Raise your hand if you've heard all of CA

**GeddyRulz** · May 2, 2012

QUOTE (presto123 @ May 1 2012, 10:46 PM)

QUOTE (WCFIELDS @ May 1 2012, 10:40 PM)

QUOTE (likeclockwork @ May 1 2012, 09:17 PM)

QUOTE (Gedneil Alpeart @ May 1 2012, 09:32 PM)

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ May 1 2012, 09:16 PM)

I think we already have quite a bit of that from likeclockwork who appears to be genuine. The gist of it being that most of the rest of the album will be a lot more melodic and lighter than what we've heard so far:

I've heard most of the album and can confidently say that Clockwork Angels is significantly better than S&A. There's only 1 song I don't particularly like so far. Whether they suit your personal taste or not, the quality to these songs is just way way better than the last couple of albums. These songs are confidently made and don't sound forced at all liked much of the recent material in my opinion. Also, as heavy as the songs that have been released are, many of the remainder are quite the opposite. The album has a very diverse collection of songs. I'll also say that Headlong Flight is not one of the songs in my regular rotation either - but I'm always partial to more melodic and hook-y songs.

Most of the remaining songs sound very different from the three songs that have been released to date. There's a much more melodic side to the album that hasn't been seen yet.

Melodic and lighter....as in bravest face and good news first and faithless or different strings, losing it, mystic rhythms, the pass? Hmmmmm....if many fans are expecting heavy/prog/complex/acrobatic stuff from the rest of CA based on what we have heard so far, how will the general reaction be to "melodic and lighter"?

My guess is it will depend on the strength of song writing, flow, naturalness, and confidence. If the songs are going to be folksy ala SA, a lot of complaining here. But, if more in line with 70s and 80s lighter and melodic, then we may have a winner.

The best I can describe the melodic songs is to say that if you took The Color of Right, How It Is, Out of the Cradle, Faithless & Bravest Face, figured out where they were trying to go but couldn't quite get to and advanced it about 9 stages you'd have what we have on this album. The songs are much richer and not wimpy. They don't sound like old school Rush - they sound very much like modern Rush but simply having gotten where they were trying to go - if that makes any sense.

Ok, I'm scared....

I'm a little concerned after reading that just because How It Is, Out Of The Cradle, and Bravest Face are some of my least fav Rush songs of all time. He did say they advanced 9 stages though.

Agreed. I don't want any more Bravest Face, Good News First, How It Is, etc. Those are the worst tracks on the past couple albums, IMO.

**Lerxster** · May 2, 2012

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ May 2 2012, 08:22 AM)

QUOTE (Lerxster @ May 2 2012, 06:56 AM)

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ May 2 2012, 07:28 AM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ May 1 2012, 10:20 PM)

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ May 1 2012, 07:58 PM)

QUOTE (Gedneil Alpeart @ May 1 2012, 08:32 PM)

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ May 1 2012, 09:16 PM)

I think we already have quite a bit of that from likeclockwork who appears to be genuine. The gist of it being that most of the rest of the album will be a lot more melodic and lighter than what we've heard so far:

I've heard most of the album and can confidently say that Clockwork Angels is significantly better than S&A. There's only 1 song I don't particularly like so far. Whether they suit your personal taste or not, the quality to these songs is just way way better than the last couple of albums. These songs are confidently made and don't sound forced at all liked much of the recent material in my opinion. Also, as heavy as the songs that have been released are, many of the remainder are quite the opposite. The album has a very diverse collection of songs. I'll also say that Headlong Flight is not one of the songs in my regular rotation either - but I'm always partial to more melodic and hook-y songs.

Most of the remaining songs sound very different from the three songs that have been released to date. There's a much more melodic side to the album that hasn't been seen yet.

Melodic and lighter....as in bravest face and good news first and faithless or different strings, losing it, mystic rhythms, the pass? Hmmmmm....if many fans are expecting heavy/prog/complex/acrobatic stuff from the rest of CA based on what we have heard so far, how will the general reaction be to "melodic and lighter"?

My guess is it will depend on the strength of song writing, flow, naturalness, and confidence. If the songs are going to be folksy ala SA, a lot of complaining here. But, if more in line with 70s and 80s lighter and melodic, then we may have a winner.

I made that same point in another thread, I think a lot of people have already convinced themselves that CA is going to be non-stop heaviness and they're going to be upset, or at least surprised.

I'll be thrilled if it's not non-stop heaviness.

Me too but I think we're in the minority, as I said in the other thread it's obvious that most of the excitement around the web from average/casual fans about CA comes purely from the fact that they're convinced the whole album will sound like the 3 songs we've heard, nothing but heavy riffs. When they hear a bunch of light catchy songs in the style of How It Is with strings and some keyboards they're going to be pissed. A whole lot of people are practically expecting a metal album.

I don't know why anyone would expect a full out heavy and/or metal album. I think they've only done that more or less twice.. debut album and Hemispheres.

That's because we're more knowledgeable about the band and this album in particular but go to where a large cross-section of general rock fans have heard the song like on youtube or on other bands' forums and you'll see mostly stuff like "Wow, if the whole album rocks as hard as HF it's going to be awesome! So glad they went back to the heavy stuff!" The overwhelming majority of excitement about CA from non-hardcore (and some hardcore) fans is about how heavy they think it will be.

Alright, I understand what you're saying. I guess I'll say then that if anyone thinks this album will be balls to the wall every track, then they shouldn't be so stupid

**Presto-digitation** · May 2, 2012

QUOTE (Lerxster @ May 2 2012, 08:44 AM)

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ May 2 2012, 08:22 AM)

QUOTE (Lerxster @ May 2 2012, 06:56 AM)

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ May 2 2012, 07:28 AM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ May 1 2012, 10:20 PM)

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ May 1 2012, 07:58 PM)

QUOTE (Gedneil Alpeart @ May 1 2012, 08:32 PM)

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ May 1 2012, 09:16 PM)

I think we already have quite a bit of that from likeclockwork who appears to be genuine. The gist of it being that most of the rest of the album will be a lot more melodic and lighter than what we've heard so far:

I've heard most of the album and can confidently say that Clockwork Angels is significantly better than S&A. There's only 1 song I don't particularly like so far. Whether they suit your personal taste or not, the quality to these songs is just way way better than the last couple of albums. These songs are confidently made and don't sound forced at all liked much of the recent material in my opinion. Also, as heavy as the songs that have been released are, many of the remainder are quite the opposite. The album has a very diverse collection of songs. I'll also say that Headlong Flight is not one of the songs in my regular rotation either - but I'm always partial to more melodic and hook-y songs.

