By-Tor X-1

I know this is a very old thread, however I was greatly hoping someone had a copy of the original post's text. When the website's forum engine was upgraded a while back, some of the old formatting became incompatible and erased valuable information such as this. I used this thread occasionally over the years as a reference to people about the origins of the Tucson and Offenbach soundboard recordings, etc. Since these were "outtakes", they are not part of Skip's full interview published on other websites. ---------- Edit: I solved my own problem. I completely forgot about the wonderful "Wayback Machine". I'll repost it here for everyone who may want to read it:

Pretty much what has been said: none in public circulation. As far as I'm aware, none in private circulation either. Though I'm pretty sure I read somewhere a few years ago that the band made sure to record several shows from every single tour starting from I think 1980(?) and onward, but don't take my word on that until someone can find that source. Whether that means they made random board recordings for the sake of it, or had specific shows professionally recorded to multitrack, I don't know/remember. I've tried finding where I read that multiple times in the past, but I've not been able to find it. If we get Signals 40th Anniversary in 2023, we'll find out. My most likely guess of where they may have decided to record, would at least be Toronto 15, 16, and/or 17 of November 1982, and maybe some of the May 1983 shows in Europe.

I came here to post what I concluded from my comparisons, but it seems you beat me to it. My synopsis is identical, other than Broon's Bane which I did assume was March 24. In summary, the entire show is March 24, with the exception of the beginning with 2112, Freewill and its succeeding dialogue, then the encore with La Villa Strangiato all being March 25. I've just listened to Broon's Bane again, and I think it actually may be from March 25, though Geddy's overlayed vocal track is undoubtedly from March 24. Not sure why it would've been edited this way though, instead of just using the March 25 dialogue. I figured there'd be a margin of error in determining dates, considering the possibility of more complex edits like this. I noticed a few very small bits throughout the entire recording that seemed to have possibly been patched in from another source, as it didn't seem to match either audience recording, but I can't be sure about that, it may have just been my ears not being able to match anything. In the March 24 recording, Alex breaks a string during Red Barchetta, which is not in the official release. Geddy's vocals during the song were surely March 24, and I remember details about the performance matching March 24 as well, however the part when the guitar was being swapped out must've been filled with a portion from March 25. Most songs I was very certain about the date, some details were distinguishable. Though some songs I had real trouble finding differences/likeness, which were Limelight, The Camera Eye, YYZ (though the drum solo was easily identifiable), and The Spirit Of Radio. However I heard enough things that made me say "I think this sounds like March 24" or "I think March 25 sounds a bit different than this", so I'm comfortable with my synopsis above. None left me completely unable to decide. Of course, there is always a margin of error if more complex edits were made that eluded my ears. Other small details I noticed, the "ello, mornin gov" line mumbled by Geddy was removed from The Camera Eye, Alex's backing vocals are not featured during In The Mood, nor are Geddy's vocalizations during La Villa Strangiato. Technical details: I've been saying this for a while, I wish they would take note from Yes's "Seven Shows From Seventy-Two" and give us CD/digital sets for each tour featuring what they consider to be the best complete shows. (Ideally release every show they have recorded from each tour, but I know that's way too much to ask) That way great recordings don't remain unheard and rot for another 40+ years, or forever. I think I posted about this in this same thread a while back. I like your idea, if they still want to go with vinyl, they can do a single hodge-podge show, the full setlist, but the best performance of each song, pretty much like they did for the MP 40th. Yes also did that with "Highlights From Seventy-Two". I can't remember all what I wrote a couple weeks ago, but it seems the several posts I made got sucked into the void. Guessing the site had to be restored from a slightly older backup not long after the new software update, because I made some comments within a few hours after the site came back online. I did address @currygoat11's post above. Basically I was saying the documentation surrounding the recording locations of ESL is sparse and confusing. Every online source states Side 1, 3, and 4 were recorded in Montreal March 27 (as was the ESL footage), and Side 2 in Glasgow June 10-11 during the PeW tour in 1980. The official physical releases of ESL just state "Side 1, 3, and 4 recorded in Canada" and "Side 2 recorded in the UK". Yet if you read old post on this site, DRE, and other places online, people casually refer to Toronto being recorded for ESL as if it were common knowledge. I've been wondering where that missing link of knowledge stems from. I mentioned this confusion a few months back, and someone directly sent me a link to this old interview with Neil. In it Neil states: "So we went over to the UK, recorded some shows over there, some of which would make up side two of this live record, notably London, Manchester and Glasgow." and "We went out on tour again for about a century, through most of the US, and some of Canada. More shows were recorded: Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa, Vancouver and Edmonton, all of which show up on sides one, three and four. We also filmed the Montreal show, which we hope to put together as our first real concert film." The only way to know for sure is more close comparisons, among those recordings we have, but I imagine it'd be quite hard considering all the studio editing done before ESL was released. All else I remember from my missing posts was basically saying that I personally think the new live show sounds really fantastic, despite some people who don't for one reason or another, and that I really enjoy the distinct bass in the mix. And yes, I easily prefer this to ESL. While great, ESL is short and doesn't remotely follow any actual setlist. Related to what I mentioned above, this doesn't bother me that much either, as long as we're getting a complete setlist that runs through seamlessly. The fades they had between songs on the PeW 40th still bothers me (especially Hemispheres into CTTH!), despite really enjoying that release as well. I won't go further into my nitpicks about previous 40th releases, despite enjoying them all (anything is better than nothing), though there's still things I wish were done differently. I don't have any complaints at all with this one. I guess it's nerdy nitpicking, but I guess my one minor gripe is if they continue down this route, that they would be more detailed in the liner notes about the dates of each song/multitrack used, that way we don't have to wonder with these rough comparisons. Either way, I sure hope they keep on with releasing complete setlists, whether from a single performance or not. No fades, no handpicked songs, no out of order setlists, no partial shows, etc. This is all assuming they continue on with Signals in 2023 of course.

