Did any other drummers continue using electronic drum kits as viable musical instruments long after they were first introduced?

[Entre_Perpetuo]

I was watching some Rush videos with my dad last week, and I suddenly realized how strange it seems that Neil continued using the full electronic drum kit even after its novelty had worn off and even after the rise of grunge. Sure lots of drummers use trigger pads for particular sounds, but how many of them have a whole electronic kit they use in concerts anymore? Heck, how many drummers used a full electronic kit in concerts even when they were first introduced? It seems to me today the electronic drum kit isn't viewed so much as a viable musical instrument as it is a practice tool and something to play when you can't make a lot of noise, perhaps at best a home recording tool. And it's not like Neil used the electronic kit just on songs that were originally recorded on it. I was surprised (and a little distressed) when I saw Neil was using the full electric kit to play The Trees in one of the videos we watched. I imagine it was because the electric kit had all of his woodblock and chime triggers and it was just easier to hit them while sitting on the electric side of his drum circle, but it was still an odd effect to hear the rather raw heavy rock song anchored by electronic drums.

 

So are there any other drummers you can think of who have extensively made use of full electric kits in the studio and live?

[Alex’s Amazing Arpeggios]

[Rod in Toronto]

Good point ! ������

Hmm does either Mike Portnoy or maybe Mangini , even if only

occasionally still use Electronic drums ? ������

 

They don't.

[IbanezJem]

I think Alex Van Halen was still using some late in his playing, having started around 1984. Maybe his neck injury and other health issues were relieved a little by this.

[hammerofthor]

Not a full kit, but Danny Carey uses an array of electronic pads.

[grep]

The guy from Def Leppard. He pretty much needs them, given his injury.

[cygnify]

I was watching some Rush videos with my dad last week, and I suddenly realized how strange it seems that Neil continued using the full electronic drum kit even after its novelty had worn off and even after the rise of grunge. Sure lots of drummers use trigger pads for particular sounds, but how many of them have a whole electronic kit they use in concerts anymore? Heck, how many drummers used a full electronic kit in concerts even when they were first introduced? It seems to me today the electronic drum kit isn't viewed so much as a viable musical instrument as it is a practice tool and something to play when you can't make a lot of noise, perhaps at best a home recording tool. And it's not like Neil used the electronic kit just on songs that were originally recorded on it. I was surprised (and a little distressed) when I saw Neil was using the full electric kit to play The Trees in one of the videos we watched. I imagine it was because the electric kit had all of his woodblock and chime triggers and it was just easier to hit them while sitting on the electric side of his drum circle, but it was still an odd effect to hear the rather raw heavy rock song anchored by electronic drums.

 

So are there any other drummers you can think of who have extensively made use of full electric kits in the studio and live?

 

For live music, there are - though, not necessarily full electronic kits, especially in the Rock world. Drum n bass or EDM make extensive use of e-drum kits - almost universally. As noted above, Danny Carey (TOOL) also makes extensive use of e-drums in his kit. Also, a vast number of drummers use triggering and/or hybrid kits. An acoustic drum kit will always have that visual appeal - this is a reason that Roland has introduced their hybrid kits (look like acoustic kits, but the mesh heads / trigger / drum brain are the very same as an electric kit.) But for live sound (and indeed very often studio sound), in the professional touring setting, electronic drum sounds are fairly standard.

 

As a drummer, I would disagree with you that "electronic kits are not a viable musical instrument". During the pandemic, I took masterclass lessons (nearly every week over a 16 month period!) with Craig Blundell (Steven Wilson, Steve Hackett). Craig has done extensive work for Roland (kit and sound development) - he recorded a couple dozen albums over the pandemic. While he uses both electric and acoustic kits in his recording work - and would be very quick to point out that E-kits are just another tool in the toolbox. Just as for some situations a jazz kit, or latin kit might make more sense, E-kits and the absolute sound versatility make sense (see Drum and Bass, as noted above.) The advances in the instrument since the "Simmons E-kit" days (Like Neil's first kit or Alex Van Halen's) have been significant, in every way. Personally, I do play both - certainly for my live gigs, I use my acoustic kit. But in recent years, I have used my Electric kit more for recording - which I can now do at home and trigger some quality sounds (typically, not the native Roland sounds - more often sounds tailored from Logic.) So, most definitely a "viable instrument"

