A Great Band Fails

[rushgoober]

QUOTE (Lerxster @ Oct 28 2011, 07:32 AM)

QUOTE (Tommy Sawyer @ Oct 27 2011, 08:33 PM) Also, in my earlier post, I forgot to include Magical Mystery Tour (The Beatles). Okay, it's not that bad, but compared to the albums around it... meh. Their worst album from Revolver onward.   1 Magical Mystery Tour 2 The Fool On The Hill 3 Flying 4 Blue Jay Way 5 Your Mother Should Know 6 I Am The Walrus 7 Hello, Goodbye 8 Strawberry Fields Forever 9 Penny Lane 10 Baby You're A Rich Man 11 All You Need Is Love   Not a fail Not a stinker Dare I say it, that album is better and more consistent than Revolver.   If you REALLY need to choose a worst Beatles album, it's DEFINITELY pre-Rubber Soul...

[rushgoober]

Edited October 28, 2011 by rushgoober

[Tommy Sawyer]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Oct 28 2011, 06:56 PM)

QUOTE (Lerxster @ Oct 28 2011, 07:32 AM) QUOTE (Tommy Sawyer @ Oct 27 2011, 08:33 PM) Also, in my earlier post, I forgot to include Magical Mystery Tour (The Beatles). Okay, it's not that bad, but compared to the albums around it... meh. Their worst album from Revolver onward.   1 Magical Mystery Tour 2 The Fool On The Hill 3 Flying 4 Blue Jay Way 5 Your Mother Should Know 6 I Am The Walrus 7 Hello, Goodbye 8 Strawberry Fields Forever 9 Penny Lane 10 Baby You're A Rich Man 11 All You Need Is Love   Not a fail Not a stinker Dare I say it, that album is better and more consistent than Revolver.   If you REALLY need to choose a worst Beatles album, it's DEFINITELY pre-Rubber Soul... I didn't say the album was an epic fail. All I said was that the albums around it overshadow it majorly. Of course the pre-Rubber Soul albums are the 'worst' or whatever, but as I said Post Revolver, MMT is the weakest (or in other words the least best).   You guys are getting a little defensive, methinks.

[laughedatbytime]

Here's Revolver...

 

Side One:

 

1. "Taxman"

2. "Eleanor Rigby"

3. "I'm Only Sleeping"

4. "Love You To"

5. "Here, There and Everywhere"

6. "Yellow Submarine"

7. "She Said She Said"

 

Side Two:

 

1. "Good Day Sunshine"

2. "And Your Bird Can Sing"

3. "For No One"

4. "Doctor Robert"

5. "I Want to Tell You"

6. "Got to Get You into My Life"

7. "Tomorrow Never Knows"

 

I would take Revolver over MMT anyway. JMO...

 

My favorite two Beatles albums are Revolver and Rubber Soul...that probably puts me in the minority, I know.

[ReRushed]

QUOTE (Tommy Sawyer @ Oct 28 2011, 09:27 PM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Oct 28 2011, 06:56 PM) QUOTE (Lerxster @ Oct 28 2011, 07:32 AM) QUOTE (Tommy Sawyer @ Oct 27 2011, 08:33 PM) Also, in my earlier post, I forgot to include Magical Mystery Tour (The Beatles). Okay, it's not that bad, but compared to the albums around it... meh. Their worst album from Revolver onward.   1 Magical Mystery Tour 2 The Fool On The Hill 3 Flying 4 Blue Jay Way 5 Your Mother Should Know 6 I Am The Walrus 7 Hello, Goodbye 8 Strawberry Fields Forever 9 Penny Lane 10 Baby You're A Rich Man 11 All You Need Is Love   Not a fail Not a stinker Dare I say it, that album is better and more consistent than Revolver.   If you REALLY need to choose a worst Beatles album, it's DEFINITELY pre-Rubber Soul... I didn't say the album was an epic fail. All I said was that the albums around it overshadow it majorly. Of course the pre-Rubber Soul albums are the 'worst' or whatever, but as I said Post Revolver, MMT is the weakest (or in other words the least best).   You guys are getting a little defensive, methinks. So, would you say Let It Be is underrated?   As for Magical Mystery Tour, as an EP, yes, it's the weakest post-Revolver release. But, adding "Penny Lane" and "Strawberry Fields Forever" makes it essential and a near masterpiece.

