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Why I DON'T think CA will be played live


ALifeson85
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QUOTE (ALifeson85 @ Jun 8 2012, 06:02 PM)
QUOTE (Bastille Night @ Jun 7 2012, 07:56 PM)
Play the first few CA songs about yearning to leave one's upbringing and starting the journey (Caravan/BU2B/CA....discovering the world), then follow with a couple of early Rush songs.

Segue into the Anarchist/Carnies/Halo Effect....things initially seem great, but one soon learns the hazards of life on the road. Next, a few songs from the Rush heyday.

Next, 7 Cities/Wreckers/Headlong (things start to go shitty in your life), followed by a few 90's songs.

Then, BU2B2/Wish Them Well/The Garden...

Exactly. That's what I meant by my original post...I can imagine the possibility of them playing 2 -3 CA songs, then a few older tunes, then the next 2 -3 CA songs, then a few MORE older tunes, ect, ect...

 

I would actually be fine with that yes.gif

Thats a great Idea to split them up but they should include all the songs this time around!

 

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QUOTE (losingit2k @ Jun 8 2012, 08:05 PM)
QUOTE (ALifeson85 @ Jun 8 2012, 06:02 PM)
QUOTE (Bastille Night @ Jun 7 2012, 07:56 PM)
Play the first few CA songs about yearning to leave one's upbringing and starting the journey (Caravan/BU2B/CA....discovering the world), then follow with a couple of early Rush songs.

Segue into the Anarchist/Carnies/Halo Effect....things initially seem great, but one soon learns the hazards of life on the road. Next, a few songs from the Rush heyday.

Next, 7 Cities/Wreckers/Headlong (things start to go shitty in your life), followed by a few 90's songs.

Then, BU2B2/Wish Them Well/The Garden...

Exactly. That's what I meant by my original post...I can imagine the possibility of them playing 2 -3 CA songs, then a few older tunes, then the next 2 -3 CA songs, then a few MORE older tunes, ect, ect...

 

I would actually be fine with that yes.gif

Thats a great Idea to split them up but they should include all the songs this time around!

 

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yes.gif trink39.gif

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QUOTE (danielmclark @ Jun 8 2012, 04:04 PM)
QUOTE (The K Man @ Jun 8 2012, 10:27 AM)
QUOTE (danielmclark @ Jun 8 2012, 08:16 AM)
They play the same set every single tour.

Bull shit.

 

Ignoring the 9 S&A songs, 9 of the other 18 songs played on the S&A tour were not played on the previous tour (R30).

 

Ignoring the 2 new songs (Caravan and BU2B), 12 of the 23 songs played on the Time Machine tour were not played on the previous tour (S&A tour).

 

Yes, they have classics that will always be played (Tom Sawyer, YYZ, TSOR, etc.), but they have done a tremendous job of mixing it up in the last decade with playing stuff they hadn't played in a while and throwing diehards a lot of bones in regards to deep cuts.

 

So, take that nonsense somewhere else.

Actually, I'm right in my breakdown. You only have to look at the set lists to see it. So, no... I will not take my bullshit nonsense elsewhere eyesre4.gif

Sorry, but I just broke it down for you, and you are wrong. They do not play the same set every tour.

 

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QUOTE (losingit2k @ Jun 8 2012, 01:53 PM)
You know, I really don't understand the thought patterns of some fans sometimes. Its a concept album. Not playing the entire work live on tour is like:

Pink Floyd not performing The Wall Live!

Queensryche not performing Operation Mindcrime Live!

Fates Warning not performing A Pleasant Shade of Grey Live!

Dream Theater not performing Scenes from a Memory Live!

Is that really what we want? For Rush to retire and never have a representation of one of their finest works Live in its Entirety?

Really? Clockwork Angels is Epic! Wake up and smell the Angels that have fallen out of Heaven and landed on your face!

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I see what you're saying, but by the same reasoning, shouldn't it be unthinkable to not play 2112 (song, not album) in its entirety? It's a conceptual piece, and it wold follow that it should never be truncated. Despite that, it's only been played in full on the TFE tour - 1 time in 36 years. I'm just noting that sometimes bands don't do the full concept pieces live.

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QUOTE (The K Man @ Jun 8 2012, 11:14 PM)
QUOTE (danielmclark @ Jun 8 2012, 04:04 PM)
QUOTE (The K Man @ Jun 8 2012, 10:27 AM)
QUOTE (danielmclark @ Jun 8 2012, 08:16 AM)
They play the same set every single tour.

Bull shit.

