rushgoober Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Please do not turn this into a religious debate, as that's not the intention here. The subject does seem worthy of discussion, however, in the context of the album and the possible literary correlations. Neil says in the liner notes: QUOTE There is a metaphorical garden in the acts and attitudes of a person's life, and the treasures of that garden are love and respect. I have come to realize that the gathering of love and respect - from others and for myself - has been the real quest of my life. "Now we must tend our garden." Neil is an intelligent and well-read individual. There's no way he could have not at least thought of "The Garden of Eden" when calling a song "The Garden." I'm not saying he's making any kind of religious statement here, but it seems worth mentioning as the song DOES seem to reflect Neil's philosophy, which could be equated to his version of religion or spirituality in some way. He has often talked in his lyrics about hope, love, respect, free will and a philosophical ideal. Perhaps he's equating The Garden in the story to certain aspects of The Garden of Eden - that of a time of innocence, love, purity, peace, reflection, of being more connected to who we are and our true natures - of a time before the fall from grace, as opposed to being caught up in the illusions, distractions and difficulties of the world. The theme of Clockwork Angels begins in Caravan with a time of innocence, hope and dreams: QUOTE For a boy, life on the farm was idyllic, but for the young man I became, that very peace and predictability were stifling, unbearable. I had big dreams, and needed a big place to explore them: the whole wide world. On the journey, he hits the realities of the world and has experiences that are familiar to us; that of having belief, structure and will forced upon us (BU2B, Clockwork Angels), working to break free to decide our own path (The Anarchist), searching the world for treasure both literal and metaphorical (Carnies, Seven Cities of Gold), falling in love (Halo Effect), being hurt and enduring tragedy (The Wreckers), having doubt (BU2B2), and then finally getting perspective on the positive aspects of life (Headlong Flight), walking away from those who would hurt us (Wish Them Well) and moving towards the light, the good, towards what we have learned and gained, back full circle towards a time of innocence, but with the perspective gained by wisdom and experience (The Garden). The character's story reflects a fall from grace and an eventual return, which could easily be equated metaphorically to "The Garden of Eden," and a desire to return to that more pure state. This is a sacred place, even if it is merely metaphorical, that needs to be protected. QUOTE The measure of a life is a measure of love and respect So hard to earn, so easily burned In the fullness of time A garden to nurture and protect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t2s Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gompers Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 The Garden of Eden also introduced corruption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushgoober Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 QUOTE (Gompers @ Jul 10 2012, 08:03 AM) The Garden of Eden also introduced corruption. an excellent point, and another interesting correlation.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadianice Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 in-a-gadda-da-vidda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finding IT Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 The Garden is a pretty tight reference to the "Garden" in Candide. I've been a fan of Voltaire since I read him as an undergrad nearly 30 years ago (yeah, I'm old). In Candide, the Garden is a metaphor for life. Candide's teacher and mentor, Pangloss, refers to the the Garden often. He reminds Candide again and again, "this is the best of all possible worlds" and advises him to cultivate his garden, i.e., his life. The Garden in Candide does likely have a sardonic reference to the Garden of Eden. Candide is subtitled "Optimism" and the blindly optimistic themes that were present in French society of that time were ridiculed through the text by Voltaire. I really need to pull it off the shelf and read it again. Great stuff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeddyRulz Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I 'm sure Neil is well aware of the Garden of Eden, but I don't believe he meant any correlation between Eden and the "garden" of his song. His "garden" is Voltaire's "garden" from "Candide" - a purely metaphorical garden, where we grow, tend to, nurture, protect, and lovingly appreciate the good things we've sown in our lives... mostly "love and respect." The "garden" is in our hearts. Nothing more. Yet, on the other hand, that's quite a lot. Heavy stuff, actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReflectedLight Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 i don't think it crossed his mind at all. if anything he probably went to a botanical garden a few days before the lyrics popped into his head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush-O-Matic Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jul 10 2012, 10:05 AM) QUOTE (Gompers @ Jul 10 2012, 08:03 AM) The Garden of Eden also introduced corruption. an excellent point, and another interesting correlation.... Neil reads quite a bit, and has mentioned before that he is often influenced in his writing by things he's read, or life experiences in general, without realizing it. He has quoted the Bible or made reference to it on several occasions. It's important to note that regardless of any religious implications, or whether or not you believe in its Truth, the Bible is an impressive and influential literary work. So, there are any number of bits of the Bible that could have influence Neil's writing - positively and negatively - and they may have been indirect. When Adam & Eve were cast out of the Garden, an angel wth a flaming sword was placed there to guard the entrance. Jesus reflected on what he felt was his burden of the end of his life approaching while in the Garden of Gethsemane. The Garden, as a metaphor for life, or the end of life, is certainly not a new idea. (Sara Covin Juengst- Like a Garden, QUOTE "What is it about a garden that has such strong attraction for so many of us? In this beautifully illustrated book, Sara Covin Juengst answers this question as she explores the way the metaphor of the garden is used in the Bible. She looks at how the various garden images are used to convey ideas of God's providential care, our responsibility to steward the earth, the discipline of the Christian life, what it means to bear fruit, and the harvest waiting for us in the "new heaven and earth." She also discusses ancient gardening routines, such as plowing, planting, and pruning, to shed light on the significance of the symbolism used in biblical passages that use these images." Neil's story closer probably had any number of influences, Biblical and otherwise. Many, many authors - those of prose, poetry and song - have been inspired by the Bible, without it necessarily being religious. I mean, even Iron Butterfly recorded "In A Gadda Da Vida" (In The Garden of Eden). