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On to SC now. I think I'm getting what people complain about with this one. It's a lot... On the one hand, they're playing their butts off, and getting some cool nuggets of classic prog keys in there for Jordan. On the other, the theater portion of dream theater seems a bit muted. I'm not quite getting the level of drama, or at least the emotional resonance, that I usually expect from DT.

 

On the third hand, I'm only halfway through my first listen!

 

Spoke too soon! Repentance just started. Ooo, I'm loving this moodiness so far. And the credits say there are quite a few special voices that appear somewhere on this track.... I like it!

 

That's one of my three favorites from that album.

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Prophets Of War

 

...ah yes... I see they were still a teensy bit obsessed with Muse, and must have listened a good few times to Black Holes & Revelations before writing this! Lol. I love it.

 

You just hit on the second of the three favorites.

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Didn’t get a chance to listen to BC&SL, so I’m playing Count Of Tuscany for the first time ever on the walk over to the theater! Lol. This is epic!
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Didn’t get a chance to listen to BC&SL, so I’m playing Count Of Tuscany for the first time ever on the walk over to the theater! Lol. This is epic!

 

First impressions concert review!

 

 

Okay, so glad I listened to Count Of Tuscany right before the show. It made an incredible encore! Also very glad I got through Train Of Thought and Systematic Chaos yesterday in preparation. Not only do I now love those albums, but Ministry Of Lost Souls and Endless Sacrifice turned out to be among my favorite songs from either record on first listen, as if purely by chance, and of course those are the two they played! Endless Sacrifice in particular was just.... astonishing. Absolutely one of my favorite moments of the night, and I only first heard that song yesterday! Oddly enough, About To Crash wasn't really a major highly for me, even though I love 6 Degrees to death. I think it's just because the tracks from the 6 Degrees suite all just work better in their correct context. Maybe that's the next full album retrospective tour they should do! Also, my seat was like, right at the very edge of the orchestra, four rows in, so I had a spectacular view of JP (when the couple of guys in front of me weren't standing up with little regard for the many seated people behind them), but it was a very muddy place to sit sonically. Some songs were clearer than others, but overall I got a lot of low drums and bass and not enough midrange guitar/keys/vocals. Still absolutely spectacular show though. James was killer all night! True, very little of the setlist was demanding by his standards, but he played it really smart and even surprised me with a long rising high note hear and there, always knowing what to emphasize. Very smart vocalist. The two songs I knew the best going in were both highlights for me. 6:00 was an energetic blast, and Bridges In The Sky might have been the peak of the whole concert. That chorus is just too epic for its own good. That leaves all of the new album material. Would I have preferred some of the new album tracks to be swapped out for others? Sure, in theory. I definitely have more love for Sleeping Giant than Awaken The Master, and I find Answering The Call a much cooler song than Invisible Monster. Also Transcending Time is just so good, I'd have replaced almost any other new song with it. But! In practice, everything they played was killer, and there's not really all that much separating the best from the worst on the new album. Invisible Monster was actually a bit of a sing along, which was really great in unifying the audience! Awaken The Master has that way evil wah wah riff and it killed live, The Alien made an excellent opener and segued into 6:00 extremely well, and of course the title track has grown on me quite a bit since I first heard it. It's a very smooth composition, and the really wicked cool changes can kind of pass you by if you're not paying attention, but of course I was paying very close attention, and it was excellent, especially the more atmospheric parts. Good way to close the main set while still leaving room for Count Of Tuscany to finish the job in the encore. And... that's it? The opening band, Archecho, was absurdly talented. Compositions were maybe a bit too freeform for my taste, but a couple of the guys in that band could definitely keep up with the guys in DT on a technical level. Looking forward to the next time DT comes back around already! (and maybe next time they'll pick more songs I already know! :P )

 

Edited by Entre_Perpetuo
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You know, there's an interesting kind of symmetry going on with the album covers of everything since Mangini joined the band. Look at this!

 

DTOE_DT.jpg

DreamTheater2013AlbumCover.jpg

 

DreamTheaterTheAstonishing.png

Dream_Theater_Distance_Over_Time.png

bmc.jpeg

 

 

Things I notice:

 

- The symmetry of colors/backgrounds.

1. All of them make prominent use of the sky as a background element

2. ADTOE and AVFTTOTW are both very blue, with large swathes of clear blue sky

3. DT and DoT are a opposites, a deep deep midnight blue versus a very light raincloud gray, sorta like black and white

4. The Astonishing sits in the middle, with a medium swath of overcast sky over the metallic gray of its metropolis

 

 

-The scales and perspectives at play

1. ADOTE and AVFTTOTW both have very deep backgrounds that fade into infinity in the clear blue sky, with prominent foreground elements that are seen from maybe 100 feet away or so

2. DT and DoT are both very close up on what appear to be medium sized objects, a floating metal logo and a skull on a metal arm. The backgrounds only subtly hint at any greater distance or scale, just seeing the horizon of a planet or the subtle layers of the inside of a cloud

