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A Facebook group to protest VIP Nation's policies


Kelly D
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Our mission statement:

 

"We are fans of one of the greatest bands in the world, 2.gif.

 

We have met mostly online through various outlets and have even become close friends outside 'Virtuality.'

 

We host Rush fan conventions, have listening parties online, post lyrics/videos/trivia on our Facebooks, listen to their albums in our car/home/workplace, talk about them online and off.

 

We go out of our way to see the Holy Triumvirate as often as we can when they choose to go on tour.

 

We are profoundly disappointed with the new rules and regulations of VIP Nation (an offshoot of LiveNation), that state that a person who buys a VIP ticket (a reserved ticket within the first 15 rows) to see Rush through its website will NOT KNOW WHERE S/HE IS SITTING UNTIL THE DAY OF THE SHOW.

 

We are well aware of the shortsighted intention of this new rule, that this is to prevent brokers from buying up the best seats in any particular venue and reselling them for exorbitant prices.

 

We do not, however, believe that this is an effective way of doing business. No self-respecting Rush fan would pay around $300 to see Rush in the 15th row of any venue.

 

We believe in the truism 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it.' If the VIP packages from the Time Machine Tour (sold through a different market) had the same basic business model as the Clockwork Angels Tour's packages, except for the fact that ONE WAS TOLD WHERE S/HE WAS SITTING IMMEDIATELY, what was wrong with it?

 

We, the members of this group, refuse to accept this.

 

We are deeply disillusioned and we are ANGRY."

 

http://www.facebook.com/groups/297136783697993/

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Great Post Kelly D...

 

...this practice was the only reason I didn't go the VIP route.

 

So, I'm one section away from the stage on the lower level for the Newark and Brooklyn gigs.

 

Great seats, so I really have to right to complain.

 

Too much of a risk to end up 15th row.

 

Great idea you there...I'm on board!

 

~Peace, Love, Rush

 

RGLT cool.gif

 

2.gif AlexFinal.gif 2.gif NeilFinal.gif 2.gif GeddyFinal.gif 2.gif

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The last two Rush shows I went to, I bought the VIP Package from Ticketmaster. Got to see my exact seats in advance. That's the way to do business.

 

I will not be using the VIPNation program this time, specifically because I cannot see where my seats are.

 

They say that you are seated based on when you buy (first come, first served), but how do we know that? There's no way to verify that's true.

 

However, I don't have a Facebook page, so I'll just rant here.

 

angry.gif

 

wink.gif

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I was actually considering going the VIP route this tour because I live in a market that is tough to get decent seats. I figured I could at least guarantee a good seat as opposed to rolling the bones on TM or MT presale. I don't really want or need the swag...just a good seat.

 

However, after I became aware of the latest policy by VIP Nation I immediatley changed my mind. There is no way in the world I am gonna plunk down $350 bucks to "maybe" get close.

 

And to make maters worse, there are certain dedicated fans who are taking this very personal and considering not even attending any shows. I have no idea how much input and/or knowledge the members of Rush have regarding this latest ploy but I'm sure Rush management signed off on this.

And if you ask me it stinks in Denmark....and Manchester..and Bristow...and Pittsburgh and so on and so on.

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I agree with this frustration, I'm trying to decide what to do before the next round of sales. It's great that some used the regular presale and scored good tickets, but I tried and came up empty, and now I'm considering the VIP route. What to do?

 

To make any petition more convincing I'd make an argument that this practice will hurt business in the long run, particularly if fans become disillusioned after they fork out the big bucks and then show up on the day of the concert and get seats past the 10th row, off to one side, etc.

 

What I don't get is why the seats have to be secret to deter the scalpers, especially if you have to show ID and pick up the tickets at the venue on the day of the show? Did the resellers scoop up VIP tickets on the last tour?

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QUOTE (kid-gloves @ Apr 26 2012, 07:40 PM)
What I don't get is why the seats have to be secret to deter the scalpers, especially if you have to show ID and pick up the tickets at the venue on the day of the show? Did the resellers scoop up VIP tickets on the last tour?

