kazzman Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 If I were the owners, I would have accepted the offer and then over the course of time between now and the next labor agreement, slowly try to work a cap in there. After compairing the Players offer to the owners counter offer, the owners are a bunch of idiots. The players offer would have ended up saving the league $511 million while the owners offer would end up saving the league $509 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilpeart_gal Posted December 15, 2004 Author Share Posted December 15, 2004 This is just lovely. NOT. NHL and union reject new proposals By ROB GILLIES, For The Associated Press December 14, 2004 TORONTO (AP) -- The NHL rejected last week's proposal by the players' association and then had its own counteroffer turned down Tuesday during a 3 1/2 -hour negotiating session. NHL commissioner Gary Bettman said the offer made by the union last Thursday, which featured a 24-percent salary rollback, was a ``big-time, significant and meaningful move'' but was a short-term fix that wouldn't cure the league's financial troubles in the long run. ``In short, the league took what they liked from our proposal, made major changes and slapped a salary cap on top of it,'' union head Bob Goodenow said. ``Put simply, our proposal provides the basis for a negotiated agreement. The NHL's does not.'' The major difference in the dispute remains the salary-cap roadblock. The NHL wants one to achieve what it calls cost certainty. The players' association says it will never accept that as a solution. ``(Bettman) knows full well that a salary cap is a nonstarter for this organization,'' Goodenow said. ``He remains fixated on the salary-cap solution. And as long as that's the case, there's going to be problems.'' Bettman said no new negotiating sessions have been scheduled, moving the NHL closer to becoming the first North American sports league to lose an entire season to a labor dispute. There might be a month left to salvage the season. The last NHL lockout ended with a deal on Jan. 11, 1995, allowing for a 48-game season to be played. The lockout reached its 90th day Tuesday and has already forced the cancelation of 414 regular-season games and the 2005 All-Star game. ``As I've said all along, it's about getting the right deal,'' Bettman said. ``I would hope at some point it gets to where it's relevant. If not, we'll start up whenever we have a new deal. ``We haven't focused on what a semblance of a season would be. We're serious about fixing this the right way.'' After consulting with the 30 team owners, Bettman said the union's offer that didn't contain a direct link between revenues and player costs was rejected. ``The rollback is, in and of itself, not a system and we have had a full decade as to how the old system operates,'' Bettman said. ``Our unanimous conclusion was that the union proposal does not work. It is fatally flawed as a system going forward.'' Bettman said the NHL's counteroffer was then rejected. The league proposal contained a salary cap, which, based on last year's economics, would see team player costs between $38.6 million and $34.6 million. The NHL also revamped the players' association rollback offer, proposing a graduated scale. Players making less than $800,000 would not have their salary diminished. Those making $5 million or more would have 35 percent taken away from their existing contract. ``My hope is that the union leadership recognizes that the owners' resolve is great,'' Bettman said. ``We only know of really one approach to meaningfully address and fix our problems. And unless somebody can miraculously come up with another approach, which I am highly skeptical of but always anxious to listen, we're committed to fixing this the right way.'' The union's proposal also contained a luxury tax, a revenue sharing plan, a lower cap on entry-level contracts and bonuses, and an offer to allow teams to take players to arbitration. But because it doesn't guarantee what each team will be required to pay its players, it didn't meet the solution the owners are seeking. ``You either know your costs or you don't,'' Bettman said. The Canadian sports television network TSN reported Monday that NHL executive vice president Bill Daly sent a memo to team owners that said the league would turn down the union's offer. Bettman has placed a gag order on team executives, and has already handed out significant fines to those who speak out of turn. Steve Belkin, one of the Atlanta Thrashers' owners, was ordered to pay $250,000 for saying the league would use replacement players next year if a new collective bargaining agreement isn't reached. The punishment will be much harsher if the source of the leaked memo is revealed. ``If I find out, there won't be much reason for you to be talking to them because their career in the NHL will end abruptly,'' Bettman said. ``I think it's about the most irresponsible thing that could be done. I would really like to know who did it.'' The NHL hadn't given the players' association an offer since July 21, when it presented six possible concepts to provide a framework for the league's first new collective bargaining agreement in a decade. All six were formally rejected by the players on Aug. 17, and negotiations that followed over the next month failed to move the sides any closer to resolving the philosophical difference