"Necromancer" without the narration?

[circumstantial tree]

I don't care for the narration. I can see it trying to make the song come across like a storybook - which you would think would make it interesting. Unfortunately, it's excessive and silly.

 

The narration on Cygnus X-1 is much better.

[trenken]

QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Aug 28 2008, 10:31 AM)

I don't care for the narration. I can see it trying to make the song come across like a storybook - which you would think would make it interesting. Unfortunately, it's excessive and silly. The narration on Cygnus X-1 is much better.

Now it is, when that sort of thing is not considered to be cool in anyway. But it was much different in 1975. Prog rock was much more prevelant and doing things like that were actually sort of in style.

 

Of course now over 30 years later, it really hasnt stood the test of time very well.

[circumstantial tree]

QUOTE (trenken @ Aug 28 2008, 11:32 AM)

QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Aug 28 2008, 10:31 AM) I don't care for the narration. I can see it trying to make the song come across like a storybook - which you would think would make it interesting. Unfortunately, it's excessive and silly. The narration on Cygnus X-1 is much better. Now it is, when that sort of thing is not considered to be cool in anyway. But it was much different in 1975. Prog rock was much more prevelant and doing things like that were actually sort of in style.   Of course now over 30 years later, it really hasnt stood the test of time very well. I think the word "excessive" fits Caress of Steel. They were trying too hard with that album and it shows. Geddy's vocals are over the top.   But NOWWWWW it must be wine, Now we've beeeen, and now we've seeeeen. What price? Piece of miiiiiiiiiind....take a piece of my mind!!!!!!   He's shrieking for no reason. Instead of being bald, it's more like he's pulling his hair out.

[ArrowSnake]

I think the boys just smoked too much pot when they were recording Caress Of Steel... They must have been stoned out of their minds when they recorded The Necromancer and The Fountain imo. It's one of my least favorite Rush albums... Bastille Day and Lakeside Park are awesome songs, but the rest of the album just doesn't do it for me.

[vprtrls]

I never understand the need to mess with perfection as the artist presents the art to you. The Necromancer rocks and would not be the same song without the "narration".

[GeddyRulz]

QUOTE (Did Lee Squat? @ Aug 27 2008, 11:14 PM)

I don't really dislike the narrated parts (they do kind of add to the spooky atmosphere), but they're definitely superfluous...Ged pretty much repeats all of it singing.

Exactly. The action of the story is entirely covered in the vocals. Why do we need the narration?

 

Perhaps it was an afterthought to add it. With or without it, the action of the story is easier to follow than the story of FoL, which is much longer.

[-D-RocK-]

QUOTE (ArrowSnake @ Aug 28 2008, 10:20 AM)

I think the boys just smoked too much pot when they were recording Caress Of Steel... They must have been stoned out of their minds when they recorded The Necromancer and The Fountain imo.

 

 

You don't say........

[GeddyRulz]

QUOTE (-D-RocK- @ Aug 28 2008, 03:04 PM)

QUOTE (ArrowSnake @ Aug 28 2008, 10:20 AM) I think the boys just smoked too much pot when they were recording Caress Of Steel... They must have been stoned out of their minds when they recorded The Necromancer and The Fountain imo.     You don't say........ I know a certain online dude who firmly believes the band - certainly Neil - were tripping on acid during the making of the album, and were writing about the "mystic dissociative phenomena." He thinks this about ALL the albums up to GUP, but Caress of Steel in particular.   But that guy's crazy.

[tangy]

 

 

[ArrowSnake]

QUOTE (GeddyRulz @ Aug 28 2008, 09:20 PM)

QUOTE (-D-RocK- @ Aug 28 2008, 03:04 PM) QUOTE (ArrowSnake @ Aug 28 2008, 10:20 AM) I think the boys just smoked too much pot when they were recording Caress Of Steel... They must have been stoned out of their minds when they recorded The Necromancer and The Fountain imo.     You don't say........ I know a certain online dude who firmly believes the band - certainly Neil - were tripping on acid during the making of the album, and were writing about the "mystic dissociative phenomena." He thinks this about ALL the albums up to GUP, but Caress of Steel in particular.   But that guy's crazy.   I think I've seen that dude's website. If it's the same guy, than yes he is definitely crazy. He claims that most Rush lyrics are about acid and stuff. Anyway, I remember I once read an interview with Geddy where he's talking about how unsatisfied the band was with Carress Of Steel when they made it. He said: "Yeah, you can almost smell the hash oil on that one".

