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Gibson sucks. Or did I just get a bad guitar? I really regret buying my AL ES-355. It developed finish cracks on the headstock around the pearl and around the tuner pegs without any provacation on my part. However, I heard that finish cracking on the headstocks of the AL 355's were a common thing.

 

It also got finish cracks on the side of the binding at some of the frets.

 

What is their deal? Is Gibson like Harley Davidson, producing shit motorcycles and guitars that are overpriced and hardly worth the money they charge?

 

Is it all about the name, dumb people like me buy the hot brand name that is Gibson and expect it to be the best thing you can buy? I guess they can charge those ridiculous prices because the demand is there. Is there a lot of stupid people out there?

 

How about the F holes on those? Were they all like mine and rough around the inside on the top? Why couldn't they finish the sides of the F holes? Are all 335's, 355's like that? That makes it look like shit IMO.

 

I think Gibson should fire whoever is in charge of quality control.

 

I could've cared less about the volute thing too. That didn't bother me at all.

 

Your thoughts please.

Thanks

 

 

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I have heard of some problems with this model. There is a guy in California who has been restoring these guitars for people with issues and apparently he has been staying really busy.

 

Overall, Gibson is awesome. One of the best guitar manufacturers in the world. But, for some reason, this particular model has been having a lot of issues.

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LerxstLuthier has commented that he has had at least 3 of these come through his shop that required some extensive refurb work. The headstock cracking is common from what I understand. Not sure about the f holes. I have also heard about the piezo bleed on the Al LP Axess. I was swapping out pickups on my Les Paul recently and read that even the guys at Gibson installing electronics need to have touch up paint and varnish to spot fix iron burns from soldering on f holed guitars.

 

That said, I have a 2006 Les Paul and it is easily the best electric guitar I own. I have an Epiphone LP Standard as well and with the exception of the pickups the Gibson considerably higher quality. It shipped with BurstBucker Pro pickups that are a bit bright for my taste because of the Alnico V magnets. I just put on some Duncans for a test drive but will probably get either Gibson Classic 57s or the original BurstBuckers, both of which have Alnico II magnets for a slightly rounder tone. But the overall quality of the neck, body materials, electronics and finish are considerably higher than the Epiphones that I have.

 

I have recently been advising a friend who is primarily a keyboard player who is looking to get an Epiphone Casino because he is a huge Beatles fan. One of the first things I told him was buying a guitar sight-unseen is a sketchy proposition at best. He decided he wanted a more pricey Elitist model as opposed to the John Lennon "Inspired" 1965 version. These two guitars are essentially identical except for the wood for the bracing, the nut material and the tuners. Both guitars have USA P-90s. The Elitist is about $500-$700 more and made in Japan while the Lennon is made in Korea. Neither of these guitars is available in a store so we are looking at ordering one through my GC contact. There is no way to play the actual one he'd buy without ordering it. The Lifeson 355 is similar in this respect. Anyone who really wanted one had to order one of the 300 they made. One would assume that an artist model from the Custom shop would be more exacting but that doesn't seem to be the case. One of the best things about Gibson is their warranty, which is 5 years and covers anything that is a factory issue. So the big problem is that these guitars require refurbishment out of the box, however once it's done the guitar is still covered. It is a hassle and shouldn't happen but eventually you will get the guitar you wanted. Ideally though these guitars are collector's piece and not "players" as collectors call them. Meaning that these replicas are more for guys who want an Alex Lifeson guitar rather than a guitar to gig with. That is why they cost so much. The axess is more of a player than the 355.

 

Anything that is mass produced will have variances from piece to piece and quality may suffer. All of my guitars have either been purchased new by me from a store where I played the guitar several times before purchasing, or from an individual who allowed me to play the guitar myself and run it through my own inspection. This is how how I have come to determine that just because a guitar is made in America and costs more doesn't mean it's a better guitar than the same model from the same company made in another country. I find this especially true with Fender. When comparing Strats recently with another friend he asked me if it was "ok" to get a Mexican Strat. I asked him if it played well and sounded good to which he replied "yes." So we went to the store together and played it next to 2 different American Strats, an American Standard and an SRV custom shop. The SRV may have been the overall better instrument, but we both liked the qualities of the Mexi as much or better. It was clearly a better piece than the American Standard. He later went back and got a Squire Tele which has become his main guitar over his new ES 339, a 70s Les Paul Deluxe and the Mexi Strat. He has also since gotten a Squire Strat resembling the Mexi and telling me "We made a mistake only looking up..." The Squire is distinctly different from the Mexi, but both are good guitars.

