OFFICIAL Caravan and BU2B reaction thread

[theredtamasrule]

It's weird, for me, to see so much discussion about vocal melodies & Rush. Just because I came to Rush from an admiration of their instrumental prowess and never really thought much about Ged's singing. Mainly because I've never considered it all that great, he just has a unique voice that I grew accustomed to over the years.

 

I'm not being critical of y'all but it's not like I love Rush because they can write pop tunes like U2. I love Rush because they write weird rocking tunes like Caravan.

[Mara]

Edited June 9, 2010 by Mara

[trenken]

QUOTE (theredtamasrule @ Jun 9 2010, 11:08 AM)

It's weird, for me, to see so much discussion about vocal melodies & Rush. Just because I came to Rush from an admiration of their instrumental prowess and never really thought much about Ged's singing. Mainly because I've never considered it all that great, he just has a unique voice that I grew accustomed to over the years. I'm not being critical of y'all but it's not like I love Rush because they can write pop tunes like U2. I love Rush because they write weird rocking tunes like Caravan.

Everyone likes them for different reasons. When I was younger I cared about how good the musicians were, but not so much anymore. Now I just love great songs, and Geddy was actually very good at writing vocal melodies, mostly in the 80s, and thats the primary reason I love most of their 80s songs.

 

And I think thats a huge reason why those early 80's albums became so popular, great vocal melodies sold those albums, stuff that was very easy to sing along to on the radio. People listening to the radio couldnt care less about how much the bass player is doing, or how complex the song is.

 

A lot of musicians can play well, but not many can write great songs. You look at so many Rush cover bands that also write their own songs on youtube, and their own songs almost always terrible. You can hear them trying to shoehorn complex parts into a crappy song to try and be like rush, but the difference is Geddy and Alex are very attuned to what makes a song great, chord progression and vocal melody have to work together, something a band like U2 is great at, except that Rush tries to spice the songs up a bit more with more complex parts at times, but the basics are the same between the 2 bands.

Edited June 9, 2010 by trenken

[theredtamasrule]

QUOTE (trenken @ Jun 9 2010, 11:16 AM)

QUOTE (theredtamasrule @ Jun 9 2010, 11:08 AM) It's weird, for me, to see so much discussion about vocal melodies & Rush. Just because I came to Rush from an admiration of their instrumental prowess and never really thought much about Ged's singing. Mainly because I've never considered it all that great, he just has a unique voice that I grew accustomed to over the years. I'm not being critical of y'all but it's not like I love Rush because they can write pop tunes like U2. I love Rush because they write weird rocking tunes like Caravan. Everyone likes them for different reasons. When I was younger I cared about how good the musicians were, but not so much anymore. Now I just love great songs, and Geddy was actually very good at writing vocal melodies, mostly in the 80s, and thats the primary reason I love most of their 80s songs.   And I think thats a huge reason why those early 80's albums became so popular, great vocal melodies sold those albums, stuff that was very easy to sing along to on the radio. People listening to the radio couldnt care less about how much the bass player is doing, or how complex the song is.   A lot of musicians can play well, but not many can write great songs. You look at so many Rush cover bands that also write their own songs on youtube, and their own songs almost always terrible. You can hear them trying to shoehorn complex parts into a crappy song to try and be like rush, but the difference is Geddy and Alex are very attuned to what makes a song great, chord progression and vocal melody have to work together, something a band like U2 is great at, except that Rush tries to spice the songs up a bit more with more complex parts at times, but the basics are the same between the 2 bands. Point well taken on the 80's tunes and you're right there are plenty of musicians that can play rings around the boys but there is something about Rush compositions...they can be very complex and interesting without sounding like the band members are trying to splice together etudes for their individual instruments. Make sense?   I love a great melody, hell I'm taking lessons on constructing chord melodies and I'm starting on classics like Stella By Starlight, On Green Dolphin Street, Beautiful Love, etc. but I come to Rush for songs like Caravan, Nati Sci, etc.   S'all good though, I'm thrilled to have new music that floats my boat.

[GernTheFish]

[*Limelight*]

[trenken]

[Ya_Big_Tree]

I still can't stop listening to these 2 beauties.

