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Territories Discussion


Wil1972
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The lyrics to this song have always been thought-provoking, like many of Neil's lyrics, but lately I have really been thinking about it and I was wondering how others felt about this song, mostly from a lyrical perspective. I guess I understand where Neil is coming from here: we should think outside of our own little "worlds" and try to understand and appreciate other cultures and peoples. But at the same time, he almost seems to condemn taking pride in one's home country, which seems odd since Rush are so thoroughly Canadian and make a point of pronouncing it so openly. Am I wrong or missing something here? I have never thought it a bad thing to take pride in one's country of origin. Discuss?
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I think territories is about the different nations of the world conflicting with each other, or World War I. "We all figure that our homes are set above, other people than the ones we know and love", I do believe that this sentence is referring to nationalism (Which was one of the MAIN reasons WW1 was started). "They play the same territorial game" refers to the hunt for more land between each country (Imperialism, which was another MAIN cause). "The whole wide world, An endless universe, Yet we keep looking through, The eyeglass in reverse" Is about how people fail to understand the bigger picture because they are looking at everything all wrong. "Don't feed the people but we feed the machines" is a focus on how people were starving as the military industrialized and Militarized (Which was another MAIN cause). "In different circles we keep holding our ground" I believe refers to alliances (Which was another MAIN cause of WW1). "While their invaders dream of lands they've left behind" is a reference to how the soldiers did not want to fight the war in the first place. "The bosses get talking so tough" is a reference to how the leaders of the countries wanted to fight the war, not the people. "We get the drunken and the passionate pride, of the citizens along for the ride" Nationalism again and a reference to how the citizens of the world had to adapt to the ever changing war, and how the commoners had no part in the war, they just suffered the consequences. Now the name of the song itself is a big clue to my belief, when the war was over territory was divided between several nations. It could very well be about a different war, but there is no doubt about it that Territories is a song about war. Edited by TheLountainofFamneth
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I think territories is about the different nations of the world conflicting with each other, or World War I. "We all figure that our homes are set above, other people than the ones we know and love", I do believe that this sentence is referring to nationalism (Which was one of the MAIN reasons WW1 was started). "They play the same territorial game" refers to the hunt for more land between each country (Imperialism, which was another MAIN cause). "The whole wide world, An endless universe, Yet we keep looking through, The eyeglass in reverse" Is about how people fail to understand the bigger picture because they are looking at everything all wrong. "Don't feed the people but we feed the machines" is a focus on how people were starving as the military industrialized and Militarized (Which was another MAIN cause). "In different circles we keep holding our ground" I believe refers to alliances (Which was another MAIN cause of WW1). "While their invaders dream of lands they've left behind" is a reference to how the soldiers did not want to fight the war in the first place. "The bosses get talking so tough" is a reference to how the leaders of the countries wanted to fight the war, not the people. "We get the drunken and the passionate pride, of the citizens along for the ride" Nationalism again and a reference to how the citizens of the world had to adapt to the ever changing war, and how the commoners had no part in the war, they just suffered the consequences. Now the name of the song itself is a big clue to my belief, when the war was over territory was divided between several nations. It could very well be about a different war, but there is no doubt about it that Territories is a song about war.

 

I never thought of implying it to a specific historical event but it would work well in that respect as a companion piece to Manhattan Project in a way, with both WW's represented on the same album like that.

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I think territories is about the different nations of the world conflicting with each other, or World War I. "We all figure that our homes are set above, other people than the ones we know and love", I do believe that this sentence is referring to nationalism (Which was one of the MAIN reasons WW1 was started). "They play the same territorial game" refers to the hunt for more land between each country (Imperialism, which was another MAIN cause). "The whole wide world, An endless universe, Yet we keep looking through, The eyeglass in reverse" Is about how people fail to understand the bigger picture because they are looking at everything all wrong. "Don't feed the people but we feed the machines" is a focus on how people were starving as the military industrialized and Militarized (Which was another MAIN cause). "In different circles we keep holding our ground" I believe refers to alliances (Which was another MAIN cause of WW1). "While their invaders dream of lands they've left behind" is a reference to how the soldiers did not want to fight the war in the first place. "The bosses get talking so tough" is a reference to how the leaders of the countries wanted to fight the war, not the people. "We get the drunken and the passionate pride, of the citizens along for the ride" Nationalism again and a reference to how the citizens of the world had to adapt to the ever changing war, and how the commoners had no part in the war, they just suffered the consequences. Now the name of the song itself is a big clue to my belief, when the war was over territory was divided between several nations. It could very well be about a different war, but there is no doubt about it that Territories is a song about war.

 

I never thought of implying it to a specific historical event but it would work well in that respect as a companion piece to Manhattan Project in a way, with both WW's represented on the same album like that.

