barney_rebel Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 NHLPA offers rollback on salaries CP with files from TSN.ca 12/9/2004 TORONTO (CP) - The NHL Players' Association delivered a strong offer as promised Thursday, enough for the NHL to agree to meet again next Tuesday. Sources indicate the union's offer was significant and addressed some of the league's concerns but still didn't include a link between player costs and league revenues - a salary cap, in other words. Among the major points in today's proposal, the NHLPA has offered a 24% rollback on salaries and 20 cent tax on payroll over $45 million. The tax rises to 50 cents on the dollar over $50 million and 60 cents on the dollar over $60 million. The owners would also gain on entry level contracts with a cap on bonuses as well as arbitration rights. "Significant, significant changes,'' said NHLPA executive director Bob Goodenow. The NHLPA says their proposal could save the league up to $600 million in salaries, but sources contacted by TSN said that the offer does not include any kind of mechanism to ensure that the salary giveback remains permanent. NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman called one of the aspects of the players' proposal "significant", and said that the two sides will sit down and meet again next Tuesday, at which time the league is expected to present a counter offer. ''I think it's fair to say that this proposal touched more topics,'' said Bettman. ''Which is again a reason that I can't respond to it until we've been able to digest everything that's in there.'' While there was cautious optimism because the offer was enough to warrant another meeting, that could be wiped out in a hurry next week if the NHL comes back with a counter-proposal that includes the link between player costs and league revenues. Bill Daly, the NHL's executive vice-president and chief legal officer, said the league was taking the new offer seriously. ''They made a serious proposal, which I would suggest was the first one in this process,'' he said. ''But it is a serious proposal and certainly they showed a recognition of the economic problems that the game is facing and certainly we're appreciative of that. We now need to work together with them on systemic elements to make sure the economics of the game stay in-synch going forward.'' Thursday's meeting, which came three months to the day of the last negotiating session Sept. 9, began at 11:23 a.m. and ended around 3:20 p.m., with both sides squeezing in a lunch break at 1:45. It was the first official meeting between the sides since Sept. 9. The lockout, which reached its 85th day Thursday, has forced cancellation of 382 regular-season games plus the 2005 all-star game. The NHL says it lost $1.8 billion US over the 10-year run of the last collective bargaining agreement, including $273 million for the 2002-03 season and $224 million last season. The players dispute those figures. The new NHLPA proposal is touted to save owners well over $200 million next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kazzman Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 Well its a start in the right direction, but I still say there should be a salary cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anagramking Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 Someone mentioned adding more Canadian teams. The problem is the tax burden that Canadian owners face. I've heard that the only team in Canada that can ultimately survive the economic environment is the Leafs. Has anybody heard about this before? I'm from Phoenix originally. I don't know how the city supports the team. They couldn't support a minor league team, the Roadrunners, back in the day, either. When I moved away to Chicago ten years ago, the whole Phoenix area had two ice skating rinks, and ice time was very hard to come by. As for Chicago, Bill Wirtz is scum. I highly recommend reading the underground book on him called "Career Misconduct" so you can get a feel for what this guy is all about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChefEllwood Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 In terms of Canadian teams surviving economically, the worst case scenario would be the survival of the Leafs, Canucks, and Canadiens. Trust me, in Quebec, there'd be a holy war before people would even allow the idea of the Canadiens folding. You'll see a lot more teams folding in the States before you will Canadian ones. Sorry, but being a life long fan, I still maintain that there are some U.S. franchises that should be shut down first, for reasons I've previously mentioned. My sources tell me that hockey will be back by Jan.15. However, the ball is now in Bettman's court. If he comes back with the hard salary cap issue, then the NHLPA will turn around and be able to say that they were trying to bargain in good faith, and ownership didn't want to know about it. A brilliant P.R. move by the NHLPA. We shall see............................