 

YA BRING ON THE TOUR!!!!!!!!

 

[Ya_Big_Tree]

Woah...

 

I was just listening to Dreamline and there is a lyric that says:

Time is a gypsy caravan

Steals away in the night

To leave you stranded in Dreamland

 

Maybe Caravan is about "Time"

 

There seem to be quite a few similarities in Dreamline's lyrics and Caravan's.

 

[Gedneil Alpeart]

QUOTE (Ya_Big_Tree @ Jun 9 2010, 02:03 PM)

Woah... I was just listening to Dreamline and there is a lyric that says: Time is a gypsy caravan Steals away in the night To leave you stranded in Dreamland Maybe Caravan is about "Time" There seem to be quite a few similarities in Dreamline's lyrics and Caravan's.

[lonelymoon]

okay, we're 40 pages into the thread, so I'll add my 2 cents deep undercover as it were. I'm 43 and have been listening to RUSH since I was 13. First live show was on the Moving Pictures tour in Ottawa in 1981, so any of you who think it's a treat to hear them do that album 30 years later: eat your hearts out!! I bought the two new songs with the "e-booklet" and it felt a little sad, to see what that is like compared to going into Sam The Record Man and buying a full size LP with the front and back cover art, and the lyrics and photos on the inner sleeve. This is just not as good, but at least they kept the tradition somewhat of having the three photos, one of each band member.

 

I am enthusiastic about the new songs. Caravan is high energy fun: I love the twists and turns; they are in the tradition of Rush music, and I am grateful for a short solo where alex actually shreds a bit, although it's sloppily played seems like a thin single track take and not really pushed to the front of the mix like a carefully composed and produced solo like we saw in the PeW or MP days. I love the bridge in BU2B as many have stated here, and love the syncopation of the sludge metal opening riff. It's good and I'm grateful that they still sound hungry.

 

But...

 

On another level, it's hard to believe that this is the same band that wrote YYZ, or Freewill, or Spirit of Radio. It is nowhere near that level of composition and production and any honest person with a pair of ears can tell you that. I still find it perplexing that these guys would not sit down in the studio and say, "okay, we have all the money we need. we are just doing this for the love of the music and we can afford all the studio time in the world. Let's take our time and make something really good for our fans. Let's make sure these songs have great production, arrangements, a blistering guitar solo, great hook riff, hummable vocable melody. Let's top Tom Sawyer or Closer To The Heart, because after all we have 30 years more experience at writing rock songs and enough money to take our time and develop and revise ideas." (S n A was 3 years ago.) Instead this stuff sounds like a cut and paste jam although yes, flashes of the old glory are evident... but I think they are just too rich now to care enough anymore. Alex writes a riff in a hurry and emails it Geddy so he doesn't miss his tee off time on the golf course. That sort of thing. Maybe the lesson is that rich jaded people don't have much left to say. Alex is trying to hard to be super-heavy. He is still in the throes of a midlife crisis and doesn't want to be like Eric Clapton playing the geriatric-shuffle version of Layla. It's like he's telling us, "forget my bald spot: I crank a heavier, more badass riff than I did in '76 on 2112. He needs to give his head a shake.

[Sangheili]

After a good couple of listens to both the songs, I'll throw my in my thoughts.

 

Oh my god these songs are awesome. Everything about them is awesome, from the music to the lyrics. I think BU2B wins it for me, because I love its message (I know Neil touched on this a lot on S&A, but I held... different opinions then so I couldn't appreciate them).

 

[*Limelight*]

Again my reaction stays the same as before.

 

Meh. Nothing groundbreaking, nothing overly impressive.

 

Brb while i go put on FBN or HYF.

[rushgoober]

QUOTE (lonelymoon @ Jun 9 2010, 05:36 PM)

On another level, it's hard to believe that this is the same band that wrote YYZ, or Freewill, or Spirit of Radio. It is nowhere near that level of composition and production and any honest person with a pair of ears can tell you that. I still find it perplexing that these guys would not sit down in the studio and say, "okay, we have all the money we need. we are just doing this for the love of the music and we can afford all the studio time in the world. Let's take our time and make something really good for our fans. Let's make sure these songs have great production, arrangements, a blistering guitar solo, great hook riff, hummable vocable melody. Let's top Tom Sawyer or Closer To The Heart, because after all we have 30 years more experience at writing rock songs and enough money to take our time and develop and revise ideas." (S n A was 3 years ago.) Instead this stuff sounds like a cut and paste jam although yes, flashes of the old glory are evident...

