fraroc Posted February 1 Posted February 1 With the limitations of being a three peice band, we all know Rush werent any strangers to using sampled bits triggered by either the Taurus pedals, Neil's e-drum pads or Geddy's keyboard, especially during Power Windows and beyond when Ged stopped using analog synths onstage in favor of MIDI controllers, but one thing I always found glaringly conspicuous was whenever they would do Force Ten live where after the instrumental break during the final chorus, Geddy would trigger the pre-recorded bass line from the album version via one of his keyboards rather than play that part on his actual bass, and he's continually done that ever since, even after Ged admitted he wanted to shy away from playing keyboard in favor of the bass. Ged did something similar with Scars in a live setting, playing keyboard instead of bass a la Red Sector A but to me, that song gets a pass because Ged wasn't even using a bass guitar to record that looped slap bass line in the studio, it was all synth bass. With Force Ten on the other hand, that sample is clearly the original bassline using the Wal bass, and it would make a casual Rush fan wonder "why isn't he playing it? Why is he using a backing track?" I don't know....Geddy has more than paid his dues in his long career, and with talent of his calibre he's well within his right to play the songs he wrote as he sees fit. I guess I'm just looking at the optics of it...
edhunter Posted February 2 Posted February 2 Yes. He was cheating. I honestly don’t know why Geddy even bothered with the keyboards the last few tours. On videos it’s clear as a bell he’s holding one finger and playing full chords, and doesn’t even switch to different key for the next chord. 2
fraroc Posted February 2 Author Posted February 2 1 hour ago, edhunter said: Yes. He was cheating. I honestly don’t know why Geddy even bothered with the keyboards the last few tours. On videos it’s clear as a bell he’s holding one finger and playing full chords, and doesn’t even switch to different key for the next chord. The best tours for Ged's keyboard playing would probably be Signals and GUP when he was still using analog synths with only a few sequenced parts like the pulsing synth bass in Red Sector A. By the time he changed over from synths to MIDI controllers, you noticed he was starting to use his keyboards and pedals to sample pre-recorded parts rather than play the parts. The keyboard parts on Power Windows and Hold Your Fire were a lot "busier" than the ones on previous albums and realistically, would probably require Rush becoming a four-piece with a Jim Gilmour-type to feasibly replicate them fully live, which is probably why they're finally going to do such a thing with this new tour. 2
1-0-0-1-0-0-1 Posted February 2 Posted February 2 3 hours ago, edhunter said: Yes. He was cheating. I honestly don’t know why Geddy even bothered with the keyboards the last few tours. On videos it’s clear as a bell he’s holding one finger and playing full chords, and doesn’t even switch to different key for the next chord. Yeah, he does that on Mission. Right at the intro, one finger for that first two-chord phrase, and another finger for the second one. But maybe it's not really cheating, seeing as it was played that way in the studio -- electronically as opposed to actually playing the chords. It started out as a sample, and he's just triggering it on stage the same way he did in the studio. 2
treeduck Posted February 2 Posted February 2 (edited) He's a technically orientated player isn't he? Of course he did something technically, who cares what it was? Edited February 2 by treeduck 2
Principled Man Posted February 2 Posted February 2 When the band decided that they wouldn’t have a keyboard player on stage with them, that required the use of extra technology. They had machines assist with certain sounds and melodies. Was it cheating? No. They were recreating some of the music they made in the studio. With all the multi-track recordings that bands have done, it’s to be expected. 2
James Bond Posted February 2 Posted February 2 12 hours ago, fraroc said: The best tours for Ged's keyboard playing would probably be Signals and GUP when he was still using analog synths with only a few sequenced parts like the pulsing synth bass in Red Sector A. By the time he changed over from synths to MIDI controllers, you noticed he was starting to use his keyboards and pedals to sample pre-recorded parts rather than play the parts. The keyboard parts on Power Windows and Hold Your Fire were a lot "busier" than the ones on previous albums and realistically, would probably require Rush becoming a four-piece with a Jim Gilmour-type to feasibly replicate them fully live, which is probably why they're finally going to do such a thing with this new tour. I agree. I expect that, without Neil, they feel less obligation to replicate the music in whichever capacity they can as a "three piece" since one of the most prominent figures of that three piece is missing. Now, Geddy can just chill and play bass, and someone else can worry about the parts and samples (and hopefully backing vocals, as I found the harmonies increasingly distracting on later tours). I enjoyed seeing Geddy just be able to chill during the break on YYZ on the Hawkins shows. Just pedal toning some bass and hanging with Alex and the drummer. I'm eager to see how he'll approach similar sections on other songs, or songs like Red Sector A should it be played on the tour. Different arrangement? New bass parts? It could keep things fresh and exciting. I'm all for it. 1
HemiBeers Posted February 2 Posted February 2 It's cheating when they don't record songs in the studio by playing them live. It's cheating when they cut and paste parts in the studio. It's cheating when the producer tells them...play it this way. Now that we've established this perspective, is it still egregious that they use samples live?
chemistry1973 Posted February 2 Posted February 2 (edited) I’m hoping they’re still bringing on a keyboard player for this coming tour. Edited February 2 by chemistry1973
TheGhostRider Posted February 2 Posted February 2 8 minutes ago, Blue J said: I can't imagine seeing Rush as a 4-piece, really It is hard to imagine Rush as 4 people. They’re the one band where an extra person just feels wrong lol.