I concur that Vital Signs from "Live In YYZ" is undoubtedly from March 24. I played a few seconds of the official track, then played the same few seconds of the audience recording, and go back and forth through the whole song paying close attention to the way Geddy sings for the most part, as the vocals are the easiest way to identify. Also paying attention to any standout instrumental bits that could be unique. I'd used this technique to determine the dates of the PeW 40th and some other official recordings in the past. My most likely theory here is that they simply labeled the wrong date, the entire show is likely March 24 and not March 25. If this is surprising, remember that the Hemispheres 40th Anniversary's version of 2112 was labeled as being the Tuscon '78 version, but it was actually the Offenbach Stadthalle '79 version. The other possible scenario, they mix-matched several songs from the three nights in Toronto '81, but the fact they actually gave us the March 25th date, not just "Live in YYZ", leads me to believe it was meant to be from all one performance. The PeW 40th didn't give us dates, rather just the cities, which all happened to be locations they marathoned consecutive nights at, so comparing to old audience recordings were the only way I was able to denote the exact dates. Interestingly, the March 25 audience recording was unblocked on YouTube a few days ago, after having been blocked a couple weeks before the MP 40th reveal. Now the March 24 recording has been blocked as of a few days ago. So I'm going to guess whoever issued the copyright claim realized the date error, and probably the entire "Live In YYZ" is March 24. This kind of stuff may be trivial to some people, but I'm a stickler for historical details and accuracy. I find it interesting that they got the date wrong on an official release yet again. Speaking of that, what's this talk about ESL being recorded in Toronto? I know the ESL footage was from Montreal March 27, but the LP is stated to be from Montreal March 27 as well (not counting Side 2), albeit a completely different mastering and much studio tampering. Were they already labeling dates incorrectly this far back? I'll have to look into this some more. If true, that old saying goes, you learn something new every day.