TLoF said a lot of good stuff already...though I never specifically associated the tune with a specific world event.

 

Simply: Territories and Manhattan Project both refer to seizing POWER and wielding it.

 

The "better food/better beer" bits I never thought quite fit.

But I always liked the "in different/indifferent" word play.

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I love the song.

 

i don't delve into lyrics. I listen to music for enjoyment, not to solve or think about the problems of the world or mankind.

 

I listen to music for enjoyment too. And sometimes that enjoyment inlcudes lyrics I enjoy.

[see also: Bob Dylan lyrics as there is, at times, a complete novel in a single song]

 

I also enjoy some Spinal Tap lyrics so it's not all serious, possibly earth shattering wordage that I'm into. Sometimes I'd like to hear about Stone Henge and the cat's meow and mud flaps and bum cakes.

Edited by JohnnyBlaze
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I think territories is about the different nations of the world conflicting with each other, or World War I. "We all figure that our homes are set above, other people than the ones we know and love", I do believe that this sentence is referring to nationalism (Which was one of the MAIN reasons WW1 was started). "They play the same territorial game" refers to the hunt for more land between each country (Imperialism, which was another MAIN cause). "The whole wide world, An endless universe, Yet we keep looking through, The eyeglass in reverse" Is about how people fail to understand the bigger picture because they are looking at everything all wrong. "Don't feed the people but we feed the machines" is a focus on how people were starving as the military industrialized and Militarized (Which was another MAIN cause). "In different circles we keep holding our ground" I believe refers to alliances (Which was another MAIN cause of WW1). "While their invaders dream of lands they've left behind" is a reference to how the soldiers did not want to fight the war in the first place. "The bosses get talking so tough" is a reference to how the leaders of the countries wanted to fight the war, not the people. "We get the drunken and the passionate pride, of the citizens along for the ride" Nationalism again and a reference to how the citizens of the world had to adapt to the ever changing war, and how the commoners had no part in the war, they just suffered the consequences. Now the name of the song itself is a big clue to my belief, when the war was over territory was divided between several nations. It could very well be about a different war, but there is no doubt about it that Territories is a song about war.

 

I never thought of implying it to a specific historical event but it would work well in that respect as a companion piece to Manhattan Project in a way, with both WW's represented on the same album like that.

TLoF said a lot of good stuff already...though I never specifically associated the tune with a specific world event.

 

Simply: Territories and Manhattan Project both refer to seizing POWER and wielding it.

 

The "better food/better beer" bits I never thought quite fit.

But I always liked the "in different/indifferent" word play.

 

The better food, better beer I believe is referring to the rations given to the Soldiers and how they did not taste good. It is a symbol of home, with classic cooking and pubs where you could drink all day long.

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I think territories is about the different nations of the world conflicting with each other, or World War I. "We all figure that our homes are set above, other people than the ones we know and love", I do believe that this sentence is referring to nationalism (Which was one of the MAIN reasons WW1 was started). "They play the same territorial game" refers to the hunt for more land between each country (Imperialism, which was another MAIN cause). "The whole wide world, An endless universe, Yet we keep looking through, The eyeglass in reverse" Is about how people fail to understand the bigger picture because they are looking at everything all wrong. "Don't feed the people but we feed the machines" is a focus on how people were starving as the military industrialized and Militarized (Which was another MAIN cause). "In different circles we keep holding our ground" I believe refers to alliances (Which was another MAIN cause of WW1). "While their invaders dream of lands they've left behind" is a reference to how the soldiers did not want to fight the war in the first place. "The bosses get talking so tough" is a reference to how the leaders of the countries wanted to fight the war, not the people. "We get the drunken and the passionate pride, of the citizens along for the ride" Nationalism again and a reference to how the citizens of the world had to adapt to the ever changing war, and how the commoners had no part in the war, they just suffered the consequences. Now the name of the song itself is a big clue to my belief, when the war was over territory was divided between several nations. It could very well be about a different war, but there is no doubt about it that Territories is a song about war.

 

I never thought of implying it to a specific historical event but it would work well in that respect as a companion piece to Manhattan Project in a way, with both WW's represented on the same album like that.

TLoF said a lot of good stuff already...though I never specifically associated the tune with a specific world event.

 

Simply: Territories and Manhattan Project both refer to seizing POWER and wielding it.

 

The "better food/better beer" bits I never thought quite fit.

But I always liked the "in different/indifferent" word play.

 

The better food, better beer I believe is referring to the rations given to the Soldiers and how they did not taste good. It is a symbol of home, with classic cooking and pubs where you could drink all day long.

 

Interesting interpretation. :yes:

 

Even if so, I don't like the sound of the words in Territories especially when there are juicier words in it that I do enjoy.

