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Dismissing Bands based entirely upon Vocals....


The Owl

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QUOTE (Ya_Big_Tree @ Oct 18 2010, 09:49 PM)
I HATE James Lebrie's voice. Dream Theatre would sound better without him IMO.

inb4 RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGGBearwegrerafd!11!1

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QUOTE (Kenneth @ Oct 18 2010, 05:15 PM)
Post this thread on a different forum and I bet you'll get a bunch of people mentioning Rush.

yes.gif

 

I have made mixed Rush CDs for dudes into hardcore metal, thinking they will appreciate the musicianship.

 

Nope.

 

Geddys singing destroys all hopes of that. Very frustrating.

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QUOTE (GeddyLeeRoth @ Oct 18 2010, 08:35 PM)
I know I risk drawing a lot of heat for saying this, but I can't get into YES because of the vocals. He makes Geddy sound masculine. Its a shame because their music is cool.

laugh.gif

 

I agree with the making Geddy sound masculine part.

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I have to like the vocals. I'm big on melody and if it's not there, I'm not interested. And I'm not talking about someone like Riverside's Duda who throws in the occasional growl for effect...or someone who breaks into a spoken rap when a song calls for it. But I can't, for instance, STAND cookie monster vocals all the way through an album. I can't understand what you're saying...therefore it's displeasing to me.

 

No melody = me no listen

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I don't dislike any certain type of vocals, I just like them to fit the music. I like cookie monster in death metal because it fits. Same thing with a band like Joy Division...I don't think I'd want to hear Ian Curtis over any other music, but he worked perfectly in that band.

 

I dislike a lot of power metal vocalists because it doesn't fit for me. Technically good singing isn't everything.

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QUOTE (Storm Shadow @ Oct 19 2010, 07:01 AM)
I don't dislike any certain type of vocals, I just like them to fit the music. I like cookie monster in death metal because it fits. Same thing with a band like Joy Division...I don't think I'd want to hear Ian Curtis over any other music, but he worked perfectly in that band.

I dislike a lot of power metal vocalists because it doesn't fit for me. Technically good singing isn't everything.

No, it isn't. Ozzy or DLR, for instance, are pretty much CRAP singers in terms of vocal skills, but their voices have style and personality...and that goes a long way.

 

But I don't agree with "has to fit" the music idea. Fit what? Sometimes having a guy who can really croon with a great dynamic range works in a metal band (Queensryche). Otherwise you're saying "You're a metal guy...therefore you need to be husky-throated and aggressive" or "You're a pop guy...therefore you must croon." I don't at all prescribe to that.

 

Cookie monster vocals to me are unattractive no matter the context because I can't understand them....and that, to me, doesn't qualify as singing. What's the f***ing point if you can't understand it? Might as well fart in a bowl, mic that, and call it "singing." That's just me though. I'm not fond of that in a death metal song or a Celine Dion ballad. tongue.gif

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I generally don't like this, and as long as the singer has some sense of melody or rhythm (like RHCP or third eye blind's more rap-y stuff), i can live with it. The only bands that I have ever dismissed based completely on vocals are mewithoutYou and Life Without Buildings. HORRIBLE stuff, in both cases. The worst part is that I would enjoy both musically, but the vocals make it impossible to tolerate them.
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QUOTE (Presto-digitation @ Oct 19 2010, 09:13 AM)
Otherwise you're saying "You're a metal guy...therefore you need to be husky-throated and aggressive" or "You're a pop guy...therefore you must croon." I don't at all prescribe to that.

Not what I meant at all. Geoff Tate fits the kind of metal Queensryche play AND he's a good singer. Totally agree there, and there's tons of other metal that I love with clean vocals. I'm pretty much just defending cookie monster growls in the context of really heavy music. It works for me in music that heavy. Something like LaBrie's vocals on Train of Thought don't (not hating on it, just not my thing).

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The way someone sings has been a deal breaker for me on a lot of bands. Especially with a lot of the modern day metal acts. I don't mind when they mix the growling up with clean vocals since it gives the songs a good balance. I just can't stand when it's nothing but incoherent growling and screaming. Really what the hell is the point of that?

 

The singer is the storyteller of a band. But if you don't like the way the story is presented vocally and you can't get into it you have every right to dismiss it no matter how good the music might be. An unappealing singer, or someone who can't sing period, really kills the whole listening experience for me.

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QUOTE (J2112YYZ @ Oct 19 2010, 10:33 AM)
The way someone sings has been a deal breaker for me on a lot of bands. Especially with a lot of the modern day metal acts. I don't mind when they mix the growling up with clean vocals since it gives the songs a good balance. I just can't stand when it's nothing but incoherent growling and screaming. Really what the hell is the point of that?