[ReflectedLight]

QUOTE (ArrowSnake @ Aug 28 2008, 05:06 PM)

QUOTE (GeddyRulz @ Aug 28 2008, 09:20 PM) QUOTE (-D-RocK- @ Aug 28 2008, 03:04 PM) QUOTE (ArrowSnake @ Aug 28 2008, 10:20 AM) I think the boys just smoked too much pot when they were recording Caress Of Steel... They must have been stoned out of their minds when they recorded The Necromancer and The Fountain imo.     You don't say........ I know a certain online dude who firmly believes the band - certainly Neil - were tripping on acid during the making of the album, and were writing about the "mystic dissociative phenomena." He thinks this about ALL the albums up to GUP, but Caress of Steel in particular.   But that guy's crazy.   I think I've seen that dude's website. If it's the same guy, than yes he is definitely crazy. He claims that most Rush lyrics are about acid and stuff. Anyway, I remember I once read an interview with Geddy where he's talking about how unsatisfied the band was with Carress Of Steel when they made it. He said: "Yeah, you can almost smell the hash oil on that one". Really? I never read or heard of anything like that. I've heard that the band nicknamed the COS tour, the down the tubes tour, but they mentioned they were experimenting and learned alot from COS. They also said that 2112 would have never happened if it wasn't for COS. I like it the way it is, and I was never one to look back or try to imagine it in a different way. It's what was done at that point in time and to me it's out there, a wide open jam, and an interesting listen a few times a year.

Edited August 28, 2008 by ReflectedLight

[PariahDog]

I love COS and Necromancer, but don't love the narration. Neil's voice sounds weird when slowed down like that.

 

But it's not just the narration, it's the song structure of Necromancer. The narration just serves to emphasize how the song keeps starting and stopping. They'll be jamming along in one section, then everything S-T-O-P-S... And there's a pause... And then the narration for the next section comes in. And then the sequence repeats.

 

Of course, this was one of Rush's first attempts at a long-form song. Necromancer has some really cool riffs and sections, and I'd love to hear what they could have done with this same material around the time of 2112 or AFTK. I always thought the fast 12/8 riff would be a cool way to start Necromancer, before the first slow section, although that would make it sound a lot like Heart of the Sunrise. Someone mentioned the Yes influence?

 

 

 

[mfratt]

QUOTE (tangy @ Aug 28 2008, 03:24 PM)

I read that. There are some definite lsd themes in TFoL, but I think he went a little too far with the ego death crap.

 

Not too far out though that Neil would write about LSD, considering (IIRC) the name of his first band was "LSD Forever"

[GeddyRulz]

QUOTE (mfratt @ Aug 28 2008, 08:41 PM)

QUOTE (tangy @ Aug 28 2008, 03:24 PM) I read that. There are some definite lsd themes in TFoL, but I think he went a little too far with the ego death crap.   Not too far out though that Neil would write about LSD, considering (IIRC) the name of his first band was "LSD Forever" That wasn't the name of his first band, that was the name of a song they wrote. And he's even said about that song: "Yeah... like we knew anything about acid!"   He does admit to a handful of acid trips in his early twenties - shortly before and during his London years. But I seriously doubt that every Rush song from FBN to GUP has been about acid and the "mystic dissociative phenomena."

[Necromancer]

Obviously The Necromancer is one of my favorite songs... but I agree, it would be cool without the narration.

 

BUT... when I originally purchased the ALBUM (), I thought it was really cool.

 

I was also amazed that anyone could take the bullshit ideas of Tolkien and turn them into something that was actually good. I was actually TRYING to not like the song, but it overwhelmed me and I was soon beaten into submission, as it quickly became, and stayed, one of my all-time favorite songs.

 

I have a boot of one of the few performances where they actually perform it in its entirety. But I only listened to it once and I can't remember if it was with or without the narration. If it's without the narration, I'll let you know GR.

[Presto-a RUSH fan!]

QUOTE (ArrowSnake @ Aug 28 2008, 12:20 PM)

I think the boys just smoked too much pot when they were recording Caress Of Steel... They must have been stoned out of their minds when they recorded The Necromancer and The Fountain imo. It's one of my least favorite Rush albums... Bastille Day and Lakeside Park are awesome songs, but the rest of the album just doesn't do it for me.

Funny thing about the conjecture above, it was true! From the book "Contents Under Pressure" about the making of CoS, Geddy says the following:

 

"You know, Fly By Night was made in 10 days. Now we had 3 weeks (to make CoS), and there were alot of funny aromas in the control room too [laughs]."

