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A Show of Hands


Saint NIck
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The other day I started a topic of Hold Your Fire; mentioning that I think Tai Shan is a beautiful song. Albeit very unpopular with many, many fans, and from what I've read even Geddy and Alex don't like it. So I guess when the time came for the Hold Your Fire tour and they put a setlist together, this song about 'China' didn't stand a chance. I've been in a big-time HYF groove lately, and as I listen to Lock & Key, it's not only so cool it made the setlist, it also made it onto the laserdisc; but why not the VHS copy, which I actually still have. I may be beating a dead horse, but do you think one day we'll see the whole show on a dvd and/or blu-ray.!?
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I don't see why Tai Shan is hated so much... Also, High Water gets nailed too, but I think that's a great song and this is coming from a guy who rates Hemispheres as the # 1 Rush album.
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I give a lot of credit to the band for Tai Shan .. Whether or not is missed the mark is up to the listener, but the fact that they did something unexpected and very different than what they were known for - I like that, and can appreciate the song even more ...

 

A while back I started a thread about missteps, failures and risks in an artist's career - it could be any artist - but I think that there is sincerity in a lot of what could be considered failures -- when an artist goes out on the proverbial limb and does something unexpected or out of their comfort zone, it can be taken as them wanting to show a side of themselves and their own take on whatever they are writing about -- it's not safe, it's not what everyone else is doing, but it is a risk ...

 

I like that - whether or not it is commercially successful or successful according to the fanbase or critics, that really doesn;t matter to me .. I can see how Geddy and Alex don;t like Tai Shan, but they should at least be proud of the fact that they did it and took that risk ..

Edited by Lucas
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I think they could have dropped High Water and Tai Shan, made HYF an 8 song album like PoW and it would have made it a better record. The format change from vinyl to cd made most artists add more material to albums - but often to the detriment of the listening experience. HYF works better imo, as a 40 minute record

 

Here's an improved HYF

 

Side 1

Force 10

Time Stand Still

Open Secrets

Second Nature

 

Side 2

Lock and Key

Turn the Page

Prime Mover

Mission

 

Addition by subtraction - try it you'll like it

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I really love ASOH and I played it to death when it came out but I did feel it was all getting a bit poppy ,hence my dislike for Lock and Key,not to mention the fashions and hairdos.Being a musician I was also intrigued by how all this big sound was made ,myself coming from the old school of thought that backing tapes were no go.As for Tai Shan being included in the live set I don’t think it would have gone down to well.It could have been a Yes song in the vein of Wonderous Stories and would have worked well in their live set but not Rush.
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I think they could have dropped High Water and Tai Shan, made HYF an 8 song album like PoW and it would have made it a better record. The format change from vinyl to cd made most artists add more material to albums - but often to the detriment of the listening experience. HYF works better imo, as a 40 minute record

 

Here's an improved HYF

 

Side 1

Force 10

Time Stand Still

Open Secrets

Second Nature

 

Side 2

Lock and Key

Turn the Page

Mission

High Water

 

Addition by subtraction - try it you'll like it

 

Fixed it for ya

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The other day I started a topic of Hold Your Fire; mentioning that I think Tai Shan is a beautiful song. Albeit very unpopular with many, many fans, and from what I've read even Geddy and Alex don't like it. So I guess when the time came for the Hold Your Fire tour and they put a setlist together, this song about 'China' didn't stand a chance. I've been in a big-time HYF groove lately, and as I listen to Lock & Key, it's not only so cool it made the setlist, it also made it onto the laserdisc; but why not the VHS copy, which I actually still have. I may be beating a dead horse, but do you think one day we'll see the whole show on a dvd and/or blu-ray.!?

 

Isn't Lock and Key on one of the bonus R40 discs?

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I think they could have dropped High Water and Tai Shan, made HYF an 8 song album like PoW and it would have made it a better record. The format change from vinyl to cd made most artists add more material to albums - but often to the detriment of the listening experience. HYF works better imo, as a 40 minute record

 

Here's an improved HYF

 

Side 1

Force 10

Time Stand Still

Open Secrets

Second Nature

 

Side 2

Lock and Key

Turn the Page

Prime Mover

Mission

 

Addition by subtraction - try it you'll like it

 

Using that math method, (for me) Snakes & Arrows would’ve been an EP consisting of the instrumentals & The Way the Wind Blows.

