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Finally getting to this. Answering The Call is a f***ing banger. Still working through the rest of the album but it sounds like a continuation of Distance Over Time without any notion of self-restraint. I'm expecting this one will take a lot longer to burn through for most to form their opinions.
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Finally getting to this. Answering The Call is a f***ing banger. Still working through the rest of the album but it sounds like a continuation of Distance Over Time without any notion of self-restraint. I'm expecting this one will take a lot longer to burn through for most to form their opinions.

 

ETA: I'd put this somewhere in between BC&SL and D/T for comparison, both albums I greatly enjoy. I'm loving this album. The 8-string on Awaken The Master is filthy

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The Alien - Systematic Chaos with Mike Mangini

Answering The Call - Should've been a single

Invisible Monster - DT trying to be on radio

Sleeping Giant - Slow burner, needs a lot of listens before I really "get" it

Transcending Time - In case you didn't already know, these guys love Rush

Awaken the Master - 8-string big dick energy

Title track - DT epic but it's 3 smaller songs

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New album is... okay. The prior album grew on me, this one has a shorter distance to go for me to get there. Second time through was immediately more enjoyable. The lyrics are very meh, a lot of awkward phrasing and not particularly poetic use of language. Musically this is diverse and on par with what we (fans) expect. A lot of their older material (Portnoy era) has decently crafted lyrics, so my suspicion is that this is one of the glaring holes left by his departure.
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New album is... okay. The prior album grew on me, this one has a shorter distance to go for me to get there. Second time through was immediately more enjoyable. The lyrics are very meh, a lot of awkward phrasing and not particularly poetic use of language. Musically this is diverse and on par with what we (fans) expect. A lot of their older material (Portnoy era) has decently crafted lyrics, so my suspicion is that this is one of the glaring holes left by his departure.

 

I dunno, the lyrics have never been the main draw for me to DT. Even in the Portnoy era there were definitely lines that didn't really flow well, or just weren't that poetic overall. Honestly I don't think there are many singers expressive enough to pull off DT's lyrics, but James has the control necessary to do it well.

 

That's not to say DT don't have any great lyrics, they certainly do have some great imagery in many songs, and it's better than average all around. But we're not talking Peart or Dylan levels of depth here.

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Also havng really digested this album much more than a lot of folks i caan do this now.

 

1. Scenes

2. Six Degrees

3. Self Titled

4. Images

5. A View

6. A Dramatic Turn

7. Train of Thought

8. Falling Into Infinity

9. Awake

10. Octavarium

11. Distance over Time

12. Systematic Chaos

13. When Dream and Day Unite

14. Black Clouds

15. The Astonishing

 

Yes i switched some around but my general favs are the same.

 

Mick

 

SFAM and 6DOIT are where we agree, BC&SL and D/T being low are where we disagree.

 

 

Can't rank the new album yet but here's where I'm at

 

1. Six Degrees

2. Scenes

3. Distance Over Time (yeah I love it)

4. BC&SL

5. Awake

6. ADTOE

7. I&W

8. Octavarium

9. Self-titled

10. Train Of Thought

11. Systematic Chaos

12. FII

13. The Astonishing

14. WDADU

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I just want to say I listened to Octavarium today and man... that title track. Almost brought me to tears. Music rarely has that kind of effect on me. Is this my favorite Dream Theater song?? I thought it was Under A Glass Moon!
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Also havng really digested this album much more than a lot of folks i caan do this now.

 

1. Scenes

2. Six Degrees

3. Self Titled

4. Images

5. A View

6. A Dramatic Turn

7. Train of Thought

8. Falling Into Infinity

9. Awake

10. Octavarium

11. Distance over Time

12. Systematic Chaos

13. When Dream and Day Unite

14. Black Clouds

15. The Astonishing

 

Yes i switched some around but my general favs are the same.

 

Mick

 

SFAM and 6DOIT are where we agree, BC&SL and D/T being low are where we disagree.

