Neil's Tales From The Trail, Need your opinions

[jebren72]

Neil strikes me(in that I dont know him sort of way) as a perfectly nice, thoughtful guy. I think because he's more reserved and he withdrew for awhile he's gotten a rep as some sort of dick. Honestly, if someone is that way , and people who dont know you are parceling through every innocent word you write looking for something sinister, would you want to interact with them?

 

All he said was the guy didnt intrude on his evening in a "fan" way. All that probably means to Neil is that the guy didnt slobber all over him, demand a picture/autograph/his drum set/his email/phone number, and then run off without saying thanks-as I'm sure has happened to Neil about 20000 times.

 

Neil is a very giving guy when it somes to signing autographs for fans so I doubt he was even talking about that or would have had a problem if the guy asked him for one . He's far more giving than most celebrities. If hes not comfortable with taking pictures or talking to people like their his new buddy then so be it. At least he's honest about it. Please stop putting your own "Neil should just do whatever everyone wants and if he doesnt he's a dick" policy onto him. No one on here knows him so why do people bring this up every month like they do?

[GeminiRising79]

The problem is you Neil apologists aren't looking at him as equals with yourselves. You consider him superior and willingly accept a servile/sycophantic position. Edited March 4, 2012 by GeminiRising79

[rushgoober]

QUOTE (GeminiRising79 @ Mar 4 2012, 09:03 AM)

The problem is you Neil apologists aren't looking at him as equals with yourselves. You consider him superior and willingly accept a servile/sycophantic position.

I often agree with you, but I'm really not getting what you're saying here.

 

I apologize for Neil, but only because I don't have any expectations that he should be some kind of superhuman friendly machine. He IS an equal. I don't consider him superior, but I do consider him an incredibly superior drummer, for whatever that's worth. I don't accept a servile or sycophantic position, I simply have compassion for a person who has been bombarded by fanatical people for decades and wants space. If people were coming after me like that, I'd want space too, and it would suck if people were judging me because of that. He's just a guy, and his wishes of wanting privacy should be respected. Just because Geddy and Alex have more of a tolerance for attention doesn't mean that standard should be applied to him or anyone else.

 

Then again, he's a famous person, so there is an element of him being a public figure where it's unreasonable to expect that he won't get any attention, but that also doesn't mean he has to put up with lunatics either.

[Presto-a RUSH fan!]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Mar 5 2012, 01:17 AM)

QUOTE (GeminiRising79 @ Mar 4 2012, 09:03 AM) The problem is you Neil apologists aren't looking at him as equals with yourselves.  You consider him superior and willingly accept a servile/sycophantic position. I often agree with you, but I'm really not getting what you're saying here.   I apologize for Neil, but only because I don't have any expectations that he should be some kind of superhuman friendly machine. He IS an equal. I don't consider him superior, but I do consider him an incredibly superior drummer, for whatever that's worth. I don't accept a servile or sycophantic position, I simply have compassion for a person who has been bombarded by fanatical people for decades and wants space. If people were coming after me like that, I'd want space too, and it would suck if people were judging me because of that. He's just a guy, and his wishes of wanting privacy should be respected. Just because Geddy and Alex have more of a tolerance for attention doesn't mean that standard should be applied to him or anyone else.   Then again, he's a famous person, so there is an element of him being a public figure where it's unreasonable to expect that he won't get any attention, but that also doesn't mean he has to put up with lunatics either.   Excellently put!

[HowItIs]

QUOTE (GeminiRising79 @ Mar 4 2012, 09:03 AM)

The problem is you Neil apologists aren't looking at him as equals with yourselves. You consider him superior and willingly accept a servile/sycophantic position.

Well, when did you get your PhD in psychiatry? This is utter BS and you are a jackass for suggesting it. Neil is a human being - just like the rest of us. And he deserves the same consideration. Perhaps the idea of treating other people with consideration is alien to you. That's too bad because you get what you give. And what you give - at least on this topic - is crap. http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd103/laserspray/internet%20stuff/smilies/nonono.gif

[Presto-a RUSH fan!]