 

(BTW, side note...how amazing is it to remember the fact that they used to make albums in 10 freaking days and 3 weeks was considered a long time!!!! Unbelievable every time I think about that!)

 

Now the reason for this post:

 

So I was about to make a thread explaining my "theory" on why CoS was not met by the success of FBN and 2112 and labeled "The Down The Tubes Tour" by RUSH, when I found this thread.

 

So my theory is: it's the narration as well as the name, The Necromancer, both had a little to do with turning people off to CoS to the point that it wasn't as well received. Now I'm not saying it would have been a huge hit or as successful as FBN or 2112. Obviously there are 4 other songs on CoS. But when I first listened to it when I became a fan, I loved Bastille Day alot, I liked "I Think I'm Going Bald" and I absolutely loved Lakeside Park.

 

Then you come to The Necromancer. First off the name is spooky alone. Any time you hear "Necro" it is a little creepy. Then you add in Neil's narration and it pushes it to the really creepy category.

 

Like the OP in this thread says, I'd love to hear The Necromancer without the narration. I think it would change the whole way the song is looked at. Add to that a different name to the song, and I think it might have made a difference in the album's reception.

 

I've read thru this thread and seen the replies that some love it the way it is. Some think it's needed to add to the creepiness factor (that it does!). Some have said that at the time it came out the weirder music that people would take acid to, was all the rage. So I get all that.

 

But as I listen to The Necromancer I think this is a pretty damn good song but that narration always takes away from the song, to me. Now the name doesn't bother me one little bit and I like it. But when I first picked up the album, the name alone turned me off a little. So coupling the name (to a minor extent) and the narration (the major problem, IMO) Caress of Steel may have been received a little differently than it was. I may be completely wrong on that but that is my "theory".

 

All that said, it's kinda good that the album wasn't a success because who knows if 2112 would have ever been made had it not been for them feeling that "f**k it, let's do what we want" attitude.

 

Even the name of the album, Caress of Steel, is great and the album cover is intriguing, although I think it could have been done better, as some of the versions in rushgoober's "remake of album covers" thread are way better than the original.

 

Anyway, it's just a "theory" and I am probably wrong. But I would really love to have The Necromancer without the narration and I wonder if it had a different name as well, if it would have made any difference in it's success, or lack thereof.

[rushlady23]

I wouldn't change the name or take out the narration. I love the entire album and wouldn't change a thing.

[Bastille Dave]

QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ Aug 27 2008, 10:41 AM)

I've never had a problem with them. CoS is so "out there" already that I think they just add to the cool weirdness of that album.

yeah, I wouldn't change anything about that song or that album as a whole.

[Itty12]

Just made my own version of The Necromancer without the narration. Sounds a lot better to me to be honest.

[An Enemy Without]

The narration is fine. I dont get the distress.

[tangy]

QUOTE (tangy @ Aug 28 2008, 03:24 PM)

my opinion on this matter has not changed!

 

funny to read an old thread that you don't recall posting in.

[Presto-a RUSH fan!]

QUOTE (An Enemy Without @ Mar 11 2012, 08:48 AM)

The narration is fine. I dont get the distress.

I'm not feeling "distress," just wouldn't mind it without the narration. I do like The Necromancer as it is, I just think it would have been better without it and I don't think it adds anything but a creepy weirdness to it. Maybe that is why alot of people like it. I could do without it.

[greg2112]

QUOTE (Lamneth08 @ Aug 27 2008, 01:32 PM)

Im going to be odd man out and say i enjoy that aspect of the piece. It adds to the creepiness of the whole thing.

Same here. Its part of the song and fine by me. Love Necromancer!

[Mr. Not]

QUOTE (Itty12 @ Mar 11 2012, 02:30 AM)

Just made my own version of The Necromancer without the narration. Sounds a lot better to me to be honest.

is it edited out well?

 

out of curiosity, send me any audio format you can of it to me if you'd like.

[Presto-a RUSH fan!]

QUOTE (Ovningskora @ Mar 12 2012, 02:36 PM)

QUOTE (Itty12 @ Mar 11 2012, 02:30 AM) Just made my own version of The Necromancer without the narration. Sounds a lot better to me to be honest. is it edited out well?   out of curiosity, send me any audio format you can of it to me if you'd like. Me too...if it isn't too much trouble, I'd love to hear it without the narration and I don't have the software or the knowledge on how to do it!