Geddyleegenes Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 (edited) I've been thinking this for a week or so now. I think (and yes, I acknowledge this is strictly personal opinion) that when it comes to the song, "Headlong Flight", it would have made more sense if it had been the last song on the album. I've read in other posts here that some are a bit puzzled as to why there is such a positive song after "The Wreckers", and then that same positive song is followed by "the real downer of a song", "BU2B2". I have to agree. "BU2B2" is such an opposite to "Headlong Flight". "HF" is so positive and so enlightening. Then "BU2B2" comes along and starts speaking of life going from bad to worse. I understand the main character being upset with belief having failed him and optimism having abandoned him. But there's more to the despair in that song than that. Besides that, I think "BU2B2" should actually have come after "Wish Them Well". "WTW" pairs well with "The Wreckers". The Wreckers is all about all those nasty people who dig at you and try to tear you down. "Wish Them Well" teaches to forget (and forgive?) those people and get on with life. Had "BU2B2" been after "Wish Them Well", then it would have led nicely into "The Garden", and the album would have concluded with "Headlong Flight". So the song line-up would have been: Caravan BU2B Clockwork Angels The Anarchist Carnies Halo Effect Seven Cities of Gold The Wreckers Wish Them Well BU2B2 The Garden Headlong Flight "The Garden" is a great song, but it concludes the album "quietly". (Not that there's anything wrong with that.) I just believe that "Headlong Flight" would have been a really great way of ending the album (and the hero's life) on a brilliant positive. Totally rocking out to the end. Anyone else? Edited June 24, 2012 by Geddyleegenes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D3strukt Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Or you could take BU2B out and put HLF in it's place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanaseb Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Do you think it'd work lyrically too however, in the frame of the concept? That may have been the reason for it's positioning.. or the fact that The Garden is just simply a beautiful end note Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weakly Criminal Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 They've been ending albums with something quiet, refelctive and summary for a while now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanaseb Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 QUOTE (Weakly Criminal @ Jun 24 2012, 06:24 PM) They've been ending albums with something quiet, refelctive and summary for a while now. you think We Hold On is quiet? ? ? I beg to differ hehe. summary yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pause Rewind Replay Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 QUOTE (Xanaseb @ Jun 24 2012, 06:28 PM) QUOTE (Weakly Criminal @ Jun 24 2012, 06:24 PM) They've been ending albums with something quiet, refelctive and summary for a while now. you think We Hold On is quiet? ? ? I beg to differ hehe. summary yes. And Out of The Cradle is so quiet and peaceful Anyway, my changes would be: toss BUB2 and The Garden, otherwise keep order as is: Caravan BU2B CA Anarchist Carnies Halo Effect Seven Cities Wreckers HF WTW BU2B2 is musically inert, and the sudden mood crash from HLF (I wish that I could live it all again ) makes litle sense. The Garden ( I realize I'm a tiny minority on this one) to me is musically depressing, lyrically sappy and sucks the life away from what should have been a foot-stomping, roof-raising closer in Wish Them Well. That WTW fadeout with Geddy yelling "just wish them welll..." is the end of the CD for me. I hit the stop button and exit with a smile on my face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmo2112 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 The Garden is the perfect album closer. If this were to be Rush's last album I think that would be a beautiful sentiment to end with. Kind of gives me the same kind of eternal/timeless vibe as Vital Signs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Avatar Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 QUOTE (Jmo2112 @ Jun 24 2012, 10:17 PM) The Garden is the perfect album closer. If this were to be Rush's last album I think that would be a beautiful sentiment to end with. Kind of gives me the same kind of eternal/timeless vibe as Vital Signs. I love Vital Signs! It was my favorite closer before The Garden. And I think the order of the songs is perfect. Life is full of ups and downs. One minute you're saying that, on the whole, it's been great, and the next you're saying that life stinks. The Garden sees the protagonist come to grips with the fact that life is short...so love hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
losingit2k Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 The album is perfect the way it is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmo2112 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Everybody got to elevate from the norm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublebullout Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I think HLF at the end would have worked, but I believe the The Garden is actually meant to serve as the eulogy or "deathbed" epiphany of the protagonist. HLF doesn't quite fit that role as well as The Garden. Moreover, there are some similarities between the end of Ecclesiastes and The Garden. After having lived a long, unfulfilling life of hedonistic pursuits, the Teacher in Ecclesiastes finally concludes that the only true purpose of life to keep God's commandments, for that is how your life will be measured. In The Garden, the protagonist concludes after a life of adventure that the true purpose of life is to love and to give, for that is how your life will be measured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earthshine Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 QUOTE (losingit2k @ Jun 24 2012, 11:07 PM) The album is perfect the way it is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel Rat Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Would be a completely different album, imo - and either way would be pretty cool. Still, I always tend toward the "sacred" feel, as opposed to the "secular," I'll always love "The Garden" as a closer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treeduck Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 QUOTE (Steel Rat @ Jun 25 2012, 02:03 AM) Would be a completely different album, imo - and either way would be pretty cool. Still, I always tend toward the "sacred" feel, as opposed to the "secular," I'll always love "The Garden" as a closer. Well, well, well Steel Rat returning to the scene of the crime...what next, Gary Leroy Rushgoober III renouncing his hate for Vapor Trails?