Rush and the meeting with Neil Peart

[JoãoCarvalho]

51 years ago, the fate of Rush and rock was sealed in a rehearsal room; this is the story of that eternal day.

https://rushbrasil.com/en/rush-e-o-encontro-com-neil-peart/

[PurpleHayes]

My understanding was that his drums were packed in garbage cans, not garbage bags. Oh well...

 

Slightly off-topic, but I read in that Rush 50 book that Rutsey had written the lyrics for the first album, but then on the day Geddy was supposed to record his vocals in the studio, he "took them away" and that forced Ged and Al to write their own lyrics on the spot.

 

Anyone know anything more about this? That book puzzles me a bit in that the author takes well-meaning shots at the guys in the band, but doesn't say one critical word about Rutsey. From all the books I've read before, Rutsey could be a real SOB at times...kicking Geddy out of the band around 1971/72, etc. Not letting the guys use his lyrics seems like some kind of pissy passive-aggressive move, but I don't know...

 

What I do know is that if Rutsey stayed in the band they would have wound up like BTO or Grand Funk or Mahogany Rush by the end of the 70s: forgotten.

Edited July 29, 2025 by PurpleHayes

[chemistry1973]

I am so cynical about this stuff.

 

I feel like this is reverse engineered for some reason. It’s not really believable.

 

Perhaps they paid out Rutsey so he couldn’t claim any publishing.

 

The band had most likely worked on these songs heavily before the sessions, so it’s hard to believe new lyrics were written from scratch.

[JARG]

18 hours ago, JoãoCarvalho said:

51 years ago, the fate of Rush and rock was sealed in a rehearsal room; this is the story of that eternal day.

https://rushbrasil.com/en/rush-e-o-encontro-com-neil-peart/

The audition culminated when Geddy suggested they improvise a jam over a song John Rutsey hadn't been interested in playing. "He nailed it. I mean, he really nailed it. I didn't even need to listen to anyone else."

 

If I'm not mistaken, he's talking about what would eventually become Anthem.

[grep]

It was garbage cans.  I think Neil sat on one of them while he played.


There is no way that a young drummer, probably living on a shoestring, is going to carry around his investment in trash bags.  Cans make a lot more sense.

Edited July 29, 2025 by grep

[Timbale]

5 hours ago, chemistry1973 said:

I am so cynical about this stuff.

 

I feel like this is reverse engineered for some reason. It’s not really believable.

 

Perhaps they paid out Rutsey so he couldn’t claim any publishing.

 

The band had most likely worked on these songs heavily before the sessions, so it’s hard to believe new lyrics were written from scratch.

I have always found that story unbelievable, too - surely most of these songs were being played at their gigs are that time, and Geddy was singing them night after night...

 

But I had never thought about the royalty issue.  That is a very interesting angle.

[PurpleHayes]

1 hour ago, Timbale said:

I have always found that story unbelievable, too - surely most of these songs were being played at their gigs are that time, and Geddy was singing them night after night...

 

But I had never thought about the royalty issue.  That is a very interesting angle.

 

Royalties are one of the biggest causes of bands breaking up. Kansas kept going but fighting over royalties destroyed their initial spark...plus, making an album about Native Americans wearing space helmets probably didn't help much.

 

Queen used to bicker too until they decided to split the royalties evenly regardless of who wrote a hit song...too bad other bands didn't learn from their example.

 

I guess if it was about royalties and this happened today, Rutsey would have whined about it on his social media and filed a lawsuit.

Edited July 29, 2025 by PurpleHayes

[Rhyta]

9 hours ago, PurpleHayes said:

My understanding was that his drums were packed in garbage cans, not garbage bags. Oh well...

 

Slightly off-topic, but I read in that Rush 50 book that Rutsey had written the lyrics for the first album, but then on the day Geddy was supposed to record his vocals in the studio, he "took them away" and that forced Ged and Al to write their own lyrics on the spot.

 

Anyone know anything more about this? That book puzzles me a bit in that the author takes well-meaning shots at the guys in the band, but doesn't say one critical word about Rutsey. From all the books I've read before, Rutsey could be a real SOB at times...kicking Geddy out of the band around 1971/72, etc. Not letting the guys use his lyrics seems like some kind of pissy passive-aggressive move, but I don't know...

