Counting in music

[Chasartymac]

I think another way to look at it would be this. For those of us who know how to drive a car with a manual gearbox and clutch, when you first started to drive you had to think, 'clutch, change, release,' etc, but the more you drive you reach a point where, on any given journey, you could not remember changing gear once the whole time. It becomes an automatic action. You start in music having no choice BUT to count, but as you get more comfortable with your instrument, (ooh err), and with practise, (practise, practise, practise), counting becomes more of a feel thing and you rely on actually counting only in complex time changes etc. At least that's how it feels to me.

[Slaine mac Roth]

I must admit that, with my previous band, I tended to count during rehersals but never during gigs. I suppose that ties in with what launchpad67a was saying about moving on stage. The place where we rehearsed was a local firm's social club that was barely big enough to fit the drums and keyboards on so I tended to remain still and concentrate on what I was playing. However, when it came to live gigs, I was unable to keep still and, thus, had a sort of built in metronome. I would, however, count during any passages where I didn't play - just as a precaution to make sure I came in at the right moment.

 

Incidentally, I'm a bassist.

[launchpad67a]

QUOTE (CygnusX-1Bk2 @ Nov 24 2004, 04:45 PM)

Right, but most of Rock and Roll is in 4/4. Let me put it this way. Do you have to count every beer in a six pack to recognize the six beers? No. You can look at the group of six bottles or cans and see that are six without having to count them individually. You can also see the pairings of either 3 pairs of 2 or a pair of 3s. The same goes for beats in a measure. If you need to come in on the "&" of 3 you don't have to count every beat from one to three to recognize the third beat and determine the mid point between it and the fourth. As with many things music is about paterns.

Yes, exactly! Thats what I'm talkin' about. It's so natural to me anymore I just don't think about it. That's what giging 4-5 nights a week for 15+ years will do to ya.

Lets not even talk about my poor old 'liver'. Whoa!

Or my hearing...lol!

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

QUOTE (NeilPeartFan2112 @ Nov 24 2004, 02:47 PM)

QUOTE (CygnusX-1Bk2 @ Nov 24 2004, 04:45 PM) Right, but most of Rock and Roll is in 4/4. Let me put it this way. Do you have to count every beer in a six pack to recognize the six beers? No. You can look at the group of six bottles or cans and see that are six without having to count them individually. You can also see the pairings of either 3 pairs of 2 or a pair of 3s. The same goes for beats in a measure. If you need to come in on the "&" of 3 you don't have to count every beat from one to three to recognize the third beat and determine the mid point between it and the fourth. As with many things music is about paterns. Most rock is 4/4. Rush is an exception to that. A lot of their stuff is in other time signatures that are not very common. Right, but see my first post in this topic. Rush will play in 5/4, or 7/8, or 7/4 and so on. Many times they will alternate between time signatures, like in Jacob's Ladder with two different alternating time sigs. I never count these, I listen for the differentiating note (or pulse) in the rhythm rather than paying complete attention to the individual beats of the measures. If you can recognize the 6 beers in a six pack then you can feel the seven beats in 7/8, or five beats in 5/4 (and so on) with out having to count them individually.   Music is more than the number of beats per bar, the notes on the staff and dynamic markings. Music is about conveying a feeling, emotion or attitude. If you are too busy counting the emotional component to music can get lost. I am not saying that counting isn't necessary. What I am saying is that with enough understanding it becomes superfluous to the music itself.   It's not as if Rush are great musicologists with degrees in theory and harmony. If they were I doubt their music would be as interesting (Dream Theater come to mind, all Berklee graduates btw). The music Rush writes comes naturally to them. They don't say "Let's write a song in 7/8", they just write what feels good to them, which, when analyzed later by people like us, turns out to be 7/8 by happenstance.