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vital signz Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 The album is metaphorical for Neil. Now he is tending his Garden. His family, home, his age etc... He went thru the Gruber years, his own rebirth and discovery, his coming to terms with those he just wishes well, and now he is tending to his Garden. The order of the songs is all about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vital signz Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 QUOTE (Captain Avatar @ Jun 25 2012, 12:01 AM)QUOTE (Jmo2112 @ Jun 24 2012, 10:17 PM) The Garden is the perfect album closer. If this were to be Rush's last album I think that would be a beautiful sentiment to end with. Kind of gives me the same kind of eternal/timeless vibe as Vital Signz. I love Vital Signz! Why, thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Presto-digitation Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I wouldn't change the order myself, but I could see that as a good reflective song in the last spot, yes. I wouldn't love the album any more or less that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeddyRulz Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 (edited) I think the problem is entirely with where to place "Headlong Flight." It makes the most sense to remove it from where it is and put it in the last position, as the hero is reflecting on all he's been through and says he'd do it all again. This also helps the transition from "Wreckers" to "BU2B2," because the events in "Wreckers" caused the loss of hope and optimism in "BU2B2"! Those two songs should be together, without HF between them. So... move "Headlong Flight" from where it is and place it last, right? Problem solved. But no! The problem is, now the album doesn't end as emotionally strong as it does with "The Garden." There's no easy way to sequence the album, and "Headlong Flight" is to blame. Wherever you place it in the running order, you're either sacrificing emotional punch or you're making the story a little nonsensical. Edited June 25, 2012 by GeddyRulz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerxster Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeddyRulz Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 QUOTE (Lerxster @ Jun 25 2012, 09:35 AM) No to what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenken Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I actually think HF is in the right spot because ultimately this story doesn't have a happy ending, like 2112. I think this stems from Neil's very negative outlook on life and time in general, because he isnt religious. He views death as an end. He doesn't have that glowing view of life and death that religious people have. At that point in the story the hero is looking back realizing his life was what it was, that can't be changed now, but it was his life and living it again surely is better than what's coming, which is death. Then after that he's nearing the end of his life, like Neil is himself, has experienced a lot of heartbreak, like Neil has, and realizes that all he can do is live out his remaining days, try to find something to love but is still bitter about how things turned out. People are told everything happens for a reason. Well why did bad things happen to this good person? Something Neil writes about a LOT. Roll The Bones being one example. So the story doesnt have a happy ending. Not an overly sad ending, just life is what it is, it's so short and fragile and ultimately meaningless since we'll all cease to exist soon enough. Neil's view on this has never changed throughout his entire time in this band because he keeps writing about it and has since FBN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormtron Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Put Headlong Flight as the first song and pretend the rest is a flashback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerxster Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 QUOTE (GeddyRulz @ Jun 25 2012, 09:35 AM) QUOTE (Lerxster @ Jun 25 2012, 09:35 AM) No to what? No to changing the song order. There's a reason for the order. I think Neil and Rush knew what they were doing. The story on this album has gaps, and when the book comes out all will be understood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerxster Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 QUOTE (trenken @ Jun 25 2012, 09:43 AM) I actually think HF is in the right spot because ultimately this story doesn't have a happy ending, like 2112. I think this stems from Neil's very negative outlook on life and time in general, because he isnt religious. He views death as an end. He doesn't have that glowing view of life and death that religious people have. At that point in the story the hero is looking back realizing his life was what it was, that can't be changed now, but it was his life and living it again surely is better than what's coming, which is death. Then after that he's nearing the end of his life, like Neil is himself, has experienced a lot of heartbreak, like Neil has, and realizes that all he can do is live out his remaining days, try to find something to love but is still bitter about how things turned out. People are told everything happens for a reason. Well why did bad things happen to this good person? Something Neil writes about a LOT. Roll The Bones being one example. So the story doesnt have a happy ending. Not an overly sad ending, just life is what it is, it's so short and fragile and ultimately meaningless since we'll all cease to exist soon enough. Neil's view on this has never changed throughout his entire time in this band because he keeps writing about it and has since FBN. Flawed post since poster assumes he knows what's inside Neil's head because he reads Neil's stuff. I'd bet Neil would cringe at your assumptions, however informed you think you are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeddyRulz Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 QUOTE (trenken @ Jun 25 2012, 09:43 AM) I actually think HF is in the right spot because ultimately this story doesn't have a happy ending, like 2112. I think this stems from Neil's very negative outlook on life and time in general, because he isnt religious. He views death as an end. He doesn't have that glowing view of life and death that religious people have. At that point in the story the hero is looking back realizing his life was what it was, that can't be changed now, but it was his life and living it again surely is better than what's coming, which is death. Then after that he's nearing the end of his life, like Neil is himself, has experienced a lot of heartbreak, like Neil has, and realizes that all he can do is live out his remaining days, try to find something to love but is still bitter about how things turned out. People are told everything happens for a reason. Well why did bad things happen to this good person? Something Neil writes about a LOT. Roll The Bones being one example. So the story doesnt have a happy ending. Not an overly sad ending, just life is what it is, it's so short and fragile and ultimately meaningless since we'll all cease to exist soon enough. Neil's view on this has never changed throughout his entire time in this band because he keeps writing about it and has since FBN. No. Leaving HF where it is is still problematic. You (and the band) have it this way: 1. Difficult experiences. (Carnies, Halo Effect, Wreckers) 2. Still, I'd do it all again! Yeah! (HF) 3. My bad experiences have brought me to my lowest point. (BU2B2) Sounds a little bipolar, doesn't it? Remove HF (take out the #2 above), and it makes much more sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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