Subdivisions synth choir effect

[LeChuck]

I always assumed that the sound on Witch Hunt is an actual toy piano.

I can get a reasonable approximation of this on my OB-X synth, so I always guessed that's what it was. But it does almost sound like something else with how distinct and percussive it is. Watching some P/G footage, he appears to turn to his PPG Wave to make this sound when playing it live on that tour (although his OB-Xa is tied up with playing the choir patch). The sound is also a lot more drawn out and synthy compared to the original recording.

[dream & vapour]

I always assumed that the sound on Witch Hunt is an actual toy piano.

I can get a reasonable approximation of this on my OB-X synth, so I always guessed that's what it was. But it does almost sound like something else with how distinct and percussive it is. Watching some P/G footage, he appears to turn to his PPG Wave to make this sound when playing it live on that tour (although his OB-Xa is tied up with playing the choir patch). The sound is also a lot more drawn out and synthy compared to the original recording.

 

Yes, on the OB-X. You aim for a celesta patch, which takes on a music box/toy piano tonality in higher octaves. Plink around, then drag that index finger up and down the white keys.

 

Perhaps a Synth/Synth Settings appendix would be a champion idea for the memoir. You don't suppose the editor would dismissively chortle at the idea, do you?

[Timbale]

I always assumed that the sound on Witch Hunt is an actual toy piano.

I can get a reasonable approximation of this on my OB-X synth, so I always guessed that's what it was. But it does almost sound like something else with how distinct and percussive it is. Watching some P/G footage, he appears to turn to his PPG Wave to make this sound when playing it live on that tour (although his OB-Xa is tied up with playing the choir patch). The sound is also a lot more drawn out and synthy compared to the original recording.

 

Yes, on the OB-X. You aim for a celesta patch, which takes on a music box/toy piano tonality in higher octaves. Plink around, then drag that index finger up and down the white keys.

 

Perhaps a Synth/Synth Settings appendix would be a champion idea for the memoir. You don't suppose the editor would dismissively chortle at the idea, do you?

 

Ooooo....it would be great if Geddy had a chapter called Synthworld in the memoir! I'd love to hear him talk more about that stuff and not just give the standard "I just got tired of playing triads and not playing bass" thing he's been saying for the last 10+ years.

[Rush Cocky]

Mellotron?

 

Geddy stated in the making of Snakes & Arrows video regarding the track "Good News First" that this was the first use of the mellotron in a rush song since "Tears".

 

So it couldn't have been that.

Edited September 23, 2021 by Rush Cocky

[Vectorman]

I always assumed that the sound on Witch Hunt is an actual toy piano.

I can get a reasonable approximation of this on my OB-X synth, so I always guessed that's what it was. But it does almost sound like something else with how distinct and percussive it is. Watching some P/G footage, he appears to turn to his PPG Wave to make this sound when playing it live on that tour (although his OB-Xa is tied up with playing the choir patch). The sound is also a lot more drawn out and synthy compared to the original recording.

 

Yes, on the OB-X. You aim for a celesta patch, which takes on a music box/toy piano tonality in higher octaves. Plink around, then drag that index finger up and down the white keys.

 

Perhaps a Synth/Synth Settings appendix would be a champion idea for the memoir. You don't suppose the editor would dismissively chortle at the idea, do you?

 

Ooooo....it would be great if Geddy had a chapter called Synthworld in the memoir! I'd love to hear him talk more about that stuff and not just give the standard "I just got tired of playing triads and not playing bass" thing he's been saying for the last 10+ years.

 

It would be nice to see something like that, definitely. Though I suspect that, like Terry Brown, there are probably a lot of details he just doesn't recall by now, especially since synths apparently haven't been a major source of interest for him for the last three decades. Not that he completely abandoned using them and stopped following any tech developments - I did see him on the Access Virus user list, so I presume he probably picked one up when they were relatively new and hot and maybe used it on MFH. But obviously you don't commit all the details to memory the same way you do with something that is a real passion.