Most of the remaining songs sound very different from the three songs that have been released to date. There's a much more melodic side to the album that hasn't been seen yet.

Melodic and lighter....as in bravest face and good news first and faithless or different strings, losing it, mystic rhythms, the pass? Hmmmmm....if many fans are expecting heavy/prog/complex/acrobatic stuff from the rest of CA based on what we have heard so far, how will the general reaction be to "melodic and lighter"?

My guess is it will depend on the strength of song writing, flow, naturalness, and confidence. If the songs are going to be folksy ala SA, a lot of complaining here. But, if more in line with 70s and 80s lighter and melodic, then we may have a winner.

I made that same point in another thread, I think a lot of people have already convinced themselves that CA is going to be non-stop heaviness and they're going to be upset, or at least surprised.

I'll be thrilled if it's not non-stop heaviness.

Me too but I think we're in the minority, as I said in the other thread it's obvious that most of the excitement around the web from average/casual fans about CA comes purely from the fact that they're convinced the whole album will sound like the 3 songs we've heard, nothing but heavy riffs. When they hear a bunch of light catchy songs in the style of How It Is with strings and some keyboards they're going to be pissed. A whole lot of people are practically expecting a metal album.

I don't know why anyone would expect a full out heavy and/or metal album. I think they've only done that more or less twice.. debut album and Hemispheres.

That's because we're more knowledgeable about the band and this album in particular but go to where a large cross-section of general rock fans have heard the song like on youtube or on other bands' forums and you'll see mostly stuff like "Wow, if the whole album rocks as hard as HF it's going to be awesome! So glad they went back to the heavy stuff!" The overwhelming majority of excitement about CA from non-hardcore (and some hardcore) fans is about how heavy they think it will be.

Alright, I understand what you're saying. I guess I'll say then that if anyone thinks this album will be balls to the wall every track, then they shouldn't be so stupid

I conversely think those that are worried that it sounds "like" those songs can't read either. I think it was a melodic inference and point of reference, not necessarily How It Is II (Electric Boogaloo) or Bravest Face, the sequel.

**GernTheFish** · May 2, 2012

QUOTE (likeclockwork @ May 1 2012, 10:17 PM)

QUOTE (Gedneil Alpeart @ May 1 2012, 09:32 PM)

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ May 1 2012, 09:16 PM)

I think we already have quite a bit of that from likeclockwork who appears to be genuine. The gist of it being that most of the rest of the album will be a lot more melodic and lighter than what we've heard so far:

I've heard most of the album and can confidently say that Clockwork Angels is significantly better than S&A. There's only 1 song I don't particularly like so far. Whether they suit your personal taste or not, the quality to these songs is just way way better than the last couple of albums. These songs are confidently made and don't sound forced at all liked much of the recent material in my opinion. Also, as heavy as the songs that have been released are, many of the remainder are quite the opposite. The album has a very diverse collection of songs. I'll also say that Headlong Flight is not one of the songs in my regular rotation either - but I'm always partial to more melodic and hook-y songs.

Most of the remaining songs sound very different from the three songs that have been released to date. There's a much more melodic side to the album that hasn't been seen yet.

Melodic and lighter....as in bravest face and good news first and faithless or different strings, losing it, mystic rhythms, the pass? Hmmmmm....if many fans are expecting heavy/prog/complex/acrobatic stuff from the rest of CA based on what we have heard so far, how will the general reaction be to "melodic and lighter"?

My guess is it will depend on the strength of song writing, flow, naturalness, and confidence. If the songs are going to be folksy ala SA, a lot of complaining here. But, if more in line with 70s and 80s lighter and melodic, then we may have a winner.

The best I can describe the melodic songs is to say that if you took The Color of Right, How It Is, Out of the Cradle, Faithless & Bravest Face, figured out where they were trying to go but couldn't quite get to and advanced it about 9 stages you'd have what we have on this album. The songs are much richer and not wimpy. They don't sound like old school Rush - they sound very much like modern Rush but simply having gotten where they were trying to go - if that makes any sense.

This is cool, cause I really like aspects of all the older songs you mention but just don't feel they "nailed" any of them. Hopefully CA will have at least a couple gems.

**jesse2112** · May 2, 2012

Is there an instrumental?

**Lerxster** · May 2, 2012

QUOTE (Presto-digitation @ May 2 2012, 09:15 AM)

QUOTE (Lerxster @ May 2 2012, 08:44 AM)

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ May 2 2012, 08:22 AM)

QUOTE (Lerxster @ May 2 2012, 06:56 AM)

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ May 2 2012, 07:28 AM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ May 1 2012, 10:20 PM)

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ May 1 2012, 07:58 PM)

QUOTE (Gedneil Alpeart @ May 1 2012, 08:32 PM)

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ May 1 2012, 09:16 PM)

I think we already have quite a bit of that from likeclockwork who appears to be genuine. The gist of it being that most of the rest of the album will be a lot more melodic and lighter than what we've heard so far:

I've heard most of the album and can confidently say that Clockwork Angels is significantly better than S&A. There's only 1 song I don't particularly like so far. Whether they suit your personal taste or not, the quality to these songs is just way way better than the last couple of albums. These songs are confidently made and don't sound forced at all liked much of the recent material in my opinion. Also, as heavy as the songs that have been released are, many of the remainder are quite the opposite. The album has a very diverse collection of songs. I'll also say that Headlong Flight is not one of the songs in my regular rotation either - but I'm always partial to more melodic and hook-y songs.

