2112 connection

[Lerxster]

QUOTE (danielmclark @ Apr 13 2012, 05:37 PM)

I'm hoping it's just a callback to a previous album. It wouldn't be the first time elements of a previous album have made it onto a new work. I will be supremely disappointed if it's a retelling of 2112. The story of 2112 is retarded to begin with, and doing a retelling of it would just show the world that the band is completely out of ideas.

Why would you assume such things about Rush. Never mind. Maybe your hockey team lost tonight.

 

And really, as I'm sure I've pointed out to you before once, why must things be "retarded" with you. You seem to pull that out often. And it isn't the first time that you applied that term to Rush. Aren't you in your 30's? Never mind. Your hockey team got must have gotten embarrased tonight.

[danielmclark]

QUOTE (Lerxster @ Apr 13 2012, 09:06 PM)

And really, as I'm sure I've pointed out to you before once, why must things be "retarded" with you. You seem to pull that out often. And it isn't the first time that you applied that term to Rush. Aren't you in your 30's? Never mind. Your hockey team got must have gotten embarrased tonight.

Do I now? I'm not sure if I should be flattered that you pay so much attention to every word I write or scared.

 

But whichever it is, I'd like you to compile a list of times I've used the word 'retarded'. If it's as big a list as you seem to think it is, it shouldn't take you but a minute using the site's search function. Go right ahead.

 

And if you don't feel up to the challenge, might I just say this final thing: if you think you're going to be the language police with me, if you feel like you need to call me out for using a word you don't like, you can go frak yourself. Seriously. If a mod or admin wants to admonish me for it, if it's against forum rules, then I will abide and humbly beg pardon. But you don't get to tell me what words I'm allowed or not allowed to say. I don't impose my will on you, and you sure as hell won't impose yours on me.

 

[edited to add - this is my 3,000th post here. Thanks for making it so goddamn special. ]

Edited April 14, 2012 by danielmclark

[Lerxster]

QUOTE (danielmclark @ Apr 13 2012, 10:16 PM)

QUOTE (Lerxster @ Apr 13 2012, 09:06 PM) And really, as I'm sure I've pointed out to you before once, why must things be "retarded" with you. You seem to pull that out often. And it isn't the first time that you applied that term to Rush. Aren't you in your 30's? Never mind. Your hockey team got must have gotten embarrased tonight. Do I now? I'm not sure if I should be flattered that you pay so much attention to every word I write or scared.   But whichever it is, I'd like you to compile a list of times I've used the word 'retarded'. If it's as big a list as you seem to think it is, it shouldn't take you but a minute using the site's search function. Go right ahead.   And if you don't feel up to the challenge, might I just say this final thing: if you think you're going to be the language police with me, if you feel like you need to call me out for using a word you don't like, you can go frak yourself. Seriously. If a mod or admin wants to admonish me for it, if it's against forum rules, then I will abide and humbly beg pardon. But you don't get to tell me what words I'm allowed or not allowed to say. I don't impose my will on you, and you sure as hell won't impose yours on me.   [edited to add - this is my 3,000th post here. Thanks for making it so goddamn special. ] Frak? That sounds like you want me to be a digital man or something. I am not offended.   Congrats on 3000 On a 3000 related note, I saw Derek Jeter hit his 3000th hit at new Yankee Staduim. Very exciting. He was 5-5 that day. And it was my birthday   (edited to add: One doesn't have to be language police to recognize that retarded is an ugly word)

Edited April 14, 2012 by Lerxster

[danielmclark]

QUOTE (Lerxster @ Apr 13 2012, 09:25 PM)

QUOTE (danielmclark @ Apr 13 2012, 10:16 PM) QUOTE (Lerxster @ Apr 13 2012, 09:06 PM) And really, as I'm sure I've pointed out to you before once, why must things be "retarded" with you. You seem to pull that out often. And it isn't the first time that you applied that term to Rush. Aren't you in your 30's? Never mind. Your hockey team got must have gotten embarrased tonight. Do I now? I'm not sure if I should be flattered that you pay so much attention to every word I write or scared.   But whichever it is, I'd like you to compile a list of times I've used the word 'retarded'. If it's as big a list as you seem to think it is, it shouldn't take you but a minute using the site's search function. Go right ahead.   And if you don't feel up to the challenge, might I just say this final thing: if you think you're going to be the language police with me, if you feel like you need to call me out for using a word you don't like, you can go frak yourself. Seriously. If a mod or admin wants to admonish me for it, if it's against forum rules, then I will abide and humbly beg pardon. But you don't get to tell me what words I'm allowed or not allowed to say. I don't impose my will on you, and you sure as hell won't impose yours on me.   [edited to add - this is my 3,000th post here. Thanks for making it so goddamn special. ] Frak? That sounds like you want me to be a digital man or something. I am not offended.   Congrats on 3000 On a 3000 related note, I saw Derek Jeter hit his 3000th hit at new Yankee Staduim. Very exciting. He was 5-5 that day. And it was my birthday   (edited to add: One doesn't have to be language police to recognize that retarded is an ugly word) It's an ugly word to you. Not to everyone. Not every negative word is a slur, no matter how much certain special interest groups try to make it so.   I used 'frak' because I didn't want to push my luck in that particular post with a word that I know the admins would rather not be tossed around all willy-nilly. And I'd just finished watching Battlestar Galactica, so... yeah. Frak. Hm.   That's cool that you were there for that milestone. I went to a Yankees game at the new stadium last year when I was visting NYC on business. I liked it a lot. Great venue.

