anagramking Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 I said overblown, not insignificant... Edit adding more now: The Yankees have at times been a great example of maximizing outsized resources. The Mets spend money, but they still fail so often. The Dodgers have spent money and failed as well. The A's spend little but are extremely successful over the last five years or so. The Brewers spend little and fail. Advantage big market team, but not as much as people think.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indica Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 QUOTE (anagramking @ Jan 3 2005, 02:04 AM) I said overblown, not insignificant... It's just reality is all it is. Money is what makes the world go around. If you have it, it's more likely you will get what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anagramking Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 The big market vs. small market issue is an important one in baseball especially. Since the Yankees picked up Babe Ruth, they have won roughly one out of every three Series played. The real advantage the Yankees have had in recent years is their ability to keep their home grown talent. I think of teams like the A's and the Expos who have been unable to keep their marquee players. The A's keep regenerating, though. The Mariners had that record setting team after they got rid of the Unit, A-Rod, and Junior, amazingly. Meanwhile, the Yanks win division titles easily. Conversely, they Yankees used to be grossly mismanaged throughout the 80s. No amount of money could get them out of that quagmire they were in. The farm system was completely gutted and they kept overpaying for retreads. The only way out was to rebuild the farm system. They did that when George was banished from MLB. We all saw the fruits of that success. Jeter, Bernie, Mariano, Pettitte, Posada, Brosius. All home grown. No ridiculously high priced mercenaries. O'Neill and Tino were not HOF caliber, but they were very important members of that team. And they took gambles on retreads that paid off handsomely. That's how the Yanks won those championships. The Yanks of now are starting to remind me so much of the 80s version. It remains the same. You still have to build a successful team through the farm system. It's still the best way to do it. The A's know they have to, because they can't afford to play the free agent game. And they know that winning is the thing that brings fans to the park. They don't have Wrigley to sell to fans. The Mariners did it that way, too, for the most part. The Red Sox did not. They will not be as good next year, most likely. The Mets have Minaya in the front office, so they will be building in a more conventional fashion now. Before, they would have overreached and traded for Sosa in an instant. That would have been a mistake. As for the perennial doormats, if they have shitty front offices and shitty farm systems, they'll continue to be doormats. They can afford to improve their farm systems. It will pay off at the gate when they start winning. Free agency is a very risky game to play. It has become overvalued. Why is it that Billy Beane continues to outmaneuver every GM in the game? Indy, you must read Moneyball, if you haven't already. It is such a phenomenal book, and it shows how a Billy Beane can win 90 games consistently on a shoestring budget. Besides, without the Yankees, who would we root against? Surely you enjoy watching them fail as much as I enjoy it. Isn't it great to see George get pissed every November, promising that heads will roll? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indica Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 I don't hate the Yankees or anything, I go to a few Yankee games a year so I support them. My favorite team is the Pirates. They usually suck because they can't afford to keep their top players. As soon as players realize they can make much more in a big city they will go get their money. The pirates have no problem going through the farms and picking out great players, without the support and money, they can't keep them. It's just the reality of things is all. If they had more money and support then they would have no problem keeping the great players and being a better team more often. It's just how it is. It still don't keep me from being a pirates fan, I just don't get to see them in the world series all the time is all. The numbers is all I need to prove my point. Would the Yankees have won so many world series without being in one of the biggest cities in the world? Hell no. The yanks have a payroll that is bigger than any other team, they have more world series wins than any other team, it doesn't take a rocket scientist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anagramking Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 The Yankees were an incredible dynasty from the early 1920s up until 1964. Since the end of the Berra/Mantle/Ford era, they have won only 6 championships. Other teams have won nearly as many in that time. I won't try to refute the notion that the Yankees have an advantage. They definitely do. But once George sucks the life out of that team with his silly ways, it won't be as pronounced. Give him time, he's likely to do it. When he fires Joe Torre, you know it's happening. I miss those great Pirate teams from when I was a kid. Dave Parker was awesome. He had the best arm I ever saw, as I said in a different thread. He had all the tools. It's a shame he let drugs get the best of him. He'd be in the Hall otherwise. Who can forget 1979 and We Are Family? To further your point, George Brett once said that he probably wouldn't have stayed a Royal in today's climate. But again, a solid farm system does wonders. Look at the guys the A's have lost over the years, and they still contend. Please read Moneyball. It will alleviate your concerns about the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indica Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 QUOTE (anagramking @ Jan 3 2005, 08:51 PM) The Yankees were an incredible dynasty from the early 1920s up until 1964. Since the end of the Berra/Mantle/Ford era, they have won