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I think my 40th Anniversary Moving Picture CD is defective. But it is also... weird.


DJLightray
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So I just got my 40th Anniversary Moving Pictures CD. This is the 3-CD version, not the Super Deluxe with vinyl and toy Barchetta etc. I immediately popped it in and hit play. Tom Sawyer starts and I'm like, sounds good! Wait. Was that a skip? And now a pop? What's going on? I take it out, wipe it off with a lens wipe, and play it again. Same thing. Shit. So I pop it in my PC and rip the CD. Sure enough, there are audible pops at the start of Tom Sawyer. I listen to my already ripped '97 remaster and there are not clicks or pops where I hear them on the new disc. Hm. You know, this is pretty decent sounding otherwise. It's as 'loud' as the Sector version but sounds clearer. Except for those clicks/pops. OK, well, let's see what an internet version from the 40th sounds like. I grab a version and play it, and immediately notice it doesn't have any clicks, but it also is about 3db quieter. It is *exactly* the same length as my new version (and for context, the original, '97 remaster, and Sector versions are all different lengths, as is the 40th. Why? Who knows). OK, well, let's try yet another version off the internet. Same thing, no weird sounds, but it's quieter. What is the deal here? 

Here's is the first half of the song from the 40th CD I received, with no processing, just the raw WAV file.  I was wondering, for those who have this, does yours sound this loud, and does the mastering EQ sound the same? And is it click-free? In this snippet, you can hear several during Geddy's first verse, particularly on the word 'arrogant'. 


https://drive.google.com/file/d/158--w1u0bStYYZmknHrs3rVmt4064sFQ/view?usp=sharing

 

Do I have some kind of mutant CD? Is the 3CD version different than the deluxe version? Did they do a second run and change the mastering?  Did I get a counterfeit version?

 

Edited by DJLightray
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at what point is the pop? 10sec? i have a digital version that was shared with me, that i think is from HD tracks and its definitely softer than your version rip of the CD so i'm guessing mine is a diff source. its 16bit version. my version has no break in the live show so i'm guessing, whoever put this out, either wiped it out, or if HD sourced this, they made it seamless....there has to be a fade on the CDs i imagine.

 

there is a pop/digital click at 10 sec on yours but i don't believe its on mine. could be CD manufacturing error likely. 

 

i a/b them on winamp, same volume, mine is a Flac version but shouldn't matter. 

 

yours is brighter as well but that is the volume....that CD is defective but extremely minor. wonder if the whole lot are? 

 

i gotta admit, if this wasn't pointed out, i would have a really hard time hearing it with speakers, but on headphones, i might have picked up on it...curious if anyone else has any thoughts..... 

 

with headphones, the album is so crisp, i think some of the clicks and such after that are the bass strings....etc, even the snare, etc. the music is that clear....i don't think that is the case at 10sec however. 

 

any ya, i have no issue getting this for free. I've spent more than most of you on the band, i can guarantee that and since the Band cashed out and the current record company has royalty f***ed up most of the 40th releases (this one excluded as far as the music goes), i won't support them. Esp considering the live material sitting in a drawer wasting away....f***ing moronic. i guess they are waiting for all of us to die.....then they will release it for the current generation who could care less...

 

look at most bands pumping out archival live material and doing it right and making money....it makes no sense...but most of what they have done makes no sense when it comes to live material and the mixes for the most part....

 

ninjadave. 

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11 hours ago, ninjadave said:

 

 

there is a pop/digital click at 10 sec on yours but i don't believe its on mine. could be CD manufacturing error likely. 

 

yours is brighter as well but that is the volume....that CD is defective but extremely minor. wonder if the whole lot are? 

 

i gotta admit, if this wasn't pointed out, i would have a really hard time hearing it with speakers, but on headphones, i might have picked up on it...curious if anyone else has any thoughts..... 

 


Here's where I hear artifacts on the part I uploaded. It mostly stops after that in this song (there are a couple near the end), but there are some in other songs throughout the disc. The problem is, once you hear them, you cannot unhear them.