 

Ignoring the 9 S&A songs, 9 of the other 18 songs played on the S&A tour were not played on the previous tour (R30).

 

Ignoring the 2 new songs (Caravan and BU2B), 12 of the 23 songs played on the Time Machine tour were not played on the previous tour (S&A tour).

 

Yes, they have classics that will always be played (Tom Sawyer, YYZ, TSOR, etc.), but they have done a tremendous job of mixing it up in the last decade with playing stuff they hadn't played in a while and throwing diehards a lot of bones in regards to deep cuts.

 

So, take that nonsense somewhere else.

Actually, I'm right in my breakdown. You only have to look at the set lists to see it. So, no... I will not take my bullshit nonsense elsewhere eyesre4.gif

Sorry, but I just broke it down for you, and you are wrong. They do not play the same set every tour.

I didn't say they LITERALLY play the same set every tour. Did you actually read what I wrote back there ore did you stop at that one sentence? Because I explained myself very well if you would just read the fking thing.

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You said they won't play b-side type tracks, and then listed ones that are unlikely to ever be played again, while ignoring the fact that plenty of b-side type tracks/deep cuts (in other words, Rush songs that weren't really popular and/or played on the radio) have been played in the last decade: Between Sun and Moon, Between the Wheels, Circumstances, Mission, Presto, Digital Man, etc. But to acknowledge that won't fit your narrative, right? tongue.gif
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QUOTE (The K Man @ Jun 9 2012, 09:24 AM)
You said they won't play b-side type tracks, and then listed ones that are unlikely to ever be played again, while ignoring the fact that plenty of b-side type tracks/deep cuts (in other words, Rush songs that weren't really popular and/or played on the radio) have been played in the last decade: Between Sun and Moon, Between the Wheels, Circumstances, Mission, Presto, Digital Man, etc. But to acknowledge that won't fit your narrative, right? tongue.gif

Jesus, you're fking pedantic. This is what I said:

QUOTE
A handful of songs from whatever album is out, all the A-list songs (Tom Sawyer, Limelight, TSoR, etc.) and then 2-3 things they either haven't done before (Presto) or haven't done in a while (Distant Early Warning or something like that).
And on a per-tour basis, this is correct. The songs you mentioned fall under the "2-3 things they haven't done before or haven't done in a while" - and if I exaggerated slightly and it's actually 3-4 things, well... that doesn't exactly negate my entire goddamn point.

 

Tell me how many songs they've played on each tour that they never played before, not counting the new material from whatever album they've just put out. Let's start with Time Machine:

 

Presto.

 

THAT'S IT.

 

Your turn.

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Well, that's an unfair standard since the great majority of their songs were played originally back in the day, but if you want to go with what songs were played that had either never been played or not in at least 10 years (which I think is a fair cutoff), we can go with:

 

VT tour: Distant Early Warning, New World Man, The Pass, Between Sun and Moon, By-Tor, Cygnus X-1 and Working Man (7)

 

R30 tour: Between the Wheels, Mystic Rhythms and Xanadu (3) - this tour is obviously the one exception of the last four, as this set WAS fairly similar to the VT set list, with the exception being a handful of covers and songs like BTW, Mystic Rhythms, Force Ten, Xanadu and Animate, plus the R30 Overture

 

S&A tour: Digital Man, Entre Nous, Mission, Circumstances, Witch Hunt and A Passage to Bangkok (6)

 

TM tour: Time Stand Still, Presto, Stick It Out, Marathon and The Camera Eye (5)

 

Now, 10 years could be considered an arbitary cutoff, but I think when you factor in the must-play songs (Tom Sawyer, The Spirt of Radio, etc.), and the amount of new songs they often play, I'd say they have done a pretty damn good job in the last 10 years of pulling out some deep cuts and/or songs that hadn't been played in a while or even never (the R30 tour being the exeption). There is simply no way for Rush to change their set from top to bottom from tour to tour.

