KenJennings

The judges input is moot if there is a knockout. If both competitors complete the event, the result is judged. Having a competitor drop out results in forfeiture in many athletic events. What do you have against figure skaters and cheerleaders? They're phenomenal athletes with an extremely well tailored skill set. I'm not knocking them or boxers in any way. I just don't see their activities as proper sports. You appear to have some kind of problem with combat sports, that's ok. You sound like you've had this discussion before, it looks like you're in the middle of a conversation that's been going on for quite a while. I have absolutely no problem with combat 'sports'. In fact, I very much enjoy watching a good MMA fight. I've never expressed any criticism about the activities themselves. Rather, just the way certain individuals treat them.

The judges input is moot if there is a knockout. If both competitors complete the event, the result is judged. Having a competitor drop out results in forfeiture in many athletic events. What do you have against figure skaters and cheerleaders? They're phenomenal athletes with an extremely well tailored skill set. I'm not knocking them or boxers in any way. I just don't see their activities as proper sports.

Interestingly, Boxing is one the last things on this list I would call a sport. Fighting isn't a sport. A- There's no logistical element (no ball to move to a goal, no finish line to cross), B- the result is dependent on judges. I put combat sports generally more in line with ice dancing and cheerleading. They're demanding physical exercises with tremendous atheletes involved, but I don't see them as sports like Football, Baseball, Racing, Golf, or Curling.

Alex has been challenged. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dy6-del0jA Maybe they can warm him up like this: http://imageshack.com/a/img674/3123/0f0Pjl.gif

Also, I don't know if this supports Stewart or detracts from him, but Michael Waltrip echoed my sentiments on this in no uncertain terms. "To say that he did anything intentional, I don’t see how people come up with that. Because what would he have been reacting to? He didn’t wreck. He didn’t even know he was in a wreck, in my opinion.”

Unless it's a cop? http://www.therushfo...y/#entry3242872 Some new t-shirts you may want to consider for your wardrobe... Got Hypocrisy? Got Moral Superiority? Do What I Say, Not What I Do As tame as those comments were, they were indeed ill considered, especially given the overwhelming (and, in my defense, unforeseeable) shift in evidence in that case that followed them. Your turn.

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Referring to the dead as 'a bag of shattered bones' really demonstrates your superior compassion here... :eyeroll: But in regards to human behavior, which are the kinds of displays I think we both know we're referring to when we set aside the smartass opportunities for cheap shots, I stand by my statement. Convenient to leave off the next sentance. Also convenient to focus on a few speculative, shortsighted words, rather than the whole rest of the article, especially passes like: "What makes anyone think Stewart even knew that somebody was mad at him until the agitated kid appeared right in front of him? The cause of the previous lap's collision wasn't some heinous slide job by Stewart; it was more like two guys racing hard for the same patch of ground. How can we know Stewart even felt what appeared to be the slight contact?" So yeah, it's also convenient to throw logical deduction out the window. That just demonstrates a lack of character on your behalf. The ability to defend ones self should never afford them less benefit of doubt than they would ever receive in any other circumstances. It is only moral that benefit of the doubt should ALWAYS follow the accused, no matter how much you don't want that to be the case.

Robin Miller- who is actually a legit motorsports expert, former USAC driver, former Indycar pit crew member; wrote an excellent article on this whole situation: Nice to see a guy who's done it all, who's surrounded his life with the sport, speak clearly about the situation.

http://thebiglead.co...irt-track-race/ This quote was taken before the original video was even released. It was an emotionally charged eyewitness testimony. And I really don't know how we can consider it accurate, being that we know visibility was a problem at the time. The only sickening display is your witch hunting. I really can't believe, after all that's been said here, you're doubling down on your bullshit.

I do think you're right about one thing. The racing illiterate probably do think that.

You saw no need to protest the obvious logic flaws of the driver whose quote you posted earlier. (who apparently was confirming that Stewart was sideways and spinning the rears, although it wasn't even clear if he saw it at all) Once again, pay attention to how many drivers (in the race or in other series) are not rushing to defend him which would certainly occur if they thought there really was "nothing he could do". There wasn't, after he decided to goose the throttle. What logic flaws in the quote I posted earlier? It's a consistent statement. And "how many drivers are not rushing..." again, ridiculous logic. No matter how many drivers come to his defense, you can say "well what about the ones that aren't..." Silly. Really, why do you keep advancing this kind of tripe?

One other driver having seen him proves nothing. One other driver having not seen him proves that visibility was, indeed an issue. Also, do I even need to point out the myriad problems with the logic "nobody else ran into him"?

Maybe, but he's no Dick Trickle (just wanted to use that name, no idea how nice he is or isn't). Dick Trickle commited suicide in a cemetary while on the line with 911. Martin Truex has to be nicer than that. I can say from personal experience that Dick Trickle was actually a really great guy. Does Trickle hold the record for race wins for an American driver? He's got to be up there with all of the years he spent at Wisconsin short tracks... There was a racing historian who tried to track down the number of races Dick Trickle won, and he was in the 600s by the time he got to the 1980s, and then there were too many to count.

Maybe, but he's no Dick Trickle (just wanted to use that name, no idea how nice he is or isn't). Dick Trickle commited suicide in a cemetary while on the line with 911. Martin Truex has to be nicer than that. I can say from personal experience that Dick Trickle was actually a really great guy.