 

 

Can't rank the new album yet but here's where I'm at

 

1. Six Degrees

2. Scenes

3. Distance Over Time (yeah I love it)

4. BC&SL

5. Awake

6. ADTOE

7. I&W

8. Octavarium

9. Self-titled

10. Train Of Thought

11. Systematic Chaos

12. FII

13. The Astonishing

14. WDADU

 

yea i'm not really huge on Distance

 

i like

 

Fade into Light

Barstool Warrior

S2N

At Wit's end

 

the rest is a hard pass.......people love it. but it leaves me cold. and i can't stand BC & SL

 

lol

 

Mick

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I just want to say I listened to Octavarium today and man... that title track. Almost brought me to tears. Music rarely has that kind of effect on me. Is this my favorite Dream Theater song?? I thought it was Under A Glass Moon!

 

i ADORE Octavirium it rules. i wish the album was as strong as that song.

 

Mick

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I just want to say I listened to Octavarium today and man... that title track. Almost brought me to tears. Music rarely has that kind of effect on me. Is this my favorite Dream Theater song?? I thought it was Under A Glass Moon!

 

The title track is excellent. I used to enjoy Octavarium (the album) more but it's slipped a bit for me. I've found DT at their best when they're heavier, which is something they've (apart from The Astonishing) stuck with since Systematic Chaos.

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I'm at the point after listening to this enough that I think I can say DT's hit a later-career goldmine with their music, much like Iron Maiden did. AVFTTOTW is D/T's rebellious brother. I think they've showed some moments of excellence on ADTOE and the self-titled but these last two are consistently great, something I can't say about an album since BC&SL or Six Degrees.
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I'm at the point after listening to this enough that I think I can say DT's hit a later-career goldmine with their music, much like Iron Maiden did. AVFTTOTW is D/T's rebellious brother. I think they've showed some moments of excellence on ADTOE and the self-titled but these last two are consistently great, something I can't say about an album since BC&SL or Six Degrees.

 

I had a sad thought listening to the album the other day. I was wondering how much longer the band would be able to continue performing live at this high of a level musically. James and Mike are 58. Jordan is 64 and both John's are 54. I think James voice is the main thing I'm worried about because hitting 60 will probably change his vocals a bit.

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I'm at the point after listening to this enough that I think I can say DT's hit a later-career goldmine with their music, much like Iron Maiden did. AVFTTOTW is D/T's rebellious brother. I think they've showed some moments of excellence on ADTOE and the self-titled but these last two are consistently great, something I can't say about an album since BC&SL or Six Degrees.

 

I had a sad thought listening to the album the other day. I was wondering how much longer the band would be able to continue performing live at this high of a level musically. James and Mike are 58. Jordan is 64 and both John's are 54. I think James voice is the main thing I'm worried about because hitting 60 will probably change his vocals a bit.

 

I don't think they'll still be touring in 20 years, and they'll be lucky to keep it up another 10. Hoping to see them on this tour so I don't miss out forever.

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Dang, I played all of Six Degrees today for the first time in a long time, and it nearly brought me to tears too. Solitary Shell... oh man. Such great melodies all over that album. I swear I rarely get emotional with music in that way, usually it takes movies to get a physical reaction out of me... but the storytelling, and Jame's voice. I think that's what modern DT has been missing somewhat. They've not been able to craft these emotionally gut punch stories as well as they used to. The narrative approach of Scenes, Six Degrees, and Octavarium hasn't been there for some time.

 

