Ask Treeduck boxing questions !

[Tony R]

QUOTE (treeduck @ Apr 22 2008, 08:49 PM)

QUOTE (Tony R @ Apr 22 2008, 03:22 PM) As a Boltonian, I am a big Amir Khan fan. However I dont feel he is anywhere near challenging the very best of his weight. What's your opinion? Well I saw him at the Olympics and he's a great talent, winning a silver medal at just 17, Oscar De La Hoya was 19 when he struck gold. I think there's a question mark over his chin but even the aforementioned Oscar was floored by a nobody early in his career and his chin has never let him down against the best punchers of his era - Trinidad, Quartey, Vargas, Mosley, Hopkins only stopped him with a body shot, so it's hard to tell. I remember Mike McCallum got hit with a good shot by sharpshooting but average power puncher ex-welter champ Don Curry in their fight in 1987 and his knees buckled so far his arse almost brushed the canvas and even though he got the spectacular KO three rounds later in the 5th I was under the impression for years after that he was chinny, but he proved me wrong fight after fight, taking shots from everyone from James Toney to Roy Jones. So it's sometimes hard to gauge a fighter's chin in my experience.   What I do think is that he's trying to rush, there's no way he'll beat Naz's record for youngest world champ unless he beats Nate Campbell in his next fight. I'm surprised Warren hasn't been able to talk him out of this, since he's the ultimate over-protector.   Anyway Amir is like 17-0 and it's clear he needs about 4 or 5 more fights before he's ready, perhaps three this year and two more early next so by this time next year he should be ready. And he might as well do it this way, no one's gonna care if he's 21 or 22 if and when he's champ so that would be my advice. if they really wanted to be sure he could have 10 more fights and no one would complain.   He should fight someone like Julio Diaz, Jesus Chavez but to be honest Warren didn't even want to put him in with Jon Thaxton who's over the hill and now that he got beat they have the excuse not to bother with him. They should fight Romanov, but I think Warren is looking to team up with old nemesis Bob Arum to put Amir on the David Diaz-Manny Pacquiao bill in June, therefore introducing him to the Amricans before matching Khan against the winner, which Bob and Warren hope is the Pac Man. Arum and Freddie Roach (Pac's trainer) want to fight Hatton, De La Hoya or Mayweather, so who knows, there's allsorts of rumours flying around at 135, like Juan Diaz against Casamayor and kasditis v Jesus Chavez. Really Amir doesn't fit in with this lot yet, he needs to go through a few more decent tough guy types and veterans.   I think he should at least win a belt or two also he's big enough to move up and that's one advantage he has over most of these guys, he's a wide-shouldered 5'10 and most 135 pounders are a chunky 5'6 or 5'7, plus he's faster than all of them. His punching power seems ok but it's hard to judge really. Remember also he's only 21, most fighters are still wearing a vest at 21 so he can still develop a great deal. We'll soon see though. Interesting answer thanks.I do worry about his chin but as you say others have shown weaknesses early in their career but not shown them in the big fights. We'll see. My gut feeling is that he will come up short but will be World Champ of one of the many divisions.

[Tony R]

Interesting Heavyweight match-ups: (15 rounds)

 

Marciano v Frazier

L Lewis v Holmes

M Spinks v Holyfield

Liston v Tyson

Dempsey v Foreman

 

3 dynamite fights:

 

Marciano V Frazier

Liston v Tyson

Dempsey v Foreman

 

Of these three I fancy only the Marciano-Frazier fight would go the distance and that would only be if cuts didnt stop Marciano. I'd fancy Frazier to nick it on pts despite receiving a battering in the later rounds.

 

Liston-Tyson wow! Two fighters where the fear factor was high in their armoury against their opponent. Liston is underrated IMO and didnt lose many fights (was it 3, including the two to Ali?) and Tyson was awesome when he had Cus D'Amato by his side. I think Tyson would find Liston a difficult opponent and as styles make fights I'd fancy Liston by KO in the 13th or 14th round.

 

Dempsey-Foreman would be one-sided but a cracker. Dempsey would be over-matched because of his size but would rattle the big man until falling in the 4th or 5th.

 

2 boxing matches:

 

Lewis v Holmes.