The tracks from the Stadthalle soundboard that were from a completely different recording were Cygnus X-1 and Something For Nothing, which were recorded at one of the four nights at the Hammersmith in London in May 1979. They were edited in by Ian Grandy to "complete" the setlist (the tape was originally made for Geddy), since those two songs were dropped from the setlist for all dates in Germany. Personally my favorite is the Detroit board as well, but I think the Tuscon one is just as good. Tucson does have a temporary quality change during Hemispheres, but every single source is like this, so if it was a filled cut, I'd assume it was done by Ian Grandy. Both of these board boots have versions with their known cuts filled in from each other, which are completely unnoticeable due to the near identical quality and performances being only a few days apart. Tuscon had a cut during the quiet part of "Cygnus: Bringer of Balance" of Hemispheres, filled in from Detroit, and Detroit was missing the beginning of Working Man, filled in from Tuscon. The cuts are small enough for the fills not to bother me that much (referring to historical inaccuracy), and I really really enjoy those versions of those two shows. While I also really enjoy the performance of the Offenbach Stadthalle board, the edits of Cygnus X-1 and Something For Nothing are noticeable, so it detracts a slight bit from it being my favorite. I think I recall reading that they started making sure to record at least several shows from every tour 1980 or 1981 and onward, recording more from each tour as time went on as doing so became easier. I imagine they have plenty material for future 40th Anniversary sets if the label sees this line continuing to be profitable. That's been my whole theory why they always re-release the same old poor transfers and haven't even released a remastered version of the truncated footage; the copy used for the MTV premiere is possibly all they have, or is just the easiest thing to use without putting a lot of time and money into. I was plenty happy to get an official release of the Pinkpop show, I think that mastering sounds better than even the best of the bootleg sources I've heard. My thing is: with the other board tapes out there, perhaps more than those we know about, a complete setlist of a tour as monumental as the Hemispheres tour would've been the best way to represent it for the 40th Anniversary, especially after they gave us a full AFTK setlist for the AFTK 40th, it seemed a bit of a step backwards, probably to cut costs. Even if they had to handpick songs like with the PeW 40th, it seems completely strange not to include a recording of Hemispheres performed in its entirety versus just The Sphere performed for the short set at PinkPop. That also goes for a recording of Circumstances. If the choice of PinkPop wasn't to cut costs, I imagine they just weren't satisfied with the quality of the other complete recordings to be used for an official release. I think a Signals 40th has a pretty good chance to happen. Unless they want to get one ready near the holidays of this year, I'd more expect it to happen in 2023. Two a year seems to be rushing things. The Signals tour extended well into 1983, so releasing it next year doesn't seem too out of place, definitely not more so than the MP set coming out in 2022.

I pre-ordered last night, I'm more than pleased. Despite some who still kept doubting it was going to happen, I've been confident that this was still coming after Alex and Hugh Syme re-confirmed it last year. Though I expected another mashup of select live tracks from various MP tour dates like they did for the PeW 40th (with the annoying fades between songs). I initially suspected some would be from Edmonton June 25, since that version of 2112 Overture / Temples was used for the 2112 Deluxe Edition released in 2012, which also featured A Passage To Bangkok from Manchester 1980 later reused for the PeW 40th set. More recently I also had had a feeling some tracks would be from Toronto March 25, because they randomly blocked the old audience recording on YouTube a couple weeks ago. I'm more than ecstatic they're releasing a complete setlist again from a single show, something they haven't done since the AFTK 40th. I did not expect that at all. I sadly didn't think they'd put in the time, effort, and money for this type of output again. In the meantime, I'm going to relisten to the audience recording of the March 25 show (and the previous two nights in Toronto) this weekend to reacquaint myself with the performance, in anticipation for the new mix. I was dreaming for a remastered release of the Montreal footage (ESL), ideally even the complete concert if the full footage still exists, but I knew that was a lot to expect, so I didn't have high hopes. It seems all they have left are old tape transfers used for the MTV premiere in the early 80s, which don't look that amazing. I'm not even really a serious videophile, it's just too dark and grainy. I've heard mixed stores whether the original film reels still exist or not, but I imagine the truth is no one really knows, even if someone (here I think) once claimed the original film canisters were seen during making "Beyond The Lighted Stage". All the other miscellaneous items in the package are what I'd expect based on previous 40th releases, but the drum sticks and die-cast Red Barchetta were a surprise and are really cool. I don't have any complaints, and despite having certain feelings/concerns about some of the previous 40th sets (which I still love), I'm not hard to please when it comes to live material and am still always happy they give us anything in the first place. I hope the trend of using full concerts continues if they'll keep on with the 40th releases. Ideally I'd like to see them just launch a new line of purely CD releases (and digital for the non-physical audience), each release being a set of discs with all recordings they have sitting around in the archives for each tour (or at least 5 or so of the best concerts), something akin to Yes's "Seven Shows from Seventy-Two", and call each set something like "Rush Archives Legacy: Moving Pictures Tour 1981", etc. It would be easier to produce and sell cheaper (and probably sell better), and would give us dedicated fans satisfaction knowing cool live recordings are no longer sitting around unused and rotting for decades. These could even feature unheard demos and rare singles. Assuming recordings from the early tours in their possession is just as scarce as has been hinted, one set could be "Rush Archives Legacy: The Early Years 1973 - 1976", and finally feature a re-release of Not Fade Away / You Can't Fight It, and stuff like the Agora shows we all know if that's all they have. I don't think they have much pre-1978, but at the least we know they still have the three June 1976 Massey Hall recordings used to compile All The World's A Stage, all three which I'd personally love to hear in completion. Considering they pulled The Twilight Zone from the 17 April 1977 audience recording (and ruined it by upping the pitch way too high) for the 2112 40th, I don't imagine they really have much else, if anything, recorded from that era. I hope someone at the record company sees this and at least takes note of the idea. Anyway, getting off my fantasy ramblings, I don't really expect them to go on too much longer with these huge, physical content filled, pricey 40th Anniversary sets, based on the overall audience scope, but I'm at least hoping for Signals since there are no known soundboards from that tour in circulation. As for that topic: For me it'd ideally be a gig before Chemistry was dropped from the setlist. Though if the May '83 shows yield the preferred performances, if they edit in Chemistry from an earlier recording into one of the European shows, I wouldn't be upset about that. Kind of like how they replaced 2112 in the Pinkpop show with the one from Offenbach (Frankfurt) for Hemispheres 40th, but in proper setlist order this time. (Re-releasing a non-headlining gig like Pinkpop was a bit of a disappointment itself, but that's another topic) I imagine the Nov 15, 16, & 17 Toronto gigs of 1982 and any of the May 1983 UK gigs would be the most likely candidates to have been recorded by the band. I think I'm seeing a slight trend that they tended to record hometown and overseas the most it seems, as well as consecutive nights marathoned at the same venue.