I pretty much have to agree with you here. With the amount of time between albums, how come when they actually get around to writing and recording one it seems so hurried? I have to think that if they were truly interested in making music because they're artists and they're compelled to make music, as opposed to doing an album so they can make money on a tour, that they would be writing all along and really taking their time to make the best possible material they can make. And maybe this is the best possible material they can make, and no matter how long they took they'd never reach the heights of the songs from their 1976-1982 period. That said, the first three songs on S&A blew my mind - no, they didn't have the guitar solos or some of the clarity of the olden days, but they were still truly excellent songs and showed me they can still create magic sometimes. I wish I could say the same about Caravan & BU2B, but sadly I can't.

[LeaveMyThingAlone]

QUOTE (lonelymoon @ Jun 9 2010, 07:36 PM)

On another level, it's hard to believe that this is the same band that wrote YYZ, or Freewill, or Spirit of Radio. It is nowhere near that level of composition and production and any honest person with a pair of ears can tell you that. I still find it perplexing that these guys would not sit down in the studio and say, "okay, we have all the money we need. we are just doing this for the love of the music and we can afford all the studio time in the world. Let's take our time and make something really good for our fans. Let's make sure these songs have great production, arrangements, a blistering guitar solo, great hook riff, hummable vocable melody. Let's top Tom Sawyer or Closer To The Heart, because after all we have 30 years more experience at writing rock songs and enough money to take our time and develop and revise ideas." (S n A was 3 years ago.) Instead this stuff sounds like a cut and paste jam although yes, flashes of the old glory are evident... but I think they are just too rich now to care enough anymore. Alex writes a riff in a hurry and emails it Geddy so he doesn't miss his tee off time on the golf course. That sort of thing. Maybe the lesson is that rich jaded people don't have much left to say. Alex is trying to hard to be super-heavy. He is still in the throes of a midlife crisis and doesn't want to be like Eric Clapton playing the geriatric-shuffle version of Layla. It's like he's telling us, "forget my bald spot: I crank a heavier, more badass riff than I did in '76 on 2112. He needs to give his head a shake.

I would put this into the "you just can't please all the Rush fans" category.

 

There have been many threads and topics brought up regarding studio time in the past. You say the band needs to spend more money and time on what they're recording and make something really good for the fans. Well, the songs you mention like YYZ and CTTH were done when Rush might spend a couple months in the studio and were popping out albums to the tune of one a year. They weren't overthinking. They just went in and jammed them out

 

A lot of Rush fans complained that the band has lost their spontenaity (sp?), and now spends too much time in the studio trying to make it just right. Weren't they in the studio like 9 months for Snakes? And a year for Vapor Trails?

 

Calling Caravan and Bu2B a cut and paste job is just...I dont get it.

 

I think these songs are so good and Caravan, in particular, gives old school Rush fans what they've been craving for so long. It's weird, wacky, progressive fun..you call the solo sloppy, but Alex is as concise and good as they get....this solo has a very funky sound intentionally.

 

As I said, reading through this thread, they will just never be able to please everyone.

[andrew28]

QUOTE (LeaveMyThingAlone @ Jun 10 2010, 11:42 AM)

