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Would hockey be boring.......


Chasartymac

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...if you removed the fights?

 

 

Having watched that clip in another thread, sensationalising a one punch KO, and seeing the crowd reaction, ity dawns on me that if you were to see someone do that outside the arena, they would be arrested and up on assault charges. We all looked at a clip a while back of a big guy in a pizza place, smashing another guy in the face and we all said it was dispicable and he should go to jail for longer than he got, but in this clip of a hockey fight it seems to be acceptable.

 

It seems to me that if you were to take out the fights, a lot of people would be angry and say it is an acceptable part of the game. I thought we wanted to teach the youngsters of today that this kind of behaviour is not good,....... but it's ok on the ice????

 

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QUOTE (Chasartymac @ Apr 23 2005, 09:42 PM)
...if you removed the fights?


Having watched that clip in another thread, sensationalising a one punch KO, and seeing the crowd reaction, ity dawns on me that if you were to see someone do that outside the arena, they would be arrested and up on assault charges. We all looked at a clip a while back of a big guy in a pizza place, smashing another guy in the face and we all said it was dispicable and he should go to jail for longer than he got, but in this clip of a hockey fight it seems to be acceptable.

It seems to me that if you were to take out the fights, a lot of people would be angry and say it is an acceptable part of the game. I thought we wanted to teach the youngsters of today that this kind of behaviour is not good,....... but it's ok on the ice????

confused13.gif

Have you never been to a hockey game Chas? Not even the old London Knights?

 

It seems to be the only sport in the world (except boxing) where fighting is "allowed".

 

One game between Sheffield and Nottingham (always heated games) ended in what is known in the hockey world as a "bench clearance". This is where all the players from both sides scrap with each other (approx 36 of them in this case).....it made headline news in England - about 5 yrs ago now.

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Not in the least. What is fabulous about hockey is the speed, agility, talent and stamina that it takes to play at the professional level (or any level really).

 

Any spectator who lets the fights overshadow that (or lure them into the game to start with) does not appreciate or care about the skill that it takes. Those fans can, in my opinion, bloody well stay home.

 

Its also my understanding (limited tho it is) that kids being taught the game in kids' leagues around America are NOT taught or encouraged to fight (and in fact, I believe there are strict rules in place if they do). One of my coworkers has his two sons involved in youth hockey...I would have to ask him for sure, of course.

 

As with any sport you involve your child in, you have to make sure you know first what they will be learning, who is teaching it, and what it entails. A kid who is taught fighting is ok will fight whether they are one a baseball field, a basketball court or an ice rink.

 

So to answer the question, no, I would not be upset if the fights were gone (or more strictly adjudicated).

 

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QUOTE (rickyrob @ Apr 23 2005, 09:49 PM)
QUOTE (Chasartymac @ Apr 23 2005, 09:42 PM)
...if you removed the fights?


Having watched that clip in another thread, sensationalising a one punch KO, and seeing the crowd reaction, ity dawns on me that if you were to see someone do that outside the arena, they would be arrested and up on assault charges. We all looked at a clip a while back of a big guy in a pizza place, smashing another guy in the face and we all said it was dispicable and he should go to jail for longer than he got, but in this clip of a hockey fight it seems to be acceptable.

It seems to me that if you were to take out the fights, a lot of people would be angry and say it is an acceptable part of the game. I thought we wanted to teach the youngsters of today that this kind of behaviour is not good,....... but it's ok on the ice????

confused13.gif

Have you never been to a hockey game Chas? Not even the old London Knights?

 

It seems to be the only sport in the world (except boxing) where fighting is "allowed".

 

One game between Sheffield and Nottingham (always heated games) ended in what is known in the hockey world as a "bench clearance". This is where all the players from both sides scrap with each other (approx 36 of them in this case).....it made headline news in England - about 5 yrs ago now.

This was exactly my point. But it always seems to be sensationalised. As you say in other sports, the fighting is not allowed and would result in ejections from the game and even criminal charges.

 

Just because it's the NHL, does that then make assaulting someone alright?

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QUOTE (neilpeart_gal @ Apr 23 2005, 09:52 PM)
Not in the least. What is fabulous about hockey is the speed, agility, talent and stamina that it takes to play at the professional level (or any level really).

Any spectator who lets the fights overshadow that (or lure them into the game to start with) does not appreciate or care about the skill that it takes. Those fans can, in my opinion, bloody well stay home.

Its also my understanding (limited tho it is) that kids being taught the game in kids' leagues around America are NOT taught or encouraged to fight (and in fact, I believe there are strict rules in place if they do). One of my coworkers has his two sons involved in youth hockey...I would have to ask him for sure, of course.

As with any sport you involve your child in, you have to make sure you know first what they will be learning, who is teaching it, and what it entails. A kid who is taught fighting is ok will fight whether they are one a baseball field, a basketball court or an ice rink.

So to answer the question, no, I would not be upset if the fights were gone (or more strictly adjudicated).