3. The Astonishing by far captures the most volume in frame, balancing the far reaching cloudy sky with the sprawling metropolis below, both vanishing into the distance like the backgrounds of ADTOE and AVFTTOTW, however right dead center on the cover is a much much closer element, one of the Nomacs, not much farther from the camera than the skull or the logo on DoT and DT

 

 

-The actual things in the images

1. Well the sky and variations on it as mentioned before appears in all of them

2. The roundness of the DT logo is mimicked by the skull on DoT, as well as the Nomac on The Astonishing

3. There are also small round elements in the middle of ADTOE and AVFTTOTW: the unicycle wheel and the boulder respectively

4. Both the man on the unicycle and the boulder caught between two cliffs seem to be suspended in mid air as if disobeying the laws of physics, both seeming very precarious in their positions

5. The elements on the left sides of ADTOE and AVFTTOTW catch the eye and are balanced by relative void on the right. On ADTOE, it's the gap in the tightrope and the tail fin of the airplane, and of AVFTTOTW it's the oversized shoes and the waterfall and foliage.

6. DT and DoT do a similar thing, with the only other notable elements besides the central ones being balanced by total void on the opposite side. DT has the lense flare on its left side and nothing on its right, and DoT has the robot arm on its right side and nothing on its left.

7. The Astonishing is highly symmetrical left and right, most objects balanced by another on the opposite side (notable exceptions, the third nomac on the left side and the taller shadowy building also on the left side with nothing to match them on the right)

 

 

-The album titles

Not where they are on the covers, which is also a little interesting to compare (but broken up by the fact that DT doesn't have Dream Theater written on it in so many words), but the titles themselves. ADTOE and AVFTTOTW are both quite wordy album titles, and both begin with the word "A" (just like two of my favorites: A Farewell To Kings and A Night At The Opera). They also both follow the format "A _ Of _" Meanwhile, Dream Theater and Distance Over Time share DT in their initials, with Distance adding an O in between for a preposition. Of course if we do things the p/g (meaning Grace Under Pressure) way, they have nearly identical initials: DT and D/T. Then there's The Astonishing, which is tied for the fewest words with DT, and has the fewest important words if you start discounting articles and prepositions (not to mention the "title track" is just called "Astonishing" without the "The").

 

 

So there you have it, it's all quite symmetrical and done very cleverly and artistically I might add! Also worth noting The Astonishing is the only one of these not done by Hugh Syme, and I think it shows a bit, but it's also interesting that it's such a symmetrical album cover on its own, giving Hugh the perfect little centerpoint for his own larger symmetrical machinations!

Edited by Entre_Perpetuo
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You know, there's an interesting kind of symmetry going on with the album covers of everything since Mangini joined the band. Look at this!

 

DTOE_DT.jpg

DreamTheater2013AlbumCover.jpg

 

DreamTheaterTheAstonishing.png

Dream_Theater_Distance_Over_Time.png

bmc.jpeg

 

 

Things I notice:

 

- The symmetry of colors/backgrounds.

1. All of them make prominent use of the sky as a background element

2. ADTOE and AVFTTOTW are both very blue, with large swathes of clear blue sky

3. DT and DoT are a opposites, a deep deep midnight blue versus a very light raincloud gray, sorta like black and white

4. The Astonishing sits in the middle, with a medium swath of overcast sky over the metallic gray of its metropolis

 

 

-The scales and perspectives at play

1. ADOTE and AVFTTOTW both have very deep backgrounds that fade into infinity in the clear blue sky, with prominent foreground elements that are seen from maybe 100 feet away or so

2. DT and DoT are both very close up on what appear to be medium sized objects, a floating metal logo and a skull on a metal arm. The backgrounds only subtly hint at any greater distance or scale, just seeing the horizon of a planet or the subtle layers of the inside of a cloud

3. The Astonishing by far captures the most volume in frame, balancing the far reaching cloudy sky with the sprawling metropolis below, both vanishing into the distance like the backgrounds of ADTOE and AVFTTOTW, however right dead center on the cover is a much much closer element, one of the Nomacs, not much farther from the camera than the skull or the logo on DoT and DT

 

 

-The actual things in the images

1. Well the sky and variations on it as mentioned before appears in all of them

2. The roundness of the DT logo is mimicked by the skull on DoT, as well as the Nomac on The Astonishing

3. There are also small round elements in the middle of ADTOE and AVFTTOTW: the unicycle wheel and the boulder respectively

4. Both the man on the unicycle and the boulder caught between two cliffs seem to be suspended in mid air as if disobeying the laws of physics, both seeming very precarious in their positions

5. The elements on the left sides of ADTOE and AVFTTOTW catch the eye and are balanced by relative void on the right. On ADTOE, it's the gap in the tightrope and the tail fin of the airplane, and of AVFTTOTW it's the oversized shoes and the waterfall and foliage.

6. DT and DoT do a similar thing, with the only other notable elements besides the central ones being balanced by total void on the opposite side. DT has the lense flare on its left side and nothing on its right, and DoT has the robot arm on its right side and nothing on its left.