[FountainOfSyrinx]

Let's all be friends!

[King Whompus]

QUOTE (danielmclark @ Apr 13 2012, 10:16 PM)

QUOTE (Lerxster @ Apr 13 2012, 09:06 PM) And really, as I'm sure I've pointed out to you before once, why must things be "retarded" with you. You seem to pull that out often. And it isn't the first time that you applied that term to Rush. Aren't you in your 30's? Never mind. Your hockey team got must have gotten embarrased tonight. Do I now? I'm not sure if I should be flattered that you pay so much attention to every word I write or scared.   But whichever it is, I'd like you to compile a list of times I've used the word 'retarded'. If it's as big a list as you seem to think it is, it shouldn't take you but a minute using the site's search function. Go right ahead.   And if you don't feel up to the challenge, might I just say this final thing: if you think you're going to be the language police with me, if you feel like you need to call me out for using a word you don't like, you can go frak yourself. Seriously. If a mod or admin wants to admonish me for it, if it's against forum rules, then I will abide and humbly beg pardon. But you don't get to tell me what words I'm allowed or not allowed to say. I don't impose my will on you, and you sure as hell won't impose yours on me.   [edited to add - this is my 3,000th post here. Thanks for making it so goddamn special. ] I honestly don't give a flying frak that you used the word retarded. What caught me off guard is that you (a Rush fan) dislike the story to 2112. I guess we all have our own opinions.

[treeduck]

QUOTE (King Whompus @ Apr 13 2012, 10:46 PM)

QUOTE (danielmclark @ Apr 13 2012, 10:16 PM) QUOTE (Lerxster @ Apr 13 2012, 09:06 PM) And really, as I'm sure I've pointed out to you before once, why must things be "retarded" with you. You seem to pull that out often. And it isn't the first time that you applied that term to Rush. Aren't you in your 30's? Never mind. Your hockey team got must have gotten embarrased tonight. Do I now? I'm not sure if I should be flattered that you pay so much attention to every word I write or scared.   But whichever it is, I'd like you to compile a list of times I've used the word 'retarded'. If it's as big a list as you seem to think it is, it shouldn't take you but a minute using the site's search function. Go right ahead.   And if you don't feel up to the challenge, might I just say this final thing: if you think you're going to be the language police with me, if you feel like you need to call me out for using a word you don't like, you can go frak yourself. Seriously. If a mod or admin wants to admonish me for it, if it's against forum rules, then I will abide and humbly beg pardon. But you don't get to tell me what words I'm allowed or not allowed to say. I don't impose my will on you, and you sure as hell won't impose yours on me.   [edited to add - this is my 3,000th post here. Thanks for making it so goddamn special. ] I honestly don't give a flying frak that you used the word retarded. What caught me off guard is that you (a Rush fan) dislike the story to 2112. I guess we all have our own opinions. Frak??? Where do you think you are, the Twelve Colonies?

[danielmclark]

QUOTE (treeduck @ Apr 13 2012, 10:08 PM)

QUOTE (King Whompus @ Apr 13 2012, 10:46 PM) QUOTE (danielmclark @ Apr 13 2012, 10:16 PM) QUOTE (Lerxster @ Apr 13 2012, 09:06 PM) And really, as I'm sure I've pointed out to you before once, why must things be "retarded" with you. You seem to pull that out often. And it isn't the first time that you applied that term to Rush. Aren't you in your 30's? Never mind. Your hockey team got must have gotten embarrased tonight. Do I now? I'm not sure if I should be flattered that you pay so much attention to every word I write or scared.   But whichever it is, I'd like you to compile a list of times I've used the word 'retarded'. If it's as big a list as you seem to think it is, it shouldn't take you but a minute using the site's search function. Go right ahead.   And if you don't feel up to the challenge, might I just say this final thing: if you think you're going to be the language police with me, if you feel like you need to call me out for using a word you don't like, you can go frak yourself. Seriously. If a mod or admin wants to admonish me for it, if it's against forum rules, then I will abide and humbly beg pardon. But you don't get to tell me what words I'm allowed or not allowed to say. I don't impose my will on you, and you sure as hell won't impose yours on me.   [edited to add - this is my 3,000th post here. Thanks for making it so goddamn special. ] I honestly don't give a flying frak that you used the word retarded. What caught me off guard is that you (a Rush fan) dislike the story to 2112. I guess we all have our own opinions. Frak??? Where do you think you are, the Twelve Colonies? I'm a native of Tauron, didn't you know that?