QUOTE (Tommy Sawyer @ Mar 4 2012, 10:58 AM)

QUOTE (Presto-a RUSH fan! @ Mar 3 2012, 10:20 PM) QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Mar 3 2012, 06:52 PM) QUOTE (Presto-a RUSH fan! @ Mar 3 2012, 12:48 PM) QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Mar 3 2012, 12:14 PM) It would be nice if Geddy and Alex were given as much as attention as Neil gets. He's only 33% of the band afterall. I agree...and aren't you one of the people who constantly talks about Neil? Why don't you start some threads talking about Geddy or Alex?   Also, since we know MORE about Neil and because he writes the words that they sing, he tends to be the topic more. But 90% of the threads started about him are people bitching and whining about his lyrics or his relationship with the fans.   I have an idea...why don't you stop bad mouthing Neil every thread that pops up, then people like me with a smidgen of sense (yeah, I don't claim to know it all) won't have to respond to your and others just plain rude and dicky comments on Neil. Now you have every right to say them and I hope you don't stop because I enjoy the back and forth...but if the "I hate Neil set" decided to stop making threads and then ripping him constantly...people like me with a little sense wouldn't have to point out how wrong you are! I say that half tongue in cheek and half...give it a rest! Just as you can spout your opinions on Neil and what a jerk he is, I can spout off that you are completely wrong.   See you in the Next "Neil is a dick for writing a Story about a hero's journey that is really cool but I think the underlying theme is religion bashing so I hate CA and I hate Neil" thread! (maybe if you talk to the mods they will expand the thread title characters so you can get that all in on the title? Just a suggestion. )   If you've noticed, I haven't started any threads about any of them. I recently mentioned my interest in Geddy's hobby of baseball and Alex's hobby with golf.   Hey, it's easy to criticize Neil since his name is constantly mentioned. If this thread had not started, I probably wouldn't have written anything.   But you just gave me an idea.... I see what your idea was...and honestly the way you wrote it...I can't see anyone taking it serious and not mentioning . That thread is just asking to be derailed. But I did respond in it without using 's name. The first paragraph jokingly and what I expect the thread to turn into...the second a serious answer.   Glad I could help change you focus from that "guy who hits things on sticks and rides bikes contemplating the lack of a "sky god" and is "only 33% of the band". By the way, while I don't think RUSH would still be around if there weren't 2 light hearted guys named Alex and Geddy as most musicians have a stick up their a$$ and wouldn't have put up with some of the "loaner" traits that Neil has, I think you are COMPLETELY wrong to say he is only 33% of the band. If you go by 3 people so 33%, technically you are correct. But I submit that Neil is arguably the best drummer to ever play and he writes ALL the lyrics. So I would argue that he is more like 40 to 50% of the band. Geddy plays bass and synth, Alex plays guitar. Neil plays the drums AND writes the lyrics. Without Neil writing the lyrics I don't think we would be here in this forum even discussing RUSH. Have you ever thought what it would have been like if Rutsey had stayed or some other drummer joined but didn't write lyrics? I'm not saying RUSH wouldn't have been successful but think of all the songs that would never have been made. Imagine RUSH w/out 2112 or Hemispheres or Permanent Waves or Moving Pictures or...you get the idea. Of all the RUSH albums the one that I have listened to least and my least favorite is the debut.   So:   = WAY more than 33%, IMO! Sorry, but no. If there is anyone who gets more than 33% of Rush, that'd be Geddy. Bass, keys, vocals, songwriting, and the determination to keep the band going through a new drummer and the down the tubes tour.   But when it comes down to it, and are all equally important to the success of Rush. Without any of them, Rush would be a totally different (and maybe less popular) band.   I hate to admit when I am wrong, but I have to in this case. Although I think we wouldn't be here today talking about RUSH if Neil hadn't joined the band, that doesn't diminish the contributions of Alex or Geddy and it's funny that the quote below that I posted in the "Alex and Geddy Only" thread, says just that! I'm a little sometimes!   I have usually always said that all the members of RUSH are equally important and if you take one away, they wouldn't be what they are. In this case I was just trying to drive home the point that RUSH would not be the RUSH that we know and love without the addition of Neil. It's easy to talk in that way because in the beginning, RUSH got a record deal and a tour w/out Neil. But the lyrics were just your normal run of the mill classic rock lyrics and the drumming was just average. So the addition of Neil at the point that he joined the band was a HUGE moment for RUSH as a band.   We will never know what they would have become if Rutsey stayed in the band or if they added another drummer. I would think they would have made some great music, but there is no way, IMO, they would be in the class they are now w/out the addition of Neil. So I think I got a little over zealous in making that point.   So I admit it, you are completely right on that. But in my defense, I am a Neil "apologist" so I have to completely leave reason at the door when I talk about Neil!   From the "Alex and Geddy only" thread: QUOTE (Presto-a RUSH fan! @ Mar 5 2012, 03:05 AM) QUOTE (nobodys hero @ Mar 4 2012, 11:25 PM) I  Geddy, always have always will. I truly believe you would not have the band we see today without him. Yeah, Alex is an awesome guitarist, but Geddy's unique voice and his multitasking ability make the band IMHO. If he were not able to do this, Rush would be a much bigger band to cover all the parts Ged does, and I think that would change the dynamics of the band dramatically. I totally agree. BUT that argument can be made for all three guys. Without Alex, there would be no RUSH, period, since he started the band. Also, I think the music would be so much different. Alex's ability to do things unconventionally and also to not be obsessed with making the guitar the lead instrument in every song, like most lead guitarists tend to want to do. Plus he handles most the business side so that is a huge deal as well. W/out Neil RUSH might still have been great, but a TOTALLY different band altogether. Again, imagine if Geddy still wrote the lyrics. I'm not saying they'd be terrible because Geddy can write lyrics, they'd just be so different that I would bet that they would not still be around without Neil writing all those legendary lyrics. That is why I think RUSH is the perfect band. Three guys, all playing different roles, but each vastly important.   Hence:   + + =   Oh shyt...I mentioned "the guy who hits things with sticks"....sorry!   Yes...I quoted myself to contradict myself! Again, I'm !