 

Be glad it's not a Ric which is only warrantied for a year and god help you if you bought it from a store because chances are the warranty ticks away while it sits in the store, whcih is why GC won't carry them. When you get one from MF you have to order them and have them shipped. They cost more than Gibsons and also have quality issues. For what that's worth... smile.gif

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QUOTE (CygnusX-1Bk2 @ Mar 8 2012, 03:45 PM)
I find this especially true with Fender. When comparing Strats recently with another friend he asked me if it was "ok" to get a Mexican Strat. I asked him if it played well and sounded good to which he replied "yes." So we went to the store together and played it next to 2 different American Strats, an American Standard and an SRV custom shop. The SRV may have been the overall better instrument, but we both liked the qualities of the Mexi as much or better. It was clearly a better piece than the American Standard.

Gibson does have a nice warranty coverage period on their guitars. However, on the warranty card it states that finish cracks are not covered under warranty.

 

That's bullshit. Why wouldn't they want to guarantee their work in that respect.

 

I also have a AL Les Paul Axcess. I really like that thing. I have no issues with that as of yet. It looks like it's going to hold up to be good quality. I have to say I commend Gibson on their fix for the piezo bleed. They took that seriously.

 

Just out of curiosity, may I ask you to detail a little more about why the Mexi was better? Did the other guitars have noticeable flaws? Or was it the sound? In what way can you describe how it sounded better?

 

I used to have a mexi Strat and I wish I had kept it, because I thought it was a quality guitar.

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There were a few factors, most notably the sound of the pickups. They had a little more punch and bite compared to the American Standard. The neck felt better too, more comfortable. The American was a little "stiffer" feeling. The SRV had Texas Special pickups, which my buddy also bought a set of which he mounted and has moved the pickguard between these guitars. Very cool. Anyway, the neck on the Mexi was very close to the SRV but at a quarter of the price. Also the finish seemed nicer than the AS, which could be debatable. The Mexi was like $400+ where the AS was a granny and the the SRV was over $2k. The Squire he ended up getting was very close to the Mexi but much brighter. Even with the Texas Specials on it it was really bright comparatively. The Squire isn't as well grounded as the Mexi. The Mexi probably isn't was well grounded as the American models, but I can deal with a little noise. Especially if you can find the quietest spot in the room! smile.gif

 

For what you pay for the 355 the finish should be covered to some degree. I am sure if you contacted them and pressed them on it you could get some sort of resolution. Companies are motivated to make customers happy. If you plead your case that you have a bunch of their guitars and this one is particularly problematic it is in their own best interest to make it right. Especially if you mention something like "I've been talking with my online community about these..." and see if that doesn't motivate someone to help you real quick. Gibson has been taking public relation hits with all this wood tariff raids hoopla. They need all the good online activity they can get!

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My guitar tech was working on an AL 355 and was commenting on how weak the guitar was by past Gibson standards. He took the bridge off and hefted it and then tossed it at me laughing. On the bottom of the bridge was stamped made in either Taiwan or China (I can't recall which). "There's your custom shop," he said. The fret job was iffy as well. My 93 studio was a better guitar. He concurred and told me to stay away from anything Gibson made after 2000. He also told me that the mexi fenders were the best deal going and agreed that there were mexis that he played that were better sounding and better constructed than the US ones. The only exception he made was the Eric Johnson model.
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The other thing that he told me was that the guitars in the faded series were all imported from China, assembled here, and stamped made in USA on the headstock. Just because the pickups and pickguards were screwed into the body deems the guitar made in USA...I don't know about that...
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This is very disappointing to hear. WTF is going on in this country? If you buy Made in the USA, you would expect to get a well made product. Especially if you're paying thousands of dollars for a guitar.

 

I've been watching YouTube videos of luthiers working on modern Gibson guitars and most of them are very disappointed with the product. One in particular where a man purchased a brand new Gibson for his son's birthday. When they received it the frets were all screwed up. In another video there's a dude working on an ES-350 (I think, may have been a 335 or a 355) and all of the screws that he received from Gibson were all bent out of shape.

The video ends with him saying, "C'mon Gibson, you're making the Norlins look good."

 

Now, I'm not saying all modern Gibsons suck. Take a looks at Cyg's.

