Geddy and Ray

[angel in my armor]

This may have been mentioned earlier but I was just curious to know if anyone else noticed the awkward moment on camera from Ray Daniels as Geddy was discussing the bands very early days and the fact that under Rays guidance Geddy was asked to leave the band.

 

When Ray was confronted with the topic he seemed VERY uncomfortable whilst he was going for his cup of coffee.I found that very interesting.. and the fact that Geddy states that Ray had to live that down for a very long time...I'm wondering if it's still a sore spot?

 

Please weigh in!

[theredtamasrule]

Didn't notice that. That would have been a major WTF moment for Daniels. Of course I don't think Alex would stay if Ged had been forced out.

[Atomic]

That was awesome.. but not sure if that was staged or if he really was uncomfortable with the question.

 

Clearly Geddy seems to have taken great pleasure in ribbing Ray about it.

[LERXST69]

Yes, that was an interesting moment.

How big is the influence of a manager in those days? Imagine it's you sitting there and some guy says to you; "Yeah, you could be famous, but then he has to go."

Ouch, imagine that. But we'll never know what has gone on in there, and probably it's best that way.

 

Don't think it's an issue today, but interesting that this point was in the movie, for the whole world to see (luckily the whole world doesn't look, just us, and hey, they can tell us can't they)

[angel in my armor]

QUOTE (Atomic @ Sep 21 2010, 12:59 PM)

That was awesome.. but not sure if that was staged or if he really was uncomfortable with the question. Clearly Geddy seems to have taken great pleasure in ribbing Ray about it.

I'm no expert but it didn't seem like it was done for artistic merit....

 

Rush is Rays bread and butter and he obviously new this very early on otherwise he would not have taken them under his wing as he did....I'm sure that there must be a little deep seated resentment from the Gedster...not enough to jeopardize the integrity of the RUSH Machine but if I was asked to leave the band that I was a founding member of because I didn't fit the "front-man image" and then asked to return I'd have a bit of WTF sentiments.

[-Jane-]

[Zanadoo]

Why, what a magnificient mole you have there!

[Show Don't Tell]

Wait, this is in the documentary? What part/time?

[Rushman14]

QUOTE (Show Don't Tell @ Sep 21 2010, 12:33 PM)

Wait, this is in the documentary? What part/time?

its in the extras, I think the section where Ged and Alex are searching for the church where they played their first gig.

[ProfGumby]

I wonder what Ray has to say about Alex's portrayal of him in the vid to open the second act....

[iluvgeddy05]

Highly doubt there are any hard feelings now.

 

 

I found it more along the lines of a "Wow, we're best friends now, but remember when we hated each other and would beat each other up when we were kids?" kind of thing. Geddy finds it funny and Ray probably finds it embarrassing but all is good.

[Janie]

QUOTE (angel in my armor @ Sep 21 2010, 10:30 AM)

This may have been mentioned earlier but I was just curious to know if anyone else noticed the awkward moment on camera from Ray Daniels as Geddy was discussing the bands very early days and the fact that under Rays guidance Geddy was asked to leave the band. When Ray was confronted with the topic he seemed VERY uncomfortable whilst he was going for his cup of coffee.I found that very interesting.. and the fact that Geddy states that Ray had to live that down for a very long time...I'm wondering if it's still a sore spot? Please weigh in!

I think it was simply a matter of creative editing.

[Bravado007]

Positive cash flow forgives all...

[angel in my armor]

QUOTE (Janie @ Sep 21 2010, 07:39 PM)

QUOTE (angel in my armor @ Sep 21 2010, 10:30 AM) This may have been mentioned earlier but I was just curious to know if anyone else noticed the awkward moment on camera from Ray Daniels as Geddy was discussing the bands very early days and the fact that under Rays guidance Geddy was asked to leave the band. When Ray was confronted with the topic he seemed VERY uncomfortable whilst he was going for his cup of coffee.I found that very interesting.. and the fact that Geddy states that Ray had to live that down for a very long time...I'm wondering if it's still a sore spot? Please weigh in!  I think it was simply a matter of creative editing. I honestly hope that it is simply creative editing......I'd hate there to be any animosity after all these years....Ray's reaction may very well have been gas. ...lets hope.

[Zanadoo]

It honestly looked like a little comedy bit. Ray was pretending to downplay the whole thing just like Ged said he would. I thought it was pretty funny.

[Xanadoood]

[Shreddy Lee]

I thought it was a very interesting moment too, but I don't think he was pretending or doing a staged bit at all. They may have definitely employed some "creative editing" to get all those little bits together, but they made it very obvious that Ray was genuinely uncomfortable in talking about it. The way he was fidgeting around in his chair a bit, stumbling over some words, taking a sip of his drink, etc. It would obviously be an awkward thing, saying to him "Hey, remember that time you tried to force Geddy out?"

[lerxt1990]

[JohnnyBlaze]

QUOTE (Zanadoo @ Sep 22 2010, 10:03 AM)

It honestly looked like a little comedy bit. Ray was pretending to downplay the whole thing just like Ged said he would. I thought it was pretty funny.

In addition to Janie's earlier comment, this is what I thought too.

It was 40 years ago give or take a year or 2. I seriously doubt there are any hard feelings about this these days.

[nobodys hero]

QUOTE (Zanadoo @ Sep 21 2010, 06:03 PM)

It honestly looked like a little comedy bit. Ray was pretending to downplay the whole thing just like Ged said he would. I thought it was pretty funny.