[USB Connector]

QUOTE (ghostworks @ Oct 28 2011, 11:06 AM)

QUOTE (USB Connector @ Oct 27 2011, 08:25 PM) QUOTE (ghostworks @ Oct 26 2011, 10:27 PM) QUOTE (USB Connector @ Oct 26 2011, 08:48 PM) Caress of Steel - Rush Hold Your Fire - Rush you're gonna need to turn in your Backstage Fan Club card tonight if you think COS and HYF are bigger 'failures' than RTB and T4E I beg to differ... differ all you like   I read your post - it's thoughtful and detailed, but not objective   the title of the thread seems to have escaped you:   "A Great Band Fails, What is their worst album?"   ^ to me, that title presupposes that you're objective enough to list a 'favorite' album of yours as their worst, despite your personal attachments   for instance, I would never claim that '2112' is Rush's worst, despite the fact that I personally find that album an embarrassment to their catalog, and rate it second to last (RTB remains their ultimate sin)   likewise, I enjoy 'Driven', 'Totem', 'Time & Motion' and 'T4E' quite a bit, but the album as a whole (especially when weighed against the rest of their back catalog) is all but a complete failure   I get that you listen to and 'like' RTB (Roll the Bones, Heresy and Where's My Thing) more than COS (Bastille Day, Lakeside Park), but COS is the superior album in every other respect   objectively, there's no debate here You seem to be under the impression that there is a neutral/objective way to approach an opinion. The thread asked if there was an album where a great band failed. The only objective way to approach that would be to look at sales and assume that sales=quality. Otherwise, everyone is entitled to an opinion. IMO, 2112 is a very good album, Tears, Lessons, Passage to Bangkok, the whole lot. I don't see why people dislike the B side. I see HyF, for the most part, as generic synthesized crap and CoS as a very rough transition state. This may not be your view, it may not be Tommy Sawyer's view, it may not be the view of anyone reading this thread, but it is my view and you cannot tell me it is wrong.   If you have an objection to this, please tell me. How does one asses good/bad music objectively? Is there some scientifically based awesomeness meter?   You are completely right in there being no debate, because you can't debate an opinion.

Edited October 29, 2011 by USB Connector

[teababe27]

Queensryche - everything after Hear in the Now Frontier

Iron Maiden - Virtual XI

Metallica - St. Anger

Black Sabbath - Technical Ecstasy

Machine Head - Supercharger, The Burning Red

Megadeth - Risk

[ReRushed]

QUOTE (USB Connector @ Oct 28 2011, 10:25 PM)

You are completely right in there being no debate, because you can't debate an opinion.

You most certainly can! Are you saying all opinions are correct? Or moral? Or ethical? Opinions can most certainly be debated!

[danielmclark]

QUOTE (ReRushed @ Oct 28 2011, 08:51 PM)

QUOTE (USB Connector @ Oct 28 2011, 10:25 PM) You are completely right in there being no debate, because you can't debate an opinion. You most certainly can! Are you saying all opinions are correct? Or moral? Or ethical? Opinions can most certainly be debated! Opinions are the only things that can be debated. You can't argue a fact. The sky is blue. Fact. You can't debate that. Van Halen was better with Dave! Opinion. Verrrry debatable

[ReRushed]

QUOTE (danielmclark @ Oct 28 2011, 10:55 PM)

QUOTE (ReRushed @ Oct 28 2011, 08:51 PM) QUOTE (USB Connector @ Oct 28 2011, 10:25 PM) You are completely right in there being no debate, because you can't debate an opinion. You most certainly can! Are you saying all opinions are correct? Or moral? Or ethical? Opinions can most certainly be debated! Opinions are the only things that can be debated. You can't argue a fact. The sky is blue. Fact. You can't debate that. Van Halen was better with Dave! Opinion. Verrrry debatable That's the fact, Jack!