[Timbale]

One who comes to mind, likely for a reason other than their artistic viability is Zak Starkey on the last Who tour, where they played with an orchestra. He had a kit that looked like a big, acoustic double bass kit, but it was in fact all electronic pads. I got the sense, with an orchestra behind him and two 70+ year old members in front of him (all due respect) he did it for the sake of the stage volume. I saw that tour, and he was wailing away, Keith Moon style, and I kept thinking about how the stage is likely almost silent.

 

I always thought Peart started playing old, acoustic songs on the back kit almost to justify its existence as the 80's tunes started to fall out of their setlists. It feels like it was there in the last couple of tours before R40 just for his solo. In the aughts, many years before R40, I always was wishing he would drop the back kit, leave a few pads on the sides and put some acoustic percussion back up on the riser. The back kit, as a kit, didn't add a lot in my opinion after the initial creative spurt he had with it...and a song like Red Sector A could have easily been played on the front kit.

[Entre_Perpetuo]

I was watching some Rush videos with my dad last week, and I suddenly realized how strange it seems that Neil continued using the full electronic drum kit even after its novelty had worn off and even after the rise of grunge. Sure lots of drummers use trigger pads for particular sounds, but how many of them have a whole electronic kit they use in concerts anymore? Heck, how many drummers used a full electronic kit in concerts even when they were first introduced? It seems to me today the electronic drum kit isn't viewed so much as a viable musical instrument as it is a practice tool and something to play when you can't make a lot of noise, perhaps at best a home recording tool. And it's not like Neil used the electronic kit just on songs that were originally recorded on it. I was surprised (and a little distressed) when I saw Neil was using the full electric kit to play The Trees in one of the videos we watched. I imagine it was because the electric kit had all of his woodblock and chime triggers and it was just easier to hit them while sitting on the electric side of his drum circle, but it was still an odd effect to hear the rather raw heavy rock song anchored by electronic drums.

 

So are there any other drummers you can think of who have extensively made use of full electric kits in the studio and live?

 

For live music, there are - though, not necessarily full electronic kits, especially in the Rock world. Drum n bass or EDM make extensive use of e-drum kits - almost universally. As noted above, Danny Carey (TOOL) also makes extensive use of e-drums in his kit. Also, a vast number of drummers use triggering and/or hybrid kits. An acoustic drum kit will always have that visual appeal - this is a reason that Roland has introduced their hybrid kits (look like acoustic kits, but the mesh heads / trigger / drum brain are the very same as an electric kit.) But for live sound (and indeed very often studio sound), in the professional touring setting, electronic drum sounds are fairly standard.

 

As a drummer, I would disagree with you that "electronic kits are not a viable musical instrument". During the pandemic, I took masterclass lessons (nearly every week over a 16 month period!) with Craig Blundell (Steven Wilson, Steve Hackett). Craig has done extensive work for Roland (kit and sound development) - he recorded a couple dozen albums over the pandemic. While he uses both electric and acoustic kits in his recording work - and would be very quick to point out that E-kits are just another tool in the toolbox. Just as for some situations a jazz kit, or latin kit might make more sense, E-kits and the absolute sound versatility make sense (see Drum and Bass, as noted above.) The advances in the instrument since the "Simmons E-kit" days (Like Neil's first kit or Alex Van Halen's) have been significant, in every way. Personally, I do play both - certainly for my live gigs, I use my acoustic kit. But in recent years, I have used my Electric kit more for recording - which I can now do at home and trigger some quality sounds (typically, not the native Roland sounds - more often sounds tailored from Logic.) So, most definitely a "viable instrument"

 

I guess I've always seen the e-kit as something that has mostly been adopted by people who want to practice but don't have the luxury of using a live kit because it's too loud or cumbersome. But are there any other drummers who tour with a full electronic kit, not just a few trigger pads?

