, 07:46 PM) QUOTE (GeminiRising79 @ Jul 16 2012, 06:44 PM) The first really stinking album, imo. true actually.....the start of a sharp decline... presto was certainly nothing to brag about. Presto is where they started to roll down the hill, but they fell off the cliff with RTB. Interesting, as RTB won back a huge number of fans that were lost because of HYF and Presto. Counterparts lost them all again. It seems incredibly odd that someone could like Counterparts and dislike T4E, which improves on Counterparts in every possible way. Ditto with RTB and Presto.

[lerxt1990]

QUOTE (treeduck @ Jul 16 2012, 04:54 PM)

QUOTE (Fridge @ Jul 16 2012, 03:48 PM) My thoughts on this dud of an album are well documented elsewhere lol Fridge is alive and well!     Break out the WHISKY!

[Cygnus 2112]

Nobody's Hero is my favourite Rush song. I'd say CoS, 2112, RUSH, MP, FBN, CA, CP is my top 7

[Merely Space]

Dead last for me.

[Bangster of Goats]

I remember being a little surprised at how it sounded back then (with the return of Peter Collins I was expecting a more PoW/HYF sound) but looking back, it's the best of the 90s for me. Which isn't much actually, given there are only 3 albums from the 90s and I consider the 90s to be Rush's weakest decade. But I like it enough, though a couple songs fall flat for me (Speed of Love and Nobody's Hero).

 

I always kinda thought from Roll the Bones (and perhaps Presto) on, they started stretching themselves a little too thin. I think they could have trimmed off some of the clunkier tracks on those albums (Superconductor, Face Up, Speed of Love, Limbo (they should have stripped the lyrics from Virtuality, added some more instrumentation, and made that T4E's instrumental instead) and worked a little more on the other, stronger songs; flesh 'em out a little more.

 

They've redeemed themselves after the 90s though, I think VT, S&A, and especially CA are all pretty solid (mixing/mastering/production issues aside.)

Edited July 17, 2012 by Bangster of Goats

[ColdFireYYZ]

QUOTE (LedRush @ Jul 16 2012, 10:51 PM)

It seems incredibly odd that someone could like Counterparts and dislike T4E, which improves on Counterparts in every possible way.

I've said this a few times here: a lot of T4E sounds like songs that weren't good enough to make it onto CP. I love CP but T4E is my least favorite album, and that's one of the reasons. Plus T4E sounds lifeless and kind of bland and dull to me.

[HomesickAlien]

QUOTE (LedRush @ Jul 16 2012, 09:51 PM)

QUOTE (substancewithoutstyle @ Jul 16 2012, 07:54 PM) QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Jul 16 2012, 07:50 PM) QUOTE (WCFIELDS @ Jul 16 2012, 07:46 PM) QUOTE (GeminiRising79 @ Jul 16 2012, 06:44 PM) The first really stinking album, imo. true actually.....the start of a sharp decline... presto was certainly nothing to brag about. Presto is where they started to roll down the hill, but they fell off the cliff with RTB. Interesting, as RTB won back a huge number of fans that were lost because of HYF and Presto. Counterparts lost them all again. It seems incredibly odd that someone could like Counterparts and dislike T4E, which improves on Counterparts in every possible way. Ditto with RTB and Presto. I know I've been poking fun at what are obviously some of your favorite albums. It's just that, at least for me, the string of albums from Presto through T4E marked a considerable decline in Rush's creativity. The number of bad songs far outnumbered the good. While I don't hate Counterparts, it's only marginally better than the others in a quartet of, at best, mediocre albums, save perhaps Presto. However, that's just my opinion and any criticism is just good natured fun. What matters is that you like them.     That said, T4E is an improvement on CP?

Edited July 17, 2012 by substancewithoutstyle

[Fridge]

QUOTE (lerxt1990 @ Jul 17 2012, 03:06 AM)

QUOTE (treeduck @ Jul 16 2012, 04:54 PM) QUOTE (Fridge @ Jul 16 2012, 03:48 PM) My thoughts on this dud of an album are well documented elsewhere lol Fridge is alive and well!     Break out the WHISKY! You're too kind   You've even remembered the correct spelling...I'm impressed

[GeddysMullet]

QUOTE (substancewithoutstyle @ Jul 16 2012, 06:18 PM)

QUOTE (LedRush @ Jul 16 2012, 04:45 PM) QUOTE (substancewithoutstyle @ Jul 16 2012, 04:35 PM) I never really cared for it. They were trying too hard to sound like the alternative bands that were around at the time. The first time I heard Animate I heard similarities to Evenflow by Pearl Jam. I can appreciate what they were trying to do, but I don't like the results. I can understand why a lot of people like it, because it is sandwiched between RTB and T4E! I love RTB and T4E! Each one improved on the unfinished promise of the previous album. Presto is superior to RTB, even though it marked the beginning of a period of creative decline.   CP is a masterpiece compared to T4E, at least some real effort went into it. Now, wait a minute. There's a considerable swath of Rush's catalogue that I don't particularly care for, but I think it's terrifically unfair to suggest that they ever made an album without putting real effort into it.   Regardless of whether or not a person likes the results, I don't see how anyone with more than a passing familiarity with this band could believe that they've ever made an album without putting in real effort.