[Tommy Sawyer]

QUOTE (ReRushed @ Oct 28 2011, 10:23 PM)

QUOTE (Tommy Sawyer @ Oct 28 2011, 09:27 PM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Oct 28 2011, 06:56 PM) QUOTE (Lerxster @ Oct 28 2011, 07:32 AM) QUOTE (Tommy Sawyer @ Oct 27 2011, 08:33 PM) Also, in my earlier post, I forgot to include Magical Mystery Tour (The Beatles). Okay, it's not that bad, but compared to the albums around it... meh. Their worst album from Revolver onward.   1 Magical Mystery Tour 2 The Fool On The Hill 3 Flying 4 Blue Jay Way 5 Your Mother Should Know 6 I Am The Walrus 7 Hello, Goodbye 8 Strawberry Fields Forever 9 Penny Lane 10 Baby You're A Rich Man 11 All You Need Is Love   Not a fail Not a stinker Dare I say it, that album is better and more consistent than Revolver.   If you REALLY need to choose a worst Beatles album, it's DEFINITELY pre-Rubber Soul... I didn't say the album was an epic fail. All I said was that the albums around it overshadow it majorly. Of course the pre-Rubber Soul albums are the 'worst' or whatever, but as I said Post Revolver, MMT is the weakest (or in other words the least best).   You guys are getting a little defensive, methinks. So, would you say Let It Be is underrated?   As for Magical Mystery Tour, as an EP, yes, it's the weakest post-Revolver release. But, adding "Penny Lane" and "Strawberry Fields Forever" makes it essential and a near masterpiece. Let it Be is very underrated.

[GrandDesigner]

While I hate to say this as they're one of my favorite bands, but dredg's Chuckles & Mr. Squeezy was just way too awkward sounding. Considering the masterpiece of an album that came before it (and before that, and before that as well) it just left me scratching my head, along with mostly every other dredg fan. Luckily the tour was incredible, so that was reassuring.

 

 

[drbirdsong]

QUOTE (laughedatbytime @ Oct 28 2011, 08:40 PM)

My favorite two Beatles albums are Revolver and Rubber Soul...that probably puts me in the minority, I know.

You are not alone. In a excellent catalog those two stand the test of time and are remarkably consistent. There are no fails from The Beatles while they were still together. Maybe some other bands should have quit while they were ahead.

 

 

[USB Connector]

QUOTE (ReRushed @ Oct 28 2011, 10:59 PM)

QUOTE (danielmclark @ Oct 28 2011, 10:55 PM) QUOTE (ReRushed @ Oct 28 2011, 08:51 PM) QUOTE (USB Connector @ Oct 28 2011, 10:25 PM) You are completely right in there being no debate, because you can't debate an opinion. You most certainly can! Are you saying all opinions are correct? Or moral? Or ethical? Opinions can most certainly be debated! Opinions are the only things that can be debated. You can't argue a fact. The sky is blue. Fact. You can't debate that. Van Halen was better with Dave! Opinion. Verrrry debatable That's the fact, Jack! My mistake, I wasn't thinking at the time. The thought that was in my head at the time of writing that post was how Europeans conquered less developed civilizations with the justification that they had higher tastes in art, music, etc and that those civilizations were barbarians for believing otherwise.   My temporary lapse of insanity aside, I still maintain that both CoS and HyF are Rush's largest failures, along with Boston's Corporate America, Led Zep's Coda and Metallica's St-Anger. I stick with the reasons mentioned in my previous posts.

[lerxt1990]

QUOTE (laughedatbytime @ Oct 28 2011, 09:40 PM)

Here's Revolver... Side One: 1. "Taxman" 2. "Eleanor Rigby" 3. "I'm Only Sleeping" 4. "Love You To" 5. "Here, There and Everywhere" 6. "Yellow Submarine" 7. "She Said She Said" Side Two: 1. "Good Day Sunshine" 2. "And Your Bird Can Sing" 3. "For No One" 4. "Doctor Robert" 5. "I Want to Tell You" 6. "Got to Get You into My Life" 7. "Tomorrow Never Knows" I would take Revolver over MMT anyway. JMO... My favorite two Beatles albums are Revolver and Rubber Soul...that probably puts me in the minority, I know.

