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Did Genesis really "sell out"?


Gompers
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Do you think Genesis sold out by writing radio friendly material?  

60 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you think Genesis sold out by writing radio friendly material?

    • Yes
      28
    • Not sure
      6
    • No
      26


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QUOTE (Spindrift82 @ Jul 12 2011, 09:53 AM)
...I'd take Invisible Touch, We Can't Dance, or Calling All Stations over anything that's playing on the radio nowadays...

sorry, Spin, but I hate these kinds of lazy generalized slams against music (especially music you obviously don't listen to i.e. know nothing about)

 

'bad' Genesis songs are bad songs - period

 

I'd rather listen to a well-composed, passionately performed, intriguingly arranged song from an artist I'd never heard of (who may or may not be the most exceedingly popular 'in' thing right now) than the worst songs from a band I dearly love

 

that's honest

 

 

 

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When Genesis is bad, they are really bad. "Was it you or was it me?" WTF!
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QUOTE (invisibleairwaves @ Jul 12 2011, 09:41 AM)
Gotta love prog fans. If a band changes its musical style to something they don't like, it must be because the band made a conscious decision to abandon artistic integrity in the name of profit, and not the myriad other factors that could lead to such a change. Or they decided to undergo some sort of musical castration. Naturally.

There's a pretty obvious trend among musicians in their 30's and 40's. They tend to change as they get older, generally to a less "ambitious", more middle-of-the-road style from what they played when they were young. Call it "mellowing out" or "losing their edge". Call it maturing as songwriters, no longer needing gimmicks like off-the-wall time signature changes or album-side-length songs to stand out and be noticed. Because - and this is something the uber-serious prog snobs always refuse to understand - to many songwriters, accessibility is something that's valued, not feared. The ability to instantly impact someone with only a vocal melody and the underlying chords is incredibly precious. I certainly can't blame someone for pursuing that, and to accuse them of abandoning their integrity for doing so is simply inane.

true, true, but i allways have lived under a code when it comes to music: art over money. I like the money, of course, and i dont blame musicians for looking for it as well, but i just simply turn away when they do. Its not like im hurting them neither.

Edited by Akron162
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QUOTE (treeduck @ Jul 12 2011, 02:13 PM)
The poll is pretty split...

trink36.gif

Yes [ 20 ] [45.45%]

Not sure [ 6 ] [13.64%]

No [ 18 ] [40.91%]

 

Yeah...not as clear-cut as many are pointing out.

 

Like I've stated a few times on this thread, there is no denying that they completely changed their style in the later albums. No-one can deny it. It all comes down to how each person interprets it...some will call it "progression" and others will call it "selling out".

 

I highly doubt that there were many Rush fans sitting around in 1981 listening to Moving Pictures and thinking to themselves, "gee...I'll bet in 10 years, these guys will be putting a 'Rap' section in one of their songs". It was progression...whether considered "good" or "bad", it was a change.

 

This concept of "selling out" like music, is so subjective. I mean, have you heard QR's new album? Chances are many fans from the 80's probably look at this as 'selling out'. Honestly, I just look at it as they made a shitty record. I wasn't even born yet, but I wouldn't doubt that when Rush followed up MP with Signals, many Rush fans were like "WTF?". Maybe they were considered 'sellouts' at the time, but were they really?

 

Like Goobs eluded to earlier...Rush stayed the course that they wanted to, even if it meant going to heavy synths and keyboards in the 80's, then 'grunge' in the 90's with Counterparts, as some say. I honestly don't see how Genesis is looked at any differently. I mean...who's to say they didn't just feel the need to change the direction (whether considered 'bad' or 'good')?! Is Rush just looked at differently simply because their album sales didn't reach anywhere near the magnitude of 4x and 6x platinum like those late Genesis albums did??

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QUOTE (EmotionDetector @ Jul 12 2011, 01:55 PM)
... I mean, have you heard QR's new album? Chances are many fans from the 80's probably look at this as 'selling out'. Honestly, I just look at it as they made a shitty record...

^ excellent point in general yes.gif

Edited by ghostworks
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QUOTE (ghostworks @ Jul 12 2011, 02:45 PM)
QUOTE (treeduck @ Jul 12 2011, 01:13 PM)
It's so much easier if you like both incarnations...

new_thumbsupsmileyanim.gif

PETE trink39.gif PHIL

Pete always got along with Phil, didn't he? Collins played drums on Gabriel's first CD I thought. I guess I must Google this.

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QUOTE (Gompers @ Jul 12 2011, 07:47 PM)
QUOTE (ghostworks @ Jul 12 2011, 02:45 PM)
QUOTE (treeduck @ Jul 12 2011, 01:13 PM)
It's so much easier if you like both incarnations...

new_thumbsupsmileyanim.gif

PETE trink39.gif PHIL

Pete always got along with Phil, didn't he? Collins played drums on Gabriel's first CD I thought. I guess I must Google this.