 

Bones would’ve looked like this:

 

1. Dreamline

2. Bravado

3. Roll the Bones (edited without rap)

4. Where’s My Thing?

5. Heresy

6. Ghost of a Chance

 

Still, I wouldn’t have had it this way as all of the other songs (which I don’t really like) were necessary in their overall development. Without them we likely wouldn’t have had some of the later gems that we did.

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I think they could have dropped High Water and Tai Shan, made HYF an 8 song album like PoW and it would have made it a better record. The format change from vinyl to cd made most artists add more material to albums - but often to the detriment of the listening experience. HYF works better imo, as a 40 minute record

 

Here's an improved HYF

 

Side 1

Force 10

Time Stand Still

Open Secrets

Second Nature

 

Side 2

Lock and Key

Turn the Page

Prime Mover

Mission

 

Addition by subtraction - try it you'll like it

 

Using that math method, (for me) Snakes & Arrows would’ve been an EP consisting of the instrumentals & The Way the Wind Blows.

 

Bones would’ve looked like this:

 

1. Dreamline

2. Bravado

3. Roll the Bones (edited without rap)

4. Where’s My Thing?

5. Heresy

6. Ghost of a Chance

 

Still, I wouldn’t have had it this way as all of the other songs (which I don’t really like) were necessary in their overall development. Without them we likely wouldn’t have had some of the later gems that we did.

 

 

If we use the 8 track LP template for post-PoW albums mine would look like this:

 

Hold Your Fire:

 

Force Ten

Time Stand Still

Open Secrets

Lock and Key

 

Turn the Page

Mission

Second Nature

Prime Mover

 

Presto:

 

Show Don't Tell

Chain Lightning

The Pass

Scars

 

Superconductor

War Paint

Presto

Available Light

 

Roll the Bones:

 

Dreamline

Bravado

Roll the Bones (sans the rap)

Where's My Thing?

 

The Big Wheel

Face Up

Ghost of a Chance

Neurotica

 

Counterparts:

 

Animate

Between Sun and Moon

Stick it Out

Cut to the Chase

 

Cold Fire

Double Agent

Leave That Thing Alone

Everyday Glory

 

Test for Echo:

 

Test for Echo

Driven

Half the World

Virtuality

 

Limbo

Time and Motion

Resist

Carve Away the Stone

 

Vapor Trails:

 

One Little Victory

Ceiling Unlimited

How It Is

Vapor Trail

 

Secret Touch

Earthshine

Nocturne

Sweet Miracle

 

Snakes and Arrows:

 

Far Cry

Workin' Them Angels

The Way the Wind Blows

Spindrift

 

The Main Monkey Business

The Larger Bowl

Hope

We Hold On

 

Clockwork Angels:

 

I really don't see how this could be reduced to a single LP without compromising the storyline, so it can be a double album.

 

 

 

 

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I think they could have dropped High Water and Tai Shan, made HYF an 8 song album like PoW and it would have made it a better record. The format change from vinyl to cd made most artists add more material to albums - but often to the detriment of the listening experience. HYF works better imo, as a 40 minute record

 

Here's an improved HYF

 

Side 1

Force 10

Time Stand Still

Open Secrets

Second Nature

 

Side 2

Lock and Key

Turn the Page

Prime Mover

Mission

 

Addition by subtraction - try it you'll like it

 

Using that math method, (for me) Snakes & Arrows would’ve been an EP consisting of the instrumentals & The Way the Wind Blows.

 

Bones would’ve looked like this:

 

1. Dreamline

2. Bravado

3. Roll the Bones (edited without rap)

4. Where’s My Thing?

5. Heresy

6. Ghost of a Chance

 

Still, I wouldn’t have had it this way as all of the other songs (which I don’t really like) were necessary in their overall development. Without them we likely wouldn’t have had some of the later gems that we did.

 

Clockwork Angels:

 

I really don't see how this could be reduced to a single LP without compromising the storyline, so it can be a double album.

 

Compromise the storyline then! For as great as Headlong Flight, The Anarchist, and Clockwork Angels are, some of those other songs just have to go! :blaze:

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I think they could have dropped High Water and Tai Shan, made HYF an 8 song album like PoW and it would have made it a better record. The format change from vinyl to cd made most artists add more material to albums - but often to the detriment of the listening experience. HYF works better imo, as a 40 minute record

 

Here's an improved HYF

 

Side 1

Force 10

Time Stand Still

Open Secrets

Second Nature

 

Side 2

Lock and Key

Turn the Page

Prime Mover

Mission

 

Addition by subtraction - try it you'll like it

 

Using that math method, (for me) Snakes & Arrows would’ve been an EP consisting of the instrumentals & The Way the Wind Blows.