I know what its like to be dead.

[Lerxster]

QUOTE (Tommy Sawyer @ Oct 28 2011, 08:27 PM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Oct 28 2011, 06:56 PM) QUOTE (Lerxster @ Oct 28 2011, 07:32 AM) QUOTE (Tommy Sawyer @ Oct 27 2011, 08:33 PM) Also, in my earlier post, I forgot to include Magical Mystery Tour (The Beatles). Okay, it's not that bad, but compared to the albums around it... meh. Their worst album from Revolver onward.   1 Magical Mystery Tour 2 The Fool On The Hill 3 Flying 4 Blue Jay Way 5 Your Mother Should Know 6 I Am The Walrus 7 Hello, Goodbye 8 Strawberry Fields Forever 9 Penny Lane 10 Baby You're A Rich Man 11 All You Need Is Love   Not a fail Not a stinker Dare I say it, that album is better and more consistent than Revolver.   If you REALLY need to choose a worst Beatles album, it's DEFINITELY pre-Rubber Soul... I didn't say the album was an epic fail. All I said was that the albums around it overshadow it majorly. Of course the pre-Rubber Soul albums are the 'worst' or whatever, but as I said Post Revolver, MMT is the weakest (or in other words the least best).   You guys are getting a little defensive, methinks. I know what you were saying, but when I looked back at the title A Great Band Fails and OP asks "What band that you really enjoy had a real stinker in their catalog?". Well... MMT? I thought to myself, "YOU MUST RESPOND!"

[rushgoober]

QUOTE (Tommy Sawyer @ Oct 28 2011, 06:27 PM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Oct 28 2011, 06:56 PM) QUOTE (Lerxster @ Oct 28 2011, 07:32 AM) QUOTE (Tommy Sawyer @ Oct 27 2011, 08:33 PM) Also, in my earlier post, I forgot to include Magical Mystery Tour (The Beatles). Okay, it's not that bad, but compared to the albums around it... meh. Their worst album from Revolver onward.   1 Magical Mystery Tour 2 The Fool On The Hill 3 Flying 4 Blue Jay Way 5 Your Mother Should Know 6 I Am The Walrus 7 Hello, Goodbye 8 Strawberry Fields Forever 9 Penny Lane 10 Baby You're A Rich Man 11 All You Need Is Love   Not a fail Not a stinker Dare I say it, that album is better and more consistent than Revolver.   If you REALLY need to choose a worst Beatles album, it's DEFINITELY pre-Rubber Soul... I didn't say the album was an epic fail. All I said was that the albums around it overshadow it majorly. Of course the pre-Rubber Soul albums are the 'worst' or whatever, but as I said Post Revolver, MMT is the weakest (or in other words the least best).   You guys are getting a little defensive, methinks. I do understand that's what you were saying. I was just adding in my two cents. For me, and again this will be blasphemy to some, and going against conventional wisdom, but of the Beatles material from Rubber Soul onwards, the worst is Rubber Soul, and the 2nd worst is Revolver. Everything from Sgt. Peppers onwards is golden, and has no business being on a list of least favorite anything IMHO. Sure, I have my preferences of their last few albums, but they're all completely amazing. Perhaps in that era my least favorite would be Yellow Submarine, but ONLY because it's half of a Beatles album, with the other half being orchestral music (good, but not the Beatles).   So if I come across a bit defensive about The Beatles, I'm ok with that.   Honestly, I don't own any pre-Rubber Soul Beatles album, and from what I have heard from that period, I have no interest in owning any of that. I much prefer The Beatles when they started breaking free of 'love songs and only love songs.' I'm glad I have some of the early tracks on the 1 album, but still it's not my favorite period.