The singer is the storyteller of a band. But if you don't like the way the story is presented vocally and you can't get into it you have every right to dismiss it no matter how good the music might be. An unappealing singer, or someone who can't sing period, really kills the whole listening experience for me.

I get that they're projecting an energy and an aggression, but it might as well be sung in Latin (Pig or otherwise) if it's not reasonably understandable. At that point why not just not sing and all and thrash your body about onstage or just dance?

 

You could be singing

 

"PEANUT BUTTER ON MY NIPPLES MAKES MY GOLDEN RETRIEVER CRYYYYY!!!! CRYYY!!!!! CELION DION IN MY HEADPHONES FEEELS SO NIIIIIIICE!!! NICCEEE!!!!!"

 

Who would know otherwise? biggrin.gif

 

When I listen to this I just look at my wife and sing "GRAHLLLGRAHLLLGRAAHHHHLLLLL" and I'm spot on every time. Who knew I could sing too? Instant talent.

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I remember hearing the beginnings to November Rain by GnR and thought it was great music.....and then came the voice and ruined the song.
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QUOTE (Presto-digitation @ Oct 19 2010, 10:49 AM)
QUOTE (J2112YYZ @ Oct 19 2010, 10:33 AM)
The way someone sings has been a deal breaker for me on a lot of bands. Especially with a lot of the modern day metal acts. I don't mind when they mix the growling up with clean vocals since it gives the songs a good balance. I just can't stand when it's nothing but incoherent growling and screaming. Really what the hell is the point of that?

The singer is the storyteller of a band. But if you don't like the way the story is presented vocally and you can't get into it you have every right to dismiss it no matter how good the music might be. An unappealing singer, or someone who can't sing period, really kills the whole listening experience for me.

I get that they're projecting an energy and an aggression, but it might as well be sung in Latin (Pig or otherwise) if it's not reasonably understandable. At that point why not just not sing and all and thrash your body about onstage or just dance?

 

You could be singing

 

"PEANUT BUTTER ON MY NIPPLES MAKES MY GOLDEN RETRIEVER CRYYYYY!!!! CRYYY!!!!! CELION DION IN MY HEADPHONES FEEELS SO NIIIIIIICE!!! NICCEEE!!!!!"

 

Who would know otherwise? biggrin.gif

 

When I listen to this I just look at my wife and sing "GRAHLLLGRAHLLLGRAAHHHHLLLLL" and I'm spot on every time. Who knew I could sing too? Instant talent.

z7shysterical.gif

 

That was hilarious and reminded me of this, misheard Opeth lyrics from Baying of the Hounds:

 

 

 

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My point was outright dismissal, of a band due to lyrics.... If you give a band the good college try, and then cannot get past the singing, that's another thing...

 

But it's the outright dismissial..... Like I mentioned.... "Not gonna even try Opeth due to the growls" that confuses me....

 

 

By the Way, that Opeth video was hilarious...... and I actually kind of enjoy Mike Akerfeldts growls.

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QUOTE (Presto-digitation @ Oct 19 2010, 10:49 AM)
QUOTE (J2112YYZ @ Oct 19 2010, 10:33 AM)
The way someone sings has been a deal breaker for me on a lot of bands. Especially with a lot of the modern day metal acts. I don't mind when they mix the growling up with clean vocals since it gives the songs a good balance. I just can't stand when it's nothing but incoherent growling and screaming. Really what the hell is the point of that?

The singer is the storyteller of a band. But if you don't like the way the story is presented vocally and you can't get into it you have every right to dismiss it no matter how good the music might be. An unappealing singer, or someone who can't sing period, really kills the whole listening experience for me.

I get that they're projecting an energy and an aggression, but it might as well be sung in Latin (Pig or otherwise) if it's not reasonably understandable. At that point why not just not sing and all and thrash your body about onstage or just dance?

 

You could be singing

 

"PEANUT BUTTER ON MY NIPPLES MAKES MY GOLDEN RETRIEVER CRYYYYY!!!! CRYYY!!!!! CELION DION IN MY HEADPHONES FEEELS SO NIIIIIIICE!!! NICCEEE!!!!!"

 

Who would know otherwise? biggrin.gif

 

When I listen to this I just look at my wife and sing "GRAHLLLGRAHLLLGRAAHHHHLLLLL" and I'm spot on every time. Who knew I could sing too? Instant talent.

z7shysterical.gif

 

You're right buy growling and screaming you can just sing whatever lyrics you want and not put any thought into them at all. So the "cookie monsters" have the advantage there laugh.gif

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the growling cookie monster vocals turn me off to almost all of today's metal. But I also don't like most of the music too so that doesn't help lol But it is a shame because some of these bands have decent music then the "singer" comes in and ruins it.

 

But this is coming a from a guy who loves Justin Hawkins from The Darkness....