7. The Astonishing is highly symmetrical left and right, most objects balanced by another on the opposite side (notable exceptions, the third nomac on the left side and the taller shadowy building also on the left side with nothing to match them on the right)

 

 

-The album titles

Not where they are on the covers, which is also a little interesting to compare (but broken up by the fact that DT doesn't have Dream Theater written on it in so many words), but the titles themselves. ADTOE and AVFTTOTW are both quite wordy album titles, and both begin with the word "A" (just like two of my favorites: A Farewell To Kings and A Night At The Opera). They also both follow the format "A _ Of _" Meanwhile, Dream Theater and Distance Over Time share DT in their initials, with Distance adding an O in between for a preposition. Of course if we do things the p/g (meaning Grace Under Pressure) way, they have nearly identical initials: DT and D/T. Then there's The Astonishing, which is tied for the fewest words with DT, and has the fewest important words if you start discounting articles and prepositions (not to mention the "title track" is just called "Astonishing" without the "The").

 

 

So there you have it, it's all quite symmetrical and done very cleverly and artistically I might add! Also worth noting The Astonishing is the only one of these not done by Hugh Syme, and I think it shows a bit, but it's also interesting that it's such a symmetrical album cover on its own, giving Hugh the perfect little centerpoint for his own larger symmetrical machinations!

 

Nice to see you using your architecture knowledge for such an interesting breakdown of the covers. This is not something most fans would even think about.

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You know, there's an interesting kind of symmetry going on with the album covers of everything since Mangini joined the band. Look at this!

 

DTOE_DT.jpg

DreamTheater2013AlbumCover.jpg

 

DreamTheaterTheAstonishing.png

Dream_Theater_Distance_Over_Time.png

bmc.jpeg

 

 

Things I notice:

 

- The symmetry of colors/backgrounds.

1. All of them make prominent use of the sky as a background element

2. ADTOE and AVFTTOTW are both very blue, with large swathes of clear blue sky

3. DT and DoT are a opposites, a deep deep midnight blue versus a very light raincloud gray, sorta like black and white

4. The Astonishing sits in the middle, with a medium swath of overcast sky over the metallic gray of its metropolis

 

 

-The scales and perspectives at play

1. ADOTE and AVFTTOTW both have very deep backgrounds that fade into infinity in the clear blue sky, with prominent foreground elements that are seen from maybe 100 feet away or so

2. DT and DoT are both very close up on what appear to be medium sized objects, a floating metal logo and a skull on a metal arm. The backgrounds only subtly hint at any greater distance or scale, just seeing the horizon of a planet or the subtle layers of the inside of a cloud

3. The Astonishing by far captures the most volume in frame, balancing the far reaching cloudy sky with the sprawling metropolis below, both vanishing into the distance like the backgrounds of ADTOE and AVFTTOTW, however right dead center on the cover is a much much closer element, one of the Nomacs, not much farther from the camera than the skull or the logo on DoT and DT

 

 

-The actual things in the images

1. Well the sky and variations on it as mentioned before appears in all of them

2. The roundness of the DT logo is mimicked by the skull on DoT, as well as the Nomac on The Astonishing

3. There are also small round elements in the middle of ADTOE and AVFTTOTW: the unicycle wheel and the boulder respectively

4. Both the man on the unicycle and the boulder caught between two cliffs seem to be suspended in mid air as if disobeying the laws of physics, both seeming very precarious in their positions

5. The elements on the left sides of ADTOE and AVFTTOTW catch the eye and are balanced by relative void on the right. On ADTOE, it's the gap in the tightrope and the tail fin of the airplane, and of AVFTTOTW it's the oversized shoes and the waterfall and foliage.

6. DT and DoT do a similar thing, with the only other notable elements besides the central ones being balanced by total void on the opposite side. DT has the lense flare on its left side and nothing on its right, and DoT has the robot arm on its right side and nothing on its left.

7. The Astonishing is highly symmetrical left and right, most objects balanced by another on the opposite side (notable exceptions, the third nomac on the left side and the taller shadowy building also on the left side with nothing to match them on the right)

 

 

-The album titles

Not where they are on the covers, which is also a little interesting to compare (but broken up by the fact that DT doesn't have Dream Theater written on it in so many words), but the titles themselves. ADTOE and AVFTTOTW are both quite wordy album titles, and both begin with the word "A" (just like two of my favorites: A Farewell To Kings and A Night At The Opera). They also both follow the format "A _ Of _" Meanwhile, Dream Theater and Distance Over Time share DT in their initials, with Distance adding an O in between for a preposition. Of course if we do things the p/g (meaning Grace Under Pressure) way, they have nearly identical initials: DT and D/T. Then there's The Astonishing, which is tied for the fewest words with DT, and has the fewest important words if you start discounting articles and prepositions (not to mention the "title track" is just called "Astonishing" without the "The").

 

 

So there you have it, it's all quite symmetrical and done very cleverly and artistically I might add! Also worth noting The Astonishing is the only one of these not done by Hugh Syme, and I think it shows a bit, but it's also interesting that it's such a symmetrical album cover on its own, giving Hugh the perfect little centerpoint for his own larger symmetrical machinations!