Most of the remaining songs sound very different from the three songs that have been released to date. There's a much more melodic side to the album that hasn't been seen yet.

Melodic and lighter....as in bravest face and good news first and faithless or different strings, losing it, mystic rhythms, the pass? Hmmmmm....if many fans are expecting heavy/prog/complex/acrobatic stuff from the rest of CA based on what we have heard so far, how will the general reaction be to "melodic and lighter"?

My guess is it will depend on the strength of song writing, flow, naturalness, and confidence. If the songs are going to be folksy ala SA, a lot of complaining here. But, if more in line with 70s and 80s lighter and melodic, then we may have a winner.

I made that same point in another thread, I think a lot of people have already convinced themselves that CA is going to be non-stop heaviness and they're going to be upset, or at least surprised.

I'll be thrilled if it's not non-stop heaviness.

Me too but I think we're in the minority, as I said in the other thread it's obvious that most of the excitement around the web from average/casual fans about CA comes purely from the fact that they're convinced the whole album will sound like the 3 songs we've heard, nothing but heavy riffs. When they hear a bunch of light catchy songs in the style of How It Is with strings and some keyboards they're going to be pissed. A whole lot of people are practically expecting a metal album.

I don't know why anyone would expect a full out heavy and/or metal album. I think they've only done that more or less twice.. debut album and Hemispheres.

That's because we're more knowledgeable about the band and this album in particular but go to where a large cross-section of general rock fans have heard the song like on youtube or on other bands' forums and you'll see mostly stuff like "Wow, if the whole album rocks as hard as HF it's going to be awesome! So glad they went back to the heavy stuff!" The overwhelming majority of excitement about CA from non-hardcore (and some hardcore) fans is about how heavy they think it will be.

Alright, I understand what you're saying. I guess I'll say then that if anyone thinks this album will be balls to the wall every track, then they shouldn't be so stupid

I conversely think those that are worried that it sounds "like" those songs can't read either. I think it was a melodic inference and point of reference, not necessarily How It Is II (Electric Boogaloo) or Bravest Face, the sequel.

Yes. And I think it's Bravest Face II (More Braver).

**snowdog2112** · May 2, 2012

QUOTE (Presto-digitation @ May 2 2012, 08:15 AM)

QUOTE (Lerxster @ May 2 2012, 08:44 AM)

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ May 2 2012, 08:22 AM)

QUOTE (Lerxster @ May 2 2012, 06:56 AM)

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ May 2 2012, 07:28 AM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ May 1 2012, 10:20 PM)

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ May 1 2012, 07:58 PM)

QUOTE (Gedneil Alpeart @ May 1 2012, 08:32 PM)

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ May 1 2012, 09:16 PM)

I think we already have quite a bit of that from likeclockwork who appears to be genuine. The gist of it being that most of the rest of the album will be a lot more melodic and lighter than what we've heard so far:

I've heard most of the album and can confidently say that Clockwork Angels is significantly better than S&A. There's only 1 song I don't particularly like so far. Whether they suit your personal taste or not, the quality to these songs is just way way better than the last couple of albums. These songs are confidently made and don't sound forced at all liked much of the recent material in my opinion. Also, as heavy as the songs that have been released are, many of the remainder are quite the opposite. The album has a very diverse collection of songs. I'll also say that Headlong Flight is not one of the songs in my regular rotation either - but I'm always partial to more melodic and hook-y songs.

Most of the remaining songs sound very different from the three songs that have been released to date. There's a much more melodic side to the album that hasn't been seen yet.

Melodic and lighter....as in bravest face and good news first and faithless or different strings, losing it, mystic rhythms, the pass? Hmmmmm....if many fans are expecting heavy/prog/complex/acrobatic stuff from the rest of CA based on what we have heard so far, how will the general reaction be to "melodic and lighter"?

My guess is it will depend on the strength of song writing, flow, naturalness, and confidence. If the songs are going to be folksy ala SA, a lot of complaining here. But, if more in line with 70s and 80s lighter and melodic, then we may have a winner.

I made that same point in another thread, I think a lot of people have already convinced themselves that CA is going to be non-stop heaviness and they're going to be upset, or at least surprised.

I'll be thrilled if it's not non-stop heaviness.

Me too but I think we're in the minority, as I said in the other thread it's obvious that most of the excitement around the web from average/casual fans about CA comes purely from the fact that they're convinced the whole album will sound like the 3 songs we've heard, nothing but heavy riffs. When they hear a bunch of light catchy songs in the style of How It Is with strings and some keyboards they're going to be pissed. A whole lot of people are practically expecting a metal album.

I don't know why anyone would expect a full out heavy and/or metal album. I think they've only done that more or less twice.. debut album and Hemispheres.

That's because we're more knowledgeable about the band and this album in particular but go to where a large cross-section of general rock fans have heard the song like on youtube or on other bands' forums and you'll see mostly stuff like "Wow, if the whole album rocks as hard as HF it's going to be awesome! So glad they went back to the heavy stuff!" The overwhelming majority of excitement about CA from non-hardcore (and some hardcore) fans is about how heavy they think it will be.

Alright, I understand what you're saying. I guess I'll say then that if anyone thinks this album will be balls to the wall every track, then they shouldn't be so stupid

I conversely think those that are worried that it sounds "like" those songs can't read either. I think it was a melodic inference and point of reference, not necessarily How It Is II (Electric Boogaloo) or Bravest Face, the sequel.

I think for most of the people I'm talking about the quality of those songs is irrelevant. No matter how good the new mellower songs are those people are going to say they suck simply because they're melodic and "mid-tempo". They're in it for the adrenaline rush. There's nothing wrong with that if that's only what you like, my point is simply that there's going to be a lot of busted expectations come release time.