[Entre_Perpetuo]

One who comes to mind, likely for a reason other than their artistic viability is Zak Starkey on the last Who tour, where they played with an orchestra. He had a kit that looked like a big, acoustic double bass kit, but it was in fact all electronic pads. I got the sense, with an orchestra behind him and two 70+ year old members in front of him (all due respect) he did it for the sake of the stage volume. I saw that tour, and he was wailing away, Keith Moon style, and I kept thinking about how the stage is likely almost silent.

 

I always thought Peart started playing old, acoustic songs on the back kit almost to justify its existence as the 80's tunes started to fall out of their setlists. It feels like it was there in the last couple of tours before R40 just for his solo. In the aughts, many years before R40, I always was wishing he would drop the back kit, leave a few pads on the sides and put some acoustic percussion back up on the riser. The back kit, as a kit, didn't add a lot in my opinion after the initial creative spurt he had with it...and a song like Red Sector A could have easily been played on the front kit.

 

Wait really? I saw that tour too and I had no idea! Wow.

 

I think Neil left it in even on tours without much material designed for it just so he had what he felt was the largest arsenal of sounds he may wind up needing. It also became kind of iconic that he was completely surrounded by drums.

[Mr Freeze]

[Entre_Perpetuo]

[chemistry1973]

Zak Starkey currently plays a full e kit with The Who.

 

It sounds f***ing awful.

 

Lots of singer songwriter types are using drummers with e kits. They just look like acoustic kits now. I get that using one might make things simpler from a budget standpoint, or for ease of use with smaller gigs. But creating organic, interesting rock and roll? No way.

[chemistry1973]

https://m.facebook.com/346120672546/photos/for-this-tour-zak-has-arranged-an-all-electronic-drum-kit-it-looks-normal-as-its/10156573307132547/

[chemistry1973]

One who comes to mind, likely for a reason other than their artistic viability is Zak Starkey on the last Who tour, where they played with an orchestra. He had a kit that looked like a big, acoustic double bass kit, but it was in fact all electronic pads. I got the sense, with an orchestra behind him and two 70+ year old members in front of him (all due respect) he did it for the sake of the stage volume. I saw that tour, and he was wailing away, Keith Moon style, and I kept thinking about how the stage is likely almost silent.

 

I always thought Peart started playing old, acoustic songs on the back kit almost to justify its existence as the 80's tunes started to fall out of their setlists. It feels like it was there in the last couple of tours before R40 just for his solo. In the aughts, many years before R40, I always was wishing he would drop the back kit, leave a few pads on the sides and put some acoustic percussion back up on the riser. The back kit, as a kit, didn't add a lot in my opinion after the initial creative spurt he had with it...and a song like Red Sector A could have easily been played on the front kit.

 

Ah looks like you’ve already covered this!

[chemistry1973]

I think Alex Van Halen was still using some late in his playing, having started around 1984. Maybe his neck injury and other health issues were relieved a little by this.

 

They were actually exacerbated, with lots of elbow damage from the hard plastic of the Simmons pads.

[Timbale]

I always thought it was strange that Peart talked about resisting electronics, not being drawn to buttons and wires etc...and that he only got into it as a way to have an infinite number of sounds to access. But Neil added the back kit in '84, when those Simmons pads did little else than sound like themselves - that dated, cool-in-their-own-way sound we all know and avoid today. :). Don't know what he was on about with that line of logic...

 

Bill Bruford did go very very deep into the electronic thing for a time. I remember an interview with him in Modern Drummer where he said that he viewed the acoustic drumkit as essentially too subtle an instrument to make modern music with - that it was akin to a chamber instrument.

 

I would venture to say that he went interesting places with it - he had Simmons pads that, at the time, were very advanced, with 3 or 4 segments on each pad that could be mapped to different sounds, as well as velocity control that could add sounds depending on how hard you hit them. This allowed him to play multiple chords on each pad.