Blue J Posted February 2 Posted February 2 22 minutes ago, TheGhostRider said: It is hard to imagine Rush as 4 people. They’re the one band where an extra person just feels wrong lol. I was going to say, I know they were a 4-piece briefly in the late '60s / very early '70s- Hadrian days, or something. But yeah, it just doesn't seem right at this point. If Geddy could do all that he could do through the '80s he can do it now too, lol.
Timbale Posted February 2 Posted February 2 15 hours ago, 1-0-0-1-0-0-1 said: Yeah, he does that on Mission. Right at the intro, one finger for that first two-chord phrase, and another finger for the second one. But maybe it's not really cheating, seeing as it was played that way in the studio -- electronically as opposed to actually playing the chords. It started out as a sample, and he's just triggering it on stage the same way he did in the studio. I’m curious what you mean by “it started out as a sample”…?
1-0-0-1-0-0-1 Posted February 2 Posted February 2 11 minutes ago, Timbale said: I’m curious what you mean by “it started out as a sample”…? That keyboard part sounds like it was composed and played on a computer as opposed to Geddy actually playing the chords on a keyboard. The way the chords slide into each other is what's making me think that, but I could be wrong, of course. So, if it is computer-based, then it would make sense that he just triggers it live by hitting a single key. 1
chemistry1973 Posted February 2 Posted February 2 13 minutes ago, 1-0-0-1-0-0-1 said: That keyboard part sounds like it was composed and played on a computer as opposed to Geddy actually playing the chords on a keyboard. The way the chords slide into each other is what's making me think that, but I could be wrong, of course. So, if it is computer-based, then it would make sense that he just triggers it live by hitting a single key. I hear this in Between the Wheels as well. He’s not playing those off beat chords. He’s just holding down a key to play the ostinato.
Todem Posted February 2 Posted February 2 I really don't care.......they wrote it, recorded it and used technology to assist on the live recreation. Alex still triggered stuff too as well as Geddy and Neil. Now for the upcoming tour they will have a utility player not seen on stage. That's my guess. Can't wait till June!!!
grep Posted February 2 Posted February 2 5 hours ago, Blue J said: I can't imagine seeing Rush as a 4-piece, really Look at it this way. The Who. 4 guys originally. Now it's Pete and Roger, and a bunch of backing people. Are they any less The Who?
Principled Man Posted February 2 Posted February 2 6 hours ago, Blue J said: I can't imagine seeing Rush as a 4-piece, really The Who went from 4 to 5 members on tour quite often. They had a keyboardist tour with them. Rush’s legendary status as a trio has been carved in stone. Chipping away at that stone temple is painful for many. 1
Vectorman Posted February 3 Posted February 3 (edited) I guess technically he cheated (well, if overdubbing was cheating) on the last chorus of the studio version of "Force Ten", too, lol...dropping in those little stingers on the 12th and 14th fret of the G string whilst the root notes were galloping away. Live, it was a trade-off, I guess. On the HYF tour, he was playing the main synth sound on the choruses instead of the bass part on all the choruses. Subsequent tours, he opted to trigger/sequence the keyboard part on the choruses and play the bass notes on the first and second choruses instead. Regarding "Mission", there's a lot of stuff layered up on those chords. I recognize the Prophet VS vocal sound on that in places and that almost pipe organ-esque sound an octave up, I wouldn't be surprised if that's DX7. iirc, I read an interview with Geddy years ago where he noted there's also a Roland D-50 organ sound in there and suggested Andy Richards might have added a Fairlight sound to it as well. And then on top of the synthetic and sampled sounds, those chords are also being played by a real brass band that you can hear fairly prominently. Edited February 3 by Vectorman
PurpleHayes Posted February 3 Posted February 3 He CHEATED, kick him out of the RRHOF just like baseball did with Pete Rose!!
J2112YYZ Posted February 3 Posted February 3 20 hours ago, TheGhostRider said: It is hard to imagine Rush as 4 people. They’re the one band where an extra person just feels wrong lol. Touring without Neil also feels wrong but they're doing it anyways.
Blue J Posted February 3 Posted February 3 19 hours ago, grep said: Look at it this way. The Who. 4 guys originally. Now it's Pete and Roger, and a bunch of backing people. Are they any less The Who? In a word, yes. Just my opinion.
Principled Man Posted February 3 Posted February 3 20 hours ago, grep said: Look at it this way. The Who. 4 guys originally. Now it's Pete and Roger, and a bunch of backing people. Are they any less The Who? 1 hour ago, Blue J said: In a word, yes. Just my opinion. More accurate to call them "Roger and Pete playing the music of The Who". It's their music, so more power to them.
Blue J Posted February 3 Posted February 3 Jimmy Page and Robert Plant playing Zeppelin songs together from 1995-1998- they didn't call themselves Led Zeppelin then. *shrugs*
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