 

But we can agree to disagree on this. trink39.gif

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QUOTE (The K Man @ Jun 9 2012, 10:13 AM)
Well, that's an unfair standard since the great majority of their songs were played originally back in the day, but if you want to go with what songs were played that had either never been played or not in at least 10 years (which I think is a fair cutoff), we can go with:

VT tour: Distant Early Warning, New World Man, The Pass, Between Sun and Moon, By-Tor, Cygnus X-1 and Working Man (7)

R30 tour: Between the Wheels, Mystic Rhythms and Xanadu (3) - this tour is obviously the one exception of the last four, as this set WAS fairly similar to the VT set list, with the exception being a handful of covers and songs like BTW, Mystic Rhythms, Force Ten, Xanadu and Animate, plus the R30 Overture

S&A tour: Digital Man, Entre Nous, Mission, Circumstances, Witch Hunt and A Passage to Bangkok (6)

TM tour: Time Stand Still, Presto, Stick It Out, Marathon and The Camera Eye (5)

Now, 10 years could be considered an arbitary cutoff, but I think when you factor in the must-play songs (Tom Sawyer, The Spirt of Radio, etc.), and the amount of new songs they often play, I'd say they have done a pretty damn good job in the last 10 years of pulling out some deep cuts and/or songs that hadn't been played in a while or even never (the R30 tour being the exeption). There is simply no way for Rush to change their set from top to bottom from tour to tour.

But we can agree to disagree on this. trink39.gif

We can agree to disagree, but I maintain that the core of my argument is that they don't need to keep devoting over half the set list to the same songs they've been playing for 20-30 years. The show will survive the lack of Limelight if it means playing something they haven't busted out before. We can do without Subdivisions for the 3,000th time if it means playing something we haven't heard before, or haven't heard in 20 years. But they won't do that, because that's not the kind of risk they want to take. They play it safe with the set list so as not to offend the delicate sensibilities of the fans that only show up to hear Tom Sawyer eyesre4.gif

 

There are fans who are young enough that they didn't attend their first Rush show until Test For Echo or Vapor Trails, but now they've seen a few tours - maybe they don't care to hear Spirit of Radio for the fifth time, but would like to hear something that hasn't been played since the 80's or early 90's, like Show Don't Tell or something.

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QUOTE (ALifeson85 @ Jun 5 2012, 12:06 PM)
Is how vocally demanding it would be for Geddy. First off, there are NO instrumentals on CA...so for Geddy to have to sing for over and hour straight, esp. since some of the new songs DO sound a bit vocally demanding, would KILL his voice. ph34r.gif
I can MAYBE see them splitting up the entire album, in 2 - 3 song suites throughout the show, with older songs and instrumentals in between...but for them to perform the ENTIRE album in one straight shot...like I sayed - there is no way Geddy would be able to handle that, imo. no.gif

Still though - I'm LOVING the new album, and I'm sure we will still be hearing LOTS of stuff from CA on the upcoming tour yes.gif

I love the album and I hope you're right.

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QUOTE (danielmclark @ Jun 9 2012, 11:44 AM)
QUOTE (The K Man @ Jun 9 2012, 10:13 AM)
Well, that's an unfair standard since the great majority of their songs were played originally back in the day, but if you want to go with what songs were played that had either never been played or not in at least 10 years (which I think is a fair cutoff), we can go with:

VT tour: Distant Early Warning, New World Man, The Pass, Between Sun and Moon, By-Tor, Cygnus X-1 and Working Man (7)

R30 tour: Between the Wheels, Mystic Rhythms and Xanadu (3) - this tour is obviously the one exception of the last four, as this set WAS fairly similar to the VT set list, with the exception being a handful of covers and songs like BTW, Mystic Rhythms, Force Ten, Xanadu and Animate, plus the R30 Overture

S&A tour: Digital Man, Entre Nous, Mission, Circumstances, Witch Hunt and A Passage to Bangkok (6)

TM tour: Time Stand Still, Presto, Stick It Out, Marathon and The Camera Eye (5)

Now, 10 years could be considered an arbitary cutoff, but I think when you factor in the must-play songs (Tom Sawyer, The Spirt of Radio, etc.), and the amount of new songs they often play, I'd say they have done a pretty damn good job in the last 10 years of pulling out some deep cuts and/or songs that hadn't been played in a while or even never (the R30 tour being the exeption).  There is simply no way for Rush to change their set from top to bottom from tour to tour. 

But we can agree to disagree on this.  trink39.gif

We can agree to disagree, but I maintain that the core of my argument is that they don't need to keep devoting over half the set list to the same songs they've been playing for 20-30 years. The show will survive the lack of Limelight if it means playing something they haven't busted out before. We can do without Subdivisions for the 3,000th time if it means playing something we haven't heard before, or haven't heard in 20 years. But they won't do that, because that's not the kind of risk they want to take. They play it safe with the set list so as not to offend the delicate sensibilities of the fans that only show up to hear Tom Sawyer eyesre4.gif

 

There are fans who are young enough that they didn't attend their first Rush show until Test For Echo or Vapor Trails, but now they've seen a few tours - maybe they don't care to hear Spirit of Radio for the fifth time, but would like to hear something that hasn't been played since the 80's or early 90's, like Show Don't Tell or something.