I hear ya that there are fans who appreciate the great play and skill aspect of the game. But if the fights were banned, how would that affect the ticket sales?

 

I also hear ya about the kids, BUT, if it is shown to be acceptable and sensationalised as it is on the TV, is that not sending out a contrary message?

 

 

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QUOTE (Chasartymac @ Apr 23 2005, 03:58 PM)
QUOTE (neilpeart_gal @ Apr 23 2005, 09:52 PM)
Not in the least.  What is fabulous about hockey is the speed, agility, talent and stamina that it takes to play at the professional level (or any level really). 

Any spectator who lets the fights overshadow that (or lure them into the game to start with) does not appreciate or care about the skill that it takes.  Those fans can, in my opinion, bloody well stay home.

Its also my understanding (limited tho it is) that kids being taught the game in kids' leagues around America are NOT taught or encouraged to fight (and in fact, I believe there are strict rules in place if they do). One of my coworkers has his two sons involved in youth hockey...I would have to ask him for sure, of course. 

As with any sport you involve your child in, you have to make sure you know first what they will be learning, who is teaching it, and what it entails.  A kid who is taught fighting is ok will fight whether they are one a baseball field, a basketball court or an ice rink.

So to answer the question, no, I would not be upset if the fights were gone (or more strictly adjudicated).

I hear ya that there are fans who appreciate the great play and skill aspect of the game. But if the fights were banned, how would that affect the ticket sales?

 

I also hear ya about the kids, BUT, if it is shown to be acceptable and sensationalised as it is on the TV, is that not sending out a contrary message?

Dunno about the ticket sales. Probably not season ticket (or other ticket packages), but the walk up fan? Yeah, its very possible.

 

Absolutely. The media is great at helping enforce contradictory messages.

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QUOTE (neilpeart_gal @ Apr 23 2005, 09:58 PM)
Sometimes (actually somewhat often), the NHL fights DO result in ejections from the game, suspensions, fines, criminal charges, etc.

Ask Todd Fartuzzi.

I'm sure it was an extreme case, otherwise the police would be on standby at every hockey game to arrest that game's violent assaulters. There is so much and even in that clip the refs, 3 of them, (enough to prevent the fight from even happening), just stood back to make sure it was one on one and to stop it when one guy goes down.

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It does seem strange to me too.

 

Its as though there is a special dispensation for hockey players, where they can generally beat the sh*t out of each other and get away with it too.

 

I went to the 1999 Benson & Hedges Cup Final at Sheffield, where Manchester was Playing London, but was preceded by the B&H Plate final....this is a cup final for the lower league teams. In this game there was an incident where one player got another on the ice and he was basically banging his head into the ice repeatedly. It wasn't a nice sight I can tell you. The poor victim actually swallowed his tongue and could have been killed. As it happens he was OK, but it does show up the dangers of such things.

 

There are also laws governing kicking (with skates on its not a good idea)......as players have been known to get various parts of their bodies sliced....I'll leave the rest to the imagination.

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QUOTE (neilpeart_gal @ Apr 23 2005, 10:03 PM)
Always great debate every hockey year as to why some refs adjudicate some way and others adjudicate another, esp. surrounding fights.

Constant problem in any sport that uses referees.

I'm pretty sure that in other sports the refs/umps especially if they outnumbered the waring parties, would stop the fight from happening. Not in hockey. even in baseball when there is a dug out clearing moment, most of the players are out there pulling people apart, the few left throw punches. If they do and it's seen then they will be reprimanded and thrown from the game. Not even allowed to sit in the dugout, they would have to return to the clubhouse.

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Hockey is my favorite sport, without question. I would love it even if the fighting was removed. My case in point is the Olympic/International hockey. I love Olympic/International hockey. It is a somewhat different game than the North American version and fighting is not allowed. But there is nothing like seeing a 2 on 1 rush (no pun intended) with a magnificent pass and a nice wrist shot snapped into the upper corner of the net, or a jaw dropping save by the goaltender on that same 2 on 1.

 

Hockey is such a beautiful game. It doesn't need the fighting, but it doesn't hurt the box office draw in North America.

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QUOTE (Snowdog @ Apr 23 2005, 10:19 PM)
Hockey is my favorite sport, without question. I would love it even if the fighting was removed. My case in point is the Olympic/International hockey. I love Olympic/International hockey. It is a somewhat different game than the North American version and fighting is not allowed. But there is nothing like seeing a 2 on 1 rush (no pun intended) with a magnificent pass and a nice wrist shot snapped into the upper corner of the net, or a jaw dropping save by the goaltender on that same 2 on 1.

Hockey is such a beautiful game. It doesn't need the fighting, but it doesn't hurt the box office draw in North America.

This is very interesting. In the Olympic sport the game CAN be played without the fighting, but the NA version it is allowed, probably because of ticket sales.

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Thanks for your post Snowdog.

 

Unfortunately those of us who live in the US do not get the chance to see it played live with the international rules, and it is the North American sensationalized version that gets touted. My only options are to see the version I get or see none at all.