 

Bones would’ve looked like this:

 

1. Dreamline

2. Bravado

3. Roll the Bones (edited without rap)

4. Where’s My Thing?

5. Heresy

6. Ghost of a Chance

 

Still, I wouldn’t have had it this way as all of the other songs (which I don’t really like) were necessary in their overall development. Without them we likely wouldn’t have had some of the later gems that we did.

 

Clockwork Angels:

 

I really don't see how this could be reduced to a single LP without compromising the storyline, so it can be a double album.

 

Compromise the storyline then! For as great as Headlong Flight, The Anarchist, and Clockwork Angels are, some of those other songs just have to go! :blaze:

 

I can't do it!... I really only dislike Wish Them Well and Halo Effect. Someone else will have to do it.

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I think they could have dropped High Water and Tai Shan, made HYF an 8 song album like PoW and it would have made it a better record. The format change from vinyl to cd made most artists add more material to albums - but often to the detriment of the listening experience. HYF works better imo, as a 40 minute record

 

Here's an improved HYF

 

Side 1

Force 10

Time Stand Still

Open Secrets

Second Nature

 

Side 2

Lock and Key

Turn the Page

Prime Mover

Mission

 

Addition by subtraction - try it you'll like it

 

Using that math method, (for me) Snakes & Arrows would’ve been an EP consisting of the instrumentals & The Way the Wind Blows.

 

Bones would’ve looked like this:

 

1. Dreamline

2. Bravado

3. Roll the Bones (edited without rap)

4. Where’s My Thing?

5. Heresy

6. Ghost of a Chance

 

Still, I wouldn’t have had it this way as all of the other songs (which I don’t really like) were necessary in their overall development. Without them we likely wouldn’t have had some of the later gems that we did.

 

Clockwork Angels:

 

I really don't see how this could be reduced to a single LP without compromising the storyline, so it can be a double album.

 

Compromise the storyline then! For as great as Headlong Flight, The Anarchist, and Clockwork Angels are, some of those other songs just have to go! :blaze:

 

I can't do it!... I really only dislike Wish Them Well and Halo Effect. Someone else will have to do it.

 

I’ll do it then! And those two would be first on my list! After that it’d be BU2B2. I don’t need those less than 2 minutes of filler and storyline. From there I can do away with 7 Cities of Gold and The Wreckers. That’d leave me with 7 satisfying tracks [3 of which are great (the ones I already mentioned)].

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I think they could have dropped High Water and Tai Shan, made HYF an 8 song album like PoW and it would have made it a better record. The format change from vinyl to cd made most artists add more material to albums - but often to the detriment of the listening experience. HYF works better imo, as a 40 minute record

 

Here's an improved HYF

 

Side 1

Force 10

Time Stand Still

Open Secrets

Second Nature

 

Side 2

Lock and Key

Turn the Page

Prime Mover

Mission

 

Addition by subtraction - try it you'll like it

 

Using that math method, (for me) Snakes & Arrows would’ve been an EP consisting of the instrumentals & The Way the Wind Blows.

 

Bones would’ve looked like this:

 

1. Dreamline

2. Bravado

3. Roll the Bones (edited without rap)

4. Where’s My Thing?

5. Heresy

6. Ghost of a Chance

 

Still, I wouldn’t have had it this way as all of the other songs (which I don’t really like) were necessary in their overall development. Without them we likely wouldn’t have had some of the later gems that we did.

 

Clockwork Angels:

 

I really don't see how this could be reduced to a single LP without compromising the storyline, so it can be a double album.

 

Compromise the storyline then! For as great as Headlong Flight, The Anarchist, and Clockwork Angels are, some of those other songs just have to go! :blaze:

 

I can't do it!... I really only dislike Wish Them Well and Halo Effect. Someone else will have to do it.

 

I’ll do it then! And those two would be first on my list! After that it’d be BU2B2. I don’t need those less than 2 minutes of filler and storyline. From there I can do away with 7 Cities of Gold and The Wreckers. That’d leave me with 7 satisfying tracks [3 of which are great (the ones I already mentioned)].

 

I would hate to see 7 Cities go but I think I could live with that version of the album.