[udanax]

Neil would be a happier person if he were JS Bach. Bach lived in obscurity and died in obscurity. It wasn't until the middle of the Romantic Period when his music was re-discovered. Unfortunately Neil's style of music isn't considered to be "Art music-y refined" enough to get himself ignored by the generic fan community. I've met some musicians and composers at this point (That I would actually argue are better than Neil), including one who has won a Pulitzer Prize and a Grammy. I had the opportunity to pick his brain a little bit too which was awesome. It was David Lang, but that was a completely different situation. Unfortunately Neil does not give percussionist (I don't play any percussion instruments except for clapping in Musicianship skills) or lyrical writing master classes lol, but I am thankful for his books. Edited March 5, 2012 by udanax

[circumstantial tree]

Too many people credit Neil with the success of Rush but you have to remember that the record label was still about ready to drop the band after "Caress of Steel". They got incredibly lucky with "2112", his third attempt.

[metaldad]

QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Mar 5 2012, 09:59 AM)

Too many people credit Neil with the success of Rush but you have to remember that the record label was still about ready to drop the band after "Caress of Steel". They got incredibly lucky with "2112", his third attempt.

[Lerxster]

QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Mar 5 2012, 09:59 AM)

Too many people credit Neil with the success of Rush but you have to remember that the record label was still about ready to drop the band after "Caress of Steel". They got incredibly lucky with "2112", his third attempt.

How did you come to the conclusion that "too many people" give Neil the credit for Rush's success. And, why do you seemingly suggest that Rush got lucky with 2112 because of Neil and his 3rd attempt (thereby giving Neil too much credit for Rush's success). And lastly, why dont people talk about Alex or Geddy more?

[metaldad]

QUOTE (Lerxster @ Mar 5 2012, 01:35 PM)

And lastly, why dont people talk about Alex or Geddy more?

I wish they would, they Write the music . Everyone seems to think that if Neil never joined , it would have been the end of the band . Plenty of Great drummers in the world. Al and Ged would have found someone

[Lerxster]

QUOTE (metaldad @ Mar 5 2012, 02:24 PM)

QUOTE (Lerxster @ Mar 5 2012, 01:35 PM) And lastly, why dont people talk about Alex or Geddy more? I wish they would, they Write the music . Everyone seems to think that if Neil never joined , it would have been the end of the band . Plenty of Great drummers in the world. Al and Ged would have found someone Yes, they would have found a good drummer. But, above any other factor, would Rush have lasted 38 years and STILL counting? Unlikely, says I.