 

Nice to see you using your architecture knowledge for such an interesting breakdown of the covers. This is not something most fans would even think about.

 

Yes I enjoyed this read as well. DT are a band who definitely put a lot of thought into the design of their album covers. Rush were the same.

 

Sometimes I have looked at a new DT cover and found it ugly, then I notice details that make it more and more interesting.

 

Also, EP, glad to see you loving the 2000s era! I did initially, but those records wore off. You have me so excited to relisten again, especially Systematic Chaos.

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I might join you soon.

 

but the difference is i've been a fan since i was 12 so i have my favs and that's that's, lol

 

i've grown to like SC.....not love. but black clouds.......i pass.

 

in fact SC and BC is probably my least fav DT period ever.

 

i was there and i was pretty damn disgusted.

 

but hey some fans love those so you do you.

 

Mick

Edited by bluefox4000
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You know, there's an interesting kind of symmetry going on with the album covers of everything since Mangini joined the band. Look at this!

 

DTOE_DT.jpg

DreamTheater2013AlbumCover.jpg

 

DreamTheaterTheAstonishing.png

Dream_Theater_Distance_Over_Time.png

bmc.jpeg

 

 

Things I notice:

 

- The symmetry of colors/backgrounds.

1. All of them make prominent use of the sky as a background element

2. ADTOE and AVFTTOTW are both very blue, with large swathes of clear blue sky

3. DT and DoT are a opposites, a deep deep midnight blue versus a very light raincloud gray, sorta like black and white

4. The Astonishing sits in the middle, with a medium swath of overcast sky over the metallic gray of its metropolis

 

 

-The scales and perspectives at play

1. ADOTE and AVFTTOTW both have very deep backgrounds that fade into infinity in the clear blue sky, with prominent foreground elements that are seen from maybe 100 feet away or so

2. DT and DoT are both very close up on what appear to be medium sized objects, a floating metal logo and a skull on a metal arm. The backgrounds only subtly hint at any greater distance or scale, just seeing the horizon of a planet or the subtle layers of the inside of a cloud

3. The Astonishing by far captures the most volume in frame, balancing the far reaching cloudy sky with the sprawling metropolis below, both vanishing into the distance like the backgrounds of ADTOE and AVFTTOTW, however right dead center on the cover is a much much closer element, one of the Nomacs, not much farther from the camera than the skull or the logo on DoT and DT

 

 

-The actual things in the images

1. Well the sky and variations on it as mentioned before appears in all of them

2. The roundness of the DT logo is mimicked by the skull on DoT, as well as the Nomac on The Astonishing

3. There are also small round elements in the middle of ADTOE and AVFTTOTW: the unicycle wheel and the boulder respectively

4. Both the man on the unicycle and the boulder caught between two cliffs seem to be suspended in mid air as if disobeying the laws of physics, both seeming very precarious in their positions

5. The elements on the left sides of ADTOE and AVFTTOTW catch the eye and are balanced by relative void on the right. On ADTOE, it's the gap in the tightrope and the tail fin of the airplane, and of AVFTTOTW it's the oversized shoes and the waterfall and foliage.

6. DT and DoT do a similar thing, with the only other notable elements besides the central ones being balanced by total void on the opposite side. DT has the lense flare on its left side and nothing on its right, and DoT has the robot arm on its right side and nothing on its left.

7. The Astonishing is highly symmetrical left and right, most objects balanced by another on the opposite side (notable exceptions, the third nomac on the left side and the taller shadowy building also on the left side with nothing to match them on the right)

 

 

-The album titles

Not where they are on the covers, which is also a little interesting to compare (but broken up by the fact that DT doesn't have Dream Theater written on it in so many words), but the titles themselves. ADTOE and AVFTTOTW are both quite wordy album titles, and both begin with the word "A" (just like two of my favorites: A Farewell To Kings and A Night At The Opera). They also both follow the format "A _ Of _" Meanwhile, Dream Theater and Distance Over Time share DT in their initials, with Distance adding an O in between for a preposition. Of course if we do things the p/g (meaning Grace Under Pressure) way, they have nearly identical initials: DT and D/T. Then there's The Astonishing, which is tied for the fewest words with DT, and has the fewest important words if you start discounting articles and prepositions (not to mention the "title track" is just called "Astonishing" without the "The").

 

 

So there you have it, it's all quite symmetrical and done very cleverly and artistically I might add! Also worth noting The Astonishing is the only one of these not done by Hugh Syme, and I think it shows a bit, but it's also interesting that it's such a symmetrical album cover on its own, giving Hugh the perfect little centerpoint for his own larger symmetrical machinations!

 

Nice to see you using your architecture knowledge for such an interesting breakdown of the covers. This is not something most fans would even think about.

 

Thanks! I just happened to look at them all five lined up in a row and immediately I started noticing things I wouldn't have expected otherwise. Figured a full on breakdown was in order!

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You know, there's an interesting kind of symmetry going on with the album covers of everything since Mangini joined the band. Look at this!