It's my favorite song off PoW btw. :yes:

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What a great song!!! Power Windows is a flawless album. Territories is clearly about eating proper local food and drinking fine local beer while listening to quality music!!!
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I love the song.

 

i don't delve into lyrics. I listen to music for enjoyment, not to solve or think about the problems of the world or mankind.

 

Then how do you listen to Rush? :LOL: Neil has been trying to save the world since the mid 80s it seems.

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So is Neil simply talking war here? Or nationalism as a bad thing? Even though I feel it can be a good thing? If he is talking WW1, it seems a little naive on his part as the events that led to WW1 were more complicated that simple allegiance to nationalism, although I think that played a role. I always thought a lot of the escalation in WW1 was the result of too many treaties between too many nations and then those nations having to actually back them up. Anyway, my history is rusty, but my point is the same: is he saying being "nationalistic" or proud of where you hail is a negative thing? Or only in the context of, as TLoF mentioned, about war?
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I love the song.

 

i don't delve into lyrics. I listen to music for enjoyment, not to solve or think about the problems of the world or mankind.

 

Then how do you listen to Rush? :LOL: Neil has been trying to save the world since the mid 80s it seems.

 

Or commenting on it of course.

Subdivisions' lyrics are some of his best stuff. Couple that with the great music and you've got one of their greatest tunes.

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Now this point has probably already been brought up a number of times already, but I'll just add my little bit...

 

 

Because...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Obviously this song is heavy metal mayhem from start to finish! :haz: :haz: :haz:

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I love the song.

 

i don't delve into lyrics. I listen to music for enjoyment, not to solve or think about the problems of the world or mankind.

 

Then how do you listen to Rush? :LOL: Neil has been trying to save the world since the mid 80s it seems.

 

Or commenting on it of course.

Subdivisions' lyrics are some of his best stuff. Couple that with the great music and you've got one of their greatest tunes.

 

 

Yep. I'm just teasing Lorraine. I know lots of people who could care less about lyrics. Rush is just one of those bands that the lyrics seem to be held higher among fans than those of some other band's and are often discussed at greater length than the music sometimes.

Edited by Wil1972
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This site has some good commentary and quotes about the song:

 

https://rushvault.com/2011/02/07/territories/

 

“The title comes from an area around Hong Kong called The New Territories. I was struck by the sound of that word, and the territorial instinct. And what with the Northwest Territories being part of Canada, it was just the right sort of word to describe what I was after. As for the opening line about the Middle Kingdom, that’s still what China calls itself today. The reason for the Middle Kingdom is because it’s a middle between Heaven and Earth. In other words, it’s slightly below Heaven, but still above everybody on Earth. Some people look at patriotism or nationalism as being the next best thing to loyalty to your family. I don’t buy it.” (Canadian Composer)—Neil in Merely Players

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This site has some good commentary and quotes about the song:

 

https://rushvault.co...07/territories/

 

“The title comes from an area around Hong Kong called The New Territories. I was struck by the sound of that word, and the territorial instinct. And what with the Northwest Territories being part of Canada, it was just the right sort of word to describe what I was after. As for the opening line about the Middle Kingdom, that’s still what China calls itself today. The reason for the Middle Kingdom is because it’s a middle between Heaven and Earth. In other words, it’s slightly below Heaven, but still above everybody on Earth. Some people look at patriotism or nationalism as being the next best thing to loyalty to your family. I don’t buy it.” (Canadian Composer)—Neil in Merely Players

 

Good info. So I guess he is talking the negative aspects of nationalism. Rather than simple pride in one's nationality.

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I remember when I was in a geography class in college that the professor told us about how alcohol played a big part in many wars through history. Either not enough of it, searching for ways to make it better, or too much of it causing bad decisions and the fall of empires.
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The lyrics to this song have always been thought-provoking, like many of Neil's lyrics, but lately I have really been thinking about it and I was wondering how others felt about this song, mostly from a lyrical perspective. I guess I understand where Neil is coming from here: we should think outside of our own little "worlds" and try to understand and appreciate other cultures and peoples. But at the same time, he almost seems to condemn taking pride in one's home country, which seems odd since Rush are so thoroughly Canadian and make a point of pronouncing it so openly. Am I wrong or missing something here? I have never thought it a bad thing to take pride in one's country of origin. Discuss?

 

I've always read it as a condemnation of nationalism.

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More of a criticism on blind Patriotism than anything else I believe, especially from the perspective of someone who holds citizenship in various places (citizen of the world).