Both under-rated but Holmes the most under-rated. Holmes lived in the shadow of Ali and as has been stated here already was disliked for the shellacking he gave Ali. Make no mistake Holmes was the "real" Real Deal and could box and punch. His jab was probably the best-ever in the heavyweight division and he was robbed by the judges against Spinks after "insulting" Rocky Marciano. Lewis had it all except a good chin. He was knocked out by bums twice and who can forget his "lights out" moment against Frank Bruno. Lewis was a very good but maybe not a true great.

Holmes would win. Holmes at his prime would probably beat all but a handful of the other greats, Ali, Louis among them. Yes, he would knock out Lennox in the later rounds.

 

Whaddya think?

Edited April 23, 2008 by Tony R

[Tony R]

QUOTE

pick the winner. (all fighters at there best) Hagler vs. Roy Jones jr. Sugar ray Leonard vs. Floyd Mayweather jr. Mike Tyson vs. George Forman Roberto Duran vs. Marco antonio Barrera

 

Hagler to beat Jones.

Tyson to beat Foreman

Duran to murder Barrera.

 

Hagler v Jones is the only difficult one and I dont believe Jones has ever fought anyone near Hagler's calibre at middleweight. Jones did win at heavy but come on he beat a bum!

 

I believe that there was a time between 1985 and 1987 were THAT Mike Tyson could have beaten anyone before or since. Foreman was a BIG puncher but I'd fancy Tyson to KO him in the 6th. George would attack, not hold or dance and this would suit Iron Mike.

 

Duran V Barrera. Ha!! Duran at his best v anyone at Lightweight no contest. Duran was the man and always will be.

 

 

[treeduck]

QUOTE (Tony R @ Apr 23 2008, 12:41 PM)

QUOTE (treeduck @ Apr 22 2008, 08:49 PM) QUOTE (Tony R @ Apr 22 2008, 03:22 PM) As a Boltonian, I am a big Amir Khan fan. However I dont feel he is anywhere near challenging the very best of his weight. What's your opinion? Well I saw him at the Olympics and he's a great talent, winning a silver medal at just 17, Oscar De La Hoya was 19 when he struck gold. I think there's a question mark over his chin but even the aforementioned Oscar was floored by a nobody early in his career and his chin has never let him down against the best punchers of his era - Trinidad, Quartey, Vargas, Mosley, Hopkins only stopped him with a body shot, so it's hard to tell. I remember Mike McCallum got hit with a good shot by sharpshooting but average power puncher ex-welter champ Don Curry in their fight in 1987 and his knees buckled so far his arse almost brushed the canvas and even though he got the spectacular KO three rounds later in the 5th I was under the impression for years after that he was chinny, but he proved me wrong fight after fight, taking shots from everyone from James Toney to Roy Jones. So it's sometimes hard to gauge a fighter's chin in my experience.   What I do think is that he's trying to rush, there's no way he'll beat Naz's record for youngest world champ unless he beats Nate Campbell in his next fight. I'm surprised Warren hasn't been able to talk him out of this, since he's the ultimate over-protector.   Anyway Amir is like 17-0 and it's clear he needs about 4 or 5 more fights before he's ready, perhaps three this year and two more early next so by this time next year he should be ready. And he might as well do it this way, no one's gonna care if he's 21 or 22 if and when he's champ so that would be my advice. if they really wanted to be sure he could have 10 more fights and no one would complain.   He should fight someone like Julio Diaz, Jesus Chavez but to be honest Warren didn't even want to put him in with Jon Thaxton who's over the hill and now that he got beat they have the excuse not to bother with him. They should fight Romanov, but I think Warren is looking to team up with old nemesis Bob Arum to put Amir on the David Diaz-Manny Pacquiao bill in June, therefore introducing him to the Amricans before matching Khan against the winner, which Bob and Warren hope is the Pac Man. Arum and Freddie Roach (Pac's trainer) want to fight Hatton, De La Hoya or Mayweather, so who knows, there's allsorts of rumours flying around at 135, like Juan Diaz against Casamayor and kasditis v Jesus Chavez. Really Amir doesn't fit in with this lot yet, he needs to go through a few more decent tough guy types and veterans.   I think he should at least win a belt or two also he's big enough to move up and that's one advantage he has over most of these guys, he's a wide-shouldered 5'10 and most 135 pounders are a chunky 5'6 or 5'7, plus he's faster than all of them. His punching power seems ok but it's hard to judge really. Remember also he's only 21, most fighters are still wearing a vest at 21 so he can still develop a great deal. We'll soon see though. Interesting answer thanks.I do worry about his chin but as you say others have shown weaknesses early in their career but not shown them in the big fights. We'll see. My gut feeling is that he will come up short but will be World Champ of one of the many divisions. Interestingly here's the opinon of one of his rivals, though he doesn't say too much...   Juan Diaz: "Amir Khan Will Be a Threat"   By Mark Vester   Former WBA/IBF/WBO lighteweight champion Juan Diaz tells Setanta Sports that lightweight prospect Amir Khan of Bolton will become a serious threat at 135-pounds.   "He's a great fighter, he has a lot of power, he's real hungry and I know what that feels like," Diaz said. "I fought for the championship of the world when I was 20-years-old. I remember how hungry I was then. Nobody was going to deny me that night. So I know how he feels right now. He's going to be a big threat in the lightweight division in the near future."   "He's going to be threat to myself and a lot of lightweights. I am looking forward to recapturing the three titles I lost and the title I didn't [manage] to get. He's one of those guys who will be a threat to myself and other lightweights trying to stop me getting those titles."   A fight between Diaz and Khan is a long time away. Diaz is slated to face Joel Casamayor on September 13 in Houston, Texas. Should he get by Casamayor, he would like to face Manny Pacquiao, Michael Katsidis and then a stage a rematch with the fighter who took his three titles, Nate Campbell.   "Before the Nate Campbell fight I said the two guys I really wanted to fight were Manny Pacquiao and the other was [Michael] Katsidis," Diaz added. "I think those two guys with my style and their style it would create the fight of the year and surpass many of the great fights we've seen through the years."