I agree, this was a staged moment.

[angel in my armor]

I guess short of speaking to Geddy and Ray on the matter we will never know for sure if it was staged for dramatic effect or an authentic awkward moment.

But with that being said I've read bits and pieces over the years that has painted Ray in an unfavorable light.But what the heck can you believe these days..right?

 

Next topic......UFO's and 2012.

[metaldad]

QUOTE (The Maples @ Sep 21 2010, 01:51 PM)

Sammy Hagar has insinuated that even as late as the 90's Ray Daniels was lamenting Ged as the singer, and they would have done much better with another singer. I personally think Ray Daniels is a little on the evil side. He sure seemed to have torpedoed Van Halen, or at least helped in their demise.

[Shreddy Lee]

What reason would they have had to stage it? That doesn't make any sense to me. It wasn't funny in a comedic sense, and it only made Ray look somewhat bad, so I doubt he'd have agreed to do something like that for a bit. Not to mention that this is a documentary, and they're not supposed to stage anything. The guy's not that good an actor - it was real. That said, it doesn't necessarily mean there's still animosity over it between them, or anything else. Just that he was uncomfortable remembering the time he tried to kick out one of the core parts of the band.

 

The parts of that article relevant to Rush:

 

QUOTE

He said, 'Oh, Rush is going to retire. They are washed up. Ray knows they're finished. He told me that himself.' Alex went on and on with all this horseshit about Rush he'd been told by Ray." Hagar says he was appalled at the negative comments directed toward Rush by Alex Van Halen that he attributed directly to Ray Danniels. Sammy was even more offended at the fact that Al's brother-in-law wanted to manage Van Halen so badly, he was willing to sell out his other band to get the job. For over two decades, Danniels had stood behind Rush. From what Hagar was hearing, apparently that was a thing of the past. The Red Rocker even spoke to Ray himself about the Canadian trio and was astounded by the answers he received. "Ray even bad-mouthed Rush to me," said an incredulous Hagar. "Can you believe it? He was saying shit like, 'If they had a good singer, they could have made it on pop radio.' He was telling me that with the kind of music they play, Rush would never be any more than they already have been. I started hammering him with questions. I said, 'Ray, Rush should have been the Canadian Led Zeppelin. Why don't they sell records? Why did their last record only do 400,000 or 500,000 records?' He said to me, 'If they only had a singer.' He was crazy to say that, because Geddy Lee has one of the most unique voices in rock.

 

Previous characterizations of him tend to lead me to believe this is certainly possible.

[Xanadoood]

QUOTE (Shreddy Lee @ Sep 22 2010, 08:07 PM)

What reason would they have had to stage it? That doesn't make any sense to me. It wasn't funny in a comedic sense, and it only made Ray look somewhat bad, so I doubt he'd have agreed to do something like that for a bit. Not to mention that this is a documentary, and they're not supposed to stage anything. The guy's not that good an actor - it was real. That said, it doesn't necessarily mean there's still animosity over it between them, or anything else. Just that he was uncomfortable remembering the time he tried to kick out one of the core parts of the band. The parts of that article relevant to Rush: QUOTE He said, 'Oh, Rush is going to retire. They are washed up. Ray knows they're finished. He told me that himself.' Alex went on and on with all this horseshit about Rush he'd been told by Ray." Hagar says he was appalled at the negative comments directed toward Rush by Alex Van Halen that he attributed directly to Ray Danniels. Sammy was even more offended at the fact that Al's brother-in-law wanted to manage Van Halen so badly, he was willing to sell out his other band to get the job. For over two decades, Danniels had stood behind Rush. From what Hagar was hearing, apparently that was a thing of the past. The Red Rocker even spoke to Ray himself about the Canadian trio and was astounded by the answers he received. "Ray even bad-mouthed Rush to me," said an incredulous Hagar. "Can you believe it? He was saying shit like, 'If they had a good singer, they could have made it on pop radio.' He was telling me that with the kind of music they play, Rush would never be any more than they already have been. I started hammering him with questions. I said, 'Ray, Rush should have been the Canadian Led Zeppelin. Why don't they sell records? Why did their last record only do 400,000 or 500,000 records?' He said to me, 'If they only had a singer.' He was crazy to say that, because Geddy Lee has one of the most unique voices in rock.   Previous characterizations of him tend to lead me to believe this is certainly possible. I totally believe Hagar with all of this. The part about MTV not giving a shit makes sense. It sounds like Daniels was sick of not being recognized, and wanted to hop on the VH gravy train.   Funny how MTV and VH are completely irrelevant now, and Rush still kicks ass.

[Babycat]

I've got no clue as to what's going on here, but it does seem quite fascinating. Is this something that happened a long time ago? Reading through the posts, I'm trying to work this out - did Ray Danniels want Geddy out in favor of another singer? It's just that as I seem to remember, John Rutsey allegedly got jealous of Ged because he thought he was getting all the attention, threw him out, then six months later, Alex called Ged up to ask him to come back (Ged thought Alex was asking about borrowing some amps), so Ged came back, John got his act together, the band recorded their self-titled debut record, then John promptly left before it was released. Is this something I got right or have I barked up a wrong tree? I always thought that Ray & Geddy had a good friendship, even though business-wise they might've clashed a little in the way John & Ged clashed a lot. Ray always thought a lot of Ged, as well as Alex & Neil, ignoring the money-making side of it.