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kazzman Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 Bettman's a moron anyway. You all know I'm a supporter of a cap, but if the NHLPA is willing to cut player salaries by that much, I'd accept that deal and try to bargain for a cap again next time around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anagramking Posted December 11, 2004 Share Posted December 11, 2004 Chef, I don't disagree with what you say. I'm just saying that owners in Canada have had such a tough time with their unique set of circumstances. The team in Phoenix moved from Winnipeg because of those circumstances, unfortunately. The league expanded too quickly so the owners could reap the millions in expansion fees. The same thing is happening in the other major sports, to an extent. I think the NHL wasn't prepared for life after Gretzky, also. He added so much to the game's popularity. I was living in LA when they traded for him, and it made me an instant hockey fan. I knew nothing about the game, otherwise, having grown up in Phoenix. I followed the game solely because of him, I'm convinced. And when he faded away/retired, I had a hard time staying into it. It didn't help that I live in Chicago and it's impossible to get into the Hawks, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Test4VitalSigns Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furie Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 QUOTE (ChefEllwood @ Dec 6 2004, 03:33 PM) QUOTE (neilpeart_gal @ Dec 6 2004, 09:13 AM) QUOTE (ChefEllwood @ Dec 3 2004, 06:59 AM) Don't count on new meetings being particularly beneficial to us, the fans. The last words out of Bettman's mouth before talks broke off were ; "we're not even talking the same language". I think the NHLPA is getting a little nervous, because they realize that the longer the strike goes on, the more the fan base, (especially in Canada), shrinks. I think the NHLPA is also afraid of the very real possibility that if the strike were to go on for an extended period of time, some franchises could be shut down permanently, (which I personally think should happen anyway, as the product is too watered down, and career minor-leaguers are given big NHL contracts). Don't forget, I come from an age when hockey actually meant something, when you could afford to take your kids, and when Bobby Orr was the greatest hockey player in the world. You can afford to take your kids in SOME markets (Nashville for one). I don't think the Detroits and New Yorks will ever be reasonable again. But I'm thinking you probably mean that Nashville is one of the teams that should be dissolved (I've heard this before) because its making the game too 'watered down.' I guess my argument would be what better way to expose new fans (esp. future players!) to the game than the NHL live? If it is affordable, there is more chances of that happening, thus keeping the game going. Believe it or not, that does make markets like the Nashvilles and Carolinas a viable idea for the NHL. BTW I challenge anyone to find an NFL market where its affordable to take a family of 4 to a game. Even teams with losing records still have high ticket prices. Among the franchises I would fold are Washington, Phoenix, Pittsburgh, (yeah, I know it's a hockey town, but the only way fans are going to show up is if there's a better product put on the ice), Carolina, (a sink hole for money ; it was a novelty at first, but the thrill has worn off), Columbus, Florida, (the only ones who go are Canadians wintering in Florida, and the New York Islanders, (horrible attendance figures). I'd hold off on Nashville for now, but the possibility of the novelty of NHL hockey could wear off there as well. Even if you got rid of the other above-mentioned franchises and kept Nashville, the league would still be better. Fact of the matter is, put a better product on the ice, and the fans will respond by coming out. However, the longer this strike stays deadlocked, the greater the damage that will occur for both owners, and the NHLPA. Just look at baseball ; it took years for the fans to come back. Nashville may eventually fold regardless of having a good or bad product. This strike just may see to that........................ fold the islanders? they average 14,000 a game. the Coliseum only holds 16,000. that's poor attendance? aside from that sticking point, ticket sales don't generate the majority of the funds, it's merchandising. the islanders do quite well in that respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilpeart_gal Posted December 13, 2004 Author Share Posted December 13, 2004 ANYwho, what do you all think of this salary rollback thingy the players proposed? I just wonder if it is enough for the league to go for it. I wish I could do math better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-0-0-1-0-0-1 Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 QUOTE (neilpeart_gal @ Dec 13 2004, 07:59 AM) ANYwho, what do you all think of this salary rollback thingy the players proposed? I just wonder if it is enough for the league to go for it. I wish I could do math better! The owners want a hard salary cap. I doubt they'll go for this rollback thingy, but I'm hoping... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Test4VitalSigns Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 I think 24% rollback is a very generous offer....The owners must at least make an attempt to keep talking....sticking to the hard salary cap idea is not going to work...They too must come halfway and get this thing done...That's how negotiations work and deals get done...I can see luxury tax coming into play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilpeart_gal Posted December 13, 2004 Author Share Posted December 13, 2004 I agree that the league is going to have to be flexible, or they'll never ever come to an agreement. Lets see if Bettman has the balls to admit that they have to give a little in order to gain the game back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChefEllwood Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 As I mentioned earlier, the ball is in Bettman's court. It was a stroke of genius for the NHLPA to come up with their current offer. Think about it... if your salary was cut back 25%, that's a big chunk of change. BTW, the last few times I did tape for hockey out on the island, there was hardly anyone in the building. T.V. techs practically outnumbered the fans. Furthermore, if you think merchandising is what keeps teams financially solvent, then the Canadiens should be in the black for about a 100 years !!! The Montreal Canadiens jersey has been the highest selling jersey worldwide for years. Just as an example, the Canadiens toque that Theodore wore at the "Classic" , (Habs vs. Oilers otudoors) ; the demand for that hat world-wide was so overwhelming, the Canadiens merchandising department was 4 weeks behind in delivering orders !! In any event, I'm looking forward to tomorrow's counter proposal. A lot of people are holding their breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furie Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=1945492 NHL will only agree to a salary cap, expected to reject the Unions proposal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kazzman Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Well you can definently kiss the season good bye then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Test4VitalSigns Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 What a bunch of blinkholes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChefEllwood Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 The damage to hockey will be incredible if this holds true. That little f**k Bettman is ruining the game. If you listen carefully, you can hear several of the U.S. franchises flushing down the tube. Again, if this story holds true, don't expect any negociations between the two sides until at least next summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilpeart_gal Posted December 14, 2004 Author Share Posted December 14, 2004 This just pisses me off. What more could the players offer them than to roll over and say 'ok Sir Bettman, we'll take the salary cap please' ? What a dicktree. Thanks for nothing, jerkwad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kazzman Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Bettman farged up the NBA and now he's farging up the NHL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilpeart_gal Posted December 14, 2004 Author Share Posted December 14, 2004 Bettman was in Nashville last year and had a Q&A session w/ us season ticket holders. I wish I had seen this coming cos I would have grilled him. I had no idea he'd be such a hard nosed bastard about this. From what he SAID last year, they were willing to work w/ the players. This doesn't seem like that to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kazzman Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 QUOTE (neilpeart_gal @ Dec 14 2004, 12:46 PM) Bettman was in Nashville last year and had a Q&A session w/ us season ticket holders. I wish I had seen this coming cos I would have grilled him. I had no idea he'd be such a hard nosed bastard about this. From what he SAID last year, they were willing to work w/ the players. This doesn't seem like that to me. Even if I had the chance to have a Q&A with him back then I would have grilled him. I never did like him. He was too worried about expansion when he should have been paying attention to the financial aspect of the game instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilpeart_gal Posted December 14, 2004 Author Share Posted December 14, 2004 Stupid bleeping Bettman. No hockey this season, I won't be able to swing the $ for a season ticket next year........IF we still even have a team. I could throttle him!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Test4VitalSigns Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Let's lynch the little farger!!! "Features distorted in the flickering light The faces are twisted and grotesque Silent and stern in the sweltering night, The mob moves like demons possessed. Quiet in conscience, calm in their right, Confident their way is right. WITCH HUNT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilpeart_gal Posted December 14, 2004 Author Share Posted December 14, 2004 Well I don't mean THAT, per se. I just don't see how saying 'salary cap or nothing' is going to get us anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furie Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 i think they (the owners) should accept the 24%, and just impost a defacto cap. simply not sign someone over a set ammount. not written or officail, just something they do between eachother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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