Nope, not the first, but part of the third release.

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I am gonna say "no" to this question. Like has been said, their change in sound evolved slowly over time. It's not like they woke up one day and thought, "Let's write some catchy, pop tunes and make lots of money."

 

Plus, writing a catchy, pop tune that the masses will like is not as easy to do as some believe. It is very difficult. If it were that easy, trust me, a lot of bands would do it, even ones you think would never dare "sell out" or whatever you want to call it.

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QUOTE (The K Man @ Nov 29 2011, 10:18 PM)
I am gonna say "no" to this question. Like has been said, their change in sound evolved slowly over time. It's not like they woke up one day and thought, "Let's write some catchy, pop tunes and make lots of money."

Plus, writing a catchy, pop tune that the masses will like is not as easy to do as some believe. It is very difficult. If it were that easy, trust me, a lot of bands would do it, even ones you think would never dare "sell out" or whatever you want to call it.

goodpost.gif completely agree with this

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QUOTE (The K Man @ Nov 29 2011, 08:18 PM)
I am gonna say "no" to this question. Like has been said, their change in sound evolved slowly over time. It's not like they woke up one day and thought, "Let's write some catchy, pop tunes and make lots of money."

Plus, writing a catchy, pop tune that the masses will like is not as easy to do as some believe. It is very difficult. If it were that easy, trust me, a lot of bands would do it, even ones you think would never dare "sell out" or whatever you want to call it.

yes.gif

 

I saw an interview with Phil where he was asked about this. His reply was "Try getting Tony Banks to do something he doesn't want to do - it's impossible." So the "common wisdom" that Phil somehow forced Mike and Tony to go commercial is utter nonsense. eyesre4.gif

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IMO, they may have sold out. To me some of their 80s stuff still has progressive leanings. Like I would still consider "Land of Confusion", "No Son of Mine", and the Duke album, to be more prog than "That's All" or "Tonight, Tonight, Tonight."

 

They did seem to be "throwing it all away" toward the end... common001.gif rofl3.gif

 

Not that they're later stuff is bad by any means, I still listen to and enjoy it, but I do agree -- times change, sound changes!

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QUOTE (progrush2112 @ Dec 1 2011, 05:21 PM)
IMO, they may have sold out. To me some of their 80s stuff still has progressive leanings. Like I would still consider "Land of Confusion", "No Son of Mine", and the Duke album, to be more prog than "That's All" or "Tonight, Tonight, Tonight."

They did seem to be "throwing it all away" toward the end... common001.gif rofl3.gif

Not that they're later stuff is bad by any means, I still listen to and enjoy it, but I do agree -- times change, sound changes!

Unless you are AC/DC.

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QUOTE (goose @ Dec 1 2011, 09:09 PM)
QUOTE (progrush2112 @ Dec 1 2011, 05:21 PM)
IMO, they may have sold out. To me some of their 80s stuff still has progressive leanings. Like I would still consider "Land of Confusion", "No Son of Mine", and the Duke album, to be more prog than "That's All" or "Tonight, Tonight, Tonight."

They did seem to be "throwing it all away" toward the end...  common001.gif  rofl3.gif

Not that they're later stuff is bad by any means, I still listen to and enjoy it, but I do agree -- times change, sound changes!

Unless you are AC/DC.

doh.gif

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I watched a 1973 really good video version of Supper's Ready live and man, Peter Gabriel looks out there! Very enjoyable!

 

ohmy.gif biggrin.gif

 

Then in the related links I found Peter Gabriel (solo) doing The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway.

 

062802puke_prv.gif waffen093.gif

 

 

THAT is a sell-out if I've ever seen one. sad.gif

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QUOTE (ILSnwdog @ Jul 12 2011, 12:53 PM)
QUOTE (greg2112 @ Jul 12 2011, 05:45 AM)
I voted no.  Sure in the very later days they put out some terrible soft-rock singles, but a ton of their radio friendly stuff is excellent, ie Abacab.

I have trouble including Abacab in the sell out group. Just compare that to We Can't Dance or Invisible Touch. Abacab has some brilliant material on it. We Can't Dance and Invisible Touch is just retched. 062802puke_prv.gif

To be clear, i wouldnt out Abacab in the sell out group either. Its excellent top to bottom

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Not that i hate the albums in between (EXCEPT WE CANT DANCE, for the love of god what the f**k was that; sounds like it was written in 4 minutes) but i think Calling All Stations was the best album since Abacab... just saying.

 

And no. I don't believe they sold out.

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I think the term "sold out" is a bit worn. This phrase comes from diehards who would rather see their band 30 years later still playing small clubs and the like.

Some of Greenday's fans were pissed that they "sold out".

Genesis, the same.

The word "successful" comes to mind.

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