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Is it unethical to resell tickets on a fan site...


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I saw this posted on RIAB under one of the tour dates: "I have listed 2 RUSH tickets for 9/24 MN show on StubHub. They are one row (17th & 18th rows of FLR 1 section) and only 2 seat numbers apart, so you'd be very close to a friend if you wanted 2 tickets. They are listed at $211.20 each, so should be easly [sic] to spot if you are interested. Thanks and enjoy the show!"

 

Wow-- what a bargain-- you can pay double face value and you and your friend maybe can shake hands if you really stretched out.

 

IMO, fan sites should not be used to resell tickets above face value. If you've upgraded or have an extra ticket, then use the fan sites to unload your tickets to another fan at cost plus fees only. But don't try to gouge other members of the community (if you think it's clever to price the tickets after a Rush album, then how about $121.12-- and for that price postage should be included).

 

I'll go even further and argue that reselling presale tickets for a profit is flat out unethical. If you are doing that you are part of the problem. It's also likely illegal, since the MT user agreement states, ""The sale or resale of a ticket, through unauthorized partners, for a price in excess of the original purchase price is not permitted."

 

For a brief moment I looked into the possibility of seeing the next two shows after my home venue. I pulled 3rd row lowers on MT for one show and 6th row floor for the other show, MUCH better than what I got for my home venue. But as the seconds to sale ticked away, I knew realistically I couldn't get away from work for a week at that time, so I threw them back. I didn't buy them and resell them on SH. If I had bought them and couldn't go, then I'd try to sell them for face and fees to another fan.

 

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When I have resold tickets, they have been at face value, or less just to get rid of it. Probably because my intention buying the ticket in the first place was to use it, but chose to resell due to other circumstances (could not make show, purchased better ticket at later date).
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If I were reselling a ticket I would not post it on a fan site, but thats just me. It's also up to the moderators/owners of any given site to remove those postings if they so choose.
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I have no problem with people selling extra tickets for a small profit here because they got better seats.

 

By small profit I mean a ticket that costs say $150 with all fees, plus your cost to ship to new owner plus paypal fees, plus say $20 profit for any risk your taking, like paypal reverses the charges or the ticket getting lost and the buyer did not want to pay for insurence. You should probably get that your self and add the fee anyway.

 

MY point is when reselling you are taking a small risk, so a small profit to cover is ok, but not selling on here a $150 ticket for $250, thats not cool.

 

Also, I don't know the legality of this, so that would effect my opinion as well.

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I should add I have resold tickets here twice.

One time I made $15 the other time I lost like $20.

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QUOTE (GeddyLeefan2112 @ May 9 2012, 09:44 AM)
Fans gouging other fans. That's pretty sad.

I'd never resell for a profit... I'd only resell at face value if I managed to find better tix.

Jacking the price of bottled water in a city going through a natural disaster is gouging. Jacking up the price of a ticket you paid for when there are thousands of other seats to choose from is not. If you don't want to pay 3x face value for a front row seat, there are plenty of other seats in the house to choose from - and that's assuming that you can't score front row on your own, which plenty of people do.

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I would have to say is it unethical to sell for a profit, depends on if the board rules allow it. If the rules say no posting of resales of tickets for profit then yes its unethical on here.

 

As for reselling outside this forums, if its legal I would say it is ethical. Our society is based on capitalism. The person buying the ticket is taking a chance on not selling so if he wants to he has a right to resell. Again this is my opinion unless its illegal or if the ticket sellers says you may not resell there tickets.

 

I would say it is unethical to use fan presales to buy tickets and then resell at a profit because this outlet is for fans to see the concert not resellers. If you buy on live nation when seats go on sale to the general public and resell, I have no problem with that.

 

 

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QUOTE (danielmclark @ May 9 2012, 10:56 AM)
QUOTE (GeddyLeefan2112 @ May 9 2012, 09:44 AM)
Fans gouging other fans. That's pretty sad.

I'd never resell for a profit... I'd only resell at face value if I managed to find better tix.

Jacking the price of bottled water in a city going through a natural disaster is gouging. Jacking up the price of a ticket you paid for when there are thousands of other seats to choose from is not. If you don't want to pay 3x face value for a front row seat, there are plenty of other seats in the house to choose from - and that's assuming that you can't score front row on your own, which plenty of people do.

Front row is a little bit different. These aren't front row.

 

That's fine if you want to sell tickets for 3x the face value. I'm saying I never would.

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If I have extra tickets, I always offer them here at face value (plus Ticketbastard fees) - exactly what I paid for them. Tickets should always be offered to other fans for no profit first. Last tour, I had an extra, but nobody here wanted it. I wound up selling on StubHub (I think - don't really recall) for what I paid plus whatever percentage they take, just so I can break even. That's just my opinion.

 

And in most states, reselling tickets is perfectly legal, so long as it isn't a certain percentage over face value. It gets murkier when selling across state lines.