 

What I do know is that if Rutsey stayed in the band they would have wound up like BTO or Grand Funk or Mahogany Rush by the end of the 70s: forgotten.

Geddy talks about this in My Effin Life, Rutsey sabotaged their recording gig and he and Alex had to come up with lyrics at the last minute. (Geddy had been improvising some any way, so at least he had something to build on).  Rutsey doesn't come off well in his description.  Can't say I blame Geddy, that was a crappy thing to do, not show up with any lyrics when the band had booked recording time.  Classic passive/aggressive move.

Edited July 29, 2025 by Rhyta

[Rhyta]

32 minutes ago, PurpleHayes said:

 

Royalties are one of the biggest causes of bands breaking up. Kansas kept going but fighting over royalties destroyed their initial spark...plus, making an album about Native Americans wearing space helmets probably didn't help much.

 

Queen used to bicker too until they decided to split the royalties evenly regardless of who wrote a hit song...too bad other bands didn't learn from their example.

 

I guess if it was about royalties and this happened today, Rutsey would have whined about it on his social media and filed a lawsuit.

This was also discussed in My Effin' Life,  the band decided to share credits so there would be no fighting or resentments.  It obviously worked, 40 years as a band is very rare.  

 

The only song left of the Rutsey era was Working Man. Geddy and Alex wrote the lyrics.

Edited July 29, 2025 by Rhyta

[Timbale]

6 hours ago, PurpleHayes said:

 

Royalties are one of the biggest causes of bands breaking up. Kansas kept going but fighting over royalties destroyed their initial spark...plus, making an album about Native Americans wearing space helmets probably didn't help much.

 

Queen used to bicker too until they decided to split the royalties evenly regardless of who wrote a hit song...too bad other bands didn't learn from their example.

 

I guess if it was about royalties and this happened today, Rutsey would have whined about it on his social media and filed a lawsuit.

Yeah....I've just never heard of a circumstance where a band preemptively made a decision around royalties ie. you wrote lyrics but we're gonna rewrite them so you don't have credit... which unless I misunderstand is what @chemistry1973 is implying is a possibility.  

 

Actually, I suppose he's implying an agreement was arrived at.  Either way it is quite an interesting possibility - although I believe that Rutsey has a co-write credit on Need Some Love?

Edited July 30, 2025 by Timbale

[chemistry1973]

7 hours ago, Timbale said:

Yeah....I've just never heard of a circumstance where a band preemptively made a decision around royalties ie. you wrote lyrics but we're gonna rewrite them so you don't have credit... which unless I misunderstand is what @chemistry1973 is implying is a possibility.  

 

Actually, I suppose he's implying an agreement was arrived at.  Either way it is quite an interesting possibility - although I believe that Rutsey has a co-write credit on Need Some Love?

I think it’s a slightly strange story Geddy is telling. Rutsey wrote all the songs for the band but decided last minute to withhold mostly all the lyrics for their debut album?  Seems so odd!

 

Then Ged and Al come up with Working Man, Finding MY Way, What you’re doing, Need a Friend during the recording sessions? Not impossible at all, but studio time is expensive. Hard to believe they had writing sessions on studio time with money being tight.

 

Rutsey never talked to the press after he left the band. Kinda weird! 
 

Perhaps Rutsey try to force an agreement by withholding his lyrics, and Ged/Al called his bluff? Or the used Rutsey’s lyrics, paid him off after he left on the condition not to talk to anyone about it?

 

Otherwise it’s a MAJOR dick move on Rutsey’s part.

[PurpleHayes]

2 hours ago, chemistry1973 said:

 

Otherwise it’s a MAJOR dick move on Rutsey’s part.

 

Most likely reason. I don't see Ged and Al being shrewd enough at that age to pull off something like that. Plus, if they were really misers infatuated with money they would never have kept the same crew on most of their tours and they would have developed a reputation as cheapskates.

 

In some book Alex said Rutsey could be very moody. Sounds like moodiness was just one of his character flaws...not including his resemblance to the Crypt Keeper.

 

I wonder if Peart and Rutsey ever met...it's hard to imagine how songs like Anthem and By-Tor would have sounded with Rutsey pounding out a standard 4/4 beat.

Edited July 30, 2025 by PurpleHayes

[Timbale]

2 hours ago, PurpleHayes said:

 

Most likely reason. I don't see Ged and Al being shrewd enough at that age to pull off something like that. Plus, if they were really misers infatuated with money they would never have kept the same crew on most of their tours and they would have developed a reputation as cheapskates.

