Today's rock wouldn't exist if the Beatles Hadn't

[Mr. Not]

QUOTE (go2wrk@95974 @ Jun 20 2012, 12:08 PM)

QUOTE (Ovningskora @ Jun 20 2012, 11:20 AM) QUOTE (laughedatbytime @ Jun 20 2012, 10:53 AM) Dumbest thread ever. I agree, no one's being objective. Everyone's just offended at the thought of the Beatles not being as greatest thing to happen in the musical world No.. you're offended at your opinion not be excepted here..simply put. You believe today's band's are just as good if not better than The Beatles.   You are dis-respecting the greatest rock band that ever lived....and it's fan's....That's a cardinal sin, in my book..Period. >No.. you're offended at your opinion not be excepted here..simply put.   accepted* and it's more of an annoyance that people will find any excuse or explanation they can to fit The Beatles in somewhere.   Back to the concept of "Blind Guardian was influenced by Deep Purple and therefore The Beatles" which beherit Jr. insinuated.   Well, Blind Guardian's biggest influence was Helloween without a doubt., so let's get a more accurate analysis and look atHelloween's influences. The number categories represent how many of the band members site which band as an influence:   3 Deep Purple 2 UFO 2 Rainbow 2 Kiss 1 The Beatles 1 Scorpions 1 Van Halen 1 Led Zeppelin 1 Sex Pistols 1 Wishbone Ash 1 Sweet 1 Aerosmith 1 Thin Lizzy   (only 3 members cited their influences on their official website.)     By a Beatles fan's cause and effect logic (which I will continuously state - is pretty sound at times), The Beatles are responsible for the creation of Blind Guardian in it's current state. Even if it's just a little tiny bit, and it's probably is, a very very tiny bit. (No one can truly determine how history would have been changed if certain events were left out, there's only educated guesses - but no definitive...)   Here's the catch: not commonly would any other fans of any of the bands which were influences to Blind Guardian's influences state this!   This has continuously given me the impression that Beatle fanboys, or the musical media for that matter, love to obnoxiously remind and inform everyone of their influence on rock. It was relevant during the British Invasion - now not so much. It's definitely more of a team effort, how can you people not see this when it's so clear? Rock was changed by many - not the few.   Stop The Beatles circle jerk already!     ]>You believe today's band's are just as good if not better than The Beatles.   I like most of them a lot more. In terms of technical talent there's always been musicians way more interesting than The Beatles. Being a Rush fan surely that means something to you?   But this is unrelated, and I apologize for yet again pointing out another reason why The Beatles aren't the best band ever       >You are dis-respecting the greatest rock band that ever lived....and it's fan's....That's a cardinal sin, in my book..Period.   Exactly, you treat Beatles like a religion. Not much logic, but a ton of emotion. You like many others think the Beatles were of much more importance than they actually were.   I'm disrespecting them by critiquing their actual importance and relevance and how their fans make them out to be gods when they're not.   What if I hated their music too? I have a friend who hates pop - and hates The Beatles more than all other old-time bands for being forced to listen to them and having idiots yell "You don't like The Beatles!? What's wrong with you?"   He listens to ambient music exclusively, and String quartets occasionally since he likes playing the Cello.   One likes to believe in the freedom of music, not musical oppression.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Ovningskora

[Mr. Not]

QUOTE (Rick N. Backer @ Jun 20 2012, 12:30 PM)

QUOTE (Ovningskora @ Jun 20 2012, 09:58 AM) But this thread has made clear most here are too caught up in wet panties (and we are talking about dudes here too) to even consider that they get too much credit in comparison to other musical innovators (to the point where it's obnoxious to me. Can you give me an example of another act you think deserves a similar amount of credit, but doesn't get it? No. No band deserves the amount of credit The Beatles have gotten.

[Mr. Not]

QUOTE (laughedatbytime @ Jun 20 2012, 12:32 PM)

QUOTE (Ovningskora @ Jun 20 2012, 12:20 PM) QUOTE (laughedatbytime @ Jun 20 2012, 10:53 AM) Dumbest thread ever. I agree, no one's being objective. Everyone's just offended at the thought of the Beatles not being as greatest thing to happen in the musical world That's not what I was getting at.   Have you ever heard of an artist NOT naming the Beatles as one of, if not THE major influence on them? I've heard a lot and I can't think of many who haven't named the Beatles. There's quite a bit, and it all depends what music you listen to, and what generation you're a part of.   Again, I'm not denying their influence on say, Jon Anderson, or my favorite guitarist Ty Tabor. I am however saying they did not revolutionize rock to the point where we need The Beatles. These things could easily happen with or without four big media figures loved by early everyone - including newly emerging bands.     Come to think of it - I can't find ANY source of not only Blind Guardian being influenced by Deep Purple, or Deep Purple being influenced by The Beatles.