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QUOTE (J2112YYZ @ Oct 19 2010, 11:42 AM)
QUOTE (Presto-digitation @ Oct 19 2010, 10:49 AM)
QUOTE (J2112YYZ @ Oct 19 2010, 10:33 AM)
The way someone sings has been a deal breaker for me on a lot of bands. Especially with a lot of the modern day metal acts. I don't mind when they mix the growling up with clean vocals since it gives the songs a good balance. I just can't stand when it's nothing but incoherent growling and screaming. Really what the hell is the point of that?

The singer is the storyteller of a band. But if you don't like the way the story is presented vocally and you can't get into it you have every right to dismiss it no matter how good the music might be. An unappealing singer, or someone who can't sing period, really kills the whole listening experience for me.

I get that they're projecting an energy and an aggression, but it might as well be sung in Latin (Pig or otherwise) if it's not reasonably understandable. At that point why not just not sing and all and thrash your body about onstage or just dance?

 

You could be singing

 

"PEANUT BUTTER ON MY NIPPLES MAKES MY GOLDEN RETRIEVER CRYYYYY!!!! CRYYY!!!!! CELION DION IN MY HEADPHONES FEEELS SO NIIIIIIICE!!! NICCEEE!!!!!"

 

Who would know otherwise? biggrin.gif

 

When I listen to this I just look at my wife and sing "GRAHLLLGRAHLLLGRAAHHHHLLLLL" and I'm spot on every time. Who knew I could sing too? Instant talent.

z7shysterical.gif

 

You're right buy growling and screaming you can just sing whatever lyrics you want and not put any thought into them at all. So the "cookie monsters" have the advantage there laugh.gif

Definitely the way to go for sure. biggrin.gif Provided you can do it without popping a blood vessel you're golden.

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Speaking as a part-time DJ, I'm very conscious of singing when deciding what songs to play on my show. I've become fairly good at discerning what songs in my chosen genres will go over well and what won't, even though I'm not always right. There are plenty of groups/songs I won't play even if I personally like the vocals, because I know most other people won't like them. Even still, I'll play Captain Beefheart regularly, knowing that half the audience won't like it because he's just too awesome not to. If something is instrumental and boring, people can overlook or endure it, but if the vocalist is just unpleasant to listen to, it's a real turn off.
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As for the cookie monster growly singing thing, I must admit that every time someone brings it up I feel nothing but confusion. It's just unfathomable to me that anyone likes that stuff. It's not even singing - it's just screaming noise. It's like someone decided that heavy metal and punk weren't anywhere near intense enough, so they came up with the brilliant idea of turning up the level of obnoxiousness to such a high degree that it was intolerable to most people because they simply weren't offending enough people anymore.

 

Just my opinion. If you love it great, but I don't get the appeal in any way. no.gif 062802puke_prv.gif

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QUOTE (rushgoober @ Oct 19 2010, 02:03 PM)
As for the cookie monster growly singing thing, I must admit that every time someone brings it up I feel nothing but confusion.  It's just unfathomable to me that anyone likes that stuff.  It's not even singing - it's just screaming noise.  It's like someone decided that heavy metal and punk weren't anywhere near intense enough, so they came up with the brilliant idea of turning up the level of obnoxiousness to such a high degree that it was intolerable to most people because they simply weren't offending enough people anymore. 

Just my opinion.  If you love it great, but I don't get the appeal in any way. no.gif 062802puke_prv.gif

Exactly. It's artistic expression just like anything and if you dig it, that's cool. But to moi it's about the equivalent of taking a giant dump on a canvas, smearing it around for 10 minutes and appealing to the art community. Any way you look on it, it's still "shit on canvas." That has its niche (or fetish group), but I'm more doggedly traditional I'm afraid. I like singers who annunciate to some degree and who can also carry a tune on some melodic level or another. My daughter can't play a single note or chord on guitar, but if she makes a lot of noise and is expressing herself, I guess she's a guitarist. biggrin.gif Hey, it's about the "art" right??

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QUOTE (rushgoober @ Oct 19 2010, 02:03 PM)
As for the cookie monster growly singing thing, I must admit that every time someone brings it up I feel nothing but confusion. It's just unfathomable to me that anyone likes that stuff. It's not even singing - it's just screaming noise. It's like someone decided that heavy metal and punk weren't anywhere near intense enough, so they came up with the brilliant idea of turning up the level of obnoxiousness to such a high degree that it was intolerable to most people because they simply weren't offending enough people anymore.

Just my opinion. If you love it great, but I don't get the appeal in any way. no.gif 062802puke_prv.gif

goodpost.gif trink39.gif

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QUOTE (The Owl @ Oct 20 2010, 05:21 AM)
But it's the outright dismissial..... Like I mentioned.... "Not gonna even try Opeth due to the growls" that confuses me....

I did try, I always try, and end up in the same place. Sorry, I just can't take it in any shape or form.

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