 

It occurred to me that if I was asked about the details of what I used on this or that thing from like 1993 when I was recording stuff for my first attempt at an album...I'd probably be almost as clueless. Which sound from the Samplecell II library (there's a blast from the past) or the Kurzweil or whatever did I use on that chordal part? Uhm...dunno...that was more than half a lifetime ago...couldn't tell you if the fate of the world rested on it. And of course Rush's synth heyday dates back even further than that.

[dream & vapour]

Though I suspect that, like Terry Brown, there are probably a lot of details he just doesn't recall by now, especially since synths apparently haven't been a major source of interest for him for the last three decades.

 

It isn't a matter of recollection. Synth settings are logged, so that once you're taking the show on the road (and years down the road), there isn't a dependence upon recollection. One might spend hours and hours tweaking knobs and settings until you attain that a-ha! moment. "That's it! This is the sound I seek." Then you write down all the settings. (And, if your dealing only with manual sliders knobs, you can snap photos.)

 

Remember, we're taking about Geddy Lee--obsessive individual. Our guys always want to present the live audience with a performance as near to the recorded version as possible.

 

This aspect of Geddy's musical life seems a huge, soft pitch waiting for a good swing. He's fielded endless questions regarding his bass playing and equipment, but not a lot of the gearhead variety delving into his synth work. Such detailed minutiae could nest wonderfully into a memoir appendix. (Yeah, not gonna happen.) Or, a published, downloadable file. Yeah!

[chemistry1973]

I wonder about a bunch of the synth/effect sounds, too. It frustrates me that Geddy is now so into the history of bass and has distanced himself from the synth era of his playing, because I find his early rigs and choices very interesting. Once he got into full MIDI with the newest keyboard just used to trigger samples, it's pretty boring...but that stuff with his Taurus pedals being used to trigger the OB-X is so cool...but he seems to have no nostalgia for it at all. It's a shame.

I agree completely!

 

This is the kind of thing that makes me wish I was an interviewer for a paper or website .. so I would have some shot at getting to ask him all these questions. I guess I consider it part of the 'historical record' so to speak. Feels like a shame to leave things unanswered, especially when the people that could answer them are still around. He has certainly been asked a thousand times what basses he played on what songs, what strings he uses, etc.

 

I think it would be awesome to have an interview slot and ask him about his synth usage and sound effects. Maybe it's weird enough that he would actually agree to it too? Here are some of mine, feel free to reply with more:

- Intro sound to 'Distant Early Warning' (Synth effect with heavy modulation? Or stock tape recording of an exploding horsefly?)

- Choir sound on 'Subdivisions' (mystery effect, not possible directly with his synths at the time)

- Choir sound on 'Analog Kid' (which is different than the above - played live on the OB-Xa - I can get a very close approximation on my OB-X)

- Laser blasts in the Cygnus X-1 (Pt 1) intro (I always figured this was noodling around on the Minimoog with tape echo)

- 'Afterimage' vocal sound effect he mentions in the Keyboard 1984 interview (I can never hear what he is talking about, no matter how hard I listen for this)

- That little fill he does during the "1001001" bit in 'The Body Electric' (I'm guessing from his PPG Wave)

- What is layered on the chords at the very end of 'Between the Wheels'? (Sounds like a piano, or maybe just a percussive patch from the PPG Wave)

- That chimey sound on 'Witch Hunt' ("They say there is strangeness, too dangerous ..")

- Vocal effect on the middle part of Jacob's Ladder (I meant to ask him this at the book signing but got star struck and it was over before I could blink - doh)

- What synths are doing what on 'Losing It' (the synth bass and pads on this song are great but somehow sound different than other tracks)

- How did he come up with some of those sounds on the PPG Wave for P/G (e.g. Distant Early Warning and Afterimage - kind of an organ-like sound)

- What synth/effect is that in the background of 'New World Man' ("Learning to match the beat of the old-world man ..")

- ...