[LeaveMyThingAlone]

Counterparts has ALWAYS been Top 5 for me, though with the release of Clockwork it is close as Permanent Waves, Hemispheres, Moving Pictures, will always be top 3

 

I've made my opinions about CP clear around here before. It's effing brilliant. It'd Big Al in all his glory announcing that he's back and better than ever.

 

Beautiful solos (Cut to the Chase, Leave that thing Alone), Sick riffs (Double Agent, Cut to the Chase, Stick it Out,), Personal deep lyrics (Nobody's Hero, Everyday Glory). This album has it all IMO

 

Animate, Double Agent, LTTA (Rush's best instrumental ever), Between Sun and Moon, and Cut to the Chase are 5 of Rush's all time best songs. Animate is probably Rush's best song of the 90's

 

Between Sun and Moon has one of the coolest instrumental breaks Rush has ever done.

 

Alex's sound on this album is awesome. After the synth dominated Power Windows and Hold Your Fire and the crappy thin sound of Presto and Roll the Bones, they really came together (thanks to Kevin Shirley) and made an album that was just straightforward good old fashioned hard rock that had a great in your face sound, but wasn't so compressed you couldn't hear anything.

 

Even in the documentary, you can tell the band has an appreciation for this album, 20 years later. It's the sound they were going for

 

 

[LeaveMyThingAlone]

QUOTE (LedRush @ Jul 16 2012, 09:51 PM)

QUOTE (substancewithoutstyle @ Jul 16 2012, 07:54 PM) QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Jul 16 2012, 07:50 PM) QUOTE (WCFIELDS @ Jul 16 2012, 07:46 PM) QUOTE (GeminiRising79 @ Jul 16 2012, 06:44 PM) The first really stinking album, imo. true actually.....the start of a sharp decline... presto was certainly nothing to brag about. Presto is where they started to roll down the hill, but they fell off the cliff with RTB. Interesting, as RTB won back a huge number of fans that were lost because of HYF and Presto. Counterparts lost them all again. So you know of fans that came back for Roll the Bones and then heard Counterparts and left them again? I can't imagine feeling that strongly about RTB and hating CP that much. CP totally blows RTB out of the water IMO.

[LeaveMyThingAlone]

QUOTE (LedRush @ Jul 16 2012, 09:51 PM)

QUOTE (substancewithoutstyle @ Jul 16 2012, 07:54 PM) QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Jul 16 2012, 07:50 PM) QUOTE (WCFIELDS @ Jul 16 2012, 07:46 PM) QUOTE (GeminiRising79 @ Jul 16 2012, 06:44 PM) The first really stinking album, imo. true actually.....the start of a sharp decline... presto was certainly nothing to brag about. Presto is where they started to roll down the hill, but they fell off the cliff with RTB. It seems incredibly odd that someone could like Counterparts and dislike T4E, which improves on Counterparts in every possible way. Look around the polls around here and you'll see Counterparts consistently in the top 10 for most Rush fans and T4E near the bottom.   WHY? LYRICS, LYRICS, LYRICS   Musically, I think the albums are similar and the production sounds similar. Lyrically, however Counterparts has Neil's most personal, straightforward, and dark lyrics.   T4E's lyrics? Half the World, Dog Years, Virtuality, Totem, Time and Motion? No good and some of the lyrics are downright cringe worthy. T4E also has the honor of containing Rush's worst instrumental in Limbo, which goes nowhere   Sorry, but I just don't see how T4E improves on everything Counterparts was. After the brilliance of CP, it turned out I was bitterly disappointed in T4E

[LedRush]

QUOTE (LeaveMyThingAlone @ Jul 17 2012, 10:13 AM)

