should trans people get their own sports league?

[bathory]

not trying to get political here.

[treeduck]

KISS Killers avatar! That's all that matters!

 

:haz:

[blueschica]

not trying to get political here.

 

It is kind of political, though, just because sports opportunities for trans persons are campaign talking points for many politicians. People on this forum have had some pretty informative and detailed discussions on gas prices and the covid spread, though, for example so hopefully all will go well.

Edited March 28, 2022 by blueschica

[Entre_Perpetuo]

My best friend is trans. We have never talked about this topic, but I wanna say she would say that trans people should be allowed to compete with the gender that they identify as. I'm absolutely not sure about that, she may disagree. I personally really don't think it's up to non-trans people to decide.

 

EDIT: yeah confirmation from her. There is absolutely no reason why trans people should not be allowed to play with their correct gender. They have consistently displayed the ability to compete at the same level as their cis counterparts. I'm gonna leave it at that. Happy discussing.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Entre_Perpetuo

[laughedatbytime]

not trying to get political here.

:lol:

[edhunter]

Yes

[Maverick]

Has anyone noticed how in these discussions it always seems to be the debate is about biological men (trans women) competing against biological women? Why is it that we have yet to hear about biological women (trans men) dominating biological men in swimming, track and field, weight lifting, wrestling, boxing, etc.? I understand that for sports like wrestling and boxing, it may be difficult to find a biological male in the same weight range to do the actual competing.

 

But I think my point is clear enough.

 

All you have to do is look at Will Thomas the male swimmer vs. Lia Thomas the female swimmer.

 

Will Thomas was ranked in the mid 500's in men's swimming in the NCAA. So even as a male swimmer, he wasn't that good.

 

Lia Thomas, however ranked near the top as a female swimmer, set records in competition against biological females that absolutely smashed existing records, and prevented other top women swimmers from competing by taking their spot on the team roster.

 

It's really easy for some people to say that well it's just one person doing this, and good for her! But what would happen if there was an entire women's swim team (or basketball, soccer, or softball) made up completely of trans women? How far will this go before the person saying, "Good for her!" decides that actually, "This is ridiculous."

 

LeBrona James could play one season in the WNBA and be the greatest women's player of all time. Forever.

[driventotheedge]

One of my cousin's is the Athletic Director for a large high school in Washington state. He has not had to deal with this, what I believe is a no-win situation yet, but he feels like it will happen b4 he retires. I don't envy him.

[Maverick]

One of my cousin's is the Athletic Director for a large high school in Washington state. He has not had to deal with this, what I believe is a no-win situation yet, but he feels like it will happen b4 he retires. I don't envy him.

 

This post made me think something: this is a type of no-win situation, definitely, because you are going to piss some group or another off. But there is definitely a right and wrong choice here. The problem is that the people with the biggest/loudest megaphone right now are in favor of the wrong choice. I don't envy your cousin, either.

[Maverick]

I was looking over the sports page of the Washington Post app this morning, and I had this thought.

 

What would happen if a NCAA women's basketball team had two trans women players on it: one a 7'2" center that weighs 280 lbs, and the other a 6'6" shooting guard that weighs 220 lbs? Let's say this women's team went undefeated and won the national title, and the two trans players combined for 110 points, 40 rebounds, and 15 blocked shots per game. Would we still say it's perfectly okay? Would we say that clearly the other teams need to recruit more trans players?

[IbanezJem]

Nobody has a solution that seems to make both sides happy, and I guess that`s because there isn`t one in any good compromise. If you are currently on the podium in the women`s events and someone comes in and pushes you off, you would be frustrated if this athlete had been training as a male for, say, ten years. That a cisgender female would be at a disadvantage is not disputed - inherent muscle gain and strength advantage would take a long time to diminish.

 

Watching the Women`s Cricket World Cup at the moment, the fast bowlers bowl at the speed I did, about 65+ mph; and I was playing at an incredibly low regional level. Male professionals can bowl at speeds of 100mph. Logically, a very large number of very competent sportsmen could have played at a higher level in female sports (but this is obviously an absurd hypothetical that anyone would consider a gender change for such a reason).

 

The IOC haven`t satisfactorily addressed the difficulty of what to do with Castor Semenya or intersex athletes. I have a great deal of sympathy for someone born with naturally high levels of testosterone who is forbidden from competition. As of now I have not heard a case of a man with naturally high levels of oestrogen competing, and anyone contesting their right to do so - this might be because there are very few sports in which this would be competitively advantageous.

[JohnRogers]

Yes.

[goose]

There is absolutely no reason why trans people should not be allowed to play with their correct gender.

Do you see how the term "correct gender" can have more than one interpretation?

[Entre_Perpetuo]

There is absolutely no reason why trans people should not be allowed to play with their correct gender.

Do you see how the term "correct gender" can have more than one interpretation?

 

I’ll clarify. The gender they identify as is their correct gender.