 

Made in the USA isn't what it once used to be and it depresses the hell outta me.

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The problem with this country is that Americans want too much money to work and companies can pay foreign workers considerably less for similar work.

 

I think the problem with Gibson is similarly related. They are paying workers more but not getting the same quality of work. Not to mention they have expanded their production considerably so they are making more guitars than at any time previously. They have introduced several automated processes that used to be completely done by hand. They closed the factory in Kalamazoo several years ago where the most experienced workers had been, many of which bought the factory from Gibson and became the Heritage Guitar Company, making Gibson-like guitars the way they used to. So mathematically speaking the percentage of quality challenged guitars may be the same, but because they make more guitars that translates to more guitars with problems. Necks are still pretty much made by hand, as is all binding and electronics work. But because they are cranking out so many more pieces the quality slips. Bodies are mass cut (8-12 at a time) and painted automatically for the most part.

 

Martin has made sure to expand at a rate that still allows them a great deal more hand made quality.

 

I was watching a new Smithsonian special on electric guitars and not surprisingly Fender is the largest manufacturer of guitars in the world while Gibson is the second largest. Fender guitars are far more inconsistent, especially among their American guitars. I have played more dull necks on American Fenders than any other guitar or bass. The variance from an American Fender to a Chinese Squire can be very minimal. I cannot imagine paying more than several hundred dollars for any Fender. Fenders were designed to be inexpensive alternatives to fancier Gibsons of the time but now perception is reality. While the Stratocaster was a game changer as far as design goes, I would still take any Gibson over any Fender just about any day of the week personally.

 

When you throw in the way our society has developed over the past few decades and our increased mass consumerism culture it all feeds itself. Guitar Center has made everybody think that rock stardom is right around the corner and facilitate your average Joe Blow's dreams of grandeur. Their instrument buying power is unprecedented. This has been an exponential curve of growth for all manufacturers as a result. Some could argue that quality in general has gone up but again because there are more pieces being made ergo more quality issues as a result.

 

So we are all to blame! smile.gif

Edited by CygnusX-1Bk2
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Old Gibson good. New Gibson Bad. biggrin.gif

Carvin made in USA, here in San Diego. 3 times the guitar for half the price of a Gibson. Custom built and if you're not happy they'll take it back and try again.

And no, I don't work for them. tongue.gif

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I like the idea of Carvin more than I like Carvin products. I haven't played a new Carvin for many years so I may be out of the loop but there is always something just not quite right about them to me. I like their mixers and speakers. Way better than anything Mackie makes. I made a trip to their factory in Escondido several years ago to pick up a system with a friend. Very cool! I lived in near by Encinitas when I was a kid so it was cool to see and factory like that near there. But they are also not making thousands of guitars a day.

 

Ales used one of their amps in the mid 80's around Power Windos era.

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QUOTE (CygnusX-1Bk2 @ Mar 11 2012, 03:28 PM)
I like the idea of Carvin more than I like Carvin products.

Funny. That's exactly how I feel about Gibson.

Even my Epiphone is great but the neck is just too fat for comfort. And no choice given in the matter. Doesn't stop me from using it though.

To each his own. trink39.gif

Edited by hunter
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QUOTE (SignatureAurora75 @ Mar 7 2012, 07:11 PM)
Gibson sucks. Or did I just get a bad guitar? I really regret buying my AL ES-355. It developed finish cracks on the headstock around the pearl and around the tuner pegs without any provacation on my part. However, I heard that finish cracking on the headstocks of the AL 355's were a common thing.

It also got finish cracks on the side of the binding at some of the frets.

What is their deal? Is Gibson like Harley Davidson, producing shit motorcycles and guitars that are overpriced and hardly worth the money they charge?

Is it all about the name, dumb people like me buy the hot brand name that is Gibson and expect it to be the best thing you can buy? I guess they can charge those ridiculous prices because the demand is there. Is there a lot of stupid people out there?

How about the F holes on those? Were they all like mine and rough around the inside on the top? Why couldn't they finish the sides of the F holes? Are all 335's, 355's like that? That makes it look like shit IMO.

I think Gibson should fire whoever is in charge of quality control.

I could've cared less about the volute thing too. That didn't bother me at all.

Your thoughts please.
Thanks

Buy something (or have one reworked) from Gibson's custom shop. That's where you get "the good stuff" if you're not happy with stock guitars.