[metaldad]

QUOTE (Lerxster @ Mar 5 2012, 02:39 PM)

QUOTE (metaldad @ Mar 5 2012, 02:24 PM) QUOTE (Lerxster @ Mar 5 2012, 01:35 PM) And lastly, why dont people talk about Alex or Geddy more? I wish they would, they Write the music . Everyone seems to think that if Neil never joined , it would have been the end of the band . Plenty of Great drummers in the world. Al and Ged would have found someone Yes, they would have found a good drummer. But, above any other factor, would Rush have lasted 38 years and STILL counting? Unlikely, says I. 38 Years is a long time, but if another drummer worked just as well, ya never know

[New Digital Man]

QUOTE (metaldad @ Mar 5 2012, 02:24 PM)

QUOTE (Lerxster @ Mar 5 2012, 01:35 PM) And lastly, why dont people talk about Alex or Geddy more? I wish they would, they Write the music . Everyone seems to think that if Neil never joined , it would have been the end of the band . Plenty of Great drummers in the world. Al and Ged would have found someone Lots of great drummers out there but how many write lyrics and then how many write lyrics in the quality of Neil? Actually how many songwriters out there write lyrics that approach the quality of Neils? I can think of Bob Dylan and Joni Mitchell, who else?

[metaldad]

QUOTE (New Digital Man @ Mar 5 2012, 04:27 PM)

QUOTE (metaldad @ Mar 5 2012, 02:24 PM) QUOTE (Lerxster @ Mar 5 2012, 01:35 PM) And lastly, why dont people talk about Alex or Geddy more? I wish they would, they Write the music . Everyone seems to think that if Neil never joined , it would have been the end of the band . Plenty of Great drummers in the world. Al and Ged would have found someone Lots of great drummers out there but how many write lyrics and then how many write lyrics in the quality of Neil? Actually how many songwriters out there write lyrics that approach the quality of Neils? I can think of Bob Dylan and Joni Mitchell, who else? More than a few Fans hate his lyrics now , just read this forum

[Presto-a RUSH fan!]

QUOTE (metaldad @ Mar 5 2012, 03:24 PM)