I'm not forgetting The Astonishing. I listened to the first disc today and I'll listen to the second probably tomorrow... maybe tonight. But The Astonishing goes for something much much different narratively than those three classic examples. At it's core it relies on the classic DT approach of just telling everything from a first person perspective (or an omniscient third person focused in on a single subject) so it can be as pathos heavy and inviting as possible, but the constant jumping of narrators and the plot heavy with inter-character relationships and intrigue is trying to pull together too many threads at once. I don't dislike it, but it's big moments don't break my heart like the previous three I mentioned, and I think that's a big part of why. The album isn't lacking for melody either! Brother Can You Hear Me has been playing on and off in my head for hours now, lol. So I know it's not the melodic aspect (which is oh so important as their lyrics are often simple plainspoken phrases with occasional outstanding imagery) which is keeping me at an arms length. It's the plot. I'm trying to keep track of a few too many things at once, and it doesn't help that James is stuck voicing every single character. I love him as a singer, but he's not Peter Gabriel in the "funny character voices" department, and even Peter didn't write songs with this many voices to portray. There's a Romeo and Juliet thing happening in the middle of a French Revolution scenario, as well as a "music saves us all" theme trying to make itself important, and so far a probably deadly choice between brother and son for one main character. It's complicated, and DT can do complicated, but it's coming at me from so many different angles and so many emotional centers are vying for dominance that I'm not sure who's character arc is the most central. Is it the privileged princess realizing the horror of poverty her first time out in the city? Is it the unbreakable revolutionary condemned to trade his brother's life for that of his son? Is it the peace and love musical messiah who can't attain either of those things in his life? Is it somehow the oppressive tyrant who's tyranny is further driven by trying to protect his daughter and wife from warmongering revolutionaries?? Honestly! With a plot this knotted how is a rock music album supposed to make it shine? Even when Gabriel went way too complex on The Lamb, he kept the through line of a singular main character and his perspective so the audience could at least try to keep up. What's the through line on TA, the whirring digital atonal noise making that pops up now and again?? Okay that one was a bit of a joke, but still, James Labrie alone cannot tackle all of this content. I think it would've been much more ambitious to bring in guest vocalists to help him out, for narratives sake. It's a prog metal opera, the narrative is imperative. And furthermore I think some amount of rewriting could be done to find that narrative through line which can tie long, hopelessly complex stories together (Scenes anyone?), or even a more powerful thematic through line than the whole "music saves us" thing (Six Degrees and mental illness anyone?). Like those other ones, the best moments are exploring each character's psyche. An evil dictator who's secretly at least somewhat redeemable because he just wants the best life for his family? That's pretty interesting! A man forced to choose between the life of his son and the life of his brother, both of whom he swore to protect? Powerful! But these are just moments, even if they're long moments, we then have to jump back to "oh yeah, war going on, oh by the way, hallmark movie romance in aisle 2." The story can't focus, and maybe it's not supposed to. After all, big and ambitious was the name of the game (actually it was The Astonishing, Dream Theater, but that's pretty synonymous with big and ambitious don't you think?). Why try to recapture the magic of Scenes, Six Degrees, or Octavarium when you go for your most extreme ambitions all at once and make this new one something you've never done anything quite like? I can see DT's perspective here, and it's pretty applaudable. This is the same perspective that Rush had going into 2112 after all. But DT have already done their 2112, their The Lamb, their Quadrophenia even. They needed to go bigger, like Broadway musical theater bigger, except its a movie musical, maybe with that Disney high end budget behind it. Here's the real problem: they went too big. I mean what like this has ever been attempted by a rock band before, with this many main characters, this many competing story arcs, this darn much music to write for it all??? I think Dream Theater finally found the limit. They did their best to reach past it, but even these five virtuoso's, masters of their craft, couldn't push past with full success. But hey, it could be worse... U2 could've tried it.

 

Anyway sorry that was supposed to be a really nice message about how much I love Six Degrees, but I realized midway through I had a lot to say about The Astonishing I've never said before. Hope that's an enjoyable half review, lol.

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Actually, thinking about it now, I think D/T has a decent amount of character or driven psychological study songs. Barstool Warrior, Untethered Angel, and Fall Into The Light all come to mind. Obviously the isn't the only kind of DT song I like (The Great Debate for instance), but I feel like looking back it used to be their go to songwriting type and now it just makes occasional appearances next to message or "thing" driven songs. Maybe I'm wrong. Everything I've written here tonight is just top of my head. Feel free to correct me. And I'm not saying that's a bad thing either. Bands learn and grow and no one says you have to keep writing the same kind of songs you always used to. It's just different, and I think that's noteworthy. Edited by Entre_Perpetuo
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Man they did Myung dirty for a while but I can hear him perfectly on this album.

 

He speaks softly and carries a big bass.

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Man they did Myung dirty for a while but I can hear him perfectly on this album.

 

He speaks softly and carries a big bass.

 

I imagine that's new producer Andy sneap. I read up on him. Very impressive resume.

 

Back in the day it was John and Mike doing production.

