Jimi Hendrix

[tangy]

QUOTE (ReRushed @ Aug 9 2009, 09:34 PM)

Yes, many guitarists after him played faster and with more technical ability, but that's because that's pretty much all that's left to do with rock guitar.

great post!

 

i do take exception to the one sentence though. i think guitar innovation has has occurred since hendrix days. i am not a player so its hard for me to describe what taking it to the next level really is. it seems like Vai is an innovator. I certainly think Buckethead is an innovator.

 

watching those two young dudes in scale the summit tapping like maniacs on their 8 strings was unlike anything else i have ever seen.

 

that and seeing the guy from behold the arctopus destroy it with a warr guitar! awesome instrument!

 

[ReRushed]

QUOTE (tangy @ Aug 11 2009, 11:21 AM)

QUOTE (ReRushed @ Aug 9 2009, 09:34 PM) Yes, many guitarists after him played faster and with more technical ability, but that's because that's pretty much all that's left to do with rock guitar. great post!   i do take exception to the one sentence though. i think guitar innovation has has occurred since hendrix days. i am not a player so its hard for me to describe what taking it to the next level really is. it seems like Vai is an innovator. I certainly think Buckethead is an innovator.   watching those two young dudes in scale the summit tapping like maniacs on their 8 strings was unlike anything else i have ever seen.   that and seeing the guy from behold the arctopus destroy it with a warr guitar! awesome instrument!   Sure, there have been innovators after Hendrix. I guess my point was Hendrix was the first musician to take rock guitar beyond Chuck Berry riffs and basic blues playing. Obviously, he's not the only innovator of the rock guitar. But, in a lot of way, he was the first.

[tangy]

QUOTE (ReRushed @ Aug 11 2009, 10:43 AM)

QUOTE (tangy @ Aug 11 2009, 11:21 AM) QUOTE (ReRushed @ Aug 9 2009, 09:34 PM) Yes, many guitarists after him played faster and with more technical ability, but that's because that's pretty much all that's left to do with rock guitar. great post!   i do take exception to the one sentence though. i think guitar innovation has has occurred since hendrix days. i am not a player so its hard for me to describe what taking it to the next level really is. it seems like Vai is an innovator. I certainly think Buckethead is an innovator.   watching those two young dudes in scale the summit tapping like maniacs on their 8 strings was unlike anything else i have ever seen.   that and seeing the guy from behold the arctopus destroy it with a warr guitar! awesome instrument!   Sure, there have been innovators after Hendrix. I guess my point was Hendrix was the first musician to take rock guitar beyond Chuck Berry riffs and basic blues playing. Obviously, he's not the only innovator of the rock guitar. But, in a lot of way, he was the first. he certainly broke the mold!

[Necromancer]

QUOTE (Test4VitalSigns @ Aug 9 2009, 10:10 PM)

Sorry dude there is no way you can convince me Kerry King and Dime were better guitar players than Jimi

I shouldn't have to. Just listening to either of them proves it. Put aside any bias you may have for bands such as Slayer and Pantera, and just LISTEN. They're both amazing. I just seen Slayer live and have never been blown away by the prowess of anyone i've ever seen, like I was by Kerry and Jeff. Unreal. It's not JUST speed.

[Necromancer]

QUOTE (ReRushed @ Aug 9 2009, 10:34 PM)