[rushgoober]

QUOTE (danielmclark @ Oct 28 2011, 07:55 PM)

QUOTE (ReRushed @ Oct 28 2011, 08:51 PM) QUOTE (USB Connector @ Oct 28 2011, 10:25 PM) You are completely right in there being no debate, because you can't debate an opinion. You most certainly can! Are you saying all opinions are correct? Or moral? Or ethical? Opinions can most certainly be debated! Opinions are the only things that can be debated. You can't argue a fact. The sky is blue. Fact. You can't debate that. Van Halen was better with Dave! Opinion. Verrrry debatable I agree with this, except for the fact that Van Halen was objectively better with DLR. THAT is not up for debate as it is absolute objective FACT.   Ok, it's not really objective truth, but it should be!

[Can-Utility]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Oct 29 2011, 09:19 AM)

QUOTE (danielmclark @ Oct 28 2011, 07:55 PM) QUOTE (ReRushed @ Oct 28 2011, 08:51 PM) QUOTE (USB Connector @ Oct 28 2011, 10:25 PM) You are completely right in there being no debate, because you can't debate an opinion. You most certainly can! Are you saying all opinions are correct? Or moral? Or ethical? Opinions can most certainly be debated! Opinions are the only things that can be debated. You can't argue a fact. The sky is blue. Fact. You can't debate that. Van Halen was better with Dave! Opinion. Verrrry debatable I agree with this, except for the fact that Van Halen was objectively better with DLR. THAT is not up for debate as it is absolute objective FACT.   Ok, it's not really objective truth, but it should be! The only objective truth regarding Van Halen is that they blow.

[rushgoober]

QUOTE (Can-Utility @ Oct 29 2011, 09:22 AM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Oct 29 2011, 09:19 AM) QUOTE (danielmclark @ Oct 28 2011, 07:55 PM) QUOTE (ReRushed @ Oct 28 2011, 08:51 PM) QUOTE (USB Connector @ Oct 28 2011, 10:25 PM) You are completely right in there being no debate, because you can't debate an opinion. You most certainly can! Are you saying all opinions are correct? Or moral? Or ethical? Opinions can most certainly be debated! Opinions are the only things that can be debated. You can't argue a fact. The sky is blue. Fact. You can't debate that. Van Halen was better with Dave! Opinion. Verrrry debatable I agree with this, except for the fact that Van Halen was objectively better with DLR. THAT is not up for debate as it is absolute objective FACT.   Ok, it's not really objective truth, but it should be! The only objective truth regarding Van Halen is that they blow. Ah, if only you could have seen them live in their prime with DLR at the helm...

[Can-Utility]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Oct 29 2011, 09:32 AM)

QUOTE (Can-Utility @ Oct 29 2011, 09:22 AM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Oct 29 2011, 09:19 AM) QUOTE (danielmclark @ Oct 28 2011, 07:55 PM) QUOTE (ReRushed @ Oct 28 2011, 08:51 PM) QUOTE (USB Connector @ Oct 28 2011, 10:25 PM) You are completely right in there being no debate, because you can't debate an opinion. You most certainly can! Are you saying all opinions are correct? Or moral? Or ethical? Opinions can most certainly be debated! Opinions are the only things that can be debated. You can't argue a fact. The sky is blue. Fact. You can't debate that. Van Halen was better with Dave! Opinion. Verrrry debatable I agree with this, except for the fact that Van Halen was objectively better with DLR. THAT is not up for debate as it is absolute objective FACT.   Ok, it's not really objective truth, but it should be! The only objective truth regarding Van Halen is that they blow. Ah, if only you could have seen them live in their prime with DLR at the helm...   Anyway.. Gary have you heard Domino? If there's one "redeeming" track for Phil era Genesis that's the one.