 

I gave up on DT when Mike left. Mangini is fine and I saw once with Steve Vai but I prefer portnoy. My problem with dt has always been James.

 

Maybe if he would stop wearing tight leather pants he wouldn't be frowning all the time! Lol

 

Anyways glad the dt fans are liking this.

 

And if you not familiar with liquid tension experiment you are missing out.

 

3 minute warning!!!!!

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I thought album Resembled a Portnoy era album so much. mostly Sytematic Chaos a bunch minus the Portnoy-isms that make me HATE that period in time (like his stupid ass "growling") So this to me is SC done right. BUT.....It's not ALL like SC.

 

Invisable Monster is better within the album and recalls Images and Words a bit. Transcending time is my fav song here. VERY melodic hook. I loved and Still love the Alien. Sleeping giabnt is prbably the weirdest thing on here. i didn't know where the heck it was headed but it's a grower for sure.

 

and the title track has become my fav DT epic ever. i've often thought DT is weakest in the longer 18-20 minute epic form but this one nails it.

 

My fav of the magini era. GREAT album.

 

Mick

 

I've completed one listen!

 

Whew! It's not bad, that's for sure. I was worried a bit after I didn't really dig The Alien, but it grew on me. They were just playing circles around my train of thought. And what a way to kick off an album! Mangini continues to prove his metal each album.

 

The production is really stellar. Much heavier than The Astonishing, and much clearer than A Dramatic Turn Of Events (though I do love that album, it sounds like it's in the clouds on the cover). It's even a bit better balanced than Distance Over Time, which sounds great.

 

The songs, hm. I dug The Alien more in the album... Invisible Monster I still like quite a bit... Answering The Call stood out to me... Honestly a lot of these are made of very similar DNA. This isn't at all like DoT where you had a few very unusual ideas (unusual for DT, more rock/alternative ish) which stuck out in the tracklist, for better or for worse. This seems to be a highly consistent listen, with one exception: Transcending Time. This song... I need to hear it again. It's like the eye of the hurricane, the closest thing to a ballad on here but it's not ballad. It's much closer to I Walk Beside You from Octavarium, but it lacks that song's annoying "we're ripping off U2 now" quality. It's a big beautiful soaring pop song, but one that sits comfortably enough next to these hardcore prog metal workouts as to not take you out of the album. I'd say after only one listen this is probably my favorite thing here. I should probably mention the epic too. I'm a big fan of epics, especially the 20 minute variety... this doesn't really feel like one to me. It moves through a few different moods, sure, and it has a good range of dynamics, but I'm not really sure what ties it all together. To me it feels a bit jammy, or like a ten minute song stretched out to 20. It's not short of musical content, mind you, but in comparison to something like Octavarium, it's not as epic in distance as it is in time. Perhaps more listens will change my mind. I did like it, and there's this very beautiful soft section in the middle where James really pulls you in to listen to the lyrics.

 

Here's my major complaint though, and one I think probably keeps it below DoT for me: the melodies often seem to be afterthoughts. If your favorite thing about Dream Theater is listening to four instrumental virtuosos play incredibly complex music at the limits of their powers, this album is exactly what you're looking for. But for me, it's not Dream Theater without those Majestic melodies, and James' expressive voice. It's not like James is phoning it in here or anything. No, I think the problem actually runs deeper. It seems to me that the chord progressions he was given to work with just don't lend themselves to very great melodies. They seem to change tonal centers just when you think you've got the hang of where they're going. James is giving it his best I'm sure, but I think after LTE3 and Petrucci and Rudess' recent solo albums, they must have been in a more instrumental writing mood. I don't hate the melodies that are here either, but they seem distinctly less memorable than those on DoT, or for an example with more complex music to work around, Scenes. Scenes manages to fit great melodies in and around some of DT's most mind bending instrumentals. They didn't quite get there this time, which is fine. Scenes is one of their greatest accomplishments after all, but I'm writing an impromptu review and this is the cons column for me.

 

Anyway, will I buy it? Absolutely.

 

I share your compliant about the melodies not being there like they normally are with them. James does a great job. His voice is on point and very clear throughout the album but as you said, it seems the way the music was written didn't leave a lot of opportunity for those great vocal melodies. I feel the same about the title track. It seems like they're jumping from one musical mood to the next because they trying to do a 20 minute song instead of letting the music naturally flow into making it a song of that length.