QUOTE (Necromancer @ Aug 9 2009, 09:57 PM) But at least back up your position on the matter.  It seems that all anyone's done since I made my original anti-Hendrix statement, has been to attack that statement.  But no one has offerred me one good reason as to WHY i'm wrong.  Simply because no one CAN.  You've all fell victim to the bullshit belief that "classic rock" stars are the BEST at whatever they did.  Fine, but I know guys that unfortunately only play in clubs that blow Hendrix off the stage.  Continue your forced worship at the alter of false musical "gods".  Hendrix was an innovator. He defined what rock guitarists do with the guitar. He incorporated the dreaded feedback noise with melody and fluidity.   He, along with the Beatles and Zappa, pushed the boundaries of the recording studio, incorporating a myriad of effects and techniques that today are taken for granted.   Like many pioneering artists, what Hendrix did is lost today because of familiarity and imitation. Place him in context and nobody moved the art of rock guitar forward more than him. He did a lot of things first, you can't take that away from him, even if you personally like other guitarist better.   Yes, many guitarists after him played faster and with more technical ability, but that's because that's pretty much all that's left to do with rock guitar.   Also, you're wrong because your arguments are based on arrogance and assumption. You make a statement like the "belief that "classic rock" stars are the BEST at whatever they did" and blanket it across whoever is debating you. You can't assume it's true and it's arrogant to do so. It's a straw man argument, which you're very good at, by the way!.   Necromancer, the master straw man! I don't see how you can say that Hendrix was innovative. He got lucky because he wasn't too damn good, and hid that fact with feedback and recording tricks. I've seen plenty of vid of him performing live, and while i'm not saying he was a shlock or anything, he can't hold a candle to guys from that era like Page, or Beck or Clapton. And none of them can hold a candle to some of the greats of today.   And sure... there's a lot of imitation, but there's also innovative players out there. Buckethead has been mentioned and Steve Vai. I'd also have to say that while not my cup of tea, Yngwie and the DT guy are also phenomenal at what they do. And the king of being under-rated would be Adam Jones of Tool. Listen to the stuff he puts into a song. Unreal. Oh... and he does it without blasting away on feedback.   I had the pleasure of seeing Leslie West jam for nearly an hour with Black Label Society recently, and you can't tell me that Jimi could even string that man's guitar.   Maybe this is a "straw man argument", whatever that means, but I know good guitar music and Jimi is nowhere near being the KING, like the title of this thread implies. Argue that all you want, but you know you're wrong.

[ReRushed]

QUOTE (Necromancer @ Aug 11 2009, 05:18 PM)

I don't see how you can say that Hendrix was innovative.

This sentence explains a lot!

 

Jimi Hendrix changed rock guitar. Like I mentioned before, he took rock guitar beyond Chuck Berry riffs and blues. Yes, even the dreaded feedback noise was integrated into his music. Everything changed after him.

 

I'm sure you know your guitar music, your enthusiasm and confidence seems to back it up! But the musicians you mentioned as better than Hendrix (Beck, Page, Clapton) were in awe of the guy, not to mention other contemporaries like Townshend and McCartney. Accomplished, influential musicians, all of them. I'll take their "opinions" over yours any day!

 

And really, there's more than "feedback noise" in Hendrix's music. It's so obvious! Jeez...

 

I'm off to listen to "Little Wing", a song every guitarist after Hendrix flat out stole.

 

[treeduck]

Yeah yeah yeah... but so far Necro has failed in his mission to bait rushgoober into an argument...

 

[Necromancer]

QUOTE (treeduck @ Aug 11 2009, 05:39 PM)

Yeah yeah yeah... but so far Necro has failed in his mission to bait rushgoober into an argument...

 

How'd you know???

 

I must be getting old. Or he finally realized i'm always right and he likes nothing but shit. Yep... that's probably it.

[Blenderhead]

What you aren't recognizing, Necromancer, is that innovation is verifiable. Anyone can look back to see what Hendrix was able to do with the guitar and undoubtedly say he was the first to do this or that. You saying "x's" playing isn't as good as "y's" playing because you don't like it as well means nothing. No matter what your personal position is on Hendrix you will never be able to take away what he did with the guitar.

 

If you want to argue something make it about whether innovation = greatness.

 

 

 

Edited August 11, 2009 by Blenderhead

[Necromancer]

QUOTE (Blenderhead @ Aug 11 2009, 05:58 PM)

What you aren't recognizing, Necromancer, is that innovation is verifiable. Anyone can look back to see what Hendrix was able to do with the guitar and undoubtedly say he was the first to do this or that. You saying "x's" playing isn't as good as "y's" playing because you don't like it as well means nothing. No matter what your personal position is on Hendrix you will never be able to take away what he did with the guitar. If you want to argue something make it about whether innovation = greatness.

What you're not recognizing is that the title of the thread is that Jimi is the KING, which to me, would mean... THE BEST.

 

I don't agree. I never have, and I never will. He's mediocre at best and his few tricks that you call innovative were either being done by others or would have been anyway. I give him props for playing a righty guitar upside down, without changing strings (IF that's even true) though. That's a bitch.

 

[Test4VitalSigns]

QUOTE (Necromancer @ Aug 11 2009, 05:10 PM)

QUOTE (Test4VitalSigns @ Aug 9 2009, 10:10 PM) Sorry dude there is no way you can convince me Kerry King and Dime were better guitar players than Jimi  I shouldn't have to. Just listening to either of them proves it. Put aside any bias you may have for bands such as Slayer and Pantera, and just LISTEN. They're both amazing. I just seen Slayer live and have never been blown away by the prowess of anyone i've ever seen, like I was by Kerry and Jeff. Unreal. It's not JUST speed. But I do like Slayer and Pantera.....no bias at all for or against them there is no way those guys are better guitarists.   I seriously bet Jimi could've played Slayer's and Pantera's material behind his back (literally ) but those guys couldn't play Hendrix's stuff.