This is why the idea is so stupid. You give your name when buying the tix, YOU need to show ID to pick them up and YOU may only do so an hour or so before the concert. Tell me where my seat is if you expect me to shell out 315$+fees+tax times 2 or more tickets.

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QUOTE (Unattractive Truth @ Apr 26 2012, 09:59 PM)
QUOTE (Kelly D @ Apr 26 2012, 06:23 PM)
There's a petition too wink.gif

http://www.change.org/petitions/vip-nation...ickets-packages

Done and done.

 

PS: Nice signature!

 

wink.gif

 

trink39.gif

Many, many thanks to you!!!

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Not knowing where your seats are before the show is the dumbest thing i've ever heard. If they wanna stop scalpers from getting the better seats they need to do what Iron Maiden does. They do a thing called paperless tickets but the only draw back is that you don't get a ticket stub to keep. How the process works is if you get tickets to one of their shows and they are the better seats up close to the stage, they give you a confirmation number and keep your ticket order at will call. On the day of the show you bring the confirmation number they e-mailed you with your order and the card you purchased it with to will call. There they will print you a recipt with your section and seat numbers and off you go to enjoy the show.

 

I hope I explained the whole thing clearly. It may seem a bit strange but I did that two years ago when I saw them and it worked out fine. But the biggest thing is that you do know where you're sitting when you buy the tickets. It sucks you don't get a ticket stub but if Rush's management is trying to eliminate scalpers getting the good seats over the dedicated fans than the paperless proccess is the best way to do it.

Edited by J2112YYZ
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While I agree with the sentiment, the execution will not have any effect on the policies. Don't take this personally:

 

QUOTE
"We are fans of one of the greatest bands in the world, Rush.

We have met mostly online through various outlets and have even become close friends outside 'Virtuality.'
They don't care about our opinion of the band. They definitely will not understand the Virtuality reference. They also couldn't care less that we hang out online, offline, or even at all. Doesn't pertain to the reason we have issues with their policies.
QUOTE
We host Rush fan conventions, have listening parties online, post lyrics/videos/trivia on our Facebooks, listen to their albums in our car/home/workplace, talk about them online and off.
This is fine, but again, they're not going to be impressed by how much of a fan we are. (You'll see why in just a minute).
QUOTE
We go out of our way to see the Holy Triumvirate as often as we can when they choose to go on tour.
Calling them the Holy Triumvirate? You just lost probably 80% of anyone with any authority at VIP Nation who might be reading this thing. It sounds kooky.
QUOTE
We are profoundly disappointed with the new rules and regulations of VIP Nation (an offshoot of LiveNation), that state that a person who buys a VIP ticket (a reserved ticket within the first 15 rows) to see Rush through its website will NOT KNOW WHERE S/HE IS SITTING UNTIL THE DAY OF THE SHOW.
This is what you should have started off with, right after a perfunctory introductory statement. Right here. This is the heart of the matter - don't bury the lead.
QUOTE
We are well aware of the shortsighted intention of this new rule, that this is to prevent brokers from buying up the best seats in any particular venue and reselling them for exorbitant prices.
Good, but you're about to...
QUOTE
We do not, however, believe that this is an effective way of doing business. No self-respecting Rush fan would pay around $300 to see Rush in the 15th row of any venue.
...ruin it. You just ruined it. No self respecting Rush fan? These VIP tickets have been selling like hot cakes. On the Time Machine tour, they sold for even more, and people bought them knowing that they'd be in the 15th row. Like I did. You just killed your entire argument... people do buy these things. You're supposed to be convincing them that it's a bad idea.
QUOTE
We believe in the truism 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it.' If the VIP packages from the Time Machine Tour (sold through a different market) had the same basic business model as the Clockwork Angels Tour's packages, except for the fact that ONE WAS TOLD WHERE S/HE WAS SITTING IMMEDIATELY, what was wrong with it?
Well, there ya go. That's your overall point, right? But this shows a lack of research. Why did they make the change? There might be a perfectly good reason for it. Unless we know why, we cannot effectively argue against it. VIP Nation is in business to make money - lots and lots of money. You have to give them a way to do that while at the same time giving us what we want. If you can't, then they won't change, because...
QUOTE
We, the members of this group, refuse to accept this.
...we are totally accepting this. The VIP packages are selling and I would bet a good amount of money that at least some of the people who sign that petition out of principle have already bought their VIP packages.
QUOTE
We are deeply disillusioned and we are ANGRY."
I don't know about disillusionment, but angry... clearly. But being angry isn't going to make VIP Nation change their policy. They need to be approached from a business angle, not an emotional one.