[treeduck]

QUOTE (Tony R @ Apr 23 2008, 01:18 PM)

I dont believe Jones has ever fought anyone near Hagler's calibre at middleweight. Jones did win at heavy but come on he beat a bum!

Well Jones did beat Bernard Hopkins easily at 160 and he trounced James Toney at 168, both those guys are comparable with Hagler. I don't like Ruiz either but he was good enough to beat Holyfield, Rachman and Golota...

[treeduck]

QUOTE (Tony R @ Apr 23 2008, 01:08 PM)

Interesting Heavyweight match-ups: (15 rounds) Marciano v Frazier L Lewis v Holmes M Spinks v Holyfield Liston v Tyson Dempsey v Foreman 3 dynamite fights: Marciano V Frazier Liston v Tyson Dempsey v Foreman Of these three I fancy only the Marciano-Frazier fight would go the distance and that would only be if cuts didnt stop Marciano. I'd fancy Frazier to nick it on pts despite receiving a battering in the later rounds. Liston-Tyson wow! Two fighters where the fear factor was high in their armoury against their opponent. Liston is underrated IMO and didnt lose many fights (was it 3, including the two to Ali?) and Tyson was awesome when he had Cus D'Amato by his side. I think Tyson would find Liston a difficult opponent and as styles make fights I'd fancy Liston by KO in the 13th or 14th round. Dempsey-Foreman would be one-sided but a cracker. Dempsey would be over-matched because of his size but would rattle the big man until falling in the 4th or 5th. 2 boxing matches: Lewis v Holmes. Both under-rated but Holmes the most under-rated. Holmes lived in the shadow of Ali and as has been stated here already was disliked for the shellacking he gave Ali. Make no mistake Holmes was the "real" Real Deal and could box and punch. His jab was probably the best-ever in the heavyweight division and he was robbed by the judges against Spinks after "insulting" Rocky Marciano. Lewis had it all except a good chin. He was knocked out by bums twice and who can forget his "lights out" moment against Frank Bruno. Lewis was a very good but maybe not a true great. Holmes would win. Holmes at his prime would probably beat all but a handful of the other greats, Ali, Louis among them. Yes, he would knock out Lennox in the later rounds. Whaddya think?

Ok well very quickly I'd go with

 

Frazier over Rocky TKO10 (on cuts)

 

Holmes over Lewis W15 (his used his jab much more, Lewis gassed it)

 

Holyfield over Spinks W15 (spinks goes into his shell after tasting Holyfields combinations)

 

Tyson KO7 Liston (Tyson too fast and accurate)

 

Foreman KO7 Dempsey (Big George too big and powerful)

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tony R]

Much like Spinks when he fought Tyson, I bottled it.

 

Holyfield to beat Spinks in a very cagey fight, but only on points.

[mazyyz]

What's up with the heavyweights? Not very popular...not too many contenders.