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QUOTE (iglehart @ May 9 2012, 09:59 AM)
I would say it is unethical to use fan presales to buy tickets and then resell at a profit because this outlet is for fans to see the concert not resellers. If you buy on live nation when seats go on sale to the general public and resell, I have no problem with that.

I see what you're getting at, and if the presales were fan-exclusives I might even agree. But the "fan presales" are really nothing more than general sales. How many of us are members of a Rush fan club? What does that even mean anymore? You don't even need to sign up for their mailing list to find out when their presale happens because you can learn about it here, in public. It's not like they're trying to keep it a secret or keep non-fans out... they don't even require a password.

 

Let's say there was an official Rush fan club and each member was given a unique code to redeem during an exclusive presale. If someone were to buy tickets and then resell them under those conditions I still wouldn't have a problem with it, but I would give a lot more credence to the "omg, you're betraying the true fans and gouging them" argument.

 

But as it is, presales are just public sales with a not-so-clever marketing name.

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The policy that you agree to when you buy tickets through the MT presale clearly states that any resale "for a price in excess of the original purchase price is not permitted." It is a public sale, and the tickets are your property, but you abide by conditions when you buy them. Selling them for profit on a resale site violates those conditions.

 

As for the ethics, I guess it depends on what you think a "community" is, and what obligations you have to other members of that community. To me, using this or another Rush forum for profiteering is exploitative.

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QUOTE (kid-gloves @ May 9 2012, 11:51 AM)
The policy that you agree to when you buy tickets through the MT presale clearly states that any resale "for a price in excess of the original purchase price is not permitted." It is a public sale, and the tickets are your property, but you abide by conditions when you buy them. Selling them for profit on a resale site violates those conditions.

As for the ethics, I guess it depends on what you think a "community" is, and what obligations you have to other members of that community. To me, using this or another Rush forum for profiteering is exploitative.

goodpost.gif

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QUOTE (kid-gloves @ May 9 2012, 12:51 PM)
The policy that you agree to when you buy tickets through the MT presale clearly states that any resale "for a price in excess of the original purchase price is not permitted." It is a public sale, and the tickets are your property, but you abide by conditions when you buy them. Selling them for profit on a resale site violates those conditions.

I hope somebody tells StubHub about this rule, then.

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QUOTE (kbomb106 @ May 9 2012, 12:48 PM)
QUOTE (kid-gloves @ May 9 2012, 12:51 PM)
The policy that you agree to when you buy tickets through the MT presale clearly states that any resale "for a price in excess of the original purchase price is not permitted." It is a public sale, and the tickets are your property, but you abide by conditions when you buy them.  Selling them for profit on a resale site violates those conditions.

I hope somebody tells StubHub about this rule, then.

Yeah, right? Man, all those people... all breaking the rules. I wonder what the penalty is.

 

Or how they could possibly enforce it eyesre4.gif

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QUOTE (kbomb106 @ May 9 2012, 01:48 PM)
QUOTE (kid-gloves @ May 9 2012, 12:51 PM)
The policy that you agree to when you buy tickets through the MT presale clearly states that any resale "for a price in excess of the original purchase price is not permitted." It is a public sale, and the tickets are your property, but you abide by conditions when you buy them.  Selling them for profit on a resale site violates those conditions.

I hope somebody tells StubHub about this rule, then.

But, if you are going to scalp , this is the place to get tix from. You will not get ripped off. If your ticket does not get you into the show, you call them and they will have a new ticket waiting for you.

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Dave Matthews Band has a great way of handling this issue: If you buy tickets through the fan site (the Warehouse), you are not allowed to sell the tickets above face. They actually track people down who are selling above face (and lots of Warehouse members bring it to their attention when they see Warehouse tickets for sale above face) ... they then cancel that person's membership.

 

Warehouse allows you to get tickets for multiple shows if you want to, and they use a lottery system ... those who have been members for a long time get preference in the lottery. On 2-3 night stands in a city, at least one of those nights will be completely random, so new members could get front row.

 

Also, they do upgrades on the day of the show. Warehouse pulls random seat numbers and upgrades their tickets -- they actually come to your seats and lead you to your new seats up front. Very cool.

 

I'm not saying Rush needs to do all that ... but how about a true fan club that allows fans to buy seats and only pick up the tickets at Will Call with a direct escort from Will Call to inside the venue? No way you could scalp them then!

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QUOTE (capoetc @ May 9 2012, 04:40 PM)
I'm not saying Rush needs to do all that ... but how about a true fan club that allows fans to buy seats and only pick up the tickets at Will Call with a direct escort from Will Call to inside the venue? No way you could scalp them then!

goodpost.gif

 

Long overdue.

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QUOTE (iluvgeddy05 @ May 9 2012, 10:32 AM)
When I have resold tickets, they have been at face value, or less just to get rid of it. Probably because my intention buying the ticket in the first place was to use it, but chose to resell due to other circumstances (could not make show, purchased better ticket at later date).

I've done this for pretty much everyone of the last few tours...

 

...I'm always trying to upgrade right up to the day of the show.

 

Always offering the seats at face value from fan to fan.

 

 

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