 

But I never found it enjoyable, musically speaking - much like the electronic section of Peart's solo, which to me was just listening to not-particularly-impressively-fast paradiddles played on a bunch of bongo, conga and timbale sounds. Big wup. ;)

 

Interestingly, Bill Bruford reneged on his earlier opinion and went back to playing acoustic drums. I respected his adventurous spirit in delving so deep into it...but those Earthworks records, and some of the fully electronic Yes performances he did, are unlistenable to me.

[Weatherman]

 

But I never found it enjoyable, musically speaking - much like the electronic section of Peart's solo, which to me was just listening to not-particularly-impressively-fast paradiddles played on a bunch of bongo, conga and timbale sounds. Big wup. ;)

 

Interesting because I've always enjoyed the electronic section of Peart's solos more than the acoustic section.

So have many other people whom I've shown his YouTube video to. They grow bored when the kit rotates and he starts rolling on the traditional snare.

[cygnify]

I was watching some Rush videos with my dad last week, and I suddenly realized how strange it seems that Neil continued using the full electronic drum kit even after its novelty had worn off and even after the rise of grunge. Sure lots of drummers use trigger pads for particular sounds, but how many of them have a whole electronic kit they use in concerts anymore? Heck, how many drummers used a full electronic kit in concerts even when they were first introduced? It seems to me today the electronic drum kit isn't viewed so much as a viable musical instrument as it is a practice tool and something to play when you can't make a lot of noise, perhaps at best a home recording tool. And it's not like Neil used the electronic kit just on songs that were originally recorded on it. I was surprised (and a little distressed) when I saw Neil was using the full electric kit to play The Trees in one of the videos we watched. I imagine it was because the electric kit had all of his woodblock and chime triggers and it was just easier to hit them while sitting on the electric side of his drum circle, but it was still an odd effect to hear the rather raw heavy rock song anchored by electronic drums.

 

So are there any other drummers you can think of who have extensively made use of full electric kits in the studio and live?

 

For live music, there are - though, not necessarily full electronic kits, especially in the Rock world. Drum n bass or EDM make extensive use of e-drum kits - almost universally. As noted above, Danny Carey (TOOL) also makes extensive use of e-drums in his kit. Also, a vast number of drummers use triggering and/or hybrid kits. An acoustic drum kit will always have that visual appeal - this is a reason that Roland has introduced their hybrid kits (look like acoustic kits, but the mesh heads / trigger / drum brain are the very same as an electric kit.) But for live sound (and indeed very often studio sound), in the professional touring setting, electronic drum sounds are fairly standard.

 

As a drummer, I would disagree with you that "electronic kits are not a viable musical instrument". During the pandemic, I took masterclass lessons (nearly every week over a 16 month period!) with Craig Blundell (Steven Wilson, Steve Hackett). Craig has done extensive work for Roland (kit and sound development) - he recorded a couple dozen albums over the pandemic. While he uses both electric and acoustic kits in his recording work - and would be very quick to point out that E-kits are just another tool in the toolbox. Just as for some situations a jazz kit, or latin kit might make more sense, E-kits and the absolute sound versatility make sense (see Drum and Bass, as noted above.) The advances in the instrument since the "Simmons E-kit" days (Like Neil's first kit or Alex Van Halen's) have been significant, in every way. Personally, I do play both - certainly for my live gigs, I use my acoustic kit. But in recent years, I have used my Electric kit more for recording - which I can now do at home and trigger some quality sounds (typically, not the native Roland sounds - more often sounds tailored from Logic.) So, most definitely a "viable instrument"

 

I guess I've always seen the e-kit as something that has mostly been adopted by people who want to practice but don't have the luxury of using a live kit because it's too loud or cumbersome. But are there any other drummers who tour with a full electronic kit, not just a few trigger pads?