[treeduck]

QUOTE (mazyyz @ Apr 23 2008, 10:23 PM)

What's up with the heavyweights?  Not very popular...not too many contenders.

You mean today's heavyweights? Well as you can see by the posts in this thread already, boxing and particularly the heavyweight division has been dominated for most of the last century by Americans. Lately though we've seen a sudden rise of heavies from various parts the old Soviet block. Is it because they're so good and the Americans can't match them anymore? Well it's true they're better than ever, but no, well partly, I mean Vlad is good but obviously he has glaring weaknesses that are there to be exploited (chin, stamina, timid punch output), he's already been stopped three times and is just waiting to be KO'd again.

 

One reason the heavies suck lately might be because most American heavyweight-sized young athletes with boxing promise, choose football, baseball or basketball over a career where they get punched in the head every day. Why is it suddenly different now though? There could be various reasons for this changed situation, social, economic, etc, the bottom line though is it might be that American athletes are not hungry enough to fight for a living anymore.

 

The decline of the American amateur system has to be a more likely explanation however. In 1984 America won 9 gold medals, how many did they win last time? One. It could just be from a lack of talent of course, Tony Thompson, Eddie Chambers and co are just average really but that alone doesn't explain where the Joe Luis of 2008 is. No the amateur system in america is not what it once was and that's a fact.

 

I could go in great detail about this, but this is basic answer is all we need for the purposes of this thread, plus I'm too lazy...

 

Anyway for today we've always got David Haye, maybe he can bring some excitement back to the big guys...

 

(edit: I missed out the word Olympics, I took it for granted everyone would understand what I meant by 9 gold medals in 1984, but not everyone will so here you go)

Edited April 24, 2008 by treeduck

[the invisible man]

QUOTE (treeduck @ Apr 23 2008, 11:45 PM)

QUOTE (mazyyz @ Apr 23 2008, 10:23 PM) What's up with the heavyweights?  Not very popular...not too many contenders. You mean today's heavyweights? Well as you can see by the posts in this thread already, boxing and particularly the heavyweight division has been dominated for most of the last century by Americans. Lately though we've seen a sudden rise of heavies from various parts the old Soviet block. Is it because they're so good and the Americans can't match them anymore? Well it's true they're better than ever, but no, well partly, I mean Vlad is good but obviously he has glaring weaknesses that are there to be exploited (chin, stamina, timid punch output), he's already been stopped three times and is just waiting to be KO'd again.   One reason the heavies suck lately might be because most American heavyweight-sized young athletes with boxing promise, choose football, baseball or basketball over a career where they get punched in the head every day. Why is it suddenly different now though? There could be various reasons for this changed situation, social, economic, etc, the bottom line though is it might be that American athletes are not hungry enough to fight for a living anymore.   The decline of the American amateur system has to be a more likely explanation however. In 1984 America won 9 gold medals, how many did they win last time? One. It could just be from a lack of talent of course, Tony Thompson, Eddie Chambers and co are just average really but that alone doesn't explain where the Joe Luis of 2008 is. No the amateur system in america is not what it once was and that's a fact.   I could go in great detail about this, but this is basic answer is all we need for the purposes of this thread, plus I'm too lazy...   Anyway for today we've always got David Haye, maybe he can bring some excitement back to the big guys...   (edit: I missed out the word Olympics, I took it for granted everyone would understand what I meant by 9 gold medals in 1984, but not everyone will so here you go) The heavyweight division may be dominated by Soviets these days, but lets face it they all suck compared to any of the great heavyweights of the past. Vitali and Vladimir Klitchco would not beat any of the great heavyweights that have boxed over the last 50 years, not one !

Edited April 24, 2008 by the invisible man

[Sark]

What did you think about the last fight between Pacquiao and Marquez? (not sure of the spelling!)

[treeduck]

QUOTE (the invisible man @ Apr 24 2008, 07:53 AM)