 

I always assumed that the sound on Witch Hunt is an actual toy piano.

 

I thought those were played on a bell tree by NP.

[dream & vapour]

 

 

I always assumed that the sound on Witch Hunt is an actual toy piano.

 

I thought those were played on a bell tree by NP.

 

The opening chime tones are a glockenspiel. In fact, when played live in later years, Neil would emulate the opening chimes using a glockenspiel sample on his MalletKat unit. However, on the album version, at about the 17 second mark, a horse of a different color rides onto the scene. This could be a chromatic bell tree. But it has an almost detuned effect to it, so I have assumed it was the OB-X using a similar sounding patch. I may be wrong. If so, I shall have to don the horsehair shirt for a prescribed period.

[LeChuck]

It isn't a matter of recollection. Synth settings are logged, so that once you're taking the show on the road (and years down the road), there isn't a dependence upon recollection. One might spend hours and hours tweaking knobs and settings until you attain that a-ha! moment. "That's it! This is the sound I seek." Then you write down all the settings. (And, if your dealing only with manual sliders knobs, you can snap photos.)

 

Remember, we're taking about Geddy Lee--obsessive individual. Our guys always want to present the live audience with a performance as near to the recorded version as possible.

This is actually something I wonder all the time and would love to ask. Once they come up with a synth patch for a sound they like, how do they go about archiving it and recreating it later?

 

Like you said, I would expect for the old analog synths they would write down all the patch settings somewhere and keep it in a vault (later digital stuff could exported to floppy/computers). But I wonder in reality if they take it that far. Maybe just knowing what synth made the sound, they just shoot for 'close enough' later if needed. Seems hard to believe though, especially since some of the digital stuff (like PPG Wave programs) can be so tough to make again from scratch.

 

I'm obviously a big nerd about getting the historical record down for synthy stuff, I'd love to know more details on this process. Maybe we should start a petition to get a synth chapter in his memoir? ;)

 

PS - One thing this reminds me of is when I was emailing the guy who played the synths on the Twin Peaks TV show soundtrack. I was surprised that he didn't still have the original Emulator II file for the guitar sample he used to make that great bass guitar sound in the intro (he only had it in a newer format, with the pitch shift and tremolo already applied). I get that he probably never uses his Emulator II anymore. But I would still think once you made a hit with something like that, you would immediately back it up in multiple places and keep it safe forever.

Edited September 24, 2021 by LeChuck

[LeChuck]

I always assumed that the sound on Witch Hunt is an actual toy piano.

 

I thought those were played on a bell tree by NP.

 

The opening chime tones are a glockenspiel. In fact, when played live in later years, Neil would emulate the opening chimes using a glockenspiel sample on his MalletKat unit. However, on the album version, at about the 17 second mark, a horse of a different color rides onto the scene. This could be a chromatic bell tree. But it has an almost detuned effect to it, so I have assumed it was the OB-X using a similar sounding patch. I may be wrong. If so, I shall have to don the horsehair shirt for a prescribed period.

It sounds like you all are talking about the intro. I'm actually talking about the little shimmery stab that happens right after the line I mentioned ("They say there is strangeness, too dangerous .."). I tried to mimic this on my OB-X and got fairly close, so I always assumed it was from that. When I get a chance I'll fire it up and try to match this sound again. I personally never even considered those intro noises to be anything but real percussion.

Edited September 24, 2021 by LeChuck

[Vectorman]

This is actually something I wonder all the time and would love to ask. Once they come up with a synth patch for a sound they like, how do they go about archiving it and recreating it later?

 

Like you said, I would expect for the old analog synths they would write down all the patch settings somewhere and keep it in a vault (later digital stuff could exported to floppy/computers). But I wonder in reality if they take it that far. Maybe just knowing what synth made the sound, they just shoot for 'close enough' later if needed. Seems hard to believe though, especially since some of the digital stuff (like PPG Wave programs) can be so tough to make again from scratch.