 

It's still a pretty good album overall. When it comes to the modern stuff, I would only put it over the Asstonishing though.

 

Sometimes it’s acutely relieving to see someone shares my opinion about something!

 

It took me reading what you said for me to figure out what I thought was missing after listening to it twice. I'm not a musician so I wasn't able to pinpoint it until you came from the musician side of things with your critique.

 

 

It's interesting, as a musician I feel like I should be more appreciative of super complex virtuosic workouts than a non-musician might, but it's still melody and songwriting that I always come back to. Even as a massive prog fan, who loves Tales From Topographic Oceans and recently really enjoyed Soft Machine's Third for the first time, I want a great melody to sing along with as much as anyone else. I still remember the first time I heard that beautiful lead guitar theme in Barstool Warrior a couple years ago, I was so happy! They managed to pull another fantastic soaring line out of thin air, probably my favorite moment on the whole album.

 

I usually like it a lot more when you have the musicianship, melody, songwriting and great lyrics.

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New album is... okay. The prior album grew on me, this one has a shorter distance to go for me to get there. Second time through was immediately more enjoyable. The lyrics are very meh, a lot of awkward phrasing and not particularly poetic use of language. Musically this is diverse and on par with what we (fans) expect. A lot of their older material (Portnoy era) has decently crafted lyrics, so my suspicion is that this is one of the glaring holes left by his departure.

 

Kevin Moore was the lyrics guy. The rest of the guys aren't bad but Petrucci's been slipping for a while now. Even before Portnoy left..Lyrics don't seem to be as important to him as the music. That's one of the aspects I've missed over the years. The Astonishing would have been a masterpiece with even decent lyrics. .

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Dang, I played all of Six Degrees today for the first time in a long time, and it nearly brought me to tears too. Solitary Shell... oh man. Such great melodies all over that album. I swear I rarely get emotional with music in that way, usually it takes movies to get a physical reaction out of me... but the storytelling, and Jame's voice. I think that's what modern DT has been missing somewhat. They've not been able to craft these emotionally gut punch stories as well as they used to. The narrative approach of Scenes, Six Degrees, and Octavarium hasn't been there for some time.

 