**rushgoober** · May 2, 2012

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ May 2 2012, 06:22 AM)

QUOTE (Lerxster @ May 2 2012, 06:56 AM)

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ May 2 2012, 07:28 AM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ May 1 2012, 10:20 PM)

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ May 1 2012, 07:58 PM)

QUOTE (Gedneil Alpeart @ May 1 2012, 08:32 PM)

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ May 1 2012, 09:16 PM)

I think we already have quite a bit of that from likeclockwork who appears to be genuine. The gist of it being that most of the rest of the album will be a lot more melodic and lighter than what we've heard so far:

I've heard most of the album and can confidently say that Clockwork Angels is significantly better than S&A. There's only 1 song I don't particularly like so far. Whether they suit your personal taste or not, the quality to these songs is just way way better than the last couple of albums. These songs are confidently made and don't sound forced at all liked much of the recent material in my opinion. Also, as heavy as the songs that have been released are, many of the remainder are quite the opposite. The album has a very diverse collection of songs. I'll also say that Headlong Flight is not one of the songs in my regular rotation either - but I'm always partial to more melodic and hook-y songs.

Most of the remaining songs sound very different from the three songs that have been released to date. There's a much more melodic side to the album that hasn't been seen yet.

Melodic and lighter....as in bravest face and good news first and faithless or different strings, losing it, mystic rhythms, the pass? Hmmmmm....if many fans are expecting heavy/prog/complex/acrobatic stuff from the rest of CA based on what we have heard so far, how will the general reaction be to "melodic and lighter"?

My guess is it will depend on the strength of song writing, flow, naturalness, and confidence. If the songs are going to be folksy ala SA, a lot of complaining here. But, if more in line with 70s and 80s lighter and melodic, then we may have a winner.

I made that same point in another thread, I think a lot of people have already convinced themselves that CA is going to be non-stop heaviness and they're going to be upset, or at least surprised.

I'll be thrilled if it's not non-stop heaviness.

Me too but I think we're in the minority, as I said in the other thread it's obvious that most of the excitement around the web from average/casual fans about CA comes purely from the fact that they're convinced the whole album will sound like the 3 songs we've heard, nothing but heavy riffs. When they hear a bunch of light catchy songs in the style of How It Is with strings and some keyboards they're going to be pissed. A whole lot of people are practically expecting a metal album.

I don't know why anyone would expect a full out heavy and/or metal album. I think they've only done that more or less twice.. debut album and Hemispheres.

That's because we're more knowledgeable about the band and this album in particular but go to where a large cross-section of general rock fans have heard the song like on youtube or on other bands' forums and you'll see mostly stuff like "Wow, if the whole album rocks as hard as HF it's going to be awesome! So glad they went back to the heavy stuff!" The overwhelming majority of excitement about CA from non-hardcore (and some hardcore) fans is about how heavy they think it will be.

I honestly can't fathom when/why this shift happened. They've been almost nothing but heavy since Counterparts, with a few exceptions. Even S&A was mostly very heavy songs (I personally don't equate speed with heaviness). Prior to that, Rush was never about releasing relentlessly heavy albums - there was always a lot of light and shade mixed together.

Someone even mentioned the first album as being one of the most heavy. Maybe it was, but it also had a lot of melody and really CATCHY songs, and those elements for me are a large part of what makes Rush great, not just heavy metal riffs or pounding relentlessness, but the whole package. Heavy is completely fine if you can also make a song catchy and have melody (i.e., memorable), but to want or expect them to be in your face heaviness (and I guess what people also want is high speed songs after some of S&A) seems to have little to do with what Rush is about as far as I'm concerned. Or maybe that's who they are now and the fan base has really changed?

Almost every album people say Rush is BACK, as if they went somewhere. I think maybe people are still rebelling against the keyboard era, or the "thin" sound and more poppy material of Presto & RTB, but if you look honestly at where they've been from CP through the few songs we've heard on HF, the newer music doesn't sound very much like who they were from 1974-1981 to me at all. If they were really back from that, they'd be adding in some keyboards and going back to more melodic and spacious prog rock and catchy shorter songs - they haven't done that in many years.

**Gedneil Alpeart** · May 2, 2012

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ May 2 2012, 09:39 AM)

QUOTE (Presto-digitation @ May 2 2012, 08:15 AM)

QUOTE (Lerxster @ May 2 2012, 08:44 AM)

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ May 2 2012, 08:22 AM)

QUOTE (Lerxster @ May 2 2012, 06:56 AM)

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ May 2 2012, 07:28 AM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ May 1 2012, 10:20 PM)

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ May 1 2012, 07:58 PM)

QUOTE (Gedneil Alpeart @ May 1 2012, 08:32 PM)

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ May 1 2012, 09:16 PM)

I think we already have quite a bit of that from likeclockwork who appears to be genuine. The gist of it being that most of the rest of the album will be a lot more melodic and lighter than what we've heard so far:

I've heard most of the album and can confidently say that Clockwork Angels is significantly better than S&A. There's only 1 song I don't particularly like so far. Whether they suit your personal taste or not, the quality to these songs is just way way better than the last couple of albums. These songs are confidently made and don't sound forced at all liked much of the recent material in my opinion. Also, as heavy as the songs that have been released are, many of the remainder are quite the opposite. The album has a very diverse collection of songs. I'll also say that Headlong Flight is not one of the songs in my regular rotation either - but I'm always partial to more melodic and hook-y songs.

Most of the remaining songs sound very different from the three songs that have been released to date. There's a much more melodic side to the album that hasn't been seen yet.

Melodic and lighter....as in bravest face and good news first and faithless or different strings, losing it, mystic rhythms, the pass? Hmmmmm....if many fans are expecting heavy/prog/complex/acrobatic stuff from the rest of CA based on what we have heard so far, how will the general reaction be to "melodic and lighter"?

My guess is it will depend on the strength of song writing, flow, naturalness, and confidence. If the songs are going to be folksy ala SA, a lot of complaining here. But, if more in line with 70s and 80s lighter and melodic, then we may have a winner.

I made that same point in another thread, I think a lot of people have already convinced themselves that CA is going to be non-stop heaviness and they're going to be upset, or at least surprised.