[Tigershark2112]

Saying the story of 2112 is "retarded" on a Rush forum is just asking for it...

 

In no way can it be a continuation of 2112, that's set in the future and we already know this story is supposed to take place in some kind of alternate universe in the past, after all, that is what steampunk is.

 

And the 2112 story is awesome. I shouldn't even have to make an argument for that, especially at this website.

[danielmclark]

QUOTE (Tigershark2112 @ Apr 13 2012, 10:29 PM)

Saying the story of 2112 is "retarded" on a Rush forum is just asking for it... In no way can it be a continuation of 2112, that's set in the future and we already know this story is supposed to take place in some kind of alternate universe in the past, after all, that is what steampunk is. And the 2112 story is awesome. I shouldn't even have to make an argument for that, especially at this website.

And I backed off that assessment and now I'm going with "weak" as my word of choice.

 

I do think the story is weak, and I've also said on a number of occasions that I have a strong dislike for Tom Sawyer. I'm being honest here - there are a lot of things I love about 2112, but the story is not one of them.

[1-0-0-1-0-0-1]

QUOTE (danielmclark @ Apr 14 2012, 12:44 AM)

QUOTE (Tigershark2112 @ Apr 13 2012, 10:29 PM) Saying the story of 2112 is "retarded" on a Rush forum is just asking for it... In no way can it be a continuation of 2112, that's set in the future and we already know this story is supposed to take place in some kind of alternate universe in the past, after all, that is what steampunk is. And the 2112 story is awesome. I shouldn't even have to make an argument for that, especially at this website. And I backed off that assessment and now I'm going with "weak" as my word of choice.   I do think the story is weak, and I've also said on a number of occasions that I have a strong dislike for Tom Sawyer. I'm being honest here - there are a lot of things I love about 2112, but the story is not one of them. I'm not a huge fan of "Tom Sawyer" either, except for the middle jam section. I recognize that the have to play it at the shows, and I can sit there and listen to it, but when I pop in the CD, I usually skip to "Barchetta."

[RushIslander]

Shmeng.

 

2112.

 

[Silas Lang]

QUOTE (treeduck @ Apr 13 2012, 07:52 PM)

QUOTE (danielmclark @ Apr 13 2012, 07:44 PM) QUOTE (treeduck @ Apr 13 2012, 06:36 PM) QUOTE (danielmclark @ Apr 13 2012, 05:37 PM) The story of 2112 is retarded to begin with I like to hear your explanation about this.   And since you think 2112 is "retarded" I'd like to hear an "intelligent" idea for a concept album/song from you, since you're so far advanced at story-telling and in comparison to your genius RUSH have obviously been bereft of ideas their whole career.   Don't let your talents go to waste, get an agent!   Way to blow it out of proportion, ducks.   See my last post for an explanation.   I don't need to be an award winning writer to know a bad story when I hear or read it. It's my opinion and I'll be damned if I'm going to change it just because other people disagree. The story is weak. Full stop. The message is simple: if you take my music away, then baby I don't want to live!!   In my opinion it's GOOD!   And more importantly IT ROCKS!   And since we're talking rock & roll here, it's a great story and works perfectly. Self-realization, individualism, the idealism of youth, the desire for freedom, rebellion against comformity...pretty much what rock & roll is all about.

Edited April 14, 2012 by Silas Lang

[danielmclark]

QUOTE (Silas Lang @ Apr 13 2012, 11:41 PM)

And since we're talking rock & roll here, it's a great story and works perfectly. Self-realization, individualism, the idealism of youth, the desire for freedom, rebellion against comformity...pretty much what rock & roll is all about.

"Individualism" isn't a story, it's a theme. There's a difference. That's the point I've been trying to make. All the themes you mentioned are fine and noble, but the story that those themes were framed in is, in my opinion, weak.