 

Electronic drums certainly have those benefits, as they can be quieter and have a smaller footprint, but they are a unique instrument that can provide sonic possibilities that acoustic drums cannot. Think of it like a synthesizer vs. a piano.

 

As I mentioned, many drummers are actually using electronic triggers on an acoustic kit (you see an acoustic set on stage, but they are in fact using electronic triggers for the sounds) - the acoustic kit will always offer the natural response and visual appeal, but the lines are really getting blurred today. Roland has a whole line of popular hybrid kits:

 

https://www.roland.com/us/categories/drums_percussion/v-drums_acoustic_design/

 

and guides for live implementation of electronics in various genres:

 

https://www.roland.com/us/promos/hybrid_drums/

[Entre_Perpetuo]

I was watching some Rush videos with my dad last week, and I suddenly realized how strange it seems that Neil continued using the full electronic drum kit even after its novelty had worn off and even after the rise of grunge. Sure lots of drummers use trigger pads for particular sounds, but how many of them have a whole electronic kit they use in concerts anymore? Heck, how many drummers used a full electronic kit in concerts even when they were first introduced? It seems to me today the electronic drum kit isn't viewed so much as a viable musical instrument as it is a practice tool and something to play when you can't make a lot of noise, perhaps at best a home recording tool. And it's not like Neil used the electronic kit just on songs that were originally recorded on it. I was surprised (and a little distressed) when I saw Neil was using the full electric kit to play The Trees in one of the videos we watched. I imagine it was because the electric kit had all of his woodblock and chime triggers and it was just easier to hit them while sitting on the electric side of his drum circle, but it was still an odd effect to hear the rather raw heavy rock song anchored by electronic drums.

 

So are there any other drummers you can think of who have extensively made use of full electric kits in the studio and live?

 

For live music, there are - though, not necessarily full electronic kits, especially in the Rock world. Drum n bass or EDM make extensive use of e-drum kits - almost universally. As noted above, Danny Carey (TOOL) also makes extensive use of e-drums in his kit. Also, a vast number of drummers use triggering and/or hybrid kits. An acoustic drum kit will always have that visual appeal - this is a reason that Roland has introduced their hybrid kits (look like acoustic kits, but the mesh heads / trigger / drum brain are the very same as an electric kit.) But for live sound (and indeed very often studio sound), in the professional touring setting, electronic drum sounds are fairly standard.

 

As a drummer, I would disagree with you that "electronic kits are not a viable musical instrument". During the pandemic, I took masterclass lessons (nearly every week over a 16 month period!) with Craig Blundell (Steven Wilson, Steve Hackett). Craig has done extensive work for Roland (kit and sound development) - he recorded a couple dozen albums over the pandemic. While he uses both electric and acoustic kits in his recording work - and would be very quick to point out that E-kits are just another tool in the toolbox. Just as for some situations a jazz kit, or latin kit might make more sense, E-kits and the absolute sound versatility make sense (see Drum and Bass, as noted above.) The advances in the instrument since the "Simmons E-kit" days (Like Neil's first kit or Alex Van Halen's) have been significant, in every way. Personally, I do play both - certainly for my live gigs, I use my acoustic kit. But in recent years, I have used my Electric kit more for recording - which I can now do at home and trigger some quality sounds (typically, not the native Roland sounds - more often sounds tailored from Logic.) So, most definitely a "viable instrument"

 

I guess I've always seen the e-kit as something that has mostly been adopted by people who want to practice but don't have the luxury of using a live kit because it's too loud or cumbersome. But are there any other drummers who tour with a full electronic kit, not just a few trigger pads?

 

Electronic drums certainly have those benefits, as they can be quieter and have a smaller footprint, but they are a unique instrument that can provide sonic possibilities that acoustic drums cannot. Think of it like a synthesizer vs. a piano.