 

DTOE_DT.jpg

DreamTheater2013AlbumCover.jpg

 

DreamTheaterTheAstonishing.png

Dream_Theater_Distance_Over_Time.png

bmc.jpeg

 

 

Things I notice:

 

- The symmetry of colors/backgrounds.

1. All of them make prominent use of the sky as a background element

2. ADTOE and AVFTTOTW are both very blue, with large swathes of clear blue sky

3. DT and DoT are a opposites, a deep deep midnight blue versus a very light raincloud gray, sorta like black and white

4. The Astonishing sits in the middle, with a medium swath of overcast sky over the metallic gray of its metropolis

 

 

-The scales and perspectives at play

1. ADOTE and AVFTTOTW both have very deep backgrounds that fade into infinity in the clear blue sky, with prominent foreground elements that are seen from maybe 100 feet away or so

2. DT and DoT are both very close up on what appear to be medium sized objects, a floating metal logo and a skull on a metal arm. The backgrounds only subtly hint at any greater distance or scale, just seeing the horizon of a planet or the subtle layers of the inside of a cloud

3. The Astonishing by far captures the most volume in frame, balancing the far reaching cloudy sky with the sprawling metropolis below, both vanishing into the distance like the backgrounds of ADTOE and AVFTTOTW, however right dead center on the cover is a much much closer element, one of the Nomacs, not much farther from the camera than the skull or the logo on DoT and DT

 

 

-The actual things in the images

1. Well the sky and variations on it as mentioned before appears in all of them

2. The roundness of the DT logo is mimicked by the skull on DoT, as well as the Nomac on The Astonishing

3. There are also small round elements in the middle of ADTOE and AVFTTOTW: the unicycle wheel and the boulder respectively

4. Both the man on the unicycle and the boulder caught between two cliffs seem to be suspended in mid air as if disobeying the laws of physics, both seeming very precarious in their positions

5. The elements on the left sides of ADTOE and AVFTTOTW catch the eye and are balanced by relative void on the right. On ADTOE, it's the gap in the tightrope and the tail fin of the airplane, and of AVFTTOTW it's the oversized shoes and the waterfall and foliage.

6. DT and DoT do a similar thing, with the only other notable elements besides the central ones being balanced by total void on the opposite side. DT has the lense flare on its left side and nothing on its right, and DoT has the robot arm on its right side and nothing on its left.

7. The Astonishing is highly symmetrical left and right, most objects balanced by another on the opposite side (notable exceptions, the third nomac on the left side and the taller shadowy building also on the left side with nothing to match them on the right)

 

 

-The album titles

Not where they are on the covers, which is also a little interesting to compare (but broken up by the fact that DT doesn't have Dream Theater written on it in so many words), but the titles themselves. ADTOE and AVFTTOTW are both quite wordy album titles, and both begin with the word "A" (just like two of my favorites: A Farewell To Kings and A Night At The Opera). They also both follow the format "A _ Of _" Meanwhile, Dream Theater and Distance Over Time share DT in their initials, with Distance adding an O in between for a preposition. Of course if we do things the p/g (meaning Grace Under Pressure) way, they have nearly identical initials: DT and D/T. Then there's The Astonishing, which is tied for the fewest words with DT, and has the fewest important words if you start discounting articles and prepositions (not to mention the "title track" is just called "Astonishing" without the "The").

 

 

So there you have it, it's all quite symmetrical and done very cleverly and artistically I might add! Also worth noting The Astonishing is the only one of these not done by Hugh Syme, and I think it shows a bit, but it's also interesting that it's such a symmetrical album cover on its own, giving Hugh the perfect little centerpoint for his own larger symmetrical machinations!

 

Nice to see you using your architecture knowledge for such an interesting breakdown of the covers. This is not something most fans would even think about.

 

Yes I enjoyed this read as well. DT are a band who definitely put a lot of thought into the design of their album covers. Rush were the same.

 

Sometimes I have looked at a new DT cover and found it ugly, then I notice details that make it more and more interesting.

 

Also, EP, glad to see you loving the 2000s era! I did initially, but those records wore off. You have me so excited to relisten again, especially Systematic Chaos.

 

Thanks! Yeah I'm struggling to play anything but DT right now, lol. The 00's stuff is great so far! I need to actually figure out the lyrics to Ministry Of Souls and In The Presence Of Enemies. I'm so moved by the music and the phrases I make out that I want to understand them more fully. Honestly I need to do that with all of DT though. The guy I sat next to at the show informed me that John Petrucci is actually a Catholic, and a lot of his lyrics have subtle (or sometimes not so subtle) nods to his faith and also his struggles with his faith. Despite having listened to DT for years, and being Catholic myself no less, I was not aware of this! I just recently actually sat down and read the lyrics to Voices like yesterday... and it was not what I thought that song was about, lol. I have so much more to read through and understand, and so much more music to fully digest. Loving AVFTTOTW (the album and the song) more and more these days as well.

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I might join you soon.

 

but the difference is i've been a fan since i was 12 so i have my favs and that's that's, lol

 

i've grown to like SC.....not love. but black clouds.......i pass.