QUOTE (treeduck @ Apr 23 2008, 11:45 PM) QUOTE (mazyyz @ Apr 23 2008, 10:23 PM) What's up with the heavyweights?  Not very popular...not too many contenders. You mean today's heavyweights? Well as you can see by the posts in this thread already, boxing and particularly the heavyweight division has been dominated for most of the last century by Americans. Lately though we've seen a sudden rise of heavies from various parts the old Soviet block. Is it because they're so good and the Americans can't match them anymore? Well it's true they're better than ever, but no, well partly, I mean Vlad is good but obviously he has glaring weaknesses that are there to be exploited (chin, stamina, timid punch output), he's already been stopped three times and is just waiting to be KO'd again.   One reason the heavies suck lately might be because most American heavyweight-sized young athletes with boxing promise, choose football, baseball or basketball over a career where they get punched in the head every day. Why is it suddenly different now though? There could be various reasons for this changed situation, social, economic, etc, the bottom line though is it might be that American athletes are not hungry enough to fight for a living anymore.   The decline of the American amateur system has to be a more likely explanation however. In 1984 America won 9 gold medals, how many did they win last time? One. It could just be from a lack of talent of course, Tony Thompson, Eddie Chambers and co are just average really but that alone doesn't explain where the Joe Luis of 2008 is. No the amateur system in america is not what it once was and that's a fact.   I could go in great detail about this, but this is basic answer is all we need for the purposes of this thread, plus I'm too lazy...   Anyway for today we've always got David Haye, maybe he can bring some excitement back to the big guys...   (edit: I missed out the word Olympics, I took it for granted everyone would understand what I meant by 9 gold medals in 1984, but not everyone will so here you go) The heavyweight division may be dominated by Soviets these days, but lets face it they all suck compared to any of the great heavyweights of the past. Vitali and Vladimir Klitchco would not beat any of the great heavyweights that have boxed over the last 50 years, not one ! If you read my post again I think you'll find I never said they'd beat any of them, so I've no clue where you got that idea from, in fact the only thing I said about any of them was that Vlad had glaring weaknesses. Don't get defensive just because I point out the facts of the day which are as I stated US heavyweights used to dominate but right now they don't.   Read before you post next time.

[treeduck]

QUOTE (Sark @ Apr 24 2008, 09:35 AM)

What did you think about the last fight between Pacquiao and Marquez? (not sure of the spelling!)

Well I watched it and it was an excellent fight, close too. I saw Pac winning just. If only Marquez could avoid the knockdowns he might be able to get the decision next time cause that's 4 times altogether he's been down in their two fights and it made the difference here.

 

It seems to me that JMM had an easier time with Pac last time, after the first round nightmare he pretty much boxed his head off. This time it was close all the way with Manny having the edge. I think Marquez is at a slight disadvantage at 130, the extra weight seems to suit Pac but Marquez could still make featherwight. I also think Pac has improved since last time, he's not as one dimensional, has developed a decent right hand, is smarter and uses a lot more clever movement and angles instead of just wading in.

 

I'd probably pick Pac to win again if they have a third fight, especially becasue it'll be at lightweight which will be even less advantageous to Marquez.

[the invisible man]

QUOTE (treeduck @ Apr 24 2008, 11:54 AM)

QUOTE (the invisible man @ Apr 24 2008, 07:53 AM) QUOTE (treeduck @ Apr 23 2008, 11:45 PM) QUOTE (mazyyz @ Apr 23 2008, 10:23 PM) What's up with the heavyweights?  Not very popular...not too many contenders. You mean today's heavyweights? Well as you can see by the posts in this thread already, boxing and particularly the heavyweight division has been dominated for most of the last century by Americans. Lately though we've seen a sudden rise of heavies from various parts the old Soviet block. Is it because they're so good and the Americans can't match them anymore? Well it's true they're better than ever, but no, well partly, I mean Vlad is good but obviously he has glaring weaknesses that are there to be exploited (chin, stamina, timid punch output), he's already been stopped three times and is just waiting to be KO'd again.   One reason the heavies suck lately might be because most American heavyweight-sized young athletes with boxing promise, choose football, baseball or basketball over a career where they get punched in the head every day. Why is it suddenly different now though? There could be various reasons for this changed situation, social, economic, etc, the bottom line though is it might be that American athletes are not hungry enough to fight for a living anymore.   The decline of the American amateur system has to be a more likely explanation however. In 1984 America won 9 gold medals, how many did they win last time? One. It could just be from a lack of talent of course, Tony Thompson, Eddie Chambers and co are just average really but that alone doesn't explain where the Joe Luis of 2008 is. No the amateur system in america is not what it once was and that's a fact.   I could go in great detail about this, but this is basic answer is all we need for the purposes of this thread, plus I'm too lazy...   Anyway for today we've always got David Haye, maybe he can bring some excitement back to the big guys...   (edit: I missed out the word Olympics, I took it for granted everyone would understand what I meant by 9 gold medals in 1984, but not everyone will so here you go) The heavyweight division may be dominated by Soviets these days, but lets face it they all suck compared to any of the great heavyweights of the past. Vitali and Vladimir Klitchco would not beat any of the great heavyweights that have boxed over the last 50 years, not one ! If you read my post again I think you'll find I never said they'd beat any of them, so I've no clue where you got that idea from, in fact the only thing I said about any of them was that Vlad had glaring weaknesses. Don't get defensive just because I point out the facts of the day which are as I stated US heavyweights used to dominate but right now they don't.   Read before you post next time. Im sorry if you took my post as defensive. I did not mean it that way, i was just reiterating your point and making my own statement pertaining to what i feel is a weak crop of Rushian wannabees. Carry on boxing guru.

