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Landlording: A Discussion of Doing Right


JohnRogers
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So my old man kicked the bucket, RIP Edward.

 

He left me a mess. For all the organizing he had been doing lately he left me a bio-hazard. Enough of Ed living like a homeless guy and a hoarder. A couple of years ago, really like two at most, he got a tenant downstairs. Molly, a bar-maid from one of his favorite gin mills, his words. Molly recently had a baby boy and has a live-in boy friend. I have thus far found no evidence of lease. I have found evidence that Ed was proving electric, gas and WIFI. I beginning to think they live rent free. Ed could be like that. Obviously, a conversation needs to be had, I wanted to wait till after his wake at the bar last Tuesday. Now we're in holiday weekend.

 

I'm sure the small one bedroom apartment is a run down time capsule including the Eisenhower bathroom. With out Ed's income I can't afford to float the house, which he owes $25K on from a line of credit. Ed's apartment will need work, kitchen, bathroom and floors. Property tax is $9K, a few grand cheaper than for the shack I live in.

 

Comps in the 'hood for decent to nice places is $1,700 - 2,000.

 

I'm thinking $900 plus pay your own utilities is fair, what say you? If they balk give them 60 or 90 days to go pound sand?  

 

I don't want to be a jerk, I want to respect my dad's intentions. I am having conversations with my wife and a local real estate agent but I'd like opinions from those who have bothered to read thus far.

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Ask them what they pay in rent today.   Ask them for proof of payment.

if they can't provide, then lay it on the line. $900 a month, and that is a kindness.   If they balk, give them a month for 'compassion' reasons before you start the legal process. So that you can tell the judge at the eviction hearing that you tried to be reasonable (to counteract the sympathy ploy they will obviously try), but your creditors will be zoning in soon and you want to put the affairs in order - while trying to help these people if you can.

Just my opinion. Good luck.

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I don't have anything to offer about being a landlord, but condolences on the loss of your dad. My dad frequently referred to going to the gin mill as well, that part sounded familiar! I'm sorry for the loss to you and your family. The renting proposal you have discussed here sounds very fair.

Edited by blueschica
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1 minute ago, That One Guy said:

Your proposal seems very fair to them.

 

$9,000 a year in property taxes???!?

New Jersey is almost as bad as NYC these days. 

Thee were some fuckups in the mid 2000's with State Worker pension investments apparently. So since then NJ has been jacking up the taxes to cover those commitments.    My info is current as of 2016....but i doubt much has changed since then. Except more taxes of course.

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1 minute ago, grep said:

New Jersey is almost as bad as NYC these days. 

Thee were some fuckups in the mid 2000's with State Worker pension investments apparently. So since then NJ has been jacking up the taxes to cover those commitments.    My info is current as of 2016....but i doubt much has changed since then. Except more taxes of course.

My parents' in Pennsylvania are not much different, and the state has had the same with problems with the state workers retirement fund.  Most states have something, though.  PA has no sales tax on food or clothing so that is kind of nice.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, That One Guy said:

Good lord. My utah property taxes on a 450k home were just hiked to $2200 a year, and I consider that a complete outrage 

We used to live in Salt Lake City.  Utah is among the 10 lowest property tax states in the country.

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First, condolences on the loss of your father.

Obviously an attorney well versed in landlord tenant law is in order.

900/month fair only if you control utility access, (including cable/internet/wifi), otherwise you're going to get screwed.

 "Tenants" are probably as embedded in there as an engorged tick in a dog.  Expect lots of whining, squatting, and altercations.  If they balk,  maximum 90 day notice to evict.  Expect to be calling someone along the lines of 1-800-GOT-JUNK  or a similar service in case they decide to trash the place for spite.

Good luck and stay safe.

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Condolences to your family, and RIP to your father.

 

I don't have any useful advice on being a landlord, other than a former neighbor owned a couple of duplexes and it was a source of never-ending headache and stress for him. I wouldn't be a landlord if I could help it, I think. Did the tenor of your post suggest you'd rather just sell the place, or do you intend to keep it? Maybe offer it to the couple on a sort of "lease to own" deal, and that way they'd take better care of it?

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10 hours ago, That One Guy said:

Your proposal seems very fair to them.

 

$9,000 a year in property taxes???!?

 

10 hours ago, grep said:

New Jersey is almost as bad as NYC these days. 

Thee were some fuckups in the mid 2000's with State Worker pension investments apparently. So since then NJ has been jacking up the taxes to cover those commitments.    My info is current as of 2016....but i doubt much has changed since then. Except more taxes of course.

I was surprised that we paid more in property taxes than dad did in Queens, NYC. Although I'm sure my NJ shack is bigger by 20% square footage.

 

 

9 hours ago, That One Guy said:

If they can pay your thought up rate, how long do you want to be their landlord for, anyway? Is selling inevitable relatively soon in any case?