 

in fact SC and BC is probably my least fav DT period ever.

 

i was there and i was pretty damn disgusted.

 

but hey some fans love those so you do you.

 

Mick

 

Lol, I mean I still need to get all the way through BC&SL, but SC I definitely do see the turn offs. I'm still not sure I'm much a fan of Dark Eternal Night. But Ministry Of Lost Souls and In The Presence Of Enemies definitely grabbed me in a good way. And also Repentance, though I had hoped all the guest vocalists would do a bit more singing and a bit less talking!

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I might join you soon.

 

but the difference is i've been a fan since i was 12 so i have my favs and that's that's, lol

 

i've grown to like SC.....not love. but black clouds.......i pass.

 

in fact SC and BC is probably my least fav DT period ever.

 

i was there and i was pretty damn disgusted.

 

but hey some fans love those so you do you.

 

Mick

 

Lol, I mean I still need to get all the way through BC&SL, but SC I definitely do see the turn offs. I'm still not sure I'm much a fan of Dark Eternal Night. But Ministry Of Lost Souls and In The Presence Of Enemies definitely grabbed me in a good way. And also Repentance, though I had hoped all the guest vocalists would do a bit more singing and a bit less talking!

 

In SC i like

 

In the Presence......(hate that it's split up.....they did it as one piece on the tour......much better IMO.)

Forsaken

Constant motion

Ministry (i feel like i'm the only person on the planet who loves this lol)

 

the rest is meh to bad

 

Mike's Muse obsession reaches disgusting heights here on Prophets of War (really Mike you are not good at muse....... STOOOOOOOOOP!!!!!!!)

 

Repentence is the worst of the 12 step suite......just boring.

 

this albums biggest problem.....and Black Clouds is it suffers from Portnoy-itis, lol. too much Portnoy dictating shit......and he sucks at it, lol

 

Mick

Edited by bluefox4000
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I might join you soon.

 

but the difference is i've been a fan since i was 12 so i have my favs and that's that's, lol

 

i've grown to like SC.....not love. but black clouds.......i pass.

 

in fact SC and BC is probably my least fav DT period ever.

 

i was there and i was pretty damn disgusted.

 

but hey some fans love those so you do you.

 

Mick

 

Lol, I mean I still need to get all the way through BC&SL, but SC I definitely do see the turn offs. I'm still not sure I'm much a fan of Dark Eternal Night. But Ministry Of Lost Souls and In The Presence Of Enemies definitely grabbed me in a good way. And also Repentance, though I had hoped all the guest vocalists would do a bit more singing and a bit less talking!

 

In SC i like

 

In the Presence......(hate that it's split up.....they did it as one piece on the tour......much better IMO.)

Forsaken

Constant motion

Ministry (i feel like i'm the only person on the planet who loves this lol)

 

the rest is meh to bad

 

Mike's Muse obsession reaches disgusting heights here on Prophets of War (really Mike you are not good at muse....... STOOOOOOOOOP!!!!!!!)

 

Repentence is the worst of the 12 step suite......just boring.

 

this albums biggest problem.....and Black Clouds is it suffers from Portnoy-itis, lol. too much Portnoy dictating shit......and he sucks at it, lol

 

Mick

 

Oh I totally was on board with the even more blatant Muse adoration, lol. If it sounds Musey at all it's for me. I forgot about Constant Motion, yes that is very good as well. And I think I also love Ministry!

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You know, there's an interesting kind of symmetry going on with the album covers of everything since Mangini joined the band. Look at this!

 

DTOE_DT.jpg

DreamTheater2013AlbumCover.jpg

 

DreamTheaterTheAstonishing.png

Dream_Theater_Distance_Over_Time.png

bmc.jpeg

 

 

Things I notice:

 

- The symmetry of colors/backgrounds.

1. All of them make prominent use of the sky as a background element

2. ADTOE and AVFTTOTW are both very blue, with large swathes of clear blue sky

3. DT and DoT are a opposites, a deep deep midnight blue versus a very light raincloud gray, sorta like black and white

4. The Astonishing sits in the middle, with a medium swath of overcast sky over the metallic gray of its metropolis

 

 

-The scales and perspectives at play

1. ADOTE and AVFTTOTW both have very deep backgrounds that fade into infinity in the clear blue sky, with prominent foreground elements that are seen from maybe 100 feet away or so

2. DT and DoT are both very close up on what appear to be medium sized objects, a floating metal logo and a skull on a metal arm. The backgrounds only subtly hint at any greater distance or scale, just seeing the horizon of a planet or the subtle layers of the inside of a cloud

3. The Astonishing by far captures the most volume in frame, balancing the far reaching cloudy sky with the sprawling metropolis below, both vanishing into the distance like the backgrounds of ADTOE and AVFTTOTW, however right dead center on the cover is a much much closer element, one of the Nomacs, not much farther from the camera than the skull or the logo on DoT and DT

 

 

-The actual things in the images

1. Well the sky and variations on it as mentioned before appears in all of them

2. The roundness of the DT logo is mimicked by the skull on DoT, as well as the Nomac on The Astonishing

3. There are also small round elements in the middle of ADTOE and AVFTTOTW: the unicycle wheel and the boulder respectively

4. Both the man on the unicycle and the boulder caught between two cliffs seem to be suspended in mid air as if disobeying the laws of physics, both seeming very precarious in their positions

5. The elements on the left sides of ADTOE and AVFTTOTW catch the eye and are balanced by relative void on the right. On ADTOE, it's the gap in the tightrope and the tail fin of the airplane, and of AVFTTOTW it's the oversized shoes and the waterfall and foliage.

