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Neil Peart News Updated


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QUOTE (danielmclark @ Jan 21 2012, 03:41 PM)
QUOTE (Presto-a RUSH fan! @ Jan 21 2012, 01:08 PM)
I have to disagree.  While faith is believing something that you can't prove to be true, you don't have to take it on someone else's word.  You can also "test" faith in certain ways and while those tests are not scientific or may mean nothing to the next person, they mean something to you.  They "prove" something to you.  I don't think you quite have the correct way of thinking about faith, and for the 20th time, this comes from someone who has very little of it.  What you are describing, at least in my eyes is the way a hypocrite uses faith. And I am not saying you are the hypocrite, just that, that is how a hypocrite uses faith. But that is just my opinion.  Again, I could be wrong.

<snip>

I won't quote the whole thing to save scrolling time wink.gif

 

I think we're pretty much on the same page, too, with a few exceptions. Maybe the way I described it is the way a hypocrite uses or defines faith (no offense taken, I'm agnostic, so whatever wink.gif). But you said that you don't have to take it on someone else's word. You're right that faith once established doesn't have to be, but babies are born blank slates. Birth a child and raise him in the absence of faith-based or religious teachings, and he'll never come up with the idea of god. At some point, someone has to tell that kid about god and it is usually coupled with "and you should believe in god, and be a good worshipper or bad things will happen to you." There are whole swaths of the world where people have never heard of god and missionaries have to go there and teach - well, why? Why is it necessary? Because in the absence of teaching, faith (perhaps more accurately, religion) can never be established.

 

Religion and faith are related but different, and I perhaps could have differentiated them more in my previous post. Religion is 100% pure "because I said so". Leaders of the church (and I'm not picking on Christians, I mean the leaders of whatever religion) tend to their flocks with teachings that all come down to "because I said so". And that "because I said so" is backed up with faith. Someone tells you what to believe (let's be honest, that's what happens - religions are defined by what they believe in) and then they say "believe it, have faith in what I'm saying... because I said so."

 

Some have told me before that it's not "because I said so", it's "because the Bible (or other holy book) says so". Well, those books were all written by people. So... that's not proof. At best, it's "because they said so" biggrin.gif

 

As for the Contact movie - it supports my point. Faith and religion are all about "because I said so". When asked if she loves her father, she says yes, and he says prove it? At that point, the response should have been, "because I said so. Just like your belief in god."

While I agree with some of the things you said, there are some things I don't.

 

My basic disagreement with you is your notion that faith is "because I told you so." Even with the little amount I have, this is not the case, AT LEAST FOR ME. My faith comes from life experiences. When I say life experience I mean I should be dead right now and I am not. Someday soon I am going to write out a brief story of my life as it relates to faith in God. I may post it in the SOCN, but I might just email it to friends I have met on TRF that I have mentioned things in private to that are interested.

 

But faith, at least for me, is based on things that have happened to me that I can't explain. Again, that could be seen as what you are saying "believe because I said so" type of thing, but to me it's not that way. Atheists would probably call it coincidence. Other people might call it plain old luck. But having lived it, I can only see it as proof of a God, and based on the circumstances, faith in Jesus as the Son of God. Now I am not talking of visions or Virgin Mary's appearing on grilled cheese sandwiches or hearing voices or having supernatural things happen. Just everyday life circumstances occurring in a manner and order to lead me to only one answer...God. It's kinda hard to explain what I am talking about without giving the whole story and the whole story is long and has nothing to do with RUSH. Although the discussions we have been having lately in this thread, may in hindsight, play a part in the strengthening of my admitted weak faith.

 

For me, this faith was not derived from the Bible or a Church or a Paster/Rev/Priest or stories shared by a friend or a stranger. But by many experiences over many years that thru thoughtful review, "faith" was formed.

 

To some, this my sound like rambling nonsense. Maybe it is. But that is my disagreement with you on your definition of faith.

 

At this point, this post has surely crossed the line into of non-RUSH related so I will TRY not to post in this thread again unless it is related to Neil's lyrics as it pertains to religion.

 

To continue discussions like this, that many have been saying have crossed the line and should be in the SOCN, I have made a thread in SOCN for these very discussions. Here is a link: Religion-Faith-God ~ Belief & Non-Belief, From the "Neil Peart News Update" thread

 

Maybe we can debate and share our belief and non-belief in the new thread in the SOCN without wanting to bitchslap.gif!

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QUOTE (An Enemy Without @ Jan 22 2012, 02:28 AM)
QUOTE (The Owl @ Jan 21 2012, 11:42 PM)
You know, I kind of like Dog Years....... wink.gif

Troll.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

tongue.gif

Just trying to ease the tension with a bit o'wit

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QUOTE (lerxt1990 @ Jan 22 2012, 08:16 AM)
QUOTE (The Owl @ Jan 22 2012, 12:42 AM)
You know, I kind of like Dog Years....... wink.gif

I like Neurotica. smile.gif

Virtuality is the shit.

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QUOTE (laughedatbytime @ Jan 22 2012, 09:24 AM)
QUOTE (lerxt1990 @ Jan 22 2012, 08:16 AM)
QUOTE (The Owl @ Jan 22 2012, 12:42 AM)
You know, I kind of like Dog Years....... wink.gif

I like Neurotica. smile.gif

Virtuality is the shit.

Not as good as Rivendell! biggrin.gif

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QUOTE (danielmclark @ Jan 22 2012, 12:40 PM)
QUOTE (theredtamasrule @ Jan 22 2012, 12:38 PM)
QUOTE (lerxt1990 @ Jan 22 2012, 09:16 AM)
QUOTE (The Owl @ Jan 22 2012, 12:42 AM)
You know, I kind of like Dog Years....... wink.gif

I like Neurotica. smile.gif

That's so exotica...

It's rather chaotica, too.

What about erotica?

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QUOTE (An Enemy Without @ Jan 22 2012, 01:45 PM)

What about erotica?

It's like neurotica, but without the emotional hang-ups.... wink.gif wink.gif

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