[Rick N. Backer]

QUOTE (Ovningskora @ Jun 20 2012, 03:51 PM)

QUOTE (Rick N. Backer @ Jun 20 2012, 12:30 PM) QUOTE (Ovningskora @ Jun 20 2012, 09:58 AM) But this thread has made clear most here are too caught up in wet panties (and we are talking about dudes here too) to even consider that they get too much credit in comparison to other musical innovators (to the point where it's obnoxious to me. Can you give me an example of another act you think deserves a similar amount of credit, but doesn't get it? No. No band deserves the amount of credit The Beatles have gotten. Is there someone in particular you think is not adequately credited for their influence then? You did say "in comparison to other musical innovators."

[Mr. Not]

QUOTE (Rick N. Backer @ Jun 20 2012, 01:03 PM)

QUOTE (Ovningskora @ Jun 20 2012, 03:51 PM) QUOTE (Rick N. Backer @ Jun 20 2012, 12:30 PM) QUOTE (Ovningskora @ Jun 20 2012, 09:58 AM) But this thread has made clear most here are too caught up in wet panties (and we are talking about dudes here too) to even consider that they get too much credit in comparison to other musical innovators (to the point where it's obnoxious to me. Can you give me an example of another act you think deserves a similar amount of credit, but doesn't get it? No. No band deserves the amount of credit The Beatles have gotten. Is there someone in particular you think is not adequately credited for their influence then? You did say "in comparison to other musical innovators." Bartolomeo Cristofori invented the Piano, which is, next to the guitar, today's most iconic instrument. I didn't know who this man was until yesterday when looking into it. I find it concerning I've never heard a thing about this guy, actually. Other musicians to be recognized really depends on the genre. For example, Brian Eno is definitely recognized amongst* the Ambient culture, but not so much the musical.     Meanwhile... Rock and Pop are standard genres, So it's commonly assumed "if you like music you like the beatles"... I don't commonly hear vh1 tv show hosts or everyday people walking by saying that about any other band, and i know for a fact that it's not because it's true for the Beatles and no one else. It's true for no single type of musical group period.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Ovningskora

[Mr. Not]

Let me be narcissistic for a second and reflect on all the great points I've made in this thread

[ReRushed]

QUOTE (Ovningskora @ Jun 20 2012, 03:59 PM)

Come to think of it - I can't find ANY source of not only Blind Guardian being influenced by Deep Purple, or Deep Purple being influenced by The Beatles.

One of his favorite bands is Deep Purple.

 

Early on, Deep Purple covered the Beatles and I've read numerous interviews with Deep Purple band members where they talk about the Beatles influence on music.

[ReRushed]

QUOTE (Ovningskora @ Jun 20 2012, 04:27 PM)

Let me be narcissistic for a second and reflect on all the great points I've made in this thread

Narcissistic is an appropriate word.

[fledgehog]

you're clearly missing the point of why the beatles are regarded so highly. Sure, they did a lot of amazing, influential stuff musically, but even more important than that is the cultural impact they had. Can you think of musical act, before or after The Beatles, that has ever gotten the public reception that they received when they came to the United States for the first time? When you think about classical albums like Sargent Pepper and Abbey Road in the context of 2012, yeah, they don't seem all that much like breakthroughs (although I still consider Abbey Road to be one of the most musically genius albums ever written). But think about them in the context of the mid to late 1960s...orchestration, composition, and broad form of that caliber had been more or less reserved for orchestral or "classical" composers up to that point, not mainstream rock bands. Each album (perhaps there is some redundancy in the first four, and maybe not Let It Be either), had a significant impact on music and musical culture when it came out. Think of what it must have been like hearing Sgt. pepper's for the first time in 1967 -- unifying composition, brilliant songwriting, a full orchestra, and PRISTINE sound quality (even pre-remasters). THAT is why The Beatles are held in such high regard. It's not because their music is the end-all-be-all of music, or that they have set some sort of musical standard, but because they are such an icon of 20th century culture. It's like saying Lincoln or FDR, for example, is an overrated president. You may not agree with their political views or their actions, but you can't deny that they had a huge impact on our country's culture.