 

In some book Alex said Rutsey could be very moody. Sounds like moodiness was just one of his character flaws...not including his resemblance to the Crypt Keeper.

 

I wonder if Peart and Rutsey ever met...it's hard to imagine how songs like Anthem and By-Tor would have sounded with Rutsey pounding out a standard 4/4 beat.

 

If memory serves (and it does less and less these days) in Geddy's book he mentions that Rutsey and Peart were both at either his or Lifeson's wedding maybe...?

 

As for shrewd, don't forget that Ray Daniels was already on board - it seems possible he might have had the foresight to make a call about royalties being split up.  I don't know how close they were to Rutsey leaving the band when they were making the album...

[Lurkst]

6 hours ago, PurpleHayes said:

I wonder if Peart and Rutsey ever met...it's hard to imagine how songs like Anthem and By-Tor would have sounded with Rutsey pounding out a standard 4/4 beat.

 

3 hours ago, Timbale said:

 

If memory serves (and it does less and less these days) in Geddy's book he mentions that Rutsey and Peart were both at either his or Lifeson's wedding maybe...?

 

 

Yes and at the wedding they were sitting at the same table! 

 

I've heard an interview with Neil circa Presto where he talks about having met John backstage in Toronto just a few days earlier.

 

This is going back many years, but I have memories of reading a quote from John saying that Geddy had always improvised the lyrics on stage and John wanted to write them down for recording. But he wasn't really happy with the results and tore them up.

 

[chemistry1973]

33 minutes ago, Lurkst said:

 

 

Yes and at the wedding they were sitting at the same table! 

 

I've heard an interview with Neil circa Presto where he talks about having met John backstage in Toronto just a few days earlier.

 

This is going back many years, but I have memories of reading a quote from John saying that Geddy had always improvised the lyrics on stage and John wanted to write them down for recording. But he wasn't really happy with the results and tore them up.

 

So Don’t Fight It and Garden Road were written by Geddy and Al?

[chemistry1973]

3 hours ago, Timbale said:

 

If memory serves (and it does less and less these days) in Geddy's book he mentions that Rutsey and Peart were both at either his or Lifeson's wedding maybe...?

 

As for shrewd, don't forget that Ray Daniels was already on board - it seems possible he might have had the foresight to make a call about royalties being split up.  I don't know how close they were to Rutsey leaving the band when they were making the album...

Yes I would think Ray and a lawyer probably handled Rutsey’s exit and closing business!

 

Rutsey left the band 3 months after the album was released.

[chemistry1973]

6 hours ago, PurpleHayes said:

 

Most likely reason. I don't see Ged and Al being shrewd enough at that age to pull off something like that. Plus, if they were really misers infatuated with money they would never have kept the same crew on most of their tours and they would have developed a reputation as cheapskates.

 

In some book Alex said Rutsey could be very moody. Sounds like moodiness was just one of his character flaws...not including his resemblance to the Crypt Keeper.

 

I wonder if Peart and Rutsey ever met...it's hard to imagine how songs like Anthem and By-Tor would have sounded with Rutsey pounding out a standard 4/4 beat.

No argument about Rutsey’s personality traits, but he wasn’t moody enough to blab to the press…ever. Seems if anything he was a class act. Or muzzled by an NDA.

[ytserush]

On 7/30/2025 at 3:37 PM, chemistry1973 said:

No argument about Rutsey’s personality traits, but he wasn’t moody enough to blab to the press…ever. Seems if anything he was a class act. Or muzzled by an NDA.

 

Can't recall if it was a Rockline episode or a print interview where Geddy and Alex said Rutsey was "taken care of" financially. Predictably, there were no followup questions or answers.

 

 

[PurpleHayes]

4 hours ago, ytserush said:

 

Can't recall if it was a Rockline episode or a print interview where Geddy and Alex said Rutsey was "taken care of" financially. Predictably, there were no followup questions or answers.

 

 

 

If Ged and Al had been a bit more ruthless, "taken care of" could have meant Rutsey would have been found floating facedown in the St. Lawrence River.

[Rod in Toronto]

The tree-way split of the profits makes me wonder if the money from Neil's instructional DVDs was also split between them, since he used Rush songs in them. Does anyone know?