 

00:10 - Digital artifact
00:24 - Thwap

00:27 - Bigger thwap (This one in particular is really noticable to me)

00:31 - Click

 

Also, I do mostly listen in headphones (Sony MDR 7506, which I use for my work doing music production and radio/Club DJing). In speakers a lot of these are not that noticable, but a few are. Mostly I can fix these by grabbing the offending samples from the other versions I downloaded of the 40th and adding 3db. But I shouldn't have to.  I still wonder why they would release the 3CD set at a different volume level than the deluxe set.

 
 

Edited by DJLightray
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On 7/7/2022 at 7:44 AM, DJLightray said:

So I just got my 40th Anniversary Moving Pictures CD. This is the 3-CD version, not the Super Deluxe with vinyl and toy Barchetta etc. I immediately popped it in and hit play. Tom Sawyer starts and I'm like, sounds good! Wait. Was that a skip? And now a pop? What's going on? I take it out, wipe it off with a lens wipe, and play it again. Same thing. Shit. So I pop it in my PC and rip the CD. Sure enough, there are audible pops at the start of Tom Sawyer. I listen to my already ripped '97 remaster and there are not clicks or pops where I hear them on the new disc. Hm. You know, this is pretty decent sounding otherwise. It's as 'loud' as the Sector version but sounds clearer. Except for those clicks/pops. OK, well, let's see what an internet version from the 40th sounds like. I grab a version and play it, and immediately notice it doesn't have any clicks, but it also is about 3db quieter. It is *exactly* the same length as my new version (and for context, the original, '97 remaster, and Sector versions are all different lengths, as is the 40th. Why? Who knows). OK, well, let's try yet another version off the internet. Same thing, no weird sounds, but it's quieter. What is the deal here? 

Here's is the first half of the song from the 40th CD I received, with no processing, just the raw WAV file.  I was wondering, for those who have this, does yours sound this loud, and does the mastering EQ sound the same? And is it click-free? In this snippet, you can hear several during Geddy's first verse, particularly on the word 'arrogant'. 


https://drive.google.com/file/d/158--w1u0bStYYZmknHrs3rVmt4064sFQ/view?usp=sharing

 

Do I have some kind of mutant CD? Is the 3CD version different than the deluxe version? Did they do a second run and change the mastering?  Did I get a counterfeit version?

 

 

The folks over at the Steve Hoffman forums have discussed this release in detail.  It appears to be sourced from Sean Magee's 2015 remaster, but it has added EQ and compression.  This only applies to the CD, not the blu-ray or vinyl.  I haven't seen any mention of the clicks you're talking about, though.

 

Anyways, you're not hearing things, that's just the way the CD was mastered.

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On 7/8/2022 at 7:55 AM, Rush Didact said:

 

The folks over at the Steve Hoffman forums have discussed this release in detail. 

 

 

Wow, they sure have. A very long and meandering thread, indeed.  

 

On 7/8/2022 at 7:55 AM, Rush Didact said:

Anyways, you're not hearing things, that's just the way the CD was mastered.

 

OK, that answers my main question. I can probably remove the defects manually, there's only a couple dozen across the disc. I'm pretty sure if it was on all the CDs it would already have been discussed. Thanks!  Is the Magee remaster the Sector 2 one or is it something different?

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12 hours ago, DJLightray said:

 

Wow, they sure have. A very long and meandering thread, indeed.  

 

 

OK, that answers my main question. I can probably remove the defects manually, there's only a couple dozen across the disc. I'm pretty sure if it was on all the CDs it would already have been discussed. Thanks!  Is the Magee remaster the Sector 2 one or is it something different?

 

Something different.  Andy Van Dette remastered the whole catalogue for the Sectors boxsets in 2013 (except for S&A and CA), and then Sean Magee remastered them all again for the vinyl re-releases in 2015 (except for VT and CA).  Magee's masters are vastly superior to Van Dette's.