[Blenderhead]

QUOTE (Necromancer @ Aug 11 2009, 05:04 PM)

QUOTE (Blenderhead @ Aug 11 2009, 05:58 PM) What you aren't recognizing, Necromancer, is that innovation is verifiable. Anyone can look back to see what Hendrix was able to do with the guitar and undoubtedly say he was the first to do this or that. You saying "x's" playing isn't as good as "y's" playing because you don't like it as well means nothing. No matter what your personal position is on Hendrix you will never be able to take away what he did with the guitar. If you want to argue something make it about whether innovation = greatness. What you're not recognizing is that the title of the thread is that Jimi is the KING, which to me, would mean... THE BEST.   I don't agree. I never have, and I never will. He's mediocre at best and his few tricks that you call innovative were either being done by others or would have been anyway. I give him props for playing a righty guitar upside down, without changing strings (IF that's even true) though. That's a bitch.   I don't think the thread title was making the assertion you are ascibing to it. Who looks at that title and says, "this is such an injustice. Jimi Hendrix is NOT the REAL KING of rock 'n' roll"?   Take the thread for what it is.

[Test4VitalSigns]

Necro how about putting aside YOUR bias and seriously listen to Jimi rather than fall for the usual "hype" or "hippie" labels? Just because a bunch of "baby boomer" former hippies turned into yuppies worship him and praise him doesn't dismissed his music.

 

I personally think dismissing someone just because tons of others like him is just as bad as jumping on any bandwagon for any artist because they are popular..

 

 

 

[Steevo]

QUOTE (Test4VitalSigns @ Aug 12 2009, 10:17 AM)

I personally think dismissing someone just because tons of others like him is just as bad as jumping on any bandwagon for any artist because they are popular..

Of course, it's the same thing.

 

I admire your tenacity though Necro, believe it or not Not sure if you're totally serious here and trying to get one over on us, but you've provided an entertaining thread at least

[Necromancer]

QUOTE (Test4VitalSigns @ Aug 11 2009, 06:17 PM)

Necro how about putting aside YOUR bias and seriously listen to Jimi rather than fall for the usual "hype" or "hippie" labels? Just because a bunch of "baby boomer" former hippies turned into yuppies worship him and praise him doesn't dismissed his music. I personally think dismissing someone just because tons of others like him is just as bad as jumping on any bandwagon for any artist because they are popular..

I have Testy... believe me... i have. My brothers and sisters were far older than me, so I was forced to listen to almost everything from their era, from Janis Joplin (who I also hate), to Black Sabbath. From Buffy St. Marie to Creem, from Jesus Christ Superstar to Motown, Sam the Sham and the Pharoahs... you name it... i heard it, and I heard it in SPADES.

 

I don't just rip on someone cuz I think it'll be fun. I never understood the appeal of almost all "classic rock" and I surely don't get the big appeal of the "big guns" of such genre. Jimi, The Doors, Janis and countless other crap (IMHO).

 

Okay, I do rip on some just cuz it'll be fun... but not in this case. I don't get the herodom of this guy. He had contemporaries that destroyed him in skill level, take Santana for example, but he gets this ridiculous worship that quite frankly baffles me. I won't say that some things I've heard him do aren't impressive, but he's no GOD. Not to me anyway.

 

Carry on. We've hit a wall.

 

[Necromancer]

QUOTE (Steevo @ Aug 11 2009, 07:52 PM)

QUOTE (Test4VitalSigns @ Aug 12 2009, 10:17 AM) I personally think dismissing someone just because tons of others like him is just as bad as jumping on any bandwagon for any artist because they are popular.. Of course, it's the same thing.   I admire your tenacity though Necro, believe it or not Not sure if you're totally serious here and trying to get one over on us, but you've provided an entertaining thread at least I was serious, but really... what good would a discussion forum be if everyone agreed eh?