only 6 championships. Other teams have won nearly as many in that time. I won't try to refute the notion that the Yankees have an advantage. They definitely do. But once George sucks the life out of that team with his silly ways, it won't be as pronounced. Give him time, he's likely to do it. When he fires Joe Torre, you know it's happening. I miss those great Pirate teams from when I was a kid. Dave Parker was awesome. He had the best arm I ever saw, as I said in a different thread. He had all the tools. It's a shame he let drugs get the best of him. He'd be in the Hall otherwise. Who can forget 1979 and We Are Family? To further your point, George Brett once said that he probably wouldn't have stayed a Royal in today's climate. But again, a solid farm system does wonders. Look at the guys the A's have lost over the years, and they still contend. Please read Moneyball. It will alleviate your concerns about the game. I just love it when sports players like Jerome Bettis takes a paycut to remain a steeler. I have seen a few guys do it in baseball. Some guys would rather take a paycut than retire on any other team. It's hard not to like and respect players like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Presto45 Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 JB, is awesome for doing that sort of thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anagramking Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 Take a cut? Does that mean he deferred money? I've certainly heard of people playing for a team for less money. Junior went to Cincy for less money. Maddux turned down Yankee money to play for the Braves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anagramking Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 The Yanks and the Unit have agreed to the extension. It's done. How meaningful would a ring be in a Yankee uniform for the Unit? Is there any glory in desiring a trade to the Yanks just to win a ring? Is that the right way to go out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilPeartFan2112 Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 His salary is unbelievable. He's a 40 year old man making like 30 million dollars. It's weird where America pays the big bucks these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anagramking Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 Just found out that the Yankee payroll tops $200 mill this upcoming season. Jayson Stark writes here on why they won't win it all: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/stor...yson&id=1960725 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Presto45 Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 HE got an extension Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indica Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 QUOTE (anagramking @ Jan 7 2005, 08:11 PM) Just found out that the Yankee payroll tops $200 mill this upcoming season. Jayson Stark writes here on why they won't win it all: Good, I hope he's correct. I bet they at least make the playoffs. Some teams would kill to make the playoffs. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Test4VitalSigns Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 QUOTE (anagramking @ Jan 6 2005, 05:47 PM) The Yanks and the Unit have agreed to the extension. It's done. How meaningful would a ring be in a Yankee uniform for the Unit? Is there any glory in desiring a trade to the Yanks just to win a ring? Is that the right way to go out? Doesn't guarantee they will win a ring for him. Yanks haven't won anything since 2000. They still spend the most bucks but you win on the field. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indica Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 QUOTE (Test4VitalSigns @ Jan 7 2005, 10:00 PM) QUOTE (anagramking @ Jan 6 2005, 05:47 PM) The Yanks and the Unit have agreed to the extension. It's done. How meaningful would a ring be in a Yankee uniform for the Unit? Is there any glory in desiring a trade to the Yanks just to win a ring? Is that the right way to go out? Doesn't guarantee they will win a ring for him. Yanks haven't won anything since 2000. They still spend the most bucks but you win on the field. Period. Yeah, theres 29 other teams that want to win a world series too. Winning 1/3 of all world series in the last 100 years is about all that any team can possibly ever hope for. If any team won any more than that then there would be tons of people that wouldn't even bother watching baseball anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anagramking Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 Indy, only 6 titles in the last 40 years. The rest came before free agency. It's not so bad. I'll always respect the old Yankee tradition. They put together some amazing teams back then. Yogi won 11 rings. Imagine that. I never liked the Bronx Zoo years (having grown up a Dodger fan), but I have no problem with the recent championship teams they had. This is just silly, though, what they're doing now. And it's still no guarantee of anything. I'm a Jeter fan, too. I like it that he refused a request from the front office to call up Giambi to convince him to sign with the Yankees, because Tino Martinez was his close friend, and the departing first baseman. I think the farm system or lack thereof is going to be devastating for years to come. It is very hard to keep going out there and buying players. Not everyone wants to play there. Vlad told them flat out he wouldn't play for them last year. So they had to settle for Sheffield in right field. He has a lot of risk. Who's in center field? Bernie is about done. Too bad, because I would have liked to see him get 3000 hits, though it was unlikely even if he remained healthy. Anyway, George is all about now. There is no future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anagramking Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Looks like Randy Johnson got a New York welcome yesterday. If he can't handle that one cameraman on the street, I hate to see what happens this upcoming season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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