[treeduck]

QUOTE (the invisible man @ Apr 24 2008, 12:04 PM)

QUOTE (treeduck @ Apr 24 2008, 11:54 AM) QUOTE (the invisible man @ Apr 24 2008, 07:53 AM) QUOTE (treeduck @ Apr 23 2008, 11:45 PM) QUOTE (mazyyz @ Apr 23 2008, 10:23 PM) What's up with the heavyweights?  Not very popular...not too many contenders. You mean today's heavyweights? Well as you can see by the posts in this thread already, boxing and particularly the heavyweight division has been dominated for most of the last century by Americans. Lately though we've seen a sudden rise of heavies from various parts the old Soviet block. Is it because they're so good and the Americans can't match them anymore? Well it's true they're better than ever, but no, well partly, I mean Vlad is good but obviously he has glaring weaknesses that are there to be exploited (chin, stamina, timid punch output), he's already been stopped three times and is just waiting to be KO'd again.   One reason the heavies suck lately might be because most American heavyweight-sized young athletes with boxing promise, choose football, baseball or basketball over a career where they get punched in the head every day. Why is it suddenly different now though? There could be various reasons for this changed situation, social, economic, etc, the bottom line though is it might be that American athletes are not hungry enough to fight for a living anymore.   The decline of the American amateur system has to be a more likely explanation however. In 1984 America won 9 gold medals, how many did they win last time? One. It could just be from a lack of talent of course, Tony Thompson, Eddie Chambers and co are just average really but that alone doesn't explain where the Joe Luis of 2008 is. No the amateur system in america is not what it once was and that's a fact.   I could go in great detail about this, but this is basic answer is all we need for the purposes of this thread, plus I'm too lazy...   Anyway for today we've always got David Haye, maybe he can bring some excitement back to the big guys...   (edit: I missed out the word Olympics, I took it for granted everyone would understand what I meant by 9 gold medals in 1984, but not everyone will so here you go) The heavyweight division may be dominated by Soviets these days, but lets face it they all suck compared to any of the great heavyweights of the past. Vitali and Vladimir Klitchco would not beat any of the great heavyweights that have boxed over the last 50 years, not one ! If you read my post again I think you'll find I never said they'd beat any of them, so I've no clue where you got that idea from, in fact the only thing I said about any of them was that Vlad had glaring weaknesses. Don't get defensive just because I point out the facts of the day which are as I stated US heavyweights used to dominate but right now they don't.   Read before you post next time. Im sorry if you took my post as defensive. I did not mean it that way, i was just reiterating your point and making my own statement pertaining to what i feel is a weak crop of Rushian wannabees. Carry on boxing guru. Cool, my point was that there's no Ali or Tyson or Louis or Holmes about these days. I even said the current heavies suck too...   It's possible Tony Thompson might beat Vlad in a few weeks time but I'm not too confident.   I notice Vlad's old foe Chris Byrd has gone all the way down to light heavy! I've seen him interviewed too he looks in good shape, I wonder how he'll do at 175? He should be a real danger man having handled full heavyweights.

[Alex]

What happened to that fight between Calzaghe and uh......DAMN IT. Hopkins? I dunno I think it was Hopkins. Anyway, what happened and how did they win!

[treeduck]

QUOTE (Alex @ Apr 24 2008, 05:19 PM)

What happened to that fight between Calzaghe and uh......DAMN IT. Hopkins? I dunno I think it was Hopkins. Anyway, what happened and how did they win!

Calzaghe won it, Hopkins did too much holding and was outworked over the full 12 rounds on a split points verdict. He screamed robbery afterwards but it sounded hollow from a guy who had spent a couple of minutes rolling around on the floor in round 10 after a phantom low blow. It wasn't pretty and only round one was really action packed, with a flash knockdown from a straight right hand from Hopkins, so he started well but faded fast.