[Silas Lang]

QUOTE (Rick N. Backer @ Oct 27 2011, 08:15 AM)

QUOTE (driventotheedge @ Oct 26 2011, 04:46 PM) Rolling Stones - Her Satanic Majesties Request.....there's a couple of good songs on this album, particularly 2000 Light Years From Home, but let's face it, they were trying to do their own Sgt. Pepper and that ain't what the Stones are. They're R&B/straight forward rock 'n roll band. Their Satanic Majesties' Request. And I actually like that album. You have to be in the mood to listen to it, and it works better when you listen to the whole thing straight through though. It's one of my favorite Stones albums and one of their most varied and adventurous overall.

[rushgoober]

QUOTE (Silas Lang @ Oct 29 2011, 09:37 AM)

QUOTE (Rick N. Backer @ Oct 27 2011, 08:15 AM) QUOTE (driventotheedge @ Oct 26 2011, 04:46 PM) Rolling Stones - Her Satanic Majesties Request.....there's a couple of good songs on this album, particularly 2000 Light Years From Home, but let's face it, they were trying to do their own Sgt. Pepper and that ain't what the Stones are. They're R&B/straight forward rock 'n roll band. Their Satanic Majesties' Request. And I actually like that album. You have to be in the mood to listen to it, and it works better when you listen to the whole thing straight through though. It's one of my favorite Stones albums and one of their most varied and adventurous overall. Among psychedelic music aficionados, it's actually very highly regarded, even though it's understood that it's definitely their attempt at trying to match Sgt. Peppers, and isn't something that's very natural to them.   My own opinion is that it's good, but not great. There are some great psych tracks like She's a Rainbow and In Another Land. There's nothing really bad on it, and it is an enjoyable album, but it's not a well-considered masterpiece or anything like that. It feels a bit rushed, and it's somewhat of an awkward fit for the Stones.

[Silas Lang]

QUOTE (apetersvt @ Oct 27 2011, 08:51 AM)

QUOTE (RUSHHEAD666 @ Oct 26 2011, 08:06 PM) QUOTE (Hatchetaxe&saw @ Oct 26 2011, 09:09 AM) QUOTE (Tony R @ Oct 26 2011, 03:51 PM) Prescence - Led Zep Who Do We Think We Are - Purple Tormato - Yes You are awful, but I like you.     "Presence" is a great fukking album!   While I think Presence is a step below the first 6 albums, it is still a great album. A lot better than ITTOD. I think they're both great. Very different from each other but still excellent.   Tormato and WDWTWA are nowhere close to either band's worst either.

[rushgoober]

QUOTE (Can-Utility @ Oct 29 2011, 09:36 AM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Oct 29 2011, 09:32 AM) QUOTE (Can-Utility @ Oct 29 2011, 09:22 AM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Oct 29 2011, 09:19 AM) QUOTE (danielmclark @ Oct 28 2011, 07:55 PM) QUOTE (ReRushed @ Oct 28 2011, 08:51 PM) QUOTE (USB Connector @ Oct 28 2011, 10:25 PM) You are completely right in there being no debate, because you can't debate an opinion. You most certainly can! Are you saying all opinions are correct? Or moral? Or ethical? Opinions can most certainly be debated! Opinions are the only things that can be debated. You can't argue a fact. The sky is blue. Fact. You can't debate that. Van Halen was better with Dave! Opinion. Verrrry debatable I agree with this, except for the fact that Van Halen was objectively better with DLR. THAT is not up for debate as it is absolute objective FACT.   Ok, it's not really objective truth, but it should be! The only objective truth regarding Van Halen is that they blow. Ah, if only you could have seen them live in their prime with DLR at the helm...   Anyway.. Gary have you heard Domino? If there's one "redeeming" track for Phil era Genesis that's the one. I didn't remember what it sounded like, so I'm listening to it again now.   I gotta say, sometimes Genesis's latter day attempts at doing epic tracks didn't always work, and this unfortunately is one of those for me. The structure is ok, the lyrics are decent, but there's nothing particularly catchy about it. Mostly where it fails for me is the abysmal, cheesy 80's keyboards (and the electronic drum sound doesn't do it any favors either). That to me was the fastest way to ruin a once great prog band's sound, and Genesis unfortunately weren't the only group to fall into that trap.   Just my opinion...