QUOTE (lonelymoon @ Jun 9 2010, 07:36 PM) On another level, it's hard to believe that this is the same band that wrote YYZ, or Freewill, or Spirit of Radio.  It is nowhere near that level of composition and production and any honest person with a pair of ears can tell you that.  I still find it perplexing that these guys would not sit down in the studio and say, "okay, we have all the money we need.  we are just doing this for the love of the music and we can afford all the studio time in the world.  Let's take our time and make something really good for our fans.  Let's make sure these songs have great production, arrangements, a blistering guitar solo, great hook riff, hummable vocable melody.  Let's top Tom Sawyer or Closer To The Heart, because after all we have 30 years more experience at writing rock songs and enough money to take our time and develop and revise ideas."  (S n A was 3 years ago.)  Instead this stuff sounds like a cut and paste jam although yes, flashes of the old glory are evident... but I think they are just too rich now to care enough anymore.  Alex writes a riff in a hurry and emails it Geddy so he doesn't miss his tee off time on the golf course.  That sort of thing.  Maybe the lesson is that rich jaded people don't have much left to say.  Alex is trying to hard to be super-heavy.  He is still in the throes of a midlife crisis  and doesn't want to be like Eric Clapton playing the geriatric-shuffle version of Layla.  It's like he's telling us, "forget my bald spot:  I crank a heavier, more badass riff than I did in '76 on 2112.  He needs to give his head a shake. I would put this into the "you just can't please all the Rush fans" category.   There have been many threads and topics brought up regarding studio time in the past. You say the band needs to spend more money and time on what they're recording and make something really good for the fans. Well, the songs you mention like YYZ and CTTH were done when Rush might spend a couple months in the studio and were popping out albums to the tune of one a year. They weren't overthinking. They just went in and jammed them out   A lot of Rush fans complained that the band has lost their spontenaity (sp?), and now spends too much time in the studio trying to make it just right. Weren't they in the studio like 9 months for Snakes? And a year for Vapor Trails?   Calling Caravan and Bu2B a cut and paste job is just...I dont get it.   I think these songs are so good and Caravan, in particular, gives old school Rush fans what they've been craving for so long. It's weird, wacky, progressive fun..you call the solo sloppy, but Alex is as concise and good as they get....this solo has a very funky sound intentionally.   As I said, reading through this thread, they will just never be able to please everyone. I think because they released these two songs by themselves (instead of as part of an entire album) they are being viewed under a microscope.   I'm sure if they had released Tom Sawyer and Vital Signs a year before Moving Pictures came out, they would have receive a lot more scrutiny (not that I'm saying Caravan and BU2B are equivalent to TS and VS).

[PariahDog]

QUOTE (LeaveMyThingAlone @ Jun 10 2010, 11:42 AM)

There have been many threads and topics brought up regarding studio time in the past. You say the band needs to spend more money and time on what they're recording and make something really good for the fans. Well, the songs you mention like YYZ and CTTH were done when Rush might spend a couple months in the studio and were popping out albums to the tune of one a year. They weren't overthinking. They just went in and jammed them out

Excellent point! According to Wikipedia, Hemispheres took three months to record while Vapor Trails took eleven months. So I don't think Rush sequestering themselves in the studio for months and agonizing over every detail is the best way for them to work.

 

I do believe that Rush still cares about making good music, and I think you can see evidence of this in the making of S&A DVD. But equalling or beating their classic songs like TS, TSOR, and CTTH is a pretty high expectation. Is there any band from the 70s that is still around making music that equals or beats their classic period? Most of Rush's contemporaries have either thrown in the towel (Floyd, Zeppelin), stopped putting out new material (Genesis), become greatest hits touring bands (Styx, Kansas), or become glorified tribute bands (Yes ). I'm glad that Rush is doing the "best they can" and still putting out new music.

 

The classic Rush albums came from a time when the guys were in their twenties and thirties, and were locked in a constant cycle of touring and recording. This was obviously a magical time for them, and they produced some amazing music. It seems unlikely that they'll ever be able to quite capture that magic again, considering how much time has passed and the guys are now pushing 60. But I think they are in a really good place right now, especially compared to most other bands at this point in their careers.