I'll be thrilled if it's not non-stop heaviness.

Me too but I think we're in the minority, as I said in the other thread it's obvious that most of the excitement around the web from average/casual fans about CA comes purely from the fact that they're convinced the whole album will sound like the 3 songs we've heard, nothing but heavy riffs. When they hear a bunch of light catchy songs in the style of How It Is with strings and some keyboards they're going to be pissed. A whole lot of people are practically expecting a metal album.

I don't know why anyone would expect a full out heavy and/or metal album. I think they've only done that more or less twice.. debut album and Hemispheres.

That's because we're more knowledgeable about the band and this album in particular but go to where a large cross-section of general rock fans have heard the song like on youtube or on other bands' forums and you'll see mostly stuff like "Wow, if the whole album rocks as hard as HF it's going to be awesome! So glad they went back to the heavy stuff!" The overwhelming majority of excitement about CA from non-hardcore (and some hardcore) fans is about how heavy they think it will be.

Alright, I understand what you're saying. I guess I'll say then that if anyone thinks this album will be balls to the wall every track, then they shouldn't be so stupid

I conversely think those that are worried that it sounds "like" those songs can't read either. I think it was a melodic inference and point of reference, not necessarily How It Is II (Electric Boogaloo) or Bravest Face, the sequel.

I think for most of the people I'm talking about the quality of those songs is irrelevant. No matter how good the new mellower songs are those people are going to say they suck simply because they're melodic and "mid-tempo". They're in it for the adrenaline rush. There's nothing wrong with that if that's only what you like, my point is simply that there's going to be a lot of busted expectations come release time.

No matter what kind of album Rush would put out at this stage, even MP part 2, there are always going to be busted expectatiins, criticism, negative reviews, etc simply because Rush fans are so diverse in musical taste, keep comparing newer stuff to older material, and somtimes have unrealistic expectations of Rush fulfilling their fantasy album wishes. Every artist eventually competes with themselves from a fan's perspective and it happens more the longer the career.

**Pound of Obscure** · May 2, 2012

QUOTE (CrossedSignals @ May 1 2012, 11:37 PM)

QUOTE (likeclockwork @ May 1 2012, 10:17 PM)

QUOTE (Gedneil Alpeart @ May 1 2012, 09:32 PM)

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ May 1 2012, 09:16 PM)

I think we already have quite a bit of that from likeclockwork who appears to be genuine. The gist of it being that most of the rest of the album will be a lot more melodic and lighter than what we've heard so far:

I've heard most of the album and can confidently say that Clockwork Angels is significantly better than S&A. There's only 1 song I don't particularly like so far. Whether they suit your personal taste or not, the quality to these songs is just way way better than the last couple of albums. These songs are confidently made and don't sound forced at all liked much of the recent material in my opinion. Also, as heavy as the songs that have been released are, many of the remainder are quite the opposite. The album has a very diverse collection of songs. I'll also say that Headlong Flight is not one of the songs in my regular rotation either - but I'm always partial to more melodic and hook-y songs.

Most of the remaining songs sound very different from the three songs that have been released to date. There's a much more melodic side to the album that hasn't been seen yet.

Melodic and lighter....as in bravest face and good news first and faithless or different strings, losing it, mystic rhythms, the pass? Hmmmmm....if many fans are expecting heavy/prog/complex/acrobatic stuff from the rest of CA based on what we have heard so far, how will the general reaction be to "melodic and lighter"?

My guess is it will depend on the strength of song writing, flow, naturalness, and confidence. If the songs are going to be folksy ala SA, a lot of complaining here. But, if more in line with 70s and 80s lighter and melodic, then we may have a winner.

The best I can describe the melodic songs is to say that if you took The Color of Right, How It Is, Out of the Cradle, Faithless & Bravest Face, figured out where they were trying to go but couldn't quite get to and advanced it about 9 stages you'd have what we have on this album. The songs are much richer and not wimpy. They don't sound like old school Rush - they sound very much like modern Rush but simply having gotten where they were trying to go - if that makes any sense.

So, they sound like five of the worst songs off Rush's last three albums, but nine times better.

I'm not sure if that's gonna be really great or just suck nine times harder.

Yep, that's where I am on this description.

**Gedneil Alpeart** · May 2, 2012

QUOTE (Pound of Obscure @ May 2 2012, 09:48 AM)

QUOTE (CrossedSignals @ May 1 2012, 11:37 PM)

QUOTE (likeclockwork @ May 1 2012, 10:17 PM)

QUOTE (Gedneil Alpeart @ May 1 2012, 09:32 PM)

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ May 1 2012, 09:16 PM)

I think we already have quite a bit of that from likeclockwork who appears to be genuine. The gist of it being that most of the rest of the album will be a lot more melodic and lighter than what we've heard so far:

I've heard most of the album and can confidently say that Clockwork Angels is significantly better than S&A. There's only 1 song I don't particularly like so far. Whether they suit your personal taste or not, the quality to these songs is just way way better than the last couple of albums. These songs are confidently made and don't sound forced at all liked much of the recent material in my opinion. Also, as heavy as the songs that have been released are, many of the remainder are quite the opposite. The album has a very diverse collection of songs. I'll also say that Headlong Flight is not one of the songs in my regular rotation either - but I'm always partial to more melodic and hook-y songs.

Most of the remaining songs sound very different from the three songs that have been released to date. There's a much more melodic side to the album that hasn't been seen yet.

Melodic and lighter....as in bravest face and good news first and faithless or different strings, losing it, mystic rhythms, the pass? Hmmmmm....if many fans are expecting heavy/prog/complex/acrobatic stuff from the rest of CA based on what we have heard so far, how will the general reaction be to "melodic and lighter"?

My guess is it will depend on the strength of song writing, flow, naturalness, and confidence. If the songs are going to be folksy ala SA, a lot of complaining here. But, if more in line with 70s and 80s lighter and melodic, then we may have a winner.