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QUOTE (neilpeart_gal @ Apr 23 2005, 10:29 PM)
But otherwise, I think ruling out trying to like hockey as a sport because of the fights would be a shame.

Ouch!!

 

 

 

Well it is a shame. I can't see how I can get into a sport if I have to turn a blind eye to the aspect of it that I think is unacceptable.

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You take out fighting and you will see an increase in morons using their sticks to assault people. Would you rather have that? Hockey is a fast intense sport and tempers are bound to be set off. Fighting keeps those who use their sticks to hurt people in line. Hard to believe but it is true. I rather see 2 guys go at it with their fists then to see some coward carve up some guy's face with their stick.Fighting also sparks a team and gets them back into the game. Always been part of hockey, always will be.. I guess it's a Canadian thing....

 

You can have skillful hockey, intense hits and fighting and make it an exciting game. It's all about balance. I've watched it all my life and played it and it is not as bad as it used to be. Jeez check out the 70's!

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I'm sure there are a few folks out there who relish the fighting aspect of hockey, but most folks I think, can take it or leave it. I respect the tradition of fighting in hockey and honestly, I don't have a problem with it. It is part of the game and has been since the beginning. But if they made fighting illegal I would still watch hockey. It's just a damn good game.
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QUOTE (Chasartymac @ Apr 23 2005, 04:46 PM)
I'm sorry, I cannot find any sense to that. It's OK to punch someone in the face, in order to stop me hacking at them with a stick?

So you rather see 2 guys swinging at each other's heads with their sticks? Because believe me it happens if there is no fighting. If someone slashes or spears the best player on my team as a way to stop him I'm going after that guy and pummel him and let him know it is not gonna happen again. It is part of hockey whether you like it or not. Snowdog is right hockey is a great game without fighting but until the cowards who use their sticks to injure players rather than drop their gloves to fight like men stop doing that shit, fighting will always be around.

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QUOTE (neilpeart_gal @ Apr 23 2005, 03:58 PM)
Sometimes (actually somewhat often), the NHL fights DO result in ejections from the game, suspensions, fines, criminal charges, etc.

Ask Todd Fartuzzi.

The Bertuzzi incident was NOT a fight..it was a mugging pure and simple. A vicious, cowardly attack which warranted the criminal charges it brought onto Bertuzzi...this is not the same as 2 guys fighting each other man to man to settle their differences on the ice in the heat of battle.

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NO. Not at all.

 

In fact if the rules of the game stated no fighting and it was enforced, how hard would it be to have a 'No hitting with sticks' policy and ENFORCE it. If a player swings a stick at another player then he should be banned from the game. If that rule existed, not too many players would wave their sticks in violent anger. I would hope that criminal charges are brought to anyone using a hockey stick as a weapon.

 

By that logic I would rather be punched in the face when being mugged than being stabbed. My point is, I don't want to be mugged AT ALL !!!

 

In any other aspect of life except fighting sports like boxing, this behaviour is frowned upon. Just because hockey has always had fighting in it, is no excuse for allowing it to continue either. I'm sure that there are enough hockey lovers to support the sport, without pandering to the wallets of morons who think a good punch up is part of the game.

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QUOTE (Test4VitalSigns @ Apr 23 2005, 07:13 PM)
QUOTE (neilpeart_gal @ Apr 23 2005, 03:58 PM)
Sometimes (actually somewhat often), the NHL fights DO result in ejections from the game, suspensions, fines, criminal charges, etc. 

Ask Todd Fartuzzi.

The Bertuzzi incident was NOT a fight..it was a mugging pure and simple. A vicious, cowardly attack which warranted the criminal charges it brought onto Bertuzzi...this is not the same as 2 guys fighting each other man to man to settle their differences on the ice in the heat of battle.

I never said the Fartuzzi incident was at all similar to a 'regular' hockey fight. I guess I should have written it as 'ask Todd Fartuzzi about criminal charges' so that it was clear.

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QUOTE (neilpeart_gal @ Apr 23 2005, 07:20 PM)
QUOTE (Test4VitalSigns @ Apr 23 2005, 07:13 PM)
QUOTE (neilpeart_gal @ Apr 23 2005, 03:58 PM)
Sometimes (actually somewhat often), the NHL fights DO result in ejections from the game, suspensions, fines, criminal charges, etc. 

Ask Todd Fartuzzi.

The Bertuzzi incident was NOT a fight..it was a mugging pure and simple. A vicious, cowardly attack which warranted the criminal charges it brought onto Bertuzzi...this is not the same as 2 guys fighting each other man to man to settle their differences on the ice in the heat of battle.

I never said the Fartuzzi incident was at all similar to a 'regular' hockey fight. I guess I should have written it as 'ask Todd Fartuzzi about criminal charges' so that it was clear.

I was just merely clarifying that what Bertuzzi did should not be seen as the same as the norm when it comes to NHL fights smile.gif

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