of a salary cap. Talks broke off Sept. 9 when owners turned down an offer, and the lockout was imposed a week later by Bettman. Players and owners stayed apart from early September until last Thursday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Test4VitalSigns Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 QUOTE (neilpeart_gal @ Dec 14 2004, 06:34 PM) Well I don't mean THAT, per se. I just don't see how saying 'salary cap or nothing' is going to get us anywhere. Just a silly little joke NPG...i hear u though...there's gotta be some middle ground and get a deal done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-13 Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 QUOTE (neilpeart_gal @ Dec 14 2004, 06:20 AM)What a dicktree. YEA OMG.....I can assure we flames fan are not happy.... STUPID Bettman....thanks for ruining it for the season.... BETTMAN!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilpeart_gal Posted December 15, 2004 Author Share Posted December 15, 2004 What I don't understand is why they couldn't accept the players' solution (which from what I read would help in the immediate future), but agree to renegotiate in, say, 2 years. That way, we wouldn't lose the entire season (and even more fan interest), we'd solve the problem immediately but agree to meet again to solve it long term. I guess that is too common sensical for Bettman tho. Its his way or the highway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Test4VitalSigns Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 I love NHL hockey and miss it but this year it's been a special kind of year for our local Jr. hockey team, the London Knights (OHL) and I'm glad they are getting national attention. They have played 31 games now and have yet to lose a game. I'm glad we have this great and special team to divert my attention from this mess in the NHL. The lockout will probably affect me more when the NFL season ends along with the Knights' season but at the moment I'm enjoying the Knights kick blink, some good football action, and chatting it up with Rush fans all over the world. Check out the Knight's website! http://www.londonknights.com/default.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilpeart_gal Posted December 15, 2004 Author Share Posted December 15, 2004 We don't have jr. hockey around here. I guess I'm just bummed cos I know I won't have the $ for a season ticket next year (not that this labor dispute will even be resolved by then, for cry eye!!) so not seeing hockey this year means its going to be a while for me. I'm also afraid the lockout is going to negatively effect the fan base the game has, esp. in non traditional markets like mine. We were just starting to get people interested in the game after our first appearance in the playoffs (and giving the Dead Wings more trouble than they expected, heh!)........and now what? By the time the game comes back, we will have lost half the fans we were starting to get. Doesn't bode well for towns like Nashville where there are a good core of staunch hockey fans, but who still need desperately to 'recruit' more. I hope that teams like mine don't fail or fold. If they do, Bettman only has himself and his hard headedness to blame. Not that he'll give a toss. Not as long as he's getting paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Test4VitalSigns Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 QUOTE (neilpeart_gal @ Dec 15 2004, 08:46 AM) We don't have jr. hockey around here. I guess I'm just bummed cos I know I won't have the $ for a season ticket next year (not that this labor dispute will even be resolved by then, for cry eye!!) so not seeing hockey this year means its going to be a while for me. I'm also afraid the lockout is going to negatively effect the fan base the game has, esp. in non traditional markets like mine. We were just starting to get people interested in the game after our first appearance in the playoffs (and giving the Dead Wings more trouble than they expected, heh!)........and now what? By the time the game comes back, we will have lost half the fans we were starting to get. Doesn't bode well for towns like Nashville where there are a good core of staunch hockey fans, but who still need desperately to 'recruit' more. I hope that teams like mine don't fail or fold. If they do, Bettman only has himself and his hard headedness to blame. Not that he'll give a toss. Not as long as he's getting paid. I feel for u NPG....The Preds were really moving on up last year and now all this rice. I've heard that midget Bettman and Goodenew make 4 millions bucks a year each. And getting paid even during this fargin' lockout. What a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilpeart_gal Posted December 15, 2004 Author Share Posted December 15, 2004 Midget Bettman. But yeah, I knew there was no way in hell either of them would be missing a paycheck during all this. And thanks for the words about my Preds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Test4VitalSigns Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 QUOTE (neilpeart_gal @ Dec 15 2004, 09:15 AM) Midget Bettman. But yeah, I knew there was no way in hell either of them would be missing a paycheck during all this. And thanks for the words about my Preds. hey no problem! If u haven't taken Chas to a game yet make sure u do if and when the hockey gets under way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilpeart_gal Posted December 15, 2004 Author Share Posted December 15, 2004 That's what I was PLANNING to do this season, but as you can tell, midget Bettman ruined that!! But, my dad DID give Chas two Predators baseball hats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilpeart_gal Posted December 15, 2004 Author Share Posted December 15, 2004 two Preds hats got da nu page! midget Bettman can go suck an egg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kazzman Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 I don't know why, but I wish it were like in the 1940's when the players tried forming a players association, and it was crushed by the owners... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilpeart_gal Posted December 15, 2004 Author Share Posted December 15, 2004 I can see a need for a player's union but it sure seems to be doing the fans more harm than good right now. Mainly cos Bettman won't bend, tho. At least the union came to the table with something in the right direction. Bettman's only right direction is 'salary cap.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirit of radio Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 GARY BETTMAN has to get his head out of his ass and relize a 24% rollback on salary plus a luxury tax is a great starting point to overcoming this stalemate.Bettman and the owners have over expanded and mismanaged their franchises into oblivion and expect the players to fix it themselves...WHAT A JOKE!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilpeart_gal Posted December 16, 2004 Author Share Posted December 16, 2004 They had the Preds captain on the radio last night. He pretty much said he thinks if they don't play at all this season (which isn't bloody likely now), that could be the end of the NHL. Basically he said the NHLPA just wants the owners to have realistic expectations and like any business, shouldn't be allowed to go into the season making a profit right out of the gate. He said he believes the owners should take some accountablity where their business decisions determine the success of their franchises, not the deal they get up front. Makes sense to me! I think the players are taking this stoppage seriously but the owners/Bettman don't seem to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilpeart_gal Posted December 16, 2004 Author Share Posted December 16, 2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furie Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 QUOTE presumably including replacement players. I hope Washington gets Falco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drumnut Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 Gretzky says lockout could last two years if no deal soon January 3, 2005 GRAND FORKS, N.D. (AP) -- Wayne Gretzky fears the NHL could be shut down for as long as two years if a labor deal is not reached soon. Gretzky, the NHL's all-time leading scorer and part owner of the Phoenix Coyotes, said an ``even more alarming'' scenario could await the league if the lockout is not settled in the next few days. ``I'm scared we could be looking at a year, year-and-a-half, two years, not just three months like a lot of people thought back in September,'' Gretzky said at a news conference Sunday at the World Junior Championships, where Canada will meet Russia in Tuesday's final. The NHL board of governors is to meet Jan. 14 in New York. The league rejected a union proposal and its own counteroffer was turned down during a session Dec. 14. No new talks are scheduled. ``From the standpoint of owners, players and fans, everyone is disappointed there is no hockey,'' Gretzky said. Since the players are not paid between April and October, Gretzky said there may be little chance of any breakthrough during the summer on a new collective bargaining agreement. ``We're going to be back where we were last Sept. 15th come this Sept. 15th,'' he said. Gretzky played in the world juniors for Canada when he was 16. ``I was lucky,'' he said. ``The only reason I made the team is because a couple of older guys got hurt. I was a young kid, and I enjoyed it. I was in awe.'' sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furie Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?ID=111255 apparently one angry fan has found a way to vent his hockey frustration, and make a little cash off the deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhiannon_of_Rivendell Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 We're on the 124th day of the NHL lockout. I just saw on the news that talks are scheduled for Wednesday, but let's not hold our breath folks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drumnut Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kazzman Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Owners being idiotic airheads: Round 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfuentes Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 QUOTE (kazzman @ Jan 17 2005, 08:58 PM) Owners being idiotic airheads: Round 2 Oh joy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Test4VitalSigns Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 I'll be very surprised if they make a deal at this time. If not season is definitely toast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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