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I think they could have dropped High Water and Tai Shan, made HYF an 8 song album like PoW and it would have made it a better record. The format change from vinyl to cd made most artists add more material to albums - but often to the detriment of the listening experience. HYF works better imo, as a 40 minute record

 

Here's an improved HYF

 

Side 1

Force 10

Time Stand Still

Open Secrets

Second Nature

 

Side 2

Lock and Key

Turn the Page

Prime Mover

Mission

 

Addition by subtraction - try it you'll like it

 

Using that math method, (for me) Snakes & Arrows would’ve been an EP consisting of the instrumentals & The Way the Wind Blows.

 

Bones would’ve looked like this:

 

1. Dreamline

2. Bravado

3. Roll the Bones (edited without rap)

4. Where’s My Thing?

5. Heresy

6. Ghost of a Chance

 

Still, I wouldn’t have had it this way as all of the other songs (which I don’t really like) were necessary in their overall development. Without them we likely wouldn’t have had some of the later gems that we did.

 

Clockwork Angels:

 

I really don't see how this could be reduced to a single LP without compromising the storyline, so it can be a double album.

 

Compromise the storyline then! For as great as Headlong Flight, The Anarchist, and Clockwork Angels are, some of those other songs just have to go! :blaze:

 

I can't do it!... I really only dislike Wish Them Well and Halo Effect. Someone else will have to do it.

 

I’ll do it then! And those two would be first on my list! After that it’d be BU2B2. I don’t need those less than 2 minutes of filler and storyline. From there I can do away with 7 Cities of Gold and The Wreckers. That’d leave me with 7 satisfying tracks [3 of which are great (the ones I already mentioned)].

 

I would hate to see 7 Cities go but I think I could live with that version of the album.

 

Do you mean my version of the album here? :

 

1. Caravan

2. BU2B

3. Clockwork Angels

4. The Anarchist

5. Carnies

6. Headlong Flight

7. The Garden

 

I’d change the order and actually I can do without The Garden but I’m in a good mood and feeling generous today :blaze:

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I think they could have dropped High Water and Tai Shan, made HYF an 8 song album like PoW and it would have made it a better record. The format change from vinyl to cd made most artists add more material to albums - but often to the detriment of the listening experience. HYF works better imo, as a 40 minute record

 

Here's an improved HYF

 

Side 1

Force 10

Time Stand Still

Open Secrets

Second Nature

 

Side 2

Lock and Key

Turn the Page

Prime Mover

Mission

 

Addition by subtraction - try it you'll like it

You're right, they could have released the other 2 songs as B sides.
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I think they could have dropped High Water and Tai Shan, made HYF an 8 song album like PoW and it would have made it a better record. The format change from vinyl to cd made most artists add more material to albums - but often to the detriment of the listening experience. HYF works better imo, as a 40 minute record

 

Here's an improved HYF

 

Side 1

Force 10

Time Stand Still

Open Secrets

Second Nature

 

Side 2

Lock and Key

Turn the Page

Prime Mover

Mission

 

Addition by subtraction - try it you'll like it

 

Using that math method, (for me) Snakes & Arrows would’ve been an EP consisting of the instrumentals & The Way the Wind Blows.

 

Bones would’ve looked like this:

 

1. Dreamline

2. Bravado

3. Roll the Bones (edited without rap)

4. Where’s My Thing?

5. Heresy

6. Ghost of a Chance

 

Still, I wouldn’t have had it this way as all of the other songs (which I don’t really like) were necessary in their overall development. Without them we likely wouldn’t have had some of the later gems that we did.

 

Clockwork Angels:

 

I really don't see how this could be reduced to a single LP without compromising the storyline, so it can be a double album.

 

Compromise the storyline then! For as great as Headlong Flight, The Anarchist, and Clockwork Angels are, some of those other songs just have to go! :blaze:

 

I can't do it!... I really only dislike Wish Them Well and Halo Effect. Someone else will have to do it.

 

I’ll do it then! And those two would be first on my list! After that it’d be BU2B2. I don’t need those less than 2 minutes of filler and storyline. From there I can do away with 7 Cities of Gold and The Wreckers. That’d leave me with 7 satisfying tracks [3 of which are great (the ones I already mentioned)].

 

I would hate to see 7 Cities go but I think I could live with that version of the album.

 

Do you mean my version of the album here? :

 

1. Caravan

2. BU2B

3. Clockwork Angels

4. The Anarchist

5. Carnies

6. Headlong Flight

7. The Garden

 

I’d change the order and actually I can do without The Garden but I’m in a good mood and feeling generous today :blaze:

 

Impressive. That works.

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