[launchpad67a]

QUOTE (fledgehog @ Jun 20 2012, 02:44 PM)

you're clearly missing the point of why the beatles are regarded so highly. Sure, they did a lot of amazing, influential stuff musically, but even more important than that is the cultural impact they had. Can you think of musical act, before or after The Beatles, that has ever gotten the public reception that they received when they came to the United States for the first time? When you think about classical albums like Sargent Pepper and Abbey Road in the context of 2012, yeah, they don't seem all that much like breakthroughs (although I still consider Abbey Road to be one of the most musically genius albums ever written). But think about them in the context of the mid to late 1960s...orchestration, composition, and broad form of that caliber had been more or less reserved for orchestral or "classical" composers up to that point, not mainstream rock bands. Each album (perhaps there is some redundancy in the first four, and maybe not Let It Be either), had a significant impact on music and musical culture when it came out. Think of what it must have been like hearing Sgt. pepper's for the first time in 1967 -- unifying composition, brilliant songwriting, a full orchestra, and PRISTINE sound quality (even pre-remasters). THAT is why The Beatles are held in such high regard. It's not because their music is the end-all-be-all of music, or that they have set some sort of musical standard, but because they are such an icon of 20th century culture. It's like saying Lincoln or FDR, for example, is an overrated president. You may not agree with their political views or their actions, but you can't deny that they had a huge impact on our country's culture.

This is a Very Accurate post!

[D3strukt]

You're so wrong it's not even funny, OP. The BEATLES wouldn't exist is CHUCK BERRY hadn't picked up a guitar. and CHUCK BERRY wouldn'tve existed had Robert Johnson not picked up a guitar.

[Mr. Not]

QUOTE (launchpad67a @ Jun 20 2012, 02:59 PM)

QUOTE (fledgehog @ Jun 20 2012, 02:44 PM) you're clearly missing the point of why the beatles are regarded so highly.  Sure, they did a lot of amazing, influential stuff musically, but even more important than that is the cultural impact they had.  Can you think of musical act, before or after The Beatles, that has ever gotten the public reception that they received when they came to the United States for the first time?  When you think about classical albums like Sargent Pepper and Abbey Road in the context of 2012, yeah, they don't seem all that much like breakthroughs (although I still consider Abbey Road to be one of the most musically genius albums ever written).  But think about them in the context of the mid to late 1960s...orchestration, composition, and broad form of that caliber had been more or less reserved for orchestral or "classical" composers up to that point, not mainstream rock bands.  Each album (perhaps there is some redundancy in the first four, and maybe not Let It Be either), had a significant impact on music and musical culture when it came out.  Think of what it must have been like hearing Sgt. pepper's for the first time in 1967 -- unifying composition, brilliant songwriting, a full orchestra, and PRISTINE sound quality (even pre-remasters).  THAT is why The Beatles are held in such high regard.  It's not because their music is the end-all-be-all of music, or that they have set some sort of musical standard, but because they are such an icon of 20th century culture.  It's like saying Lincoln or FDR, for example, is an overrated president.  You may not agree with their political views or their actions, but you can't deny that they had a huge impact on our country's culture. This is a Very Accurate post! it was a nice read, some i didnt know.

[Mr. Not]

QUOTE (ReRushed @ Jun 20 2012, 02:39 PM)

QUOTE (Ovningskora @ Jun 20 2012, 03:59 PM) Come to think of it - I can't find ANY source of not only Blind Guardian being influenced by Deep Purple, or Deep Purple being influenced by The Beatles. One of his favorite bands is Deep Purple.   Early on, Deep Purple covered the Beatles and I've read numerous interviews with Deep Purple band members where they talk about the Beatles influence on music. ah, couldn't find any band bios on the official english website.   those connections are still pretty vague, enough to the point where I can fairly state Blind Guardian was as influenced by The Beatles as they were Buddy Holly and so on.   (And that would be not at all, really. It's kind of like saying architects impacted the success of Blind Guardian by giving them places to perform. Does it need to be said? No.)

Edited June 20, 2012 by Ovningskora

[Shredder2]

Why is this thread even still going?