[HemiBeers]

Just another way to stigmatize trans people. The thought they they switched genders to get an 'unfair' advantage at sports is lunacy. Just like the lunatics telling them which bathroom to use. Toilets don't care so f***ing get over it.

[Maverick]

Just another way to stigmatize trans people. The thought they they switched genders to get an 'unfair' advantage at sports is lunacy. Just like the lunatics telling them which bathroom to use. Toilets don't care so f***ing get over it.

 

I'm not saying anyone switched genders to get an unfair advantage. But I am definitely saying that by switching genders, they are now competing against people who are a different sex.

 

See, in other discussions on this subject, we've had it drilled into our heads that gender does not equal sex. That is to say that a person can be born a male (sex) but as they develop and grow up, they may realize that their gender does not align with their sex. In this case the male may identify as a woman, and not a man. He may choose the feminine pronouns, dress as a woman, wear makeup, do hormone treatments, and get top and bottom surgeries to have the appearance of being a woman. Their gender was that of a woman, but their sex was still male.

 

The problem we have here with trans athletes is that physically matured males are entering into direct competition with physically mature females, and the male athletes are just bigger, stronger, and faster than the females.

 

Lia Thomas was ranked 554th in swimming when she was Will Thomas, and competing against other males, which is what she did for three years in college. Then in the fourth year he became she and became the top ranked female swimmer in the country.

 

How in the world your attitude is that people just need to f*cking get over it is a complete mystery to me. Are you going to tell that to the girl who comes in second place after losing the championship race to a biological male? Or to the girl who didn't make the team because a biological male got the slot instead?

 

I don't really think you've given this a lot of honest thought. It's just an easy and cheap way to virtue signal and show how progressive and open-minded you are.

[laughedatbytime]

https://nypost.com/2022/01/27/teammates-are-uneasy-changing-in-locker-room-with-trans-upenn-swimmer-lia-thomas/

 

A member of the University of Pennsylvania women’s swim team said some team members are uncomfortable changing in the locker room with transgender swimmer Lia Thomas, according to a teammate.

 

Thomas, 22, who spent the previous three years swimming with the men’s team before she began transitioning to a woman, has created an uneasy environment in the locker room, as she still retains her biologically male genitalia — which are sometimes exposed — and is attracted to women, one teammate told the Daily Mail in an interview.

 

At press time, the toilets couldn't be reached for comment.

[Principled Man]

There is absolutely no reason why trans people should not be allowed to play with their correct gender.

Do you see how the term "correct gender" can have more than one interpretation?

 

I’ll clarify. The gender they identify as is their correct gender.

 

And if they change their minds at some time in the future?

[Entre_Perpetuo]

There is absolutely no reason why trans people should not be allowed to play with their correct gender.

Do you see how the term "correct gender" can have more than one interpretation?

 

I’ll clarify. The gender they identify as is their correct gender.

 

And if they change their minds at some time in the future?

 

Doesn't bother me. As far as I'm concerned people can wake up and decide they need or want change at any moment, for any reason. I love my best friend no matter what.

[goose]

There is absolutely no reason why trans people should not be allowed to play with their correct gender.

Do you see how the term "correct gender" can have more than one interpretation?

 

I’ll clarify. The gender they identify as is their correct gender.

For competition? Even when such identification gives a person an inequitable biological advantage?

 

Not sure everyone agrees.

[78jazz]

Just another way to stigmatize trans people. The thought they they switched genders to get an 'unfair' advantage at sports is lunacy. Just like the lunatics telling them which bathroom to use. Toilets don't care so f***ing get over it.

 

This discussion isn't about toilets.

[Principled Man]

There is absolutely no reason why trans people should not be allowed to play with their correct gender.

Do you see how the term "correct gender" can have more than one interpretation?

 

I’ll clarify. The gender they identify as is their correct gender.

 

And if they change their minds at some time in the future?

 

Doesn't bother me. As far as I'm concerned people can wake up and decide they need or want change at any moment, for any reason. I love my best friend no matter what.

 

That’s great, but should athletic competitions be expected to accomodate people who change gender-identiies and then change back? Should schools and employers keep accomodating people who change gender-identities and then change back?

[Entre_Perpetuo]

There is absolutely no reason why trans people should not be allowed to play with their correct gender.

Do you see how the term "correct gender" can have more than one interpretation?

 

I’ll clarify. The gender they identify as is their correct gender.

 

And if they change their minds at some time in the future?

 

Doesn't bother me. As far as I'm concerned people can wake up and decide they need or want change at any moment, for any reason. I love my best friend no matter what.

 

That’s great, but should athletic competitions be expected to accomodate people who change gender-identiies and then change back? Should schools and employers keep accomodating people who change gender-identities and then change back?

 

Yes.

[bathory]

There is absolutely no reason why trans people should not be allowed to play with their correct gender.

Do you see how the term "correct gender" can have more than one interpretation?

 

I’ll clarify. The gender they identify as is their correct gender.

 

stay far away from SOCN if that is your belief

[bathory]

hell, the fact that you even referred to your friend as "her" would have got you a few jabs in SOCN.