In fairness, w/o Limelight, Subdivisions, Spirt, TS... Those songs are part of the reason RUSH still exists.

 

W/o the the classics, it ain't a RUSH show.

 

How many diehards (I only want B sides and CA fans) are members on this forum?

 

What't the combined attendance of all the shows on the tour - minus 1% for people who attend multiple shows?

 

 

It's pretty selfish to want the show to be just for the diehard RUSH 'nerds'.

 

It's a ROCK show and we want to hear Classic Rock + some great new music.

 

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Did this while ago.

 

 

Time Machine Tour (24 songs):

 

Shared songs (S&A Tour): 11/24 (46%)

Shared songs (R30 Tour): 9/24 (38%)

Shared songs (VT Tour): 9/24 (38%)

 

Three tours together 15/24 songs (63%)

 

Songs not played in last three tours: 9/24 (37%)

 

Time Stand Still (94'), Presto (never), Stick It Out (97'),

Faithless (never), BU2B (new song), Marathon (90'),

Camera Eye (83'), Caravan (new song), Closer to the Heart (97')

 

New Songs: 2/9 (22%)

Rarely or never played songs: 7/9 (73%)

 

***

 

S&A Tour (31 songs)

 

Shared songs (R30 Tour): 12/31 (38%)

Shared songs (VT Tour): 11/31 (32%)

Shared songs (T4E Tour): 10/31 (32%)

 

Three tours together 15/31 songs (48%)

 

Songs not played in last three tours: 16/31 (52%)

 

Digital Man (83'), Entre Nous (never), Mission (93'),

The Main Monkey Business (new song), The Larger Bowl (new song),

Circumstances (79'), Far Cry (new song), Workin' Them Angels (new song),

Armor and Sword (new song), Spindrift (new song),

The Way the Wind Blows (new song), Maligant Narcissism (new song),

Hope (new song), A Passage to Bangkok (80'), Ghost of a Chance (92'),

Witch Hunt (86')

 

New Songs: 9/16 (56%)

Rarely or never played songs: 7/16 (44%)

 

 

***

 

R30 Tour (29 songs)

 

Shared songs (VT Tour): 17/29 (59%)

Shared songs (T4E Tour): 14/29 (48%)

Shared songs (Ctp Tour): 12/29 (41%)

 

Three tours together 23/29 songs (76%)

 

Songs not played in last three tours: 6/29 (24%)

 

R30 Overture (new song), The Seeker (cover), Between the Wheels (85'),

Heart Full of Soul (cover), Summertime Blues (cover), Crossroads (cover)

 

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^^

Time Machine and S&A, 7 "rarely or never played" songs. That's about what I suggested, more or less. I was off by 2 or 3 when I said 3-4 they haven't done in a while and maybe one they've never played.

 

R30, only 6 songs not played in the previous three tours, and of those 6, four of them were from Feedback, which count as "new" songs. There were only two songs that were "rarely or never played" and one of 'em was a frickin' medley, which I personally don't count. But even counting that... two songs.

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I'll give them a pass for the R30 set list not being that different from the VT set list since it was an anniversary set list, and you generally want to play a lot of your most popular and best songs, many of which were already played on the VT tour, but they have more than made up for it on the tours since.

 

Also, while Time Stand Still might have seemed like a "safe" pick on the TM tour, it hadn't been played in 13 years, and also had never been on any of live video releases, so I totally get why they played it. I still expect The Analog Kid to get similar treatment one of these years (this year, please!).

 

ThinkingBig, I understand that standards must be played, which is why I said it is unrealistic to expect them to ever drop too many of them, but I think they could mix them up a bit.

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QUOTE (danielmclark @ Jun 9 2012, 11:44 AM)
QUOTE (The K Man @ Jun 9 2012, 10:13 AM)
Well, that's an unfair standard since the great majority of their songs were played originally back in the day, but if you want to go with what songs were played that had either never been played or not in at least 10 years (which I think is a fair cutoff), we can go with:

VT tour: Distant Early Warning, New World Man, The Pass, Between Sun and Moon, By-Tor, Cygnus X-1 and Working Man (7)

R30 tour: Between the Wheels, Mystic Rhythms and Xanadu (3) - this tour is obviously the one exception of the last four, as this set WAS fairly similar to the VT set list, with the exception being a handful of covers and songs like BTW, Mystic Rhythms, Force Ten, Xanadu and Animate, plus the R30 Overture