 

My two cents.

Edited by danielmclark
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Here is the email I sent to VIPNation earlier this week:

 

 

 

 

To whom it may concern,

 

I am writing you this letter today to let you know that until you change your policy regarding disclosure of seating locations I will not use your service. While I find pricing to be 'acceptable' for the upcoming RUSH - Clockwork Angels tour I refuse to spend $300 per ticket (median price based on the sample size available) without knowing a specific seating location.

 

I have been a concert goer for well over 30 years and I have never simply given money to any entity without knowing an exact seating location (section, row and seat number). I find this practice to be distasteful at best. Asking customers to simply 'take it on faith' that you will assign seats according to a date/time stamp is bad business in my never to be humbled opinion.

 

 

I will be seeing no less than 3 shows on the RUSH - Clockwork Angels tour and I can promise you that unless your company changes its business practice of not disclosing an exact seating location I will refrain from spending my money with you.

 

At best, this methodology is shady. At worst it's downright unethical. And in some states it might even be illegal. (New York for example. Where the law states full disclosure is required by any ticketing agency).

 

I have no issue with the policy of holding back the ticket itself until the day of the show and needing to provide photo ID as well as the credit card used to make the purchase to pick up tickets. IMO this is a great deterrent to brokers. But to punish long time (read: die-hard) fans by not allowing them to know a seating location prior to purchase for the most expensive seats in the house is a business practice I simply cannot support.

 

I sincerely hope VIPNation takes this critique to heart and looks into adjusting it's methods to better serve the people who matter, the customers. Nothing would make me happier than to know I have the exact seat I want well before the date of my event. But that is not how your company is setup at the moment which is the reason for this letter.

 

 

Best wishes,

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I agree and share in your frustration. Unfortunately I don't think it will make a difference. Specifically because the majority (all but maybe 2 or 3) of the shows that have already gone on VIP sale have sold out. So clearly the fans will still purchase the package regardless of the policy. I am guilty of this as well. An expensive gamble, but I accepted the risks.

Keeping my fingers crossed for front row in Chicago! I had my order for two tickets in under 1 minute after they went on sale. If I end up with anything outside the first three rows I will be screaming bloody murder! However, I won't have an argument against Live Nation again since I accepted the terms.

 

2.gif

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I seem to be severely against the grain here, but I don't see whats so bad about this. I've gone to plenty of shows (not Rush) with fan club tickets that were drawn randomly day of the show, which meant that I didn't know exactly where I was until I picked them up.

If you're assured that you're going to be up front, I don't see why it's such a horrible thing to have a surprise as to the exact location. The price of the VIP thing isn't only for the ticket, it's largely for all the swag and stuff.

Edited by opsopcopolis
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Here's what I posted on facebook:

 

I agree with the anger and and the unfairness of not knowing where your seat is, BUT we all know there are people out there who will buy the seats anyway. There are fans who try to get good seats each tour and end up in the nose bleeds, so for them ANYWHERE within 15 rows is a good thing. As long as people continue to buy these seats (and you know people will) VIPNation has no reason to change. sad.gif

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NOT using VIP-er. Just gonna roll the bones. Still hoping for great seats.

