A Show of Hands - Audio analysis of different versions (including video versions)

[DJLightray]

So, I finally got around to hooking up my old Pioneer CLD-D702 laserdisc player to my pretty new-ish video capture setup.  Two of the laserdiscs I have are A Show of Hands and Exit Stage Left. After ripping the ASOH laserdisc, I compared it to the DVD rip I made from Replay x3 and as everyone has been saying, the audio is noticeably better on the laserdisc.  But that got me thinking, how does it compare to the original ASOH 1989 CD, 1997 remaster, and Sector 3 versions? So, I happen to have the original CD, the remaster CD, and someone was kind enough to send me a copy of Big Money from their Sector 3 box. Maybe a lot of this has already been covered, but here's my take on all of this. For context, I do have some experience in the realm of music production and audio engineering and mastering, although I am not a master in this field.

 

1) The first thing I discovered is that the audio from the DVD and the laser disc both run at the same speed but are 0.2% faster than the original CD and 1997 remaster CD. That doesn't sound like a lot, but after 6 minutes, you are off by a full second. 

 

2) The second thing I noticed is that the audio for the DVD and laser disc is not running at a constant rate faster than the original CD and 1997 remaster, but the difference between the video and audio-only version seems to fluctuate. I slowed down the video versions so that the opening chord hits and final chord hits line up. But halfway through the track, the audio from the video versions is quite noticeably off from the audio-only versions.

 

3) As for the Sector version, it *also* runs faster than the original and 1997 remaster by the same percentage as the video versions. BUT unlike the video versions, if you line the first and least beats up (at least on Big Money), it stays completely in sync with the original and 1997 remaster. 

 

4) The main difference between the original CD and the 1997 remaster is volume. The 1997 remaster is 4 dB louder. That's a lot, but since the original CD left about 6dB of available overhead, increasing the volume with a good  compressor/limiter would be pretty transparent. There is a very slight midrange reduction and sub boost in the remaster but when you A/B them at relative volume it's pretty nit-picky. The remaster has more bottom but sounds a little 'colder'. I suspect people's preferences on which version is better is heavily dependent on their listening environment. 

 

5) The Sector version is definitely 'fuller' sounding. I had not heard this version and know nothing about how it was made, but my impression after a few listens is that it was done with pretty careful application of various parametric EQs and multi-band compressors/limiters. I am pretty impressed that they were able to get it to sound this way, especially reducing the harshness in the upper midrange but not reducing the high end clarity.

 

6) You can really hear Alex's background vocals on the video versions, especially on the Laserdisc version.

 

7) The crowd noise on the laserdisc version is VERY prominient. It's not quite "Rush in Rio" but it is a LOT louder than the DVD version and most of it is completely gone from the audio-only versions.

 

8) While the laserdisc audio is clearly better than the DVD audio, neither is close to any of the audio-only releases. Neil's kick drum, for example, is barely audible at times; At the very end of Big Money, there is a pause before the final all-in crash ending. On the audio-only versions, Neil's kick fill is quite prominent. You cannot hear it at all on the DVD or laserdisc versions. It's mostly a indistinct thump on most of the video when the band is full-on.

 

My original thought was to use the Sector audio to replace the audio on the DVD release but now I'm not sure, since I would have to spend a lot of time syncing the audio to the video where they drift. I almost wonder if that isn't why the Sector version runs faster than the original CD. Maybe someone had the same thought and then realized it was going to be a huge time investment?

 

 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2022 by DJLightray
Clarification

[currygoat11]

OK I'm confused....