QUOTE (LedRush @ Jul 16 2012, 09:51 PM) QUOTE (substancewithoutstyle @ Jul 16 2012, 07:54 PM) QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Jul 16 2012, 07:50 PM) QUOTE (WCFIELDS @ Jul 16 2012, 07:46 PM) QUOTE (GeminiRising79 @ Jul 16 2012, 06:44 PM) The first really stinking album, imo. true actually.....the start of a sharp decline... presto was certainly nothing to brag about. Presto is where they started to roll down the hill, but they fell off the cliff with RTB. It seems incredibly odd that someone could like Counterparts and dislike T4E, which improves on Counterparts in every possible way. Look around the polls around here and you'll see Counterparts consistently in the top 10 for most Rush fans and T4E near the bottom.   WHY? LYRICS, LYRICS, LYRICS   Musically, I think the albums are similar and the production sounds similar. Lyrically, however Counterparts has Neil's most personal, straightforward, and dark lyrics.   T4E's lyrics? Half the World, Dog Years, Virtuality, Totem, Time and Motion? No good and some of the lyrics are downright cringe worthy. T4E also has the honor of containing Rush's worst instrumental in Limbo, which goes nowhere   Sorry, but I just don't see how T4E improves on everything Counterparts was. After the brilliance of CP, it turned out I was bitterly disappointed in T4E Obviously, everyone has different opinions of what makes a good song and a good sound. To me, there is a big musical improvement from CP to T4E. Songs like Stick It Out, Cut To The Chase, Between Sun & Moon, Alien Shore, The Speed Of Love, Double Agent, Cold Fire and Everyday Glory are disjointed and/or bland. I appreciate the return to guitar oriented, harder rock. But the songs just don't cut the mustard. On T4E, the opposite is true. The music alone makes great, cohesive songs, while sonically pushing the band to a more interesting place.   Regarding the lyrics, I just don't see what you're saying. Many of the songs from CP mentioned above fall flat as they can be trite, overly repetitive or just not engaging. T4E has more universal lyrics. The album is indeed more playful than Counterparts, but even in a song like Dog Years, we are given an extra layer or two of meanings that make the song interesting.   Anyway, I've said this before and I'll say it again: One of the great things about Rush is that they are so diverse that very different people can love very different things about the band. And even though I don't like this album as a Rush album, I still like it more than most of the other output of bands I do really like.

[Xanadu93]

Third-favorite Rush album behind PeW and PoW.

 

To me, it marked the true return of heavy guitars after a rather lengthy absence. As much as I love the '80s - and this isn't said lightly, I love their '80s material - it was time for a change. Presto attempted it but kinda flopped, and Roll the Bones only slightly improved. I see Counterparts as taking the songwriting, improving it, and also having great sound, as opposed to Rupert Hine's no-balls production. The lyrics are also superb - I prefer the personal aspect of this record's lyrics. I also love the keyboards being in the background, yet fleshing out the sound.

[Shreddy Lee]

For me, in the bottom 50%. I've ranked it #15 lately. In comparison to the couple of albums just before it, the direction they took it in terms of the sound is a vast improvement. But I still don't find myself liking many of the songs.

 

Since I'm not too fond of it, I don't usually listen to most of it, but when I recently revisited the album, I was struck by how poor I thought the lyrics were. I really don't like the general approach Neil took to this one, and while TFE often gets criticized for this because of stuff like Dog Years or Virtuality, I think Counterparts has even more clunkers lyrically.

 

The first few lines of Nobody's Hero make me cringe, I can hardly continue with the rest of the song. Alien Shore: "for you and me, sex is not a competition, sex is not a job description"? I could hardly believe what I was hearing. The Speed of Love: the title says it all. Cold Fire: "you know how complex women are." I notice that most of the songs seem to be about love in one way or another, and it made me thankful that it's not a subject they usually go for.

[New World Kid]

Top 5 for me. One of Rush's few legitimate Concept Albums.

[Union 5-3992]

One of my favorites. It usually sits between 4 and 6 so I went with option three.

[ColdFireYYZ]

QUOTE (Shreddy Lee @ Jul 17 2012, 08:11 PM)

For me, in the bottom 50%. I've ranked it #15 lately. In comparison to the couple of albums just before it, the direction they took it in terms of the sound is a vast improvement. But I still don't find myself liking many of the songs. Since I'm not too fond of it, I don't usually listen to most of it, but when I recently revisited the album, I was struck by how poor I thought the lyrics were. I really don't like the general approach Neil took to this one, and while TFE often gets criticized for this because of stuff like Dog Years or Virtuality, I think Counterparts has even more clunkers lyrically. The first few lines of Nobody's Hero make me cringe, I can hardly continue with the rest of the song. Alien Shore: "for you and me, sex is not a competition, sex is not a job description"? I could hardly believe what I was hearing. The Speed of Love: the title says it all. Cold Fire: "you know how complex women are." I notice that most of the songs seem to be about love in one way or another, and it made me thankful that it's not a subject they usually go for.

I just tune out the lyrics and focus on the music. But I do agree that CP has quite a few cringe-worthy moments.