Edited by Rush Didact
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DJLightray, I find your post very interesting!

 

I have a few questions and wish to make a few comments:

 

Are you sampling using a third party app or deliberately looking for defects? You will find them, in almost all digital media.

If you are just turning up the music for easy listening and finding "pops" and "skips" on a CD, it is one of the 1-in-a-thousand defects. You have a defective order and should request a return/replace.

 

(I don't work for, or in any way, am associated with the band) And I used to rip-burn in multiple formats to try and hear differences in sound.

 

I looked at the Backstage offers for the 40th release and it is a lot different than last year. But there is no "3 CD" release, per say. There was? There are no details about the sample rate, the hi-res recordings, etc. I don't see them now and they used to list them. It almost looks like the order and demand system has folded under the pressure. That's a good sign the release was very popular. Have you heard others speak about defects in the recordings?

 

Did you order from a third party? 

Yes, the guys have said they have no control over the marketing and releases, so we hear, but this might not be a RUSH thing - in my opinion, this is an ordering a product thing, no?

 

Reading your post, I listened again to my version of the 40th first CD, Moving Pictures. 

Marantz SR4023 amp with Stagg SHP-2300 headphones (not hi-fi by any means, but not junk?

 

In the past I have wound my own voice coils and built cabinets for speakers to experiment with different sound qualities. I have used tube amps and circuit amps to play songs and hear the difference.

Then (sadly) I lost hearing in one ear, four years ago. But it is amazing how sound still sounds "good", "off", "bad", etc. It's the recording, stupid! I tell myself.

So I am not trying to say what sounds better or not. Those days are gone, but defects? "Pops" and "skips" and "relics" and "loss"? Not in the Deluxe version, with the vinyl and the toy car. Not to my ears.

 

Your link is perhaps a bit "cathedral" sounding, or "Hall" sounding - but I didn't hear pops or skips on it. You were asking who has the same brightness? Tell me now, am I unable to hear obvious defects in recordings?

 

The snares in Tom Sawyer can sound like "clipping" and around 2:18 Alex maybe runs out of fingers, but the song was always one of their most challenging songs. That goes for the recording sessions, every...single time, no?

The references to forums about the release are about 56 pages long. Nobody mentioned an issue with a faulty recording that I read, just other stuff. Or did I stop reading too soon?

 

Curious as to your reply, not in jest, but in the opinion of the the recording and hearing faults. These guys really cared about the recordings!

 

Cheers :)

 

 

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Yes @DJLightray you are RIGHT. I extracted Tom Sawyer from my own 40th anniv. audio CD (ordered from rush.com) and I hear obvious pops.  I extracted with Exact Audio Copy and it was accurately ripped, track quality 100% (no copy errors, perfect digital copy). I could easily hear the pop at 25 seconds, and the real obvious one at 28 seconds - that one is awful.

 

I analysed in Cool Edit Pro and yup, the artifacts are visible in the Spectral View.  I only looked at the 1st 30 seconds of Tom Sawyer and boom, mistakes are glaringly obvious.

 

(I also downloaded it from Amazon Music and the same pops are present)

 

y4mqQiG2wga_uLXlnfI5xpSoVJr7GVRT9Sx_LYKn

 

y4mcMcDHiSMsNbwGEZFE6yY4vw_eEsupk6uKqGc3

 

Raw .WAV file here:

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AhLz3m2U6ZgegZwsv98MC0BXwGT3Sw?e=pwPue9

Edited by currygoat11
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On 7/12/2022 at 7:31 PM, Bahamas said:

DJLightray, I find your post very interesting!

 

I have a few questions and wish to make a few comments:

 

Are you sampling using a third party app or deliberately looking for defects? You will find them, in almost all digital media.

If you are just turning up the music for easy listening and finding "pops" and "skips" on a CD, it is one of the 1-in-a-thousand defects. You have a defective order and should request a return/replace.

 

(I don't work for, or in any way, am associated with the band) And I used to rip-burn in multiple formats to try and hear differences in sound.