The best I can describe the melodic songs is to say that if you took The Color of Right, How It Is, Out of the Cradle, Faithless & Bravest Face, figured out where they were trying to go but couldn't quite get to and advanced it about 9 stages you'd have what we have on this album. The songs are much richer and not wimpy. They don't sound like old school Rush - they sound very much like modern Rush but simply having gotten where they were trying to go - if that makes any sense.

So, they sound like five of the worst songs off Rush's last three albums, but nine times better.

I'm not sure if that's gonna be really great or just suck nine times harder.

Yep, that's where I am on this description.

Let's not pre judge the album too much now.

**Pound of Obscure** · May 2, 2012

QUOTE (Gedneil Alpeart @ May 2 2012, 09:50 AM)

QUOTE (Pound of Obscure @ May 2 2012, 09:48 AM)

QUOTE (CrossedSignals @ May 1 2012, 11:37 PM)

QUOTE (likeclockwork @ May 1 2012, 10:17 PM)

QUOTE (Gedneil Alpeart @ May 1 2012, 09:32 PM)

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ May 1 2012, 09:16 PM)

I think we already have quite a bit of that from likeclockwork who appears to be genuine. The gist of it being that most of the rest of the album will be a lot more melodic and lighter than what we've heard so far:

I've heard most of the album and can confidently say that Clockwork Angels is significantly better than S&A. There's only 1 song I don't particularly like so far. Whether they suit your personal taste or not, the quality to these songs is just way way better than the last couple of albums. These songs are confidently made and don't sound forced at all liked much of the recent material in my opinion. Also, as heavy as the songs that have been released are, many of the remainder are quite the opposite. The album has a very diverse collection of songs. I'll also say that Headlong Flight is not one of the songs in my regular rotation either - but I'm always partial to more melodic and hook-y songs.

Most of the remaining songs sound very different from the three songs that have been released to date. There's a much more melodic side to the album that hasn't been seen yet.

Melodic and lighter....as in bravest face and good news first and faithless or different strings, losing it, mystic rhythms, the pass? Hmmmmm....if many fans are expecting heavy/prog/complex/acrobatic stuff from the rest of CA based on what we have heard so far, how will the general reaction be to "melodic and lighter"?

My guess is it will depend on the strength of song writing, flow, naturalness, and confidence. If the songs are going to be folksy ala SA, a lot of complaining here. But, if more in line with 70s and 80s lighter and melodic, then we may have a winner.

The best I can describe the melodic songs is to say that if you took The Color of Right, How It Is, Out of the Cradle, Faithless & Bravest Face, figured out where they were trying to go but couldn't quite get to and advanced it about 9 stages you'd have what we have on this album. The songs are much richer and not wimpy. They don't sound like old school Rush - they sound very much like modern Rush but simply having gotten where they were trying to go - if that makes any sense.

So, they sound like five of the worst songs off Rush's last three albums, but nine times better.

I'm not sure if that's gonna be really great or just suck nine times harder.

Yep, that's where I am on this description.

Let's not pre judge the album too much now.

No, no. Melodic is great. No problem with that. Doesn't even have to be as heavy as the first three. I'm all for the ups and downs, mood changes. That's all good.

Bravest Face however, NOT GOOD. The Color of Right, NOT GOOD. 9 stages of advancement won't help those.

Jacob's Ladder had parts that rocked heavy, parts that didn't. But it was all good. Out of the Cradle can't be fixed.

**snowdog2112** · May 2, 2012

QUOTE (Gedneil Alpeart @ May 2 2012, 08:47 AM)

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ May 2 2012, 09:39 AM)

QUOTE (Presto-digitation @ May 2 2012, 08:15 AM)

QUOTE (Lerxster @ May 2 2012, 08:44 AM)

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ May 2 2012, 08:22 AM)

QUOTE (Lerxster @ May 2 2012, 06:56 AM)

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ May 2 2012, 07:28 AM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ May 1 2012, 10:20 PM)

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ May 1 2012, 07:58 PM)

QUOTE (Gedneil Alpeart @ May 1 2012, 08:32 PM)

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ May 1 2012, 09:16 PM)

I think we already have quite a bit of that from likeclockwork who appears to be genuine. The gist of it being that most of the rest of the album will be a lot more melodic and lighter than what we've heard so far:

I've heard most of the album and can confidently say that Clockwork Angels is significantly better than S&A. There's only 1 song I don't particularly like so far. Whether they suit your personal taste or not, the quality to these songs is just way way better than the last couple of albums. These songs are confidently made and don't sound forced at all liked much of the recent material in my opinion. Also, as heavy as the songs that have been released are, many of the remainder are quite the opposite. The album has a very diverse collection of songs. I'll also say that Headlong Flight is not one of the songs in my regular rotation either - but I'm always partial to more melodic and hook-y songs.

Most of the remaining songs sound very different from the three songs that have been released to date. There's a much more melodic side to the album that hasn't been seen yet.

Melodic and lighter....as in bravest face and good news first and faithless or different strings, losing it, mystic rhythms, the pass? Hmmmmm....if many fans are expecting heavy/prog/complex/acrobatic stuff from the rest of CA based on what we have heard so far, how will the general reaction be to "melodic and lighter"?

My guess is it will depend on the strength of song writing, flow, naturalness, and confidence. If the songs are going to be folksy ala SA, a lot of complaining here. But, if more in line with 70s and 80s lighter and melodic, then we may have a winner.

I made that same point in another thread, I think a lot of people have already convinced themselves that CA is going to be non-stop heaviness and they're going to be upset, or at least surprised.

I'll be thrilled if it's not non-stop heaviness.

Me too but I think we're in the minority, as I said in the other thread it's obvious that most of the excitement around the web from average/casual fans about CA comes purely from the fact that they're convinced the whole album will sound like the 3 songs we've heard, nothing but heavy riffs. When they hear a bunch of light catchy songs in the style of How It Is with strings and some keyboards they're going to be pissed. A whole lot of people are practically expecting a metal album.