 

As someone who has Canadian and EU citizenship (born in Portugal, child in Canada, teenager in Portugal, young adult in the UK & Canada) and now a permanent resident in the US, I can totally relate with this song. Patriotism often manifests itself as small provincial thinking that effectively stifles intellectualism and progressive ideas. The concept of provincialism and the dumbing down of thought to fit a locale or system is a theme on Power Windows that is discussed from a few angles (Grand Designs, Middletown Dreams, Territories, and the influence of capitalism in this theme in The Big Money). Remember, Neil lived for almost 2 years in London after high school and by 1985 had travelled through much of the world. Living in more than one culture gives you perspectives not afforded to someone who has spent their entire life living (tourism does not count) in one country and absorbing all the rhetoric associated with that locale.

 

I like Neil's thinking on this song (and album) a lot. For me Power Windows is his first lyrical masterpiece. From this point on many more of the lyrics would be socially conscious, thoughtful and insightful. My connection to the band became so much stronger once Neil started voicing so much of what I was feeling. I love these lyrics.

 

My interpretation:

If you consider yourself a Patriot ask yourself why? What is it that makes you think this country you pledge allegiance to is better than any other place?

 

 

For me Patriotism is earned, not a given. My explanation is inherently political, so I don't want to go into it here. I will say though, that I actively rooted against Canada from 2006 to 2015 and felt no connection to my fellow Canadians during that period. It has changed recently and I am missing my home at a time when we are doing so much good.

 

.

Edited by diatribein
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The lyrics to this song have always been thought-provoking, like many of Neil's lyrics, but lately I have really been thinking about it and I was wondering how others felt about this song, mostly from a lyrical perspective. I guess I understand where Neil is coming from here: we should think outside of our own little "worlds" and try to understand and appreciate other cultures and peoples. But at the same time, he almost seems to condemn taking pride in one's home country, which seems odd since Rush are so thoroughly Canadian and make a point of pronouncing it so openly. Am I wrong or missing something here? I have never thought it a bad thing to take pride in one's country of origin. Discuss?

 

Patriotism for one's country is a good thing I think. We should all be proud of the places we live...but...I don't think Peart is saying it's a bad thing but rather blindly fighting/going to war over a piece of ground because of a flag isn't a good thing. Patriotism not jingoism, people are more important than machines...these are, I think, what he's trying to say.

 

This is a rare Rush tune where I appreciate the lyrics more than the music...some really amazing parts but always loses steam and fizzles out musically.

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Not to be too provocative, but... Why is Patriotism a good thing? What would be the harm if people weren't patriotic? I don't think Neil is just talking about going to war over a piece of dirt. There is that, but so much more too. This thing you say: "Patriotism for one's country is a good thing" seems like just one of those things that people say because they have heard it over and over. Why is it a good thing? What does the world look like without Patriotism? Is it a worse place? Why would it be? These are the questions posed in this song and they are important to ask oneself.

 

.

Edited by diatribein
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This song painted my opinion about the world perfectly-

 

"Better the pride that resides in a citizen of the world, then the pride that divides when a colorful rag is unfurled."

 

I have always found the notion that one's nation is in any way superior to be offensive to me as a human being, because it is too often used to justify blind obedience and acceptance of one's nations faults, to excuse those faults and to further refuse to believe that changing anything for the better is ever good. It leads to acceptance of status quo as the only acceptable choice and demonizes criticism. It allows for people to choose NOT to help others, or to assume others are somehow different, somehow driven by motivations other than basic human motivations. It creates a playing field when we're all on the same team.

 

It's the opposite of what critcs used to think Rush thought, and certainly seems to be in opposition to Rand.

 

I'm sure there are people in here who interpret the song different than I do, but the words were a wonderful confirmation of my world view when I was young. Now that I'm old my opinion remains basically the same, but I don't look for the confirmation the way I did as a young teen.

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I've read it as an anti-flaming nationalism song, which I wholeheartedly agree with. Nearly every time I see war or conflict on tv, it triggers this song in my head. One of the best Peart lyrics on PW. To state the song more bluntly...WTF are we fighting for? Edited by HemiBeers
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This song painted my opinion about the world perfectly-

 

"Better the pride that resides in a citizen of the world, then the pride that divides when a colorful rag is unfurled."

 

I have always found the notion that one's nation is in any way superior to be offensive to me as a human being, because it is too often used to justify blind obedience and acceptance of one's nations faults, to excuse those faults and to further refuse to believe that changing anything for the better is ever good. It leads to acceptance of status quo as the only acceptable choice and demonizes criticism. It allows for people to choose NOT to help others, or to assume others are somehow different, somehow driven by motivations other than basic human motivations. It creates a playing field when we're all on the same team.

 

It's the opposite of what critcs used to think Rush thought, and certainly seems to be in opposition to Rand.

 

I'm sure there are people in here who interpret the song different than I do, but the words were a wonderful confirmation of my world view when I was young. Now that I'm old my opinion remains basically the same, but I don't look for the confirmation the way I did as a young teen.

 

Beautifully said. Thank you.

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