 

Having dealt with LiveNation in the performance venue where I worked, I can tell you there is very little they give a flying $#!t about. Even losses. The loss must be significant and sustained to get their attention. In many respects, they even hold the artists by the balls. That's because it's a monopoly.

 

It really sucks to be us. It sucks even more to be you, Kelly, because you're so awesome. Hardcore gals like you deserve front row because you represent the rest of us so well. When I saw you on the time machine video, I was like, "F...Yeah!!" I wish I had a silver bullet to shoot into those bastards, but I just don't know how to bring 'em down. I signed the petition anyway.

 

ps here was my message: "Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. We are fans. We hate brokers, but we also hate not knowing where we are sitting. You are smart. Please figure it out."

Edited by ioc
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Sure the wording could have been a little better , but good for you Kelly. trink39.gif
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No self-respecting Rush fan would pay around $300 to see Rush in the 15th row of any venue.

 

Guess being a fan of the band since 1978 and seeing just about every tour since that time meansexactly that if I buy VIP.

 

VIP works for me - I have a seat and I don't have to go through the hassles of dumping and starting over multiple times. I could be busy doing what I get paid to do....and that is work.

 

The whole petition idea is wonderful, but placing tags on fans because they do purchase VIP is rather .......(insert your own term here).

 

I have had upper-level concert tickets and I have been as close as third-row. Want to know something? I loved all the shows equally, but hated the process of getting tickets and fretting. VIP eliminates that.

 

So go ahead and refer to me as less than a sefl-respecting Rush fan. For me, those words show a level of maturity and understanding.

 

You labeled me

I'll label you

 

Metallica

Edited by drgrendel
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Here's another thought about this process:

 

The description says "ticket located within the first 15 rows".

 

So technically, they could all be in row 15, and they would be telling the truth.

 

People may be buying immediately, thinking that if they are first, that will give them the best shot at the first few rows. But maybe, there are no seats available there at all.

 

How would we know?

 

 

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QUOTE (Unattractive Truth @ Apr 27 2012, 12:32 PM)
Here's another thought about this process:

The description says "ticket located within the first 15 rows".

So technically, they could all be in row 15, and they would be telling the truth.

People may be buying immediately, thinking that if they are first, that will give them the best shot at the first few rows. But maybe, there are no seats available there at all.

How would we know?

Funny you say this. On the last tour i had floor seats , about 25 rows back. Before the start of the 2nd set i walked up to the front just to look. A Ton of seats in the first row were Empty . So i stood their until some jackass security guy threw me out .

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QUOTE (drgrendel @ Apr 27 2012, 12:28 PM)
No self-respecting Rush fan would pay around $300 to see Rush in the 15th row of any venue.

Guess being a fan of the band since 1978 and seeing just about every tour since that time meansexactly that if I buy VIP.

VIP works for me - I have a seat and I don't have to go through the hassles of dumping and starting over multiple times. I could be busy doing what I get paid to do....and that is work.

The whole petition idea is wonderful, but placing tags on fans because they do purchase VIP is rather .......(insert your own term here).

I have had upper-level concert tickets and I have been as close as third-row. Want to know something? I loved all the shows equally, but hated the process of getting tickets and fretting. VIP eliminates that.

So go ahead and refer to me as less than a sefl-respecting Rush fan. For me, those words show a level of maturity and understanding.

I can see what you're saying, but I think one of us has misunderstood the point of her post/petition.

 

I thought it was less about the concept of VIP tickets and more about not knowing WHICH seats you just shelled out the premium dough for.

 

If you use the VIP option, are told you've got 15th row seats and are okay with that, then good on ya. Knowing what seats you bought doesn't oblige you to kick them back. But a lot of us don't like the idea of so many PRIME seats taken off the market to be RAFFLED off to us. We'd just as soon, then, take our chances with the regular presale tickets. Unfortunately, thanks to VIP, there are less of those to go round for folks who WANT to know which seats they are buying.

 

I could be wrong, but that's how I understood her argument.

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I took offense to the labelling - the "no self-respecting" portion.