QUOTE (Lerxster @ Mar 5 2012, 01:35 PM) And lastly, why dont people talk about Alex or Geddy more? I wish they would, they Write the music . Everyone seems to think that if Neil never joined , it would have been the end of the band . Plenty of Great drummers in the world. Al and Ged would have found someone   IMO, you are so wrong on this...sorry. While I maintain that RUSH would have still made great MUSIC without Neil, I doubt we would be here today on this forum without Neil. And to say "they were about to dump the band after CoS" is ridiculous. Sure they were, but you know what Neil did? He said f**k you, along with Geddy and Alex's approval, and wrote one of the most legendary albums in RUSH history in 2112. An album that gave RUSH the freedom to write whatever they wanted. If it weren't for Neil's "f-u" nature at that point, we wouldn't have 2112 or Hemispheres or any other longer, thought provoking songs like Natural Science that, I can safely say, almost all of us LOVE. Granted if Neil didn't join the band, there would have still been a RUSH but it would have been a vastly different band. Neil writes lyrics that are thought provoking and just amazing. If another drummer came in and wrote the lyrics, or if Geddy and Alex wrote them, they would most likely be a run of the mill band with excellent musicianship but "Baby, I love you, I want to meet you after the show and get it on" type of songs. I can almost guarantee that since that is what the debut is like and that was the thinking in those day on rock lyrics. Write about sex, drugs and rock and roll. Now, they may have been popular...maybe even more popular. Because alot of people love those kind of songs, especially then. But they wouldn't be the RUSH that has us posting on a forum some 38 years later.   Again, imagine a RUSH without 2112, MP, Signals, p/g, Permanent Waves, AFTK etc etc etc. It would be a RUSH that, who knows, maybe they'd be the most popular band from that time period, but I doubt alot of us would still be here talking about them, since most RUSH fans are just in love with the lyrics up until the past 16 years.   And to say adding another "drummer" would have been ok is like saying the same about Geddy. Well we could have gotten a different bass player who sang also. Yeah....and it wouldn't be the voice that "most" of us love and the bass playing that inspired probably 10's of thousands of people to pick up an instrument that normally you hear the story of why someone plays base and it's "well, I played guitar, but the band needed a bass player so I switched to bass". I think Geddy, and of course there are other bass players, inspired people to play bass when guitar was thought of as the "cool" instrument. Neil is arguably the best drummer to "ever hit things with sticks" as one "fan" suggests. He is also the man who wrote Subdivisions which one "fan" said had a huge impact on his life, but now he's just "sick of Neil writing what Neil wants" (paraphrase) and wants him to write about spaceships and Lord of the Rings.   So, IMO, you couldn't be more wrong with your comment. Again, it's kinda a stupid argument because we will never know, but since I am a Neil apologist, I can't let that comment just slide by.   Earlier in this thread someone argued Neil is only 33% of the band I asserted that it could be argued he is more like 40 to 50% of the band. I was wrong to make that assertion. RUSH would not be RUSH without each member of this band. Each one of them brings a unique skill set, personality and duty, that without any one of these members, RUSH would be like a three legged stool. If you take away one of the legs, it won't stand. That simple analogy works the same for RUSH. You take away any one of those members you wouldn't have RUSH. Say you took Eddie Van Halen and substituted him for Alex. Sure, a lot of people consider EVH to be the best guitar player to ever live. But on the flip side, they would have probably broke up, the songs would be over the top on guitar and they would have put out at most about 12 albums, that is if Geddy and Neil didn't quit or hire a new guitarist.   We are simply the luckiest fans in the world. RUSH is the best band to ever step on a stage, and to mitigate Neil's importance, or Alex or Geddy's for that matter is just simply wrong...again, all of this is in my, fanboy, Neil apologist point of view and just my opinion. This and .50 cents will get you...well, I was gonna say a cup of coffee but I think I'd have to change that to 2 gum balls from a gum ball machine!

[Tony R]

Always amazes me how relatively newbies to the band claim to know so much about the motivation and creative impetus of a band that was already past their sell by date before they became fans.

 

Lee and Lifeson wrote all the music, they were the creative spark. Neil just provided the clothes pegs for Lee and Lifeson to hang their coats on.

[Terrapin]

QUOTE (metaldad @ Mar 5 2012, 07:24 PM)

QUOTE (Lerxster @ Mar 5 2012, 01:35 PM) And lastly, why dont people talk about Alex or Geddy more? I wish they would, they Write the music . Everyone seems to think that if Neil never joined , it would have been the end of the band . Plenty of Great drummers in the world. Al and Ged would have found someone Kinda somes up your knowledge of band ethos and the subsequent dynamic

[Terrapin]

QUOTE (Tony R @ Mar 5 2012, 11:03 PM)

Always amazes me how relatively newbies to the band claim to know so much about the motivation and creative impetus of a band that was already past their sell by date before they became fans. Lee and Lifeson wrote all the music, they were the creative spark. Neil just provided the clothes pegs for Lee and Lifeson to hang their coats on.

Really?

 

Hanging around with the band back in 1974 - present with your little prog archive note pad were you?

 

I think not.

[Presto-a RUSH fan!]

QUOTE (Tony R @ Mar 5 2012, 07:03 PM)

Always amazes me how relatively newbies to the band claim to know so much about the motivation and creative impetus of a band that was already past their sell by date before they became fans. Lee and Lifeson wrote all the music, they were the creative spark. Neil just provided the clothes pegs for Lee and Lifeson to hang their coats on.

So what is the definition of a "newbie". I guess since I became a HUGE fan in 1990 on Presto, I am a "newbie". I've only been a fan for 22 of their 38 years. Just because you happen to find a band after they start, doesn't mean you don't love them or know the history as well as someone who has been there from day one. Sure I don't have stories about getting the albums or going to concerts before Presto, but I still have the ability to read the RUSH books, learn the history, watch the DVDs of early performances and I am still aloud to listen to pre-1990 music and enjoy it. In fact, my favorite RUSH albums are mostly pre-Presto.