 

As I mentioned, many drummers are actually using electronic triggers on an acoustic kit (you see an acoustic set on stage, but they are in fact using electronic triggers for the sounds) - the acoustic kit will always offer the natural response and visual appeal, but the lines are really getting blurred today. Roland has a whole line of popular hybrid kits:

 

https://www.roland.c...coustic_design/

 

and guides for live implementation of electronics in various genres:

 

https://www.roland.c...s/hybrid_drums/

 

I know a lot of drummers use a variety of triggers. I'm just mainly interested in any other drummers who take a whole electronic kit on stage. Not a hybrid kit.

[cygnify]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_electronic_drum_performers

 

though this list is quite limited; if they counted those that are using electronic sounds / triggers from their acoustic drums, it would include a majority of touring drummers today.

 

One interesting, and unexpected, case - several years ago a regional death-metal band was using a rehearsal space next to my band's. I listened to them for a bit and talked with their drummer - he could play these incredibly fast double bass grooves, blast beats, etc. I asked him about it - it turns out, many death/speed metal drummers use a whole different technique to get that level of speed. Their kick technique is very light, barely letting the beater off the drum head - makes sense less motion, quicker roll (whereas, I'm hitting the kick fairly heavy to get a full Bonham effect!) The thing is, they can't get the needed volume, nor the sound, with that technique - they rely on electronic triggers to get the volume and clarity that is needed for those machine gun kick drum riffs.

[Timbale]

https://en.wikipedia...drum_performers

 

though this list is quite limited; if they counted those that are using electronic sounds / triggers from their acoustic drums, it would include a majority of touring drummers today.

 

One interesting, and unexpected, case - several years ago a regional death-metal band was using a rehearsal space next to my band's. I listened to them for a bit and talked with their drummer - he could play these incredibly fast double bass grooves, blast beats, etc. I asked him about it - it turns out, many death/speed metal drummers use a whole different technique to get that level of speed. Their kick technique is very light, barely letting the beater off the drum head - makes sense less motion, quicker roll (whereas, I'm hitting the kick fairly heavy to get a full Bonham effect!) The thing is, they can't get the needed volume, nor the sound, with that technique - they rely on electronic triggers to get the volume and clarity that is needed for those machine gun kick drum riffs.

 

That is very interesting!

[Weakly Criminal]

https://en.wikipedia...drum_performers

 

though this list is quite limited; if they counted those that are using electronic sounds / triggers from their acoustic drums, it would include a majority of touring drummers today.

 

One interesting, and unexpected, case - several years ago a regional death-metal band was using a rehearsal space next to my band's. I listened to them for a bit and talked with their drummer - he could play these incredibly fast double bass grooves, blast beats, etc. I asked him about it - it turns out, many death/speed metal drummers use a whole different technique to get that level of speed. Their kick technique is very light, barely letting the beater off the drum head - makes sense less motion, quicker roll (whereas, I'm hitting the kick fairly heavy to get a full Bonham effect!) The thing is, they can't get the needed volume, nor the sound, with that technique - they rely on electronic triggers to get the volume and clarity that is needed for those machine gun kick drum riffs.

 

That is very interesting!

 

And a bit depressing. I could never get the feel of an electronic pad, no action. :codger:

[YYZ Working Man]

2005 Sold my Pearl sessions acoustics bought Roland td6 upgrade td 9 upgrade to td 15 upgrade to TD 30 chromey -(great kit) sold for a TD 15 and a 11 plus cash (studio and and home kits for practice- -no packing reqd)sold both for alesis strikepro SE (-great kit) - sold these over cost for Roland TD 17 kvx plus cash expanded the kit with Octopad and dove into the world of Midi Addictive Drums 2021 ( should have tried this long ago )

2005- 2021 electronic drums awesome results-jamming at anytime never waking up a neighbour -combinations endless

[RUSHHEAD666]

Zak Starkey currently plays a full e kit with The Who.

 

It sounds f***ing awful.

 

Lots of singer songwriter types are using drummers with e kits. They just look like acoustic kits now. I get that using one might make things simpler from a budget standpoint, or for ease of use with smaller gigs. But creating organic, interesting rock and roll? No way.

 

Yes 73! The e kit is complete SHIT.