 

The right man won but Joe wasn't very impressive at all, if that's all he's got left then he's right to retire at the end of the year. I suppose these guys are "old" now so it's to be expected that they underperform. Mind you Hopkins specialises in making boxers look bad so we'll have to see. Bernard should definitely retire, he's nothing left to prove and he himself said that he couldn't train for three months just to pick up a check...

[mazyyz]

QUOTE (Sark @ Apr 24 2008, 10:35 AM)

What did you think about the last fight between Pacquiao and Marquez? (not sure of the spelling!)

That was a great fight and could have gone either way.

[Alex]

QUOTE (treeduck @ Apr 24 2008, 06:23 PM)

QUOTE (Alex @ Apr 24 2008, 05:19 PM) What happened to that fight between Calzaghe and uh......DAMN IT. Hopkins? I dunno I think it was Hopkins. Anyway, what happened and how did they win! Calzaghe won it, Hopkins did too much holding and was outworked over the full 12 rounds on a split points verdict. He screamed robbery afterwards but it sounded hollow from a guy who had spent a couple of minutes rolling around on the floor in round 10 after a phantom low blow. It wasn't pretty and only round one was really action packed, with a flash knockdown from a straight right hand from Hopkins, so he started well but faded fast.   The right man won but Joe wasn't very impressive at all, if that's all he's got left then he's right to retire at the end of the year. I suppose these guys are "old" now so it's to be expected that they underperform. Mind you Hopkins specialises in making boxers look bad so we'll have to see. Bernard should definitely retire, he's nothing left to prove and he himself said that he couldn't train for three months just to pick up a check... Thanks, my dad made me go to bed early so I didnt catch the end

[the invisible man]

Do you think Larry Holmes would have given Ali a battle when Ali was in his prime ?

[daveyt]

did you pay to see that "fight" between ocsar de la hoya and that black guy last year?

[treeduck]

QUOTE (daveyt @ Apr 28 2008, 12:37 PM)

did you pay to see that "fight" between ocsar de la hoya and that black guy last year?

No way, I saw it free on sopcast...

 

[treeduck]

QUOTE (the invisible man @ Apr 28 2008, 12:25 PM)

Do you think Larry Holmes would have given Ali a battle when Ali was in his prime ?

Yeah he would have pushed him to the limit, but Ali in his prime (1966 version) would have been too fast for Holmes (1980 version) and his movement would have taken away Holmes' jab and that's Larry's main weapon. Ali was vulnerable to left hookers (Joe frazier, Henry Cooper) and aggressive pressure guys in general (Norton) not boxers. Holmes was too pedestrian in his footwork compared to Ali to outbox him and that was Larry's game.

 

Ali W15 Holmes

[Tony R]

I saw the Hopkins-Calzaghe fight for the first time on Sunday. Hopkins should be ashamed of himself. That ridiculous stunt he pulled after the low blow was borderline cheating, the equivalent of a footballer diving in the box. Joe wasnt great on the night but he was fighting an awkward opponent who was merely defending himself for the last 6 rounds. I had Calzaghe taking it by 2 rounds but it wouldnt have been a total shock if the judges had claimed that Hopkins squeaked it.

 

There's a nice write up in Ring magazine online:

 

http://www.thering-online.com/ringpages/ri...ml#boxing042108

 

They're adamant Joe won the fight and that's good enough for me.

 

 

[treeduck]

QUOTE (Tony R @ Apr 28 2008, 05:47 PM)

I saw the Hopkins-Calzaghe fight for the first time on Sunday. Hopkins should be ashamed of himself. That ridiculous stunt he pulled after the low blow was borderline cheating, the equivalent of a footballer diving in the box. Joe wasnt great on the night but he was fighting an awkward opponent who was merely defending himself for the last 6 rounds. I had Calzaghe taking it by 2 rounds but it wouldnt have been a total shock if the judges had claimed that Hopkins squeaked it. There's a nice write up in Ring magazine online: http://www.thering-online.com/ringpages/ri...ml#boxing042108 They're adamant Joe won the fight and that's good enough for me.

Yeah I saw that article and guess who owns Ring magazine these days? Oscar "Golden Boy" De La Hoya, therefore also Bernard Hopkins since he's the number 2 at Golden Boy, so it proves ones thing at least, the Ring publishes fair reviews...for now.