 

It really does not matter to me where in the first 15 the tickets are - knowing that I have tickets and I can get very decent ones without all the jumping around and going through hoops is worth it. Additionally, the swag is pretty cool as well.

 

At the same time, I applaud those that can score very close seats via multiple computers and having patience.

 

We all wear different colors and have differing lives, the use of that label was not necessary and it was quite condescending.

 

Indeed not knowing for many is awful, but please do not judge those who only care about attending and will use whatever means available to be there.

Edited by drgrendel
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QUOTE (danielmclark @ Apr 26 2012, 10:39 PM)
While I agree with the sentiment, the execution will not have any effect on the policies. Don't take this personally:

QUOTE
"We are fans of one of the greatest bands in the world, Rush.

We have met mostly online through various outlets and have even become close friends outside 'Virtuality.'
They don't care about our opinion of the band. They definitely will not understand the Virtuality reference. They also couldn't care less that we hang out online, offline, or even at all. Doesn't pertain to the reason we have issues with their policies.
QUOTE
We host Rush fan conventions, have listening parties online, post lyrics/videos/trivia on our Facebooks, listen to their albums in our car/home/workplace, talk about them online and off.
This is fine, but again, they're not going to be impressed by how much of a fan we are. (You'll see why in just a minute).
QUOTE
We go out of our way to see the Holy Triumvirate as often as we can when they choose to go on tour.
Calling them the Holy Triumvirate? You just lost probably 80% of anyone with any authority at VIP Nation who might be reading this thing. It sounds kooky.
QUOTE
We are profoundly disappointed with the new rules and regulations of VIP Nation (an offshoot of LiveNation), that state that a person who buys a VIP ticket (a reserved ticket within the first 15 rows) to see Rush through its website will NOT KNOW WHERE S/HE IS SITTING UNTIL THE DAY OF THE SHOW.
This is what you should have started off with, right after a perfunctory introductory statement. Right here. This is the heart of the matter - don't bury the lead.
QUOTE
We are well aware of the shortsighted intention of this new rule, that this is to prevent brokers from buying up the best seats in any particular venue and reselling them for exorbitant prices.
Good, but you're about to...
QUOTE
We do not, however, believe that this is an effective way of doing business. No self-respecting Rush fan would pay around $300 to see Rush in the 15th row of any venue.
...ruin it. You just ruined it. No self respecting Rush fan? These VIP tickets have been selling like hot cakes. On the Time Machine tour, they sold for even more, and people bought them knowing that they'd be in the 15th row. Like I did. You just killed your entire argument... people do buy these things. You're supposed to be convincing them that it's a bad idea.
QUOTE
We believe in the truism 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it.' If the VIP packages from the Time Machine Tour (sold through a different market) had the same basic business model as the Clockwork Angels Tour's packages, except for the fact that ONE WAS TOLD WHERE S/HE WAS SITTING IMMEDIATELY, what was wrong with it?
Well, there ya go. That's your overall point, right? But this shows a lack of research. Why did they make the change? There might be a perfectly good reason for it. Unless we know why, we cannot effectively argue against it. VIP Nation is in business to make money - lots and lots of money. You have to give them a way to do that while at the same time giving us what we want. If you can't, then they won't change, because...
QUOTE
We, the members of this group, refuse to accept this.
...we are totally accepting this. The VIP packages are selling and I would bet a good amount of money that at least some of the people who sign that petition out of principle have already bought their VIP packages.
QUOTE
We are deeply disillusioned and we are ANGRY."
I don't know about disillusionment, but angry... clearly. But being angry isn't going to make VIP Nation change their policy. They need to be approached from a business angle, not an emotional one.

 

My two cents.

Indeed, this could have been better worded- I'm more going for the scope of signatures and the song references were more for the fans.

 

My main point was for people to sign the petition or send individual letters. This wasn't anything official. I wrote another letter to send to the head of VIP Nation.

 

Does that clear it up? Sorry I was a bit obfuscatory.

Edited by Kelly D
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