 

I'm obviously a big nerd about getting the historical record down for synthy stuff, I'd love to know more details on this process. Maybe we should start a petition to get a synth chapter in his memoir? ;)

 

PS - One thing this reminds me of is when I was emailing the guy who played the synths on the Twin Peaks TV show soundtrack. I was surprised that he didn't still have the original Emulator II file for the guitar sample he used to make that great bass guitar sound in the intro (he only had it in a newer format, with the pitch shift and tremolo already applied). I get that he probably never uses his Emulator II anymore. But I would still think once you made a hit with something like that, you would immediately back it up in multiple places and keep it safe forever.

 

I'm sure some things were written down the old fashioned way in the early days. Later on though, with instruments that could save patches to cassette and then diskette or memory cards/cartridges or even computer-based editors, I'd expect the archiving was digital.

 

A lot of times, we didn't actually get exact recreations of studio sounds live. For the intro chords on "The Big Money", for example, on the PoW and HYF tours, we didn't get that big, layered sound...Geddy was just playing a single PPG synth brass patch. Several sounds were played on completely different synths where you wouldn't even be able to transfer patch settings because the newer synths had different architectures. Like on the HYF tour, where he played the "Tom Sawyer" lead on a square wave unison mode preset from the Prophet VS (that was...different!), or played the "Subdivisions" poly parts on the PPG and the leads on the Roland D-50. Or the "Red Sector A" arpeggiator bass played on a Prophet VS preset on the HYF tour. "Red Sector A" went through a lot of changes regarding the sounds used over different tours. Seems like there was a fair bit of just looking for the closest approximation on whatever new instruments had been incorporated into the setup.

 

And then, of course, from the Presto tour onwards, we hit that stage where, for some parts, they just started sampling synth bits from the original masters and triggering samples live. That's when the "Big Money" chords started sounding like the album and various things from the "Camera Eye" OB-X parts to the main chords from "Between the Wheels" were just triggered samples. If you watch him play on vids from the last several tours, there's a lot of just pressing one key and getting a chord or an entire phrase going on.

[Weatherman]

It isn't a matter of recollection. Synth settings are logged, so that once you're taking the show on the road (and years down the road), there isn't a dependence upon recollection. One might spend hours and hours tweaking knobs and settings until you attain that a-ha! moment. "That's it! This is the sound I seek." Then you write down all the settings. (And, if your dealing only with manual sliders knobs, you can snap photos.)

 

Remember, we're taking about Geddy Lee--obsessive individual. Our guys always want to present the live audience with a performance as near to the recorded version as possible.

This is actually something I wonder all the time and would love to ask. Once they come up with a synth patch for a sound they like, how do they go about archiving it and recreating it later?

 

Like you said, I would expect for the old analog synths they would write down all the patch settings somewhere and keep it in a vault (later digital stuff could exported to floppy/computers). But I wonder in reality if they take it that far. Maybe just knowing what synth made the sound, they just shoot for 'close enough' later if needed. Seems hard to believe though, especially since some of the digital stuff (like PPG Wave programs) can be so tough to make again from scratch.

 

I'm obviously a big nerd about getting the historical record down for synthy stuff, I'd love to know more details on this process. Maybe we should start a petition to get a synth chapter in his memoir? ;)

 

PS - One thing this reminds me of is when I was emailing the guy who played the synths on the Twin Peaks TV show soundtrack. I was surprised that he didn't still have the original Emulator II file for the guitar sample he used to make that great bass guitar sound in the intro (he only had it in a newer format, with the pitch shift and tremolo already applied). I get that he probably never uses his Emulator II anymore. But I would still think once you made a hit with something like that, you would immediately back it up in multiple places and keep it safe forever.

 

I know that guy Jon Carin found himself becoming a synth archivist for the members of Pink Floyd and The Who. He stores all their old sounds and performs on stage with the groups.

It's actually a genius way to continue getting work at that level. "Hire me for the next tour, or you'll never hear the beginning of Baba O Riley again."

Edited September 24, 2021 by Weatherman