 

I looked at the Backstage offers for the 40th release and it is a lot different than last year. But there is no "3 CD" release, per say. There was? There are no details about the sample rate, the hi-res recordings, etc. I don't see them now and they used to list them. It almost looks like the order and demand system has folded under the pressure. That's a good sign the release was very popular. Have you heard others speak about defects in the recordings?

 

Did you order from a third party? 

Yes, the guys have said they have no control over the marketing and releases, so we hear, but this might not be a RUSH thing - in my opinion, this is an ordering a product thing, no?

 

Reading your post, I listened again to my version of the 40th first CD, Moving Pictures. 

Marantz SR4023 amp with Stagg SHP-2300 headphones (not hi-fi by any means, but not junk?

 

In the past I have wound my own voice coils and built cabinets for speakers to experiment with different sound qualities. I have used tube amps and circuit amps to play songs and hear the difference.

Then (sadly) I lost hearing in one ear, four years ago. But it is amazing how sound still sounds "good", "off", "bad", etc. It's the recording, stupid! I tell myself.

So I am not trying to say what sounds better or not. Those days are gone, but defects? "Pops" and "skips" and "relics" and "loss"? Not in the Deluxe version, with the vinyl and the toy car. Not to my ears.

 

Your link is perhaps a bit "cathedral" sounding, or "Hall" sounding - but I didn't hear pops or skips on it. You were asking who has the same brightness? Tell me now, am I unable to hear obvious defects in recordings?

 

The snares in Tom Sawyer can sound like "clipping" and around 2:18 Alex maybe runs out of fingers, but the song was always one of their most challenging songs. That goes for the recording sessions, every...single time, no?

The references to forums about the release are about 56 pages long. Nobody mentioned an issue with a faulty recording that I read, just other stuff. Or did I stop reading too soon?

 

Curious as to your reply, not in jest, but in the opinion of the the recording and hearing faults. These guys really cared about the recordings!

 

Cheers :)

 

 

 

You can buy just the 3CD set here. This is definitely a legit release. 
Rush - Moving Pictures (40th Anniversary)[Deluxe 3 CD] - Amazon.com Music

 

The Giant deluxe package with vinyl and everything seems to have a different version of the album tracks.  So, this is a problem specific to the 3CD release. As noted above, by someone with the same set, this is not just a problem with my CD. I have done a lot of audio restoration work on old vinyl, so my ears are particularly sensitive to minor defects that you can probably only hear in headphones. But I can also fix this myself. 

Anyway my main question(s) were answered, that there isn't much to be done, since it appears the entire run of the three CD set has the same issue. TBH I don't care that much because I mostly just wanted the live stuff. I suppose I should now go in search of the McGee versions tho.

 

BTW I'm not placing any blame on anyone other than whoever was supposed to verify the test pressing of the CD at the label.  

Edited by DJLightray
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On 7/12/2022 at 8:09 PM, currygoat11 said:

Yes @DJLightray you are RIGHT. I extracted Tom Sawyer from my own 40th anniv. audio CD (ordered from rush.com) and I hear obvious pops.  I extracted with Exact Audio Copy and it was accurately ripped, track quality 100% (no copy errors, perfect digital copy). I could easily hear the pop at 25 seconds, and the real obvious one at 28 seconds - that one is awful.

 

I analysed in Cool Edit Pro and yup, the artifacts are visible in the Spectral View.  I only looked at the 1st 30 seconds of Tom Sawyer and boom, mistakes are glaringly obvious.

 

(I also downloaded it from Amazon Music and the same pops are present)

 

y4mqQiG2wga_uLXlnfI5xpSoVJr7GVRT9Sx_LYKn

 

y4mcMcDHiSMsNbwGEZFE6yY4vw_eEsupk6uKqGc3

 

Raw .WAV file here:

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AhLz3m2U6ZgegZwsv98MC0BXwGT3Sw?e=pwPue9

 

Thanks for looking at this, I like to know when I'm not imagining things!

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