I'm surprised no one sought this out and shared any photos yet. It looks like people have been receiving their preorders in the mail over the last week for Hugh Syme's "The Art Of Rush: Second Edition" book. When it was announced months ago, it was stated that this edition has a new section added specifically for the recent 40th Anniversary artworks. I've long been curious if it'd contain anything for Moving Pictures, so I asked someone on Reddit who received their copy if they could check if it features any new art, and it does! It features what seems will be the main box/sleeve art, as well as the indivudual art that represents each song, as per previous 40th releases. All credit goes to Reddit user vomviersen for taking these photos.

With "The Art of Rush - Second Edition" book being announced for release on August 2nd, noted to specifically include the 40th Anniversary releases' artwork, I'd imagine that to mean they don't expect any more 40th Anniversary releases, unless I suppose one for Moving Pictures is announced before August 2nd. I'm personally in the boat of finding it odd they'd be already promoting MP 40th products and the 30th reissue disc set, and to still expect something later this year. Even more odd they'd skip MP altogether after these last four releases, but it really wouldn't surprise me if Ole/Anthem no longer cares after perhaps low sales and/or negative feedback. Also considering Any Curran is no longer involved. That's the problem with Rush's vault content being in the hands of people who aren't passionate about the band. "Not profitable = not worth the effort". It's really sad and disappointing.

Yesterday I saw one of Neil's handwritten lyric sheets posted on Reddit, with lyrics for Sir Gawain. I was pretty blown away because I had never seen it before but it looks like it was published in a book (Page 177). I looked through the book in my PeW 40th set again, even though it isn't that many pages, it isn't in there. What I did notice though was that the transcription linked in this thread includes a sentence that was cut out from the final book: "Reading the lyrics now, as they appear here within this anniversary release, seen on Neil's original handwritten lyric sheet, would confirm that this idea was indeed not necessarily in step with the lyrical direction the band was taking with Permanent Waves." That is not seen in the book, nor the lyric sheet. I still don't know the origin at the moment. Edit: The lyric sheet originates from the new book "Wandering The Face Of The Earth: The Official Touring History 1968-2015"