 

The ASOH video version of 'The Big Money' is a different performance than the ASOH audio CD version of the same song?  Right?  I mean I notice obvious differences in the singing after I compared the Laserdisc video vs. the audio CD version for this song. The reason I bring this up is that your point #1 you appear to be comparing  'The Big Money' from the video vs. the audio CD as if they are the exact same performance; please let me know maybe I'm missing something ... sorry if so LOL

Edited July 1, 2022 by currygoat11

[DJLightray]

Well shit. I knew that some tracks on the audio version were from different shows (stages?), but for Big Money and some others they both just say they were from Birmingham, so I assumed (my bad) they would source the same audio for those tracks (to save time and (big) money on mixing and mastering). I was too focused on the EQ and mix that I didn't pay attention to the performance. Anyway, that explains a lot of what I noticed. However, that still leaves me wondering what was going on with the Sector version of the show, and why it runs at different speed than the original audio CD or the '97 remaster.  That also explains Alex's vocals on the audio CD being almost non-existent, and why they are buried in the DVD mix as well (since that is a remix more than a remaster). It also doesn't explain why the mix (not just EQ but actual mix) on the video versions don't come close to the mix on the audio-only CD.  Clearly they had access to the different soundboard tracks when they remixed the DVD version as Neil's hi-hat and ride cymbals are way louder in the DVD version. This does give me an idea though.

Edited July 1, 2022 by DJLightray

[taurus]

On 6/29/2022 at 8:14 AM, DJLightray said:

the original and 1997 remaster. 

 

4) The main difference between the original CD and the 1997 remaster is volume. The 1997 remaster is 4 dB louder. That's a lot, but since the original CD left about 6dB of available overhead, increasing the volume with a good  compressor/limiter would be pretty transparent. There is a very slight midrange reduction and sub boost in the remaster but when you A/B them at relative volume it's pretty nit-picky. The remaster has more bottom but sounds a little 'colder'. I suspect people's preferences on which version is better is heavily dependent on their listening environment. 

 

5) The Sector version is definitely 'fuller' sounding. I had not heard this version and know nothing about how it was made, but my impression after a few listens is that it was done with pretty careful application of various parametric EQs and multi-band compressors/

Thanks for the analysis, will you be doing something like this comparing the ESL Laser/VHS/DVD?

[Rush Didact]

10 hours ago, taurus said:

Thanks for the analysis, will you be doing something like this comparing the ESL Laser/VHS/DVD?

 

There wouldn't be much point.  ESL wasn't remixed for DVD like ASOH was, so VHS and DVD should be identical.  (Except the DVD sounds like a pile of ass because of the overwhelming compression Rick Chycki threw on it.)  I don't know about the laserdisc, if it has anything extra compared to the VHS, but it should also be the same mix.

[DJLightray]

11 hours ago, Rush Didact said:

 

There wouldn't be much point.  ESL wasn't remixed for DVD like ASOH was, so VHS and DVD should be identical.  (Except the DVD sounds like a pile of ass because of the overwhelming compression Rick Chycki threw on it.)  I don't know about the laserdisc, if it has anything extra compared to the VHS, but it should also be the same mix.

 

I'm pretty sure it *was* remixed. The ESL liner in the Replay x3 does say "5.1 and stereo mix by Mike Fraser and Alex Lifeson'.  I did a quick A/B and the drums in particular sound way different, and not in a way that a simple remaster could account for. The snare is definitely eQ'd different, and the ride cymbal is much more prominent in the DVD version. I could be wrong of course, multi-band compression  can do weird things. I don't have the audio tracks separate from the video for ESL at the moment (like I did for ASOH) so I can't do an in-depth A/B at this time.

[Rush Didact]

On 7/4/2022 at 6:53 AM, DJLightray said:

 

I'm pretty sure it *was* remixed. The ESL liner in the Replay x3 does say "5.1 and stereo mix by Mike Fraser and Alex Lifeson'.  I did a quick A/B and the drums in particular sound way different, and not in a way that a simple remaster could account for. The snare is definitely eQ'd different, and the ride cymbal is much more prominent in the DVD version. I could be wrong of course, multi-band compression  can do weird things. I don't have the audio tracks separate from the video for ESL at the moment (like I did for ASOH) so I can't do an in-depth A/B at this time.

 

That could very well be.  I haven't watched any of the Replay DVDs since I bought them because they sound so awful, so I actually have no idea how ESL sounded aside from "really, really bad".