Could be a defect of some kind, too. wink.gif

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QUOTE (WCFIELDS @ Mar 12 2012, 05:19 PM)
QUOTE (hunter @ Mar 10 2012, 10:37 PM)
Old Gibson good. New Gibson Bad. biggrin.gif
Carvin made in USA, here in San Diego. 3 times the guitar for half the price of a Gibson.

Sorry, but no.....

laugh.gif

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QUOTE (CygnusX-1Bk2 @ Mar 12 2012, 07:21 PM)
QUOTE (WCFIELDS @ Mar 12 2012, 05:19 PM)
QUOTE (hunter @ Mar 10 2012, 10:37 PM)
Old Gibson good. New Gibson Bad. biggrin.gif
Carvin made in USA, here in San Diego. 3 times the guitar for half the price of a Gibson.

Sorry, but no.....

laugh.gif

Pfft...

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What? That response made me laugh...

 

Having played Carvins several years ago I can say they made some decent guitars but I can't put them in the same category as the major manufacturers. Ibanez, Dean and Schecter make as good guitars or better than Carvin for similar prices. But that's me.

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QUOTE (the masked drummer @ Mar 13 2012, 06:42 AM)
QUOTE (CygnusX-1Bk2 @ Mar 12 2012, 07:21 PM)
QUOTE (WCFIELDS @ Mar 12 2012, 05:19 PM)
QUOTE (hunter @ Mar 10 2012, 10:37 PM)
Old Gibson good. New Gibson Bad. biggrin.gif
Carvin made in USA, here in San Diego. 3 times the guitar for half the price of a Gibson.

Sorry, but no.....

laugh.gif

Pfft...

You honestly think Carvin makes better quality guitars than Gibson? For me Carvin are pretty entry level budget type guitars. Build quality not even in the same league....

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Not sure where Carvin gets this rep. Probably from people who've never held one in their life. I've played 'em and I'm not convinced you have WC. You can custom order your guitar built with the very top of the line parts and the best woods. Your choice of finishes etc. etc. And they do top quality work, and will bend over backward to make sure you're happy. I doubt Gibson would do that. Now if you've played one that somebody built from one of their kits or the bolt series I can see your point at them not being the top of the line. But to compare all of them with entry level guitars shows a certain level of unfamiliarity with them at best and downright ignorance of their quality at worst.

But too each his own. I'll probably never own a Gibson as I think they're way overrated and too expensive for what they offer. Just as you think Carvins aren't worth it.

 

 

C'mon take a look and tell me it's not a beautiful instrument

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I am sure that Allan Holdsworth's Carvins are top notch. He's the only known guitarist I've seen playing them regularly. Saw him last year actually. Thought it was a Steinberger but realize it's actually a Carvin. Holdsworth is not exactly a tone purest though. His sound is extremely effected.

 

I know Vai uses their amps. Their amps and PAs have always been excellent for the price. There is always a picture of Joe Walsh on their site and in their catalog but when I have seen Joe play it's either a Fender, Gibson or Gretsch.

 

None of this says that Carvins aren't good. I was once very enthralled with Carvin. They limit themselves by primarily being only available through them.

 

A lot of people like Taylor acoustics. I can't stand them personally. Too thin and overly bright for my taste. Not to mention they come across like Martin wannabes. Sure they can be pretty but they are not for me. Carvin makes some beautiful looking instruments but they are not for me.

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QUOTE (WCFIELDS @ Mar 15 2012, 06:42 PM)
QUOTE (the masked drummer @ Mar 13 2012, 06:42 AM)
QUOTE (CygnusX-1Bk2 @ Mar 12 2012, 07:21 PM)
QUOTE (WCFIELDS @ Mar 12 2012, 05:19 PM)
QUOTE (hunter @ Mar 10 2012, 10:37 PM)
Old Gibson good. New Gibson Bad. biggrin.gif
Carvin made in USA, here in San Diego. 3 times the guitar for half the price of a Gibson.

Sorry, but no.....

laugh.gif

Pfft...

You honestly think Carvin makes better quality guitars than Gibson? For me Carvin are pretty entry level budget type guitars. Build quality not even in the same league....

I have owned several Gibsons (SG, LPs, 335, and a 135) and can say that the build quality of the Carvins (727, 127, AE185, LB70, LB76) that I have played are just as good and in some instances better. The quality of the 727 was impeccable and quite a deal at around a grand.

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