I don't know why anyone would expect a full out heavy and/or metal album. I think they've only done that more or less twice.. debut album and Hemispheres.

That's because we're more knowledgeable about the band and this album in particular but go to where a large cross-section of general rock fans have heard the song like on youtube or on other bands' forums and you'll see mostly stuff like "Wow, if the whole album rocks as hard as HF it's going to be awesome! So glad they went back to the heavy stuff!" The overwhelming majority of excitement about CA from non-hardcore (and some hardcore) fans is about how heavy they think it will be.

Alright, I understand what you're saying. I guess I'll say then that if anyone thinks this album will be balls to the wall every track, then they shouldn't be so stupid

I conversely think those that are worried that it sounds "like" those songs can't read either. I think it was a melodic inference and point of reference, not necessarily How It Is II (Electric Boogaloo) or Bravest Face, the sequel.

I think for most of the people I'm talking about the quality of those songs is irrelevant. No matter how good the new mellower songs are those people are going to say they suck simply because they're melodic and "mid-tempo". They're in it for the adrenaline rush. There's nothing wrong with that if that's only what you like, my point is simply that there's going to be a lot of busted expectations come release time.

No matter what kind of album Rush would put out at this stage, even MP part 2, there are always going to be busted expectatiins, criticism, negative reviews, etc simply because Rush fans are so diverse in musical taste, keep comparing newer stuff to older material, and somtimes have unrealistic expectations of Rush fulfilling their fantasy album wishes. Every artist eventually competes with themselves from a fan's perspective and it happens more the longer the career.

Very true, I even intended to include that in my earlier post but forgot before I hit enter.

**snowdog2112** · May 2, 2012

QUOTE (rushgoober @ May 2 2012, 08:44 AM)

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ May 2 2012, 06:22 AM)

QUOTE (Lerxster @ May 2 2012, 06:56 AM)

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ May 2 2012, 07:28 AM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ May 1 2012, 10:20 PM)

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ May 1 2012, 07:58 PM)

QUOTE (Gedneil Alpeart @ May 1 2012, 08:32 PM)

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ May 1 2012, 09:16 PM)

I think we already have quite a bit of that from likeclockwork who appears to be genuine. The gist of it being that most of the rest of the album will be a lot more melodic and lighter than what we've heard so far:

I've heard most of the album and can confidently say that Clockwork Angels is significantly better than S&A. There's only 1 song I don't particularly like so far. Whether they suit your personal taste or not, the quality to these songs is just way way better than the last couple of albums. These songs are confidently made and don't sound forced at all liked much of the recent material in my opinion. Also, as heavy as the songs that have been released are, many of the remainder are quite the opposite. The album has a very diverse collection of songs. I'll also say that Headlong Flight is not one of the songs in my regular rotation either - but I'm always partial to more melodic and hook-y songs.

Most of the remaining songs sound very different from the three songs that have been released to date. There's a much more melodic side to the album that hasn't been seen yet.

Melodic and lighter....as in bravest face and good news first and faithless or different strings, losing it, mystic rhythms, the pass? Hmmmmm....if many fans are expecting heavy/prog/complex/acrobatic stuff from the rest of CA based on what we have heard so far, how will the general reaction be to "melodic and lighter"?

My guess is it will depend on the strength of song writing, flow, naturalness, and confidence. If the songs are going to be folksy ala SA, a lot of complaining here. But, if more in line with 70s and 80s lighter and melodic, then we may have a winner.

I made that same point in another thread, I think a lot of people have already convinced themselves that CA is going to be non-stop heaviness and they're going to be upset, or at least surprised.

I'll be thrilled if it's not non-stop heaviness.

Me too but I think we're in the minority, as I said in the other thread it's obvious that most of the excitement around the web from average/casual fans about CA comes purely from the fact that they're convinced the whole album will sound like the 3 songs we've heard, nothing but heavy riffs. When they hear a bunch of light catchy songs in the style of How It Is with strings and some keyboards they're going to be pissed. A whole lot of people are practically expecting a metal album.

I don't know why anyone would expect a full out heavy and/or metal album. I think they've only done that more or less twice.. debut album and Hemispheres.

That's because we're more knowledgeable about the band and this album in particular but go to where a large cross-section of general rock fans have heard the song like on youtube or on other bands' forums and you'll see mostly stuff like "Wow, if the whole album rocks as hard as HF it's going to be awesome! So glad they went back to the heavy stuff!" The overwhelming majority of excitement about CA from non-hardcore (and some hardcore) fans is about how heavy they think it will be.

I honestly can't fathom when/why this shift happened. They've been almost nothing but heavy since Counterparts, with a few exceptions. Even S&A was mostly very heavy songs (I personally don't equate speed with heaviness). Prior to that, Rush was never about releasing relentlessly heavy albums - there was always a lot of light and shade mixed together.

Someone even mentioned the first album as being one of the most heavy. Maybe it was, but it also had a lot of melody and really CATCHY songs, and those elements for me are a large part of what makes Rush great, not just heavy metal riffs or pounding relentlessness, but the whole package. Heavy is completely fine if you can also make a song catchy and have melody (i.e., memorable), but to want or expect them to be in your face heaviness (and I guess what people also want is high speed songs after some of S&A) seems to have little to do with what Rush is about as far as I'm concerned. Or maybe that's who they are now and the fan base has really changed?

Almost every album people say Rush is BACK, as if they went somewhere. I think maybe people are still rebelling against the keyboard era, or the "thin" sound and more poppy material of Presto & RTB, but if you look honestly at where they've been from CP through the few songs we've heard on HF, the newer music doesn't sound very much like who they were from 1974-1981 to me at all. If they were really back from that, they'd be adding in some keyboards and going back to more melodic and spacious prog rock and catchy shorter songs - they haven't done that in many years.