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godeater2112 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Sorry goober, but I find this borders on non-nonsensical. A Garden can be a metaphor for a million and one things, clearly in this case has nothing to do with Eden. On the contrary probably alludes to an ending... nature, peace and simplicity away from the throes of technology, conflict, adventure and change. It is the peaceful, reflective end of things. Death or retirement whatever, the end of time. Not one single element here in any way crosses with the nature of the Garden of Eden... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushgoober Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 QUOTE (GeddyRulz @ Jul 10 2012, 08:16 AM) I 'm sure Neil is well aware of the Garden of Eden, but I don't believe he meant any correlation between Eden and the "garden" of his song. His "garden" is Voltaire's "garden" from "Candide" - a purely metaphorical garden, where we grow, tend to, nurture, protect, and lovingly appreciate the good things we've sown in our lives... mostly "love and respect." The "garden" is in our hearts. Nothing more. Yet, on the other hand, that's quite a lot. Heavy stuff, actually. I know that he's referring to Candide as it says so in the liner notes... but that doesn't mean this didn't also cross his mind, and it doesn't mean there still isn't a correlation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadianice Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Tuesday Afternoooooon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treeduck Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbirdsong Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 QUOTE (Finding IT @ Jul 10 2012, 10:12 AM) The Garden is a pretty tight reference to the "Garden" in Candide. I've been a fan of Voltaire since I read him as an undergrad nearly 30 years ago (yeah, I'm old). In Candide, the Garden is a metaphor for life. Candide's teacher and mentor, Pangloss, refers to the the Garden often. He reminds Candide again and again, "this is the best of all possible worlds" and advises him to cultivate his garden, i.e., his life. The Garden in Candide does likely have a sardonic reference to the Garden of Eden. Candide is subtitled "Optimism" and the blindly optimistic themes that were present in French society of that time were ridiculed through the text by Voltaire. I really need to pull it off the shelf and read it again. Great stuff! This. I think the Garden is an apt metaphor for one human life. It is a good symbol because the condition of the garden will rely on how much work you put into it. No two will ever be exactly alike. I have a garden this year and with the heat wave it has been a challenge, but I am getting out of that plot of land what I put into it. The fruit and vegetables taste better to me because I grew them myself and have faced whatever mother nature has handed me thus far this season. As for the Garden of Eden, like it or not the Bible has had more influence on Western literature than any other written work. It is only natural to continue to see symbols and ideas emerge from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenken Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jul 10 2012, 09:29 AM) Please do not turn this into a religious debate *Looks at topic title *Looks at very first line *Laughs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReflectedLight Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 when i think of the garden i think of my grape tomatoes that are starting to show along with all the marigolds in between. that and having a cold one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todem Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Your reaching Goober. The Garden is purely a metaphor. The Garden is your family and all that is important to you and your life. Tending to your Garden should be your number one priority. Garden of Eden? I don't think Neil had any thought of that in this song nor it's title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeddyRulz Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Todem @ Jul 10 2012, 01:29 PM) Your reaching Goober. The Garden is purely a metaphor. The Garden is your family and all that is important to you and your life. Tending to your Garden should be your number one priority. Garden of Eden? I don't think Neil had any thought of that in this song nor it's title. Ditto. I don't think Mr. Peart intended any deliberate correlation between his "garden" and the Garden of Eden. I'll allow that the phrase "Garden of Eden" may have quickly passed through Neil's brain while seeing and working with the word "garden" for so long during the writing process. But then, he may also have had the phrase "garden salad" pass through his mind just as often and as briefly. Edited July 10, 2012 by GeddyRulz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H82LUZ Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) I Think it is from a Chinese philosophy, Find Your Garden that make`s one Happy.Tend to it every day with love and respect,It reflects your inner light of Life. Dang again it double posts ...Must be Firefox ..Sorry guys. Edited July 10, 2012 by H82LUZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H82LUZ Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I Think it is from a Chinese philosophy, Find Your Garden that make`s one Happy.Tend to it every day with love and respect,It reflects your inner light of Life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godeater2112 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 QUOTE (H82LUZ @ Jul 10 2012, 03:18 PM) I Think it is from a Chinese philosophy, Find Your Garden that make`s one Happy.Tend to it every day with love and respect,It reflects your inner light of Life. Not sure. I think it may just be a nod to the concept of a "berry" garden and how at the end it will or should be burned to the ground. I think Neil borrowed a lot of the philosophy from the following Dead Kennedys lyrics: No junk food, just earthly goods I ate weird berries in the woods Now I'm seeing colors, I'm getting higher I think I'll start a forest fire Burn it to the ground! See what I mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eshine Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Good greif. No Rushgoober, the Garden is not about the Garden of Eden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eshine Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 QUOTE (drbirdsong @ Jul 10 2012, 12:22 PM) As for the Garden of Eden, like it or not the Bible has had more influence on Western literature than any other written work. It is only natural to continue to see symbols and ideas emerge from it. Not in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushgoober Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 QUOTE (trenken @ Jul 10 2012, 10:59 AM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jul 10 2012, 09:29 AM) Please do not turn this into a religious debate *Looks at topic title *Looks at very first line *Laughs *Looks at poster *Looks at member title *Laughs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godeater2112 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jul 10 2012, 04:35 PM) QUOTE (trenken @ Jul 10 2012, 10:59 AM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jul 10 2012, 09:29 AM) Please do not turn this into a religious debate *Looks at topic title *Looks at very first line *Laughs *Looks at poster *Looks at member title *Laughs Thank god so far nobuddy has looked at *my* member and laughed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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