S&A tour: Digital Man, Entre Nous, Mission, Circumstances, Witch Hunt and A Passage to Bangkok (6)

TM tour: Time Stand Still, Presto, Stick It Out, Marathon and The Camera Eye (5)

Now, 10 years could be considered an arbitary cutoff, but I think when you factor in the must-play songs (Tom Sawyer, The Spirt of Radio, etc.), and the amount of new songs they often play, I'd say they have done a pretty damn good job in the last 10 years of pulling out some deep cuts and/or songs that hadn't been played in a while or even never (the R30 tour being the exeption).  There is simply no way for Rush to change their set from top to bottom from tour to tour. 

But we can agree to disagree on this.  trink39.gif

We can agree to disagree, but I maintain that the core of my argument is that they don't need to keep devoting over half the set list to the same songs they've been playing for 20-30 years. The show will survive the lack of Limelight if it means playing something they haven't busted out before. We can do without Subdivisions for the 3,000th time if it means playing something we haven't heard before, or haven't heard in 20 years. But they won't do that, because that's not the kind of risk they want to take. They play it safe with the set list so as not to offend the delicate sensibilities of the fans that only show up to hear Tom Sawyer eyesre4.gif

 

There are fans who are young enough that they didn't attend their first Rush show until Test For Echo or Vapor Trails, but now they've seen a few tours - maybe they don't care to hear Spirit of Radio for the fifth time, but would like to hear something that hasn't been played since the 80's or early 90's, like Show Don't Tell or something.

they don't have the balls to drop a song like subdivisions and play say analog kid or the weapon. i would like to see them surprise us and with something like that.

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I don't think that is true. New World Man was the only song from Signals played on the VT tour, and The Analog Kid was played on the CP tour instead of Subdivisions, so Subdivisions is not an every tour must-play or anything. But it is by far their most popular song from the synth era, so I have no problem with them continuing to play it live.

 

I think some have to remember that even though a radically different set list with mostly deep cuts might look good on paper, being at the shows is a whole different story. Do you want them to drop all of the standards and have their be zero songs that the entire crowd knows really well and gets cheered like crazy? I sure don't. Sure, as much as many of us diehards love the inclusion of rarely or never played tracks, many more do not (probably because they either do not know the song that well or at all). The key is to strike a good balance, and I think that is what the band usually does, by playing the standards they do, the new songs, and then a handful or so of songs that they know the hardcore fans will go nuts over.

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QUOTE (The K Man @ Jun 9 2012, 02:25 PM)
I don't think that is true. New World Man was the only song from Signals played on the VT tour, and The Analog Kid was played on the CP tour instead of Subdivisions, so Subdivisions is not an every tour must-play or anything. But it is by far their most popular song from the synth era, so I have no problem with them continuing to play it live.

I think some have to remember that even though a radically different set list with mostly deep cuts might look good on paper, being at the shows is a whole different story. Do you want them to drop all of the standards and have their be zero songs that the entire crowd knows really well and gets cheered like crazy? I sure don't. Sure, as much as many of us diehards love the inclusion of rarely or never played tracks, many more do not (probably because they either do not know the song that well or at all). The key is to strike a good balance, and I think that is what the band usually does, by playing the standards they do, the new songs, and then a handful or so of songs that they know the hardcore fans will go nuts over.

I don't think it should be radically changed or be 100% deep cuts or anything like that... but they've been so far in the other, safer, direction for so long that it's an exercise in frustration tour after tour hoping that they'll take some risks.

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QUOTE (The K Man @ Jun 9 2012, 03:25 PM)


I think some have to remember that even though a radically different set list with mostly deep cuts might look good on paper, being at the shows is a whole different story.

I have found the deeper cuts to yield some awkward moments...where the diehard fans go nuts, but the collective energy drops way down. Entre Nous was like that. I loved it, personally, but the crowd in general was...meh. But when Subdivisions comes on...the roar is amazing!

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This makes sense...I would love to hear the whole album from start to finish, but it would be demanding. I hope they play most of it.
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QUOTE (danielmclark @ Jun 9 2012, 09:44 AM)
We can agree to disagree, but I maintain that the core of my argument is that they don't need to keep devoting over half the set list to the same songs they've been playing for 20-30 years. The show will survive the lack of Limelight if it means playing something they haven't busted out before. We can do without Subdivisions for the 3,000th time if it means playing something we haven't heard before, or haven't heard in 20 years.

^^^ I agree!

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