I agree almost word for word with everything you wrote. I think the answer is twofold. First, modern heavy rock/metal has gotten so heavy that the standards for what rock fans consider heavy enough keeps getting more extreme. It's become a sliding scale. And secondly, the general rock fan that only cares about heavy riffing no matter the band has an incredibly selective memory when it comes to what older bands have done because they only ever listen to or are even aware of what they like. When they think of old Rush they aren't thinking of Tears or Madrigal or Different Strings, their only reference point is stuff like Temples of Syrinx and Anthem and Working Man. Their image of those classic-era bands is one sided based on what they like.

I know this to be true because the exact same thing just happened with the new Van Halen release. The new VH album is consistently far heavier than any of their older albums and yet it just seems to have met the mimimum requirements for being heavy enough for a lot of fans. The original 6 VH albums with David Lee Roth were full of humor and light moments and all kinds of quirky things like Could This Be Magic? and Secrets and cover songs and keyboard songs and pop songs and on and on. Yet the new album has songs like China Town that sounds practically like Iron Maiden and HoneyBabySweetieDoll which is almost Pantera-like in its dark heavy metal-like sound. But much of the reaction has been "Thank god a lot of these songs rock as hard as the old songs". And for a lot of fans the 2 or 3 songs out of 13 that aren't hard rock are dismissed as boring.

I have the same reaction as you and have had it for many years about Rush whenever I hear the chorus of "Finally, they're playing heavy rock again!". With the exception of the lack of screaming vocals (which I think is a lot of what people respond to) Rush has been on average heavier, sometimes far heavier, from Counterparts on than they were in the 70s. But I think that's because you and I and others like us actually listen to and enjoy In the End and The Twilight Zone and Entre Nous and all the 80s stuff etc. Compared to that stuff all the Double Agent/Time and Motion/Peaceable Kingdom/Armor and Sword/BU2B type songs from the last 5 albums are incredibly heavy. Even the lighter songs from those albums are sonically much heavier than what had come for a long time before. But these rock fans we're talking about wouldn't even recognize Losing It or Red Lenses or Middletown Dreams or Open Secrets or Available Light as even being part of the catalog. That's why their perception is what it is.

So there's my long-winded view of it.

Edited May 2, 2012 by snowdog2112

**Tony R** · May 2, 2012

There's a lot of people going to be very disappointed.

**Del_Duio** · May 2, 2012

QUOTE (aaronrusso @ May 2 2012, 08:15 AM)

im really intrigued by the track "The Garden", likeclockwork, can you give us any vague details as to the feel of this track, obviously it seems to be a lighter, melodic track, but i was just wondering whether it is a worthy album closer?

I wonder if it'll be anything like the Sphere part of Hempisheres?

**Presto-digitation** · May 2, 2012

QUOTE (Lerxster @ May 2 2012, 09:34 AM)

QUOTE (Presto-digitation @ May 2 2012, 09:15 AM)

QUOTE (Lerxster @ May 2 2012, 08:44 AM)

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ May 2 2012, 08:22 AM)

QUOTE (Lerxster @ May 2 2012, 06:56 AM)

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ May 2 2012, 07:28 AM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ May 1 2012, 10:20 PM)

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ May 1 2012, 07:58 PM)

QUOTE (Gedneil Alpeart @ May 1 2012, 08:32 PM)

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ May 1 2012, 09:16 PM)

I think we already have quite a bit of that from likeclockwork who appears to be genuine. The gist of it being that most of the rest of the album will be a lot more melodic and lighter than what we've heard so far:

I've heard most of the album and can confidently say that Clockwork Angels is significantly better than S&A. There's only 1 song I don't particularly like so far. Whether they suit your personal taste or not, the quality to these songs is just way way better than the last couple of albums. These songs are confidently made and don't sound forced at all liked much of the recent material in my opinion. Also, as heavy as the songs that have been released are, many of the remainder are quite the opposite. The album has a very diverse collection of songs. I'll also say that Headlong Flight is not one of the songs in my regular rotation either - but I'm always partial to more melodic and hook-y songs.

Most of the remaining songs sound very different from the three songs that have been released to date. There's a much more melodic side to the album that hasn't been seen yet.

Melodic and lighter....as in bravest face and good news first and faithless or different strings, losing it, mystic rhythms, the pass? Hmmmmm....if many fans are expecting heavy/prog/complex/acrobatic stuff from the rest of CA based on what we have heard so far, how will the general reaction be to "melodic and lighter"?

My guess is it will depend on the strength of song writing, flow, naturalness, and confidence. If the songs are going to be folksy ala SA, a lot of complaining here. But, if more in line with 70s and 80s lighter and melodic, then we may have a winner.

I made that same point in another thread, I think a lot of people have already convinced themselves that CA is going to be non-stop heaviness and they're going to be upset, or at least surprised.

I'll be thrilled if it's not non-stop heaviness.

Me too but I think we're in the minority, as I said in the other thread it's obvious that most of the excitement around the web from average/casual fans about CA comes purely from the fact that they're convinced the whole album will sound like the 3 songs we've heard, nothing but heavy riffs. When they hear a bunch of light catchy songs in the style of How It Is with strings and some keyboards they're going to be pissed. A whole lot of people are practically expecting a metal album.

I don't know why anyone would expect a full out heavy and/or metal album. I think they've only done that more or less twice.. debut album and Hemispheres.

That's because we're more knowledgeable about the band and this album in particular but go to where a large cross-section of general rock fans have heard the song like on youtube or on other bands' forums and you'll see mostly stuff like "Wow, if the whole album rocks as hard as HF it's going to be awesome! So glad they went back to the heavy stuff!" The overwhelming majority of excitement about CA from non-hardcore (and some hardcore) fans is about how heavy they think it will be.

Alright, I understand what you're saying. I guess I'll say then that if anyone thinks this album will be balls to the wall every track, then they shouldn't be so stupid

I conversely think those that are worried that it sounds "like" those songs can't read either. I think it was a melodic inference and point of reference, not necessarily How It Is II (Electric Boogaloo) or Bravest Face, the sequel.

Yes. And I think it's Bravest Face II (More Braver).

**rushgoober** · May 2, 2012

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ May 2 2012, 08:38 AM)