 

The Beatles' amount of success is very debatable upon many people, fans and critics alike, as there will be no winner in the end of the day... I already put in my input onto the matter of this subject. We'll need some more valid arguments, or we'll have to make another section just for debating on music.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Shredder2

[Mr. Not]

QUOTE (Shredder2 @ Jun 20 2012, 03:40 PM)

Why is this thread even still going? The Beatles' amount of success is very debatable upon many people, fans and critics alike, as there will be no winner in the end of the day... I already put in my input onto the matter of this subject. We'll need some more valid arguments, or we'll have to make another section just for debating on music.

you have decided to put me to rest. It shall be done!

 

 

 

 

 

[Ancient Ways]

QUOTE (Ovningskora @ Jun 19 2012, 11:20 PM)

QUOTE (go2wrk@95974 @ Jun 19 2012, 08:12 PM) Obviously, musical ignorance is contagious on this thread,with a couple people , when it comes to The Beatles, the greatest EVER, as the subject matter...You simply just don't know how it was.Ask any Rock Historian, and they'll tell you The Beatles were huge..a true phenomenon. Every Rock band, from 64 on, owes tremendous credit to The Beatles for their huge impact on the music scene...Without them, we would be on a different musical time=line completely.Who knows..rock might not've even happened/existed in it's present form.That's how influential The beatles were to popular music, imho.     See, are you serious? Are you aware of how ridiculous that is? You don't think us humans would be capable of making rock music if it weren't for The Beatles? That's essentially what you're saying you cocky asshole.   Just because the masses believe it doesn't make it true - hell, look at religion.     And aren't "Rock Historians" the geniuses working at RRHOF who claim Progressive Rock is racist?   How credible. I think calling him a cocky asshole was out of line here. He directed no specific remark towards you by name.

[beherit]

well, the dude's obviously a dumbass for making this thread to begin with, so name-calling would be expected

[Mr. Not]

QUOTE (Ancient Ways @ Jun 20 2012, 03:57 PM)

QUOTE (Ovningskora @ Jun 19 2012, 11:20 PM) QUOTE (go2wrk@95974 @ Jun 19 2012, 08:12 PM) Obviously, musical ignorance is contagious on this thread,with a couple people , when it comes to The Beatles, the greatest EVER, as the subject matter...You simply just don't know how it was.Ask any Rock Historian, and they'll tell you The Beatles were huge..a true phenomenon. Every Rock band, from 64 on, owes tremendous credit to The Beatles for their huge impact on the music scene...Without them, we would be on a different musical time=line completely.Who knows..rock might not've even happened/existed in it's present form.That's how influential The beatles were to popular music, imho.     See, are you serious? Are you aware of how ridiculous that is? You don't think us humans would be capable of making rock music if it weren't for The Beatles? That's essentially what you're saying you cocky asshole.   Just because the masses believe it doesn't make it true - hell, look at religion.     And aren't "Rock Historians" the geniuses working at RRHOF who claim Progressive Rock is racist?   How credible. I think calling him a cocky asshole was out of line here. He directed no specific remark towards you by name. Yeah. He didn't mind though then I shortly regained my usual composure... No harm done.   Moving on.

[Shredder2]

Okay, now I'm thinking this thread needs a lock on it.

[Mr. Not]

QUOTE (beherit @ Jun 20 2012, 04:05 PM)

well, the dude's obviously a dumbass for making this thread to begin with, so name-calling would be expected

Critical thinking isn't stupid.

Some offered some logical considerations and information while you were just... Well, incessant really.

 

My point was made clear and this thread proves that many will regard The Beatles as gods above all other musicians still today when many others are very capable and creative as well. I recognize The Beatles influence and importance, but hold belief no band should be forced upon another like I've seen The Beatles pushed on others. There's the reader's digest.

 

I don't expect you to get it quite yet, so no worries there. You will in time...

 

 

Edited June 21, 2012 by Ovningskora

[Mr. Not]

QUOTE (Shredder2 @ Jun 20 2012, 04:23 PM)

Okay, now I'm thinking this thread needs a lock on it.