6. DT and DoT do a similar thing, with the only other notable elements besides the central ones being balanced by total void on the opposite side. DT has the lense flare on its left side and nothing on its right, and DoT has the robot arm on its right side and nothing on its left.

7. The Astonishing is highly symmetrical left and right, most objects balanced by another on the opposite side (notable exceptions, the third nomac on the left side and the taller shadowy building also on the left side with nothing to match them on the right)

 

 

-The album titles

Not where they are on the covers, which is also a little interesting to compare (but broken up by the fact that DT doesn't have Dream Theater written on it in so many words), but the titles themselves. ADTOE and AVFTTOTW are both quite wordy album titles, and both begin with the word "A" (just like two of my favorites: A Farewell To Kings and A Night At The Opera). They also both follow the format "A _ Of _" Meanwhile, Dream Theater and Distance Over Time share DT in their initials, with Distance adding an O in between for a preposition. Of course if we do things the p/g (meaning Grace Under Pressure) way, they have nearly identical initials: DT and D/T. Then there's The Astonishing, which is tied for the fewest words with DT, and has the fewest important words if you start discounting articles and prepositions (not to mention the "title track" is just called "Astonishing" without the "The").

 

 

So there you have it, it's all quite symmetrical and done very cleverly and artistically I might add! Also worth noting The Astonishing is the only one of these not done by Hugh Syme, and I think it shows a bit, but it's also interesting that it's such a symmetrical album cover on its own, giving Hugh the perfect little centerpoint for his own larger symmetrical machinations!

 

Nice to see you using your architecture knowledge for such an interesting breakdown of the covers. This is not something most fans would even think about.

 

Yes I enjoyed this read as well. DT are a band who definitely put a lot of thought into the design of their album covers. Rush were the same.

 

Sometimes I have looked at a new DT cover and found it ugly, then I notice details that make it more and more interesting.

 

Also, EP, glad to see you loving the 2000s era! I did initially, but those records wore off. You have me so excited to relisten again, especially Systematic Chaos.

 

Thanks! Yeah I'm struggling to play anything but DT right now, lol. The 00's stuff is great so far! I need to actually figure out the lyrics to Ministry Of Souls and In The Presence Of Enemies. I'm so moved by the music and the phrases I make out that I want to understand them more fully. Honestly I need to do that with all of DT though. The guy I sat next to at the show informed me that John Petrucci is actually a Catholic, and a lot of his lyrics have subtle (or sometimes not so subtle) nods to his faith and also his struggles with his faith. Despite having listened to DT for years, and being Catholic myself no less, I was not aware of this! I just recently actually sat down and read the lyrics to Voices like yesterday... and it was not what I thought that song was about, lol. I have so much more to read through and understand, and so much more music to fully digest. Loving AVFTTOTW (the album and the song) more and more these days as well.

 

The title track to the new album is my favourite DT epic

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I might join you soon.

 

but the difference is i've been a fan since i was 12 so i have my favs and that's that's, lol

 

i've grown to like SC.....not love. but black clouds.......i pass.

 

in fact SC and BC is probably my least fav DT period ever.

 

i was there and i was pretty damn disgusted.

 

but hey some fans love those so you do you.

 

Mick

 

Lol, I mean I still need to get all the way through BC&SL, but SC I definitely do see the turn offs. I'm still not sure I'm much a fan of Dark Eternal Night. But Ministry Of Lost Souls and In The Presence Of Enemies definitely grabbed me in a good way. And also Repentance, though I had hoped all the guest vocalists would do a bit more singing and a bit less talking!

 

In SC i like

 

In the Presence......(hate that it's split up.....they did it as one piece on the tour......much better IMO.)

Forsaken

Constant motion

Ministry (i feel like i'm the only person on the planet who loves this lol)

 

the rest is meh to bad

 

Mike's Muse obsession reaches disgusting heights here on Prophets of War (really Mike you are not good at muse....... STOOOOOOOOOP!!!!!!!)

 

Repentence is the worst of the 12 step suite......just boring.

 

this albums biggest problem.....and Black Clouds is it suffers from Portnoy-itis, lol. too much Portnoy dictating shit......and he sucks at it, lol

 

Mick

 

Oh I totally was on board with the even more blatant Muse adoration, lol. If it sounds Musey at all it's for me. I forgot about Constant Motion, yes that is very good as well. And I think I also love Ministry!

 

Ministry amazing and it would easily land in my top 20 DT songs if i made one.....it'd pretty high up too.