[lifeson90]

the story of 2112 was absolutely spot-on as a short concept album piece from a band like rush, it wasnt meant to be even a very short novella just the very bare bones to hang their music on

 

disillusioned kid finds a strange object we know as a guitar learns to play it very fast wants to share it with the world gets stamped on by the mega authoritarian regime cant handle life without his new found means of free expression and kills himself...... thats it, in a nutshell, then fill it out with RUSH

 

you cant talk about 2112 as a story, you have to talk about it as a combination of storyline and the sound of rush

 

it seems to me that clockwork angels gonna be a little more fleshed out to say the least and we'll probably have the right to criticize it as a story in itself, particularly as an actual novel being published around it

[LyndseyG]

I just had an idea.

 

Maybe this is a prequel to 2112? Reason I'm saying this is the last track is called The Garden right? In 2112 didn't Anonymous find the guitar in a cave in... His garden?

 

What'd ya think?

 

Sorry if it's been picked up on before.

[losingit2k]

Here's a major connection: On the Longer Combined Tracks Thread GilbertK posted:

 

QUOTE

QUOTE  QUOTE (Gilbertk @ Apr 15 2012, 01:12 PM) 9. Headlong Flight(7:20) 10. BU2B2(1:28) 11. Wish Them Well(5:25) 12. The Garden(6:59) 21:12

 

This can't be a coincidence. This has to be part of a larger Suite that has been broken up into four songs!

 

 

 

 

 

[lifeson90]

hey losingit2k

 

thats a very nice find whether coincidental or not

Edited April 15, 2012 by lifeson90

[losingit2k]

QUOTE (lifeson90 @ Apr 15 2012, 08:15 AM)

hey losingit2k thats a very nice find whether coincidental or not

Thanks GilbertK not ne! I'm just the messanger!

 

[SlyJeff]

I guess I'll out my flamesuit on and agree that the story of 2112 is weak. Actually, I think the word I would use for it is, "immature". Which is fitting, because it was written by a young guy still figuring out his belief system and how to communicate it.

 

I absolutely love the song, and I love the way the story is told with the combination of music and lyrics. It's ambitious and hits the mark. Most bands could only dream of creating something like 2112- but the key for me is that the story is the least important part of the equation. Theme, music, wording, and sheer epic scope are what make it an awesome song.

 

Suicide as a resolution to anything is a very sophomoric answer. It clearly demonstrates the main character's despair, but it does it in an in-your-face, non-subtle way. It tells me Peart didn't trust his ability to communicate the character's sense of loss at what "should be" with the Oracle section of the song. Instead, he goes overly dramatic and hammers the point home in a way that causes me to lose a lot of identification I may have had with the main character.

 

Again, I think all of this fits with how a young Peart would have viewed and communicated about the world. In your early 20s you are idealistic and subtlety in story telling and communication is rare. In fact, it's rock and roll, so subtlety isn't normally a good fit anyway, but in 2112 Rush was taking on the task of blending literature (which demands subtlety) and rock- better they erred on the side of rock, but it does mean the story is lacking. It's a great song, with good themes, and a passable story, IMO.

 

I expect greater things story wise from Peart now that his is older, wiser, and a better writer. He's figured out how to blend rock and literature much better since, and also he's done a much better treatment of suicide in "The Pass".

 

My opinion on this has been this way for a while, but my recent exposure to suicide and the sickness that can lead some to think of it ever being a solution to their problems has reinforced my feelings about 2112.

[danielmclark]

Dammit, I knew I wasn't alone

[micgtr71]

QUOTE (RushIslander @ Apr 13 2012, 06:05 PM)

The Borough of Shmeng Subdivision Plan A drawing on the back of the Signal's album jacket has "2112' in the lower right corner.

This is what I was thinking, too.

[RUSHandOSU]

These are all great finds guys very interesting material.

[GeddyLeeFender]

2112 is F'ing awesome lyrically and musically, are people on this forum even Rush fans anymore? Half this forum has turned into arguments between members and that is what I think is "Retarted"

[danielmclark]

QUOTE (GeddyLeeFender @ Apr 15 2012, 03:20 PM)

2112 is F'ing awesome lyrically and musically, are people on this forum even Rush fans anymore? Half this forum has turned into arguments between members and that is what I think is "Retarted"

I spent close to $1000 for me and my wife to see the Time Machine tour, between the two VIP packages, 3 t-shirts, a tourbook, a poster, and a (admittedly pretty lame ) sticker set.

 

So I don't like the story the way it's told in 2112, that makes me less of a Rush fan? I don't think so. You don't get to define Rush fans by which songs they like and which they don't. I also can't stand Tom Sawyer anymore. Neither of these facts changes the main fact which is that I have spent an obscene amount of money over the past 20+ years supporting this band.