[Test4VitalSigns]

QUOTE (Necromancer @ Aug 11 2009, 08:33 PM)

QUOTE (Test4VitalSigns @ Aug 11 2009, 06:17 PM) Necro how about putting aside YOUR bias and seriously listen to Jimi rather than fall for the usual "hype" or "hippie" labels?  Just because a bunch of "baby boomer" former hippies turned into yuppies worship him and praise him doesn't dismissed his music. I personally think dismissing someone just because tons of others like him is just as bad as jumping on any bandwagon for any artist because they are popular.. I have Testy... believe me... i have. My brothers and sisters were far older than me, so I was forced to listen to almost everything from their era, from Janis Joplin (who I also hate), to Black Sabbath. From Buffy St. Marie to Creem, from Jesus Christ Superstar to Motown, Sam the Sham and the Pharoahs... you name it... i heard it, and I heard it in SPADES.   I don't just rip on someone cuz I think it'll be fun. I never understood the appeal of almost all "classic rock" and I surely don't get the big appeal of the "big guns" of such genre. Jimi, The Doors, Janis and countless other crap (IMHO).   Okay, I do rip on some just cuz it'll be fun... but not in this case. I don't get the herodom of this guy. He had contemporaries that destroyed him in skill level, take Santana for example, but he gets this ridiculous worship that quite frankly baffles me. I won't say that some things I've heard him do aren't impressive, but he's no GOD. Not to me anyway.   Carry on. We've hit a wall.   Well all I am saying as far as I go I don't listen to him just because everyone else love him. I judge music on what I like and I like Jimi's music. Period.   Not because he was from a certain era, or that he is dead, or how he died, or the whole psychedelic image......the music. All that matters to me.     Ye we have to agree to disagree I guess.     I'm 1 up on you anyways See I can dig all three... Jimi, Kerry and Dime   Like Meat Loaf says "Two Out Of Three Ain't Bad"

[Earthshine]

Hendrix was Hendrix!

[treeduck]

*Listens to the Hendrix album - South Saturn Delta, wearing a t-shirt depicting Necro as Galactus and in his giant outstretched hand is rushgoober as the silver surfer*

[theworkingman]

I'm actually listening to Electric Ladyland right now. Great stuff. What a genius.

[ReRushed]

QUOTE (theworkingman @ Aug 12 2009, 04:32 PM)

I'm actually listening to Electric Ladyland right now. Great stuff. What a genius.

Come on! It's mostly studio trickery to cover up the fact he can't play the guitar!

[theworkingman]

QUOTE (ReRushed @ Aug 12 2009, 12:33 PM)

QUOTE (theworkingman @ Aug 12 2009, 04:32 PM) I'm actually listening to Electric Ladyland right now. Great stuff. What a genius. Come on! It's mostly studio trickery to cover up the fact he can't play the guitar! Well yeah. Everyone knows that Voodoo Chile is the same standard blues scale looped for 15 minutes with some vocals recorded over it.

[Earthshine]

QUOTE (ReRushed @ Aug 12 2009, 03:33 PM)

QUOTE (theworkingman @ Aug 12 2009, 04:32 PM) I'm actually listening to Electric Ladyland right now. Great stuff. What a genius. Come on! It's mostly studio trickery to cover up the fact he can't play the guitar! Oh come on man! You call Have You Ever Been (To Electric Ladyland), Crosstown Traffic, All Along The Watch Tower, Voodoo Chile, Burning Of The Midnight Lamp, Moon Turn The Tides...Gently Gently Away studio trickery and not being able to play?   Have you ever sat and listened to this wonderful album with headphones on cranked? Try this and your opinion may change.     Please don't tell me you think Lennon and Harrison are more accomplised guitarists than the great one.     But if you think so, that's cool too!

[ReRushed]

QUOTE (Earthshine @ Aug 13 2009, 05:58 AM)

QUOTE (ReRushed @ Aug 12 2009, 03:33 PM) QUOTE (theworkingman @ Aug 12 2009, 04:32 PM) I'm actually listening to Electric Ladyland right now. Great stuff. What a genius. Come on! It's mostly studio trickery to cover up the fact he can't play the guitar! Oh come on man! You call Have You Ever Been (To Electric Ladyland), Crosstown Traffic, All Along The Watch Tower, Voodoo Chile, Burning Of The Midnight Lamp, Moon Turn The Tides...Gently Gently Away studio trickery and not being able to play?   Have you ever sat and listened to this wonderful album with headphones on cranked? Try this and your opinion may change.     Please don't tell me you think Lennon and Harrison are more accomplised guitarists than the great one.     But if you think so, that's cool too! Have you read the "debate" on this thread? If so, you would know I was being sarcastic!

[Necromancer]

QUOTE (treeduck @ Aug 12 2009, 04:19 PM)

*Listens to the Hendrix album - South Saturn Delta, wearing a t-shirt depicting Necro as Galactus and in his giant outstretched hand is rushgoober as the silver surfer*

 

And you would be who? The Watcher?