 

DT is one of my fav bands ever and i still get shocked by how good they are whenever i come back lol

 

Mick

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Our show is 6 days away in Tampa. Extremely excited.
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Last nights show was tremendous. Of course they have never ever disappointed me.

 

The setlist was still.....different. The highlights for me were:

 

The Alien

Endless Sacrifice (simply incredible)

Bridges in the Sky (EPIC)

Awaken The Master

Ministry of Lost Souls (it really was fantastic and I underestimated it’s power live)

A View From The Top of the World (AMAZING LIVE JUST WOW)

The Count of Tuscany

 

I really really wish they just played a couple of more from the new album in Answering The Call and Transcending Time

 

6:00 was ok....it really is not a tune I ever loved and About To Crash just felt oddly way out of place in this set.

 

But wow.....they were in top form and James sounded great.

 

Looking forward to a lager scale set-list next time.....maybe another Evening With....we gotta have that now with this band. They have too many great songs not to and they are not getting younger. How about a 40 year anniversary "Evening With" format.

Edited by Todem
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Not having an Evening With show this time has to do with the financials of the tour. Opening bands pay a sum to be on the same bill as giants like DT, and this tour saves every penny they could in order to make it viable and low risk.
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Not having an Evening With show this time has to do with the financials of the tour. Opening bands pay a sum to be on the same bill as giants like DT, and this tour saves every penny they could in order to make it viable and low risk.

 

And here I thought they were doing extremely well as a band with a pretty large following. Well......I can only hope they go out on a limb next time around and really give us 2 full set’s again like the DOT tour which was an amazing evening. That set spoiled me. DT’s music is simply not compact enough for the most part to do one set these days. The catalog is vast now.

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Not having an Evening With show this time has to do with the financials of the tour. Opening bands pay a sum to be on the same bill as giants like DT, and this tour saves every penny they could in order to make it viable and low risk.

 

And here I thought they were doing extremely well as a band with a pretty large following. Well......I can only hope they go out on a limb next time around and really give us 2 full set’s again like the DOT tour which was an amazing evening. That set spoiled me. DT’s music is simply not compact enough for the most part to do one set these days. The catalog is vast now.

 

Did they have to cancel shows because of the pandemic? If they did and lost money, perhaps having an opener this time was the better financial decision instead of taking on all the costs themselves.

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Not having an Evening With show this time has to do with the financials of the tour. Opening bands pay a sum to be on the same bill as giants like DT, and this tour saves every penny they could in order to make it viable and low risk.

 

And here I thought they were doing extremely well as a band with a pretty large following. Well......I can only hope they go out on a limb next time around and really give us 2 full set’s again like the DOT tour which was an amazing evening. That set spoiled me. DT’s music is simply not compact enough for the most part to do one set these days. The catalog is vast now.

 

Did they have to cancel shows because of the pandemic? If they did and lost money, perhaps having an opener this time was the better financial decision instead of taking on all the costs themselves.

 

Yes, the Distance Over Time tour was cut short because of covid. And they are financially stable, but not rich enough to go on the road with a risk of cancelling shows...there's the crew to be paid, and other costs that incur if a whole tour is scrapped. Also...the Astonishing tour didn't sell enough tickets, so the "Images, Words and Beyond Tour", which originally was going to be only ONE show, turned into a whole tour, just to cover the losses of the Astonishing dates. Again, they're a profitable unit, but they run a tight ship.

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And hear I thought they had a shorter set list because James’ voice couldn’t do three hours anymore. Here’s hoping there’s another tour in the next couple years that’s back to an evening with format!
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Not having an Evening With show this time has to do with the financials of the tour. Opening bands pay a sum to be on the same bill as giants like DT, and this tour saves every penny they could in order to make it viable and low risk.

 

And here I thought they were doing extremely well as a band with a pretty large following. Well......I can only hope they go out on a limb next time around and really give us 2 full set’s again like the DOT tour which was an amazing evening. That set spoiled me. DT’s music is simply not compact enough for the most part to do one set these days. The catalog is vast now.

 

Did they have to cancel shows because of the pandemic? If they did and lost money, perhaps having an opener this time was the better financial decision instead of taking on all the costs themselves.

 

Yes, the Distance Over Time tour was cut short because of covid. And they are financially stable, but not rich enough to go on the road with a risk of cancelling shows...there's the crew to be paid, and other costs that incur if a whole tour is scrapped. Also...the Astonishing tour didn't sell enough tickets, so the "Images, Words and Beyond Tour", which originally was going to be only ONE show, turned into a whole tour, just to cover the losses of the Astonishing dates. Again, they're a profitable unit, but they run a tight ship.

 

Makes sense. Covid has done an number on bands and tours.

 

I hope they can put something really epic together next time out.....and I gotta be honest too. I really hope Mike P comes back into the fold for their next tour. I miss the crap outta his drumming in this band. Mangini is not human and incredible....but Mike’s playing is just more organic and I think while all of them are healthy and alive and getting along they should find it within themselves to do this if....they desire it (which I hope they do).

 

It would really be special.

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