I'm not forgetting The Astonishing. I listened to the first disc today and I'll listen to the second probably tomorrow... maybe tonight. But The Astonishing goes for something much much different narratively than those three classic examples. At it's core it relies on the classic DT approach of just telling everything from a first person perspective (or an omniscient third person focused in on a single subject) so it can be as pathos heavy and inviting as possible, but the constant jumping of narrators and the plot heavy with inter-character relationships and intrigue is trying to pull together too many threads at once. I don't dislike it, but it's big moments don't break my heart like the previous three I mentioned, and I think that's a big part of why. The album isn't lacking for melody either! Brother Can You Hear Me has been playing on and off in my head for hours now, lol. So I know it's not the melodic aspect (which is oh so important as their lyrics are often simple plainspoken phrases with occasional outstanding imagery) which is keeping me at an arms length. It's the plot. I'm trying to keep track of a few too many things at once, and it doesn't help that James is stuck voicing every single character. I love him as a singer, but he's not Peter Gabriel in the "funny character voices" department, and even Peter didn't write songs with this many voices to portray. There's a Romeo and Juliet thing happening in the middle of a French Revolution scenario, as well as a "music saves us all" theme trying to make itself important, and so far a probably deadly choice between brother and son for one main character. It's complicated, and DT can do complicated, but it's coming at me from so many different angles and so many emotional centers are vying for dominance that I'm not sure who's character arc is the most central. Is it the privileged princess realizing the horror of poverty her first time out in the city? Is it the unbreakable revolutionary condemned to trade his brother's life for that of his son? Is it the peace and love musical messiah who can't attain either of those things in his life? Is it somehow the oppressive tyrant who's tyranny is further driven by trying to protect his daughter and wife from warmongering revolutionaries?? Honestly! With a plot this knotted how is a rock music album supposed to make it shine? Even when Gabriel went way too complex on The Lamb, he kept the through line of a singular main character and his perspective so the audience could at least try to keep up. What's the through line on TA, the whirring digital atonal noise making that pops up now and again?? Okay that one was a bit of a joke, but still, James Labrie alone cannot tackle all of this content. I think it would've been much more ambitious to bring in guest vocalists to help him out, for narratives sake. It's a prog metal opera, the narrative is imperative. And furthermore I think some amount of rewriting could be done to find that narrative through line which can tie long, hopelessly complex stories together (Scenes anyone?), or even a more powerful thematic through line than the whole "music saves us" thing (Six Degrees and mental illness anyone?). Like those other ones, the best moments are exploring each character's psyche. An evil dictator who's secretly at least somewhat redeemable because he just wants the best life for his family? That's pretty interesting! A man forced to choose between the life of his son and the life of his brother, both of whom he swore to protect? Powerful! But these are just moments, even if they're long moments, we then have to jump back to "oh yeah, war going on, oh by the way, hallmark movie romance in aisle 2." The story can't focus, and maybe it's not supposed to. After all, big and ambitious was the name of the game (actually it was The Astonishing, Dream Theater, but that's pretty synonymous with big and ambitious don't you think?). Why try to recapture the magic of Scenes, Six Degrees, or Octavarium when you go for your most extreme ambitions all at once and make this new one something you've never done anything quite like? I can see DT's perspective here, and it's pretty applaudable. This is the same perspective that Rush had going into 2112 after all. But DT have already done their 2112, their The Lamb, their Quadrophenia even. They needed to go bigger, like Broadway musical theater bigger, except its a movie musical, maybe with that Disney high end budget behind it. Here's the real problem: they went too big. I mean what like this has ever been attempted by a rock band before, with this many main characters, this many competing story arcs, this darn much music to write for it all??? I think Dream Theater finally found the limit. They did their best to reach past it, but even these five virtuoso's, masters of their craft, couldn't push past with full success. But hey, it could be worse... U2 could've tried it.

 

Anyway sorry that was supposed to be a really nice message about how much I love Six Degrees, but I realized midway through I had a lot to say about The Astonishing I've never said before. Hope that's an enjoyable half review, lol.

 

Six Degrees and Octavarium are two of my favorite Dream Theater albums. It doesn't get much better that for me. A combination of everything I like about them. The Astonishing would be right up there too if not for the lyrics. Those tours.were probably my favorite two tours of theirs ever.

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I will put the new album a little bit below the last one. It's a very good album, I just wouldn't rank it among the bands best. I get the comparison to Systematic Chaos. A View is like a focused version of that album. While I don't like anything on it as much as In The Presence Of Enemies, it's certainly not an all over the place album like SC is. A View knows exactly what it is and what it's trying to achieve and the band pulls that off very well on it.
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I will put the new album a little bit below the last one. It's a very good album, I just wouldn't rank it among the bands best. I get the comparison to Systematic Chaos. A View is like a focused version of that album. While I don't like anything on it as much as In The Presence Of Enemies, it's certainly not an all over the place album like SC is. A View knows exactly what it is and what it's trying to achieve and the band pulls that off very well on it.

 

I think I should listen to both Presence songs by themselves. Your enthusiasm makes me wonder if I'm missing out!

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Here is how I rank the Mangini era:

 

The flop (which actually isn't all bad)

5. The Astonishing

 

And then, all absolutely fire:

 

4. The View From The Top Of The World

3. A Dramatic Turn Of Events

2. Dream Theater

1. Distance Over Time

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My my Mangini era

 

5. Astonishing (flat sucks)

4. Distance (good but i don't agree it's amazing one bit)

3. Turn of events (Production is lifeless but lots of great songs. it was DT finally breathing again)

2. DT (Tuneful......some of this era's best melody's and to me it's a crowded production job bt at the same time nice and thick.)

1. A View.....(i feel people are underselling this. even Segue who loves but undercuts it's with his ranking all the time, lol. yes it's nothing new...fine i agree but this is this era pulling off a tremendous effort with an ease most bands dream of. and not only are the songs A class but i believe it's their best sounding album to date.)

 

Mick

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