Just let it die already

 

 

Edited June 20, 2012 by Ovningskora

[invisible airwave]

QUOTE (fledgehog @ Jun 20 2012, 04:44 PM)

you're clearly missing the point of why the beatles are regarded so highly. Sure, they did a lot of amazing, influential stuff musically, but even more important than that is the cultural impact they had. Can you think of musical act, before or after The Beatles, that has ever gotten the public reception that they received when they came to the United States for the first time? When you think about classical albums like Sargent Pepper and Abbey Road in the context of 2012, yeah, they don't seem all that much like breakthroughs (although I still consider Abbey Road to be one of the most musically genius albums ever written). But think about them in the context of the mid to late 1960s...orchestration, composition, and broad form of that caliber had been more or less reserved for orchestral or "classical" composers up to that point, not mainstream rock bands. Each album (perhaps there is some redundancy in the first four, and maybe not Let It Be either), had a significant impact on music and musical culture when it came out. Think of what it must have been like hearing Sgt. pepper's for the first time in 1967 -- unifying composition, brilliant songwriting, a full orchestra, and PRISTINE sound quality (even pre-remasters). THAT is why The Beatles are held in such high regard. It's not because their music is the end-all-be-all of music, or that they have set some sort of musical standard, but because they are such an icon of 20th century culture. It's like saying Lincoln or FDR, for example, is an overrated president. You may not agree with their political views or their actions, but you can't deny that they had a huge impact on our country's culture.

Great point, Beatles aren't just a great subject to teach in a music or rock history class. It's essential to learn about them in a general history course per se.

 

I remember Matt Pinfield saying something to that effect regarding Johnny Cash on America's history.

[go2wrk@95974]

QUOTE (Ovningskora @ Jun 20 2012, 04:24 PM)

QUOTE (beherit @ Jun 20 2012, 04:05 PM) well, the dude's obviously a dumbass for making this thread to begin with, so name-calling would be expected Critical thinking isn't stupid. Some offered some logical considerations and information while you were just... Well, incessant really.   My point was made clear and this thread proves that many will regard The Beatles as gods above all other musicians still today when many others are very capable and creative as well. I recognize The Beatles influence and importance, but hold belief no band should be forced upon another like I've seen The Beatles pushed on others. There's the reader's digest.   I don't expect you to get it quite yet, so no worries there. You will in time... Your just an attention-grabbing moron... Run along, know it all punk, your mama's callin' ya. Your just a musically-ignorant fool.... You obviously can't connect the dots, on how important The Beatles were to Rock & Roll. get lost numb-nut troll...quickly and quietly.

[t2s]

QUOTE (go2wrk@95974 @ Jun 22 2012, 12:58 AM)

QUOTE (Ovningskora @ Jun 20 2012, 04:24 PM) QUOTE (beherit @ Jun 20 2012, 04:05 PM) well, the dude's obviously a dumbass for making this thread to begin with, so name-calling would be expected Critical thinking isn't stupid. Some offered some logical considerations and information while you were just... Well, incessant really.   My point was made clear and this thread proves that many will regard The Beatles as gods above all other musicians still today when many others are very capable and creative as well. I recognize The Beatles influence and importance, but hold belief no band should be forced upon another like I've seen The Beatles pushed on others. There's the reader's digest.   I don't expect you to get it quite yet, so no worries there. You will in time... Your just an attention-grabbing moron... Run along, know it all punk, your mama's callin' ya. Your just a musically-ignorant fool.... You obviously can't connect the dots, on how important The Beatles were to Rock & Roll. get lost numb-nut troll...quickly and quietly. You're a f***ing idiot.

[D3strukt]

QUOTE (t2s @ Jun 22 2012, 03:18 AM)

QUOTE (go2wrk@95974 @ Jun 22 2012, 12:58 AM) QUOTE (Ovningskora @ Jun 20 2012, 04:24 PM) QUOTE (beherit @ Jun 20 2012, 04:05 PM) well, the dude's obviously a dumbass for making this thread to begin with, so name-calling would be expected Critical thinking isn't stupid. Some offered some logical considerations and information while you were just... Well, incessant really.   My point was made clear and this thread proves that many will regard The Beatles as gods above all other musicians still today when many others are very capable and creative as well. I recognize The Beatles influence and importance, but hold belief no band should be forced upon another like I've seen The Beatles pushed on others. There's the reader's digest.   I don't expect you to get it quite yet, so no worries there. You will in time... Your just an attention-grabbing moron... Run along, know it all punk, your mama's callin' ya. Your just a musically-ignorant fool.... You obviously can't connect the dots, on how important The Beatles were to Rock & Roll. get lost numb-nut troll...quickly and quietly. You're a f***ing idiot.