 

 

 

 

[trenken]

QUOTE (PariahDog @ Jun 10 2010, 12:37 PM)

QUOTE (LeaveMyThingAlone @ Jun 10 2010, 11:42 AM) There have been many threads and topics brought up regarding studio time in the past. You say the band needs to spend more money and time on what they're recording and make something really good for the fans. Well, the songs you mention like YYZ and CTTH were done when Rush might spend a couple months in the studio and were popping out albums to the tune of one a year. They weren't overthinking. They just went in and jammed them out Excellent point! According to Wikipedia, Hemispheres took three months to record while Vapor Trails took eleven months. So I don't think Rush sequestering themselves in the studio for months and agonizing over every detail is the best way for them to work.   I do believe that Rush still cares about making good music, and I think you can see evidence of this in the making of S&A DVD. But equalling or beating their classic songs like TS, TSOR, and CTTH is a pretty high expectation. Is there any band from the 70s that is still around making music that equals or beats their classic period? Most of Rush's contemporaries have either thrown in the towel (Floyd, Zeppelin), stopped putting out new material (Genesis), become greatest hits touring bands (Styx, Kansas), or become glorified tribute bands (Yes ). I'm glad that Rush is doing the "best they can" and still putting out new music.   The classic Rush albums came from a time when the guys were in their twenties and thirties, and were locked in a constant cycle of touring and recording. This was obviously a magical time for them, and they produced some amazing music. It seems unlikely that they'll ever be able to quite capture that magic again, considering how much time has passed and the guys are now pushing 60. But I think they are in a really good place right now, especially compared to most other bands at this point in their careers.

[1-0-0-1-0-0-1]

[shaun3701]

QUOTE (trenken @ Jun 10 2010, 12:51 PM)

QUOTE (PariahDog @ Jun 10 2010, 12:37 PM) QUOTE (LeaveMyThingAlone @ Jun 10 2010, 11:42 AM) There have been many threads and topics brought up regarding studio time in the past. You say the band needs to spend more money and time on what they're recording and make something really good for the fans. Well, the songs you mention like YYZ and CTTH were done when Rush might spend a couple months in the studio and were popping out albums to the tune of one a year. They weren't overthinking. They just went in and jammed them out Excellent point! According to Wikipedia, Hemispheres took three months to record while Vapor Trails took eleven months. So I don't think Rush sequestering themselves in the studio for months and agonizing over every detail is the best way for them to work.   I do believe that Rush still cares about making good music, and I think you can see evidence of this in the making of S&A DVD. But equalling or beating their classic songs like TS, TSOR, and CTTH is a pretty high expectation. Is there any band from the 70s that is still around making music that equals or beats their classic period? Most of Rush's contemporaries have either thrown in the towel (Floyd, Zeppelin), stopped putting out new material (Genesis), become greatest hits touring bands (Styx, Kansas), or become glorified tribute bands (Yes ). I'm glad that Rush is doing the "best they can" and still putting out new music.   The classic Rush albums came from a time when the guys were in their twenties and thirties, and were locked in a constant cycle of touring and recording. This was obviously a magical time for them, and they produced some amazing music. It seems unlikely that they'll ever be able to quite capture that magic again, considering how much time has passed and the guys are now pushing 60. But I think they are in a really good place right now, especially compared to most other bands at this point in their careers. exactly... they're different people now, and we're living in a different world. In 1980 they couldn't email each other ideas or guitar parts. Are you the same person you were 30 years ago? Do you work and live your life the same way?

[rushgoober]

[Lerxst UK]

Well, I can't understand how anyone can fail to draw the comparisons between Rush of old and Rush of new that is Caravan/BU2B.

 

These two songs are everything they've ever done but taken to the next dimension.

 

I and the boys from Rush will ignore the naysayers and carry on enjoying this glorious concoction of incredibly zany music and count our blessings that it's still happening!

 

It will be a sad day indeed when there's no more new Rush to look forward to!

 

Nothing else comes remotely close to these guys!

 

Here's to the next 10 years!

Edited June 10, 2010 by Lerxst UK

[Khan]

It all sucks!

[EmotionDetector]

QUOTE (Lerxst UK @ Jun 10 2010, 03:30 PM)

Well, I can't understand how anyone can fail to draw the comparisons between Rush of old and Rush of new that is Caravan/BU2B. These two songs are everything they've ever done but taken to the next dimension. I and the boys from Rush will ignore the naysayers and carry on enjoying this glorious concoction of incredibly zany music and count our blessings that it's still happening! It will be a sad day indeed when there's no more new Rush to look forward to! Nothing else comes remotely close to these guys! Here's to the next 10 years!

[PariahDog]

Edited June 10, 2010 by PariahDog