 

I love when people get this idea that because they have been around from the beginning, their opinion is so much more valid than others. I get it if the fan just found RUSH on Snakes & Arrows but to say something like what you just said, just shows an elitist snobbery.

 

IMO, of course.

 

[Terrapin]

QUOTE (Presto-a RUSH fan! @ Mar 5 2012, 11:29 PM)

QUOTE (Tony R @ Mar 5 2012, 07:03 PM) Always amazes me how relatively newbies to the band claim to know so much about the motivation and creative impetus of a band that was already past their sell by date before they became fans. Lee and Lifeson wrote all the music, they were the creative spark. Neil just provided the clothes pegs for Lee and Lifeson to hang their coats on. So what is the definition of a "newbie". I guess since I became a HUGE fan in 1990 on Presto, I am a "newbie". I've only been a fan for 22 of their 38 years. Just because you happen to find a band after they start, doesn't mean you don't love them or know the history as well as someone who has been there from day one. Sure I don't have stories about getting the albums or going to concerts before Presto, but I still have the ability to read the RUSH books, learn the history, watch the DVDs of early performances and I am still aloud to listen to pre-1990 music and enjoy it. In fact, my favorite RUSH albums are mostly pre-Presto.   I love when people get this idea that because they have been around from the beginning, their opinion is so much more valid than others. I get it if the fan just found RUSH on Snakes & Arrows but to say something like what you just said, just shows an elitist snobbery.   IMO, of course.   Tony R and those of his ilk are what are known as "Prog Snobs". For them, it's not about the music. It's about trying to USE said music in a contrived and manufactured way in which to further their own little agendas.   Sad but true...

[Presto-a RUSH fan!]

QUOTE (Terrapin @ Mar 5 2012, 07:39 PM)

QUOTE (Presto-a RUSH fan! @ Mar 5 2012, 11:29 PM) QUOTE (Tony R @ Mar 5 2012, 07:03 PM) Always amazes me how relatively newbies to the band claim to know so much about the motivation and creative impetus of a band that was already past their sell by date before they became fans. Lee and Lifeson wrote all the music, they were the creative spark. Neil just provided the clothes pegs for Lee and Lifeson to hang their coats on. So what is the definition of a "newbie". I guess since I became a HUGE fan in 1990 on Presto, I am a "newbie". I've only been a fan for 22 of their 38 years. Just because you happen to find a band after they start, doesn't mean you don't love them or know the history as well as someone who has been there from day one. Sure I don't have stories about getting the albums or going to concerts before Presto, but I still have the ability to read the RUSH books, learn the history, watch the DVDs of early performances and I am still aloud to listen to pre-1990 music and enjoy it. In fact, my favorite RUSH albums are mostly pre-Presto.   I love when people get this idea that because they have been around from the beginning, their opinion is so much more valid than others. I get it if the fan just found RUSH on Snakes & Arrows but to say something like what you just said, just shows an elitist snobbery.   IMO, of course.   Tony R and those of his ilk are what are known as "Prog Snobs". For them, it's not about the music. It's about trying to USE said music in a contrived and manufactured way in which to further their own little agendas.   Sad but true...   Wow...I'd like to take you opinion seriously, but seeing that you are a "newbie" to TRF, you obviously don't know what you are talking about! JUST KIDDING!   I could NOT agree more!

[Terrapin]

QUOTE (Presto-a RUSH fan! @ Mar 5 2012, 11:46 PM)