This is the home I was brought to from the hospital wearing swaddling clothes. First owned by Grand Ma and Grand Pa, then Ed. I lived there most of my childhood, when I didn't live there it was where I spent my summers. During the Giuliani and Bloomberg years while I was away serving in the air force I often thought of living there again for some time. I'd like my Year of Maspeth before selling it. My son is selling his Detroit metro-area home, he might like to live there...over my wife's dead body. She wants him on the west side of the Hudson. The city is a dumpster fire again. At most I'd keep it maybe 24 months, I could also sell it sooner and head south, south-west.

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1 hour ago, pjbear05 said:

First, condolences on the loss of your father.

Obviously an attorney well versed in landlord tenant law is in order.

900/month fair only if you control utility access, (including cable/internet/wifi), otherwise you're going to get screwed.

 "Tenants" are probably as embedded in there as an engorged tick in a dog.  Expect lots of whining, squatting, and altercations.  If they balk,  maximum 90 day notice to evict.  Expect to be calling someone along the lines of 1-800-GOT-JUNK  or a similar service in case they decide to trash the place for spite.

Good luck and stay safe.

 

1 hour ago, Nova Carmina said:

Condolences to your family, and RIP to your father.

 

I don't have any useful advice on being a landlord, other than a former neighbor owned a couple of duplexes and it was a source of never-ending headache and stress for him. I wouldn't be a landlord if I could help it, I think. Did the tenor of your post suggest you'd rather just sell the place, or do you intend to keep it? Maybe offer it to the couple on a sort of "lease to own" deal, and that way they'd take better care of it?

Thanks, I really-really want to keep this all amicable that's how Ed would want it. Selling within two years or less is a real possibility. I have no problem with giving them 90 days notice, I could float that if I had to.

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12 hours ago, That One Guy said:

Good lord. My utah property taxes on a 450k home were just hiked to $2200 a year, and I consider that a complete outrage 

I want to live in Utah.

 

(This comes from a guy about 1000 miles east with a house worth maybe half that and property taxes at 3k/year.)

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8 hours ago, JohnRogers said:

 

I was surprised that we paid more in property taxes than dad did in Queens, NYC. Although I'm sure my NJ shack is bigger by 20% square footage.

 

 

This is the home I was brought to from the hospital wearing swaddling clothes. First owned by Grand Ma and Grand Pa, then Ed. I lived there most of my childhood, when I didn't live there it was where I spent my summers. During the Giuliani and Bloomberg years while I was away serving in the air force I often thought of living there again for some time. I'd like my Year of Maspeth before selling it. My son is selling his Detroit metro-area home, he might like to live there...over my wife's dead body. She wants him on the west side of the Hudson. The city is a dumpster fire again. At most I'd keep it maybe 24 months, I could also sell it sooner and head south, south-west.

That's a good plan Julian, that plan could work.

 

There's a long overdue felonious canyon sports car drive and a free beer waiting for you here in god's country, when you find yourself here again. :cheers:

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If you want to sell the house, you need the tenants out.  If they don’t want to leave, expect at least 1 year, and probably over 2 to get them out.  Evictions are always hard, in Covid they approach the impossible.

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9 minutes ago, NoahLutz said:

If you want to sell the house, you need the tenants out.  If they don’t want to leave, expect at least 1 year, and probably over 2 to get them out.  Evictions are always hard, in Covid they approach the impossible.

I thought a home can be sold with tenants. Some potential new owners like knowing they already have a steady stream of income?

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1 hour ago, JohnRogers said:
2 hours ago, NoahLutz said:

 

I thought a home can be sold with tenants. Some potential new owners like knowing they already have a steady stream of income?

It is certainly possible, but it narrows the possible people who will want to buy your house considerably.  If the buyers have kids, want to do renovations, or simply don’t want to engage in a multi-year battle to rid their new home of strangers, the problem is bigger. If the rent is below market, it narrows it even more.  If you want more money, I suspect you need to get rid of these guys.  Ask a few real estate agents for their advice on how to list your house and ask them: you don’t have to pay them or even decide to list with any of them, and they’ll know your market better than us on the internet.

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I think I decided that what is best for me is to sell the house right away as a gut job. Because of the probate process in NYC the soonest that will be is six months, very possibly 12 months. Short version they pay $650 a month and reimburse Ed for utilities, sounds like this is done all cash. I'll make them aware of the timeline and offer a $10,000 check for their trouble.

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1 hour ago, JohnRogers said:

I think I decided that what is best for me is to sell the house right away as a gut job. Because of the probate process in NYC the soonest that will be is six months, very possibly 12 months. Short version they pay $650 a month and reimburse Ed for utilities, sounds like this is done all cash. I'll make them aware of the timeline and offer a $10,000 check for their trouble.

Sounds like it would work as a win win for those involved. My sisters and I are facing somewhat similar. No renters but my mom is leaving her 60 yr old house in November. Has not had maintenance done on it in 50 years. My mom does not understand the concept of disclosure and has said she will "be creative" to the listing agent because she does not want to list the problems on paper. As if people couldn't tell.  Sigh. . .

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