QUOTE (Terrapin @ Mar 5 2012, 07:39 PM) QUOTE (Presto-a RUSH fan! @ Mar 5 2012, 11:29 PM) QUOTE (Tony R @ Mar 5 2012, 07:03 PM) Always amazes me how relatively newbies to the band claim to know so much about the motivation and creative impetus of a band that was already past their sell by date before they became fans. Lee and Lifeson wrote all the music, they were the creative spark. Neil just provided the clothes pegs for Lee and Lifeson to hang their coats on. So what is the definition of a "newbie". I guess since I became a HUGE fan in 1990 on Presto, I am a "newbie". I've only been a fan for 22 of their 38 years. Just because you happen to find a band after they start, doesn't mean you don't love them or know the history as well as someone who has been there from day one. Sure I don't have stories about getting the albums or going to concerts before Presto, but I still have the ability to read the RUSH books, learn the history, watch the DVDs of early performances and I am still aloud to listen to pre-1990 music and enjoy it. In fact, my favorite RUSH albums are mostly pre-Presto.   I love when people get this idea that because they have been around from the beginning, their opinion is so much more valid than others. I get it if the fan just found RUSH on Snakes & Arrows but to say something like what you just said, just shows an elitist snobbery.   IMO, of course.   Tony R and those of his ilk are what are known as "Prog Snobs". For them, it's not about the music. It's about trying to USE said music in a contrived and manufactured way in which to further their own little agendas.   Sad but true...   Wow...I'd like to take you opinion seriously, but seeing that you are a "newbie" to TRF, you obviously don't know what you are talking about! JUST KIDDING!   I could NOT agree more!   Ha ha! Well, I'm a 45 year old pro musician. I've been out in the field for about 25 years working my fingers off as a real muso.   Discovered Rush at about 15, bought every album after.   Still, I must be a "newbie" according to those that have the time to post 24/7   Cheers!

[GeminiRising79]

QUOTE (HowItIs @ Mar 5 2012, 02:46 AM)

The problem is you Neil apologists aren't looking at him as equals with yourselves. You consider him superior and willingly accept a servile/sycophantic position.]

Neil is a human being - just like the rest of us.

Sounds like you're not completely convinced.

[Presto-a RUSH fan!]

QUOTE (Terrapin @ Mar 5 2012, 08:10 PM)

QUOTE (Presto-a RUSH fan! @ Mar 5 2012, 11:46 PM) QUOTE (Terrapin @ Mar 5 2012, 07:39 PM) QUOTE (Presto-a RUSH fan! @ Mar 5 2012, 11:29 PM) QUOTE (Tony R @ Mar 5 2012, 07:03 PM) Always amazes me how relatively newbies to the band claim to know so much about the motivation and creative impetus of a band that was already past their sell by date before they became fans. Lee and Lifeson wrote all the music, they were the creative spark. Neil just provided the clothes pegs for Lee and Lifeson to hang their coats on. So what is the definition of a "newbie". I guess since I became a HUGE fan in 1990 on Presto, I am a "newbie". I've only been a fan for 22 of their 38 years. Just because you happen to find a band after they start, doesn't mean you don't love them or know the history as well as someone who has been there from day one. Sure I don't have stories about getting the albums or going to concerts before Presto, but I still have the ability to read the RUSH books, learn the history, watch the DVDs of early performances and I am still aloud to listen to pre-1990 music and enjoy it. In fact, my favorite RUSH albums are mostly pre-Presto.   I love when people get this idea that because they have been around from the beginning, their opinion is so much more valid than others. I get it if the fan just found RUSH on Snakes & Arrows but to say something like what you just said, just shows an elitist snobbery.   IMO, of course.   Tony R and those of his ilk are what are known as "Prog Snobs". For them, it's not about the music. It's about trying to USE said music in a contrived and manufactured way in which to further their own little agendas.   Sad but true...   Wow...I'd like to take you opinion seriously, but seeing that you are a "newbie" to TRF, you obviously don't know what you are talking about! JUST KIDDING!   I could NOT agree more!   Ha ha! Well, I'm a 45 year old pro musician. I've been out in the field for about 25 years working my fingers off as a real muso.   Discovered Rush at about 15, bought every album after.   Still, I must be a "newbie" according to those that have the time to post 24/7   Cheers! Well, due to semi-recent circumstances, I have the ability to post 24/7 but I surely don't consider someone new to TRF to be a "newbie" to RUSH. I joined TRF in Aug 2010 but that didn't mean that I was new to RUSH. Of course alot of times you get treated that way.   I'm glad you're here! Most the members on TRF are level headed and pleasant. It's the people like you and them that drown out the know-it-all, name callers who act like they are gracing us with their presence by posting on TRF.   Welcome to TRF!     PS. As some would like to believe, being nice and respectful, isn't a bad thing. And also, those people who think that being nice and respectful is just a way to "promote" yourself, as one brilliant poster once said to me, that is just ignorant. That said, please vote for me in the coming TRF Presidential and Most Influential and Knowledgeable Poster, election!