Read about this earlier, sorry to hear, Martin Truex always seemed like one of the nicer guys in the garage area.

Horsepucks. Most big time circle track racers (NASCAR, USAC. ARCA, Indy Car, etc). evolved by starting with go-karts, to midget racers, to sprint cars, to the Big Leagues. Some of them still do an occasional sprint car race when the schedule fits. And some of them Jumped genres. Jeez, Mario Andretti did USAC stock cars, Indy cars. Formula 1. FIA GT (Daytona, LeMans, etc.), and you can bet if he had time, he was tooling around some little "bullring" track near Nazareth. Agreed. Racing is a way of life to these guys... Also, for smaller venues, having a star like Tony Stewart is a HUGE draw. It brings money to the smaller teams by bringing bigger crowds, and bigger purses. It would not be good for racing to have the big guys abandon the local tracks of the country. Racing doesn't have academic institutions to back it up... You don't have kids racing as part of a high school or college program. The ladder to the top needs to be held up by both ends. I would think the racers like when a top pro comes. Right or wrong am I? I think you'll probably see a widely varying opinion. For guys who are really happy in their little niche, probably not. Just taking potential wins away from a guy who's not going anywhere. For guys aspiring to the top, what better chance to show that you can run with the pros? For both of them though, they can't deny the interest it brings to their local programs.

Horsepucks. Most big time circle track racers (NASCAR, USAC. ARCA, Indy Car, etc). evolved by starting with go-karts, to midget racers, to sprint cars, to the Big Leagues. Some of them still do an occasional sprint car race when the schedule fits. And some of them Jumped genres. Jeez, Mario Andretti did USAC stock cars, Indy cars. Formula 1. FIA GT (Daytona, LeMans, etc.), and you can bet if he had time, he was tooling around some little "bullring" track near Nazareth. Agreed. Racing is a way of life to these guys... Also, for smaller venues, having a star like Tony Stewart is a HUGE draw. It brings money to the smaller teams by bringing bigger crowds, and bigger purses. It would not be good for racing to have the big guys abandon the local tracks of the country. Racing doesn't have academic institutions to back it up... You don't have kids racing as part of a high school or college program. The ladder to the top needs to be held up by both ends.

You really need to get ALL the facts before weighing in. But you don't. Show me one thing I posted that's not a fact. Please. You're either claiming to have ALL (your emphasis) the facts or you're being a hypocrite by placing that burden on only on people who disagree with you. Have I posted anything that is not a fact? I ask because you have claimed that you believe tony tried to send the kid a message. That is not a fact. You also seem to have a lot of opinions about this type of racing not based on fact. My facts are limited to the sport in general not this specific situation since we don't know what tony knew and when he knew it. So many that you can't name any other than what's in the first sentence. I'll post educated guesses regardless of whatever silly ad hoc posting rules you devise. Here are some of your opinions (paraphrased) that are not based on the facts of the situation: Tony Stewart had motive to try and intimidate Ward. Tony Stewart is Mr. Magoo if he couldn't see. Accelerating is not an effective method of changing direction in that situation. Other drivers have not come to his defense.

So now that two drivers from that race have come to bat for him (after allowing emotions to settle, and reviewing the tape), as well as a former driver/mechanic from that race, and including testimony from the one driver directly in front who barely missed ward, saying that he was not visible, how do you respond?

The back end of the car will slip out, which will allow the front end to change directions quickly. You can see Stewart maneuver his car quickly to the left, then back to the right, rotating the car and attempting to duck Ward, after stepping on the gas. Drivers with more experience than anyone here seem to agree with me. What should be noted is that Stewart did almost avoid Ward because of his efforts. He came up short. Who knows if there was any move he could've made in that snap decision that would've ducked him, but he did almost clear him.

Sprint Car driver Mark Tychonowicz: "i have driven these cars,the right side board on the top wing will block out an entire car let alone a person standing there,i now work on the 45 car in the video and the driver said he just saw him at the last second and just missed him,Tony had even less time to react to the situation.people in the stands or watching this video have no idea how fast these thing happen and how limited our view is inside the car.it was a very bad turn of events that happened but we all know the dangers involved in the sport we love." A Sprint Car driver from that race, Cory Sparks: "From what I saw, Tony did everything in his power to turn down away from Kevin to avoid him, People say that they heard the engine rev up and he gassed it. In a sprint car, the only way to steer is you steer with the rear wheels as much as you do the steering wheel. In my opinion, what he did was he gassed it to turn down away from him,"

The head under the white helmet in my avatar is mine. I understand more than you think. No one here has a greater appreciation of the sport or the skill it takes to be on top of it. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't base beliefs on hopes. I said right off the bat to pay attention to what drivers don't say. If I was behind Stewart and he did nothing to contribute to the death, I'd be on every show in the country saying that. I hope a driver that was behind him comes out and says that. I'd believe him. If no driver goes to bat for him...that speaks incredibly loudly. Can you create a new avatar pic with a view from your helmet in a dirt car track at night with lower lighting on a turn with a black clad racer about 20-30 degrees to your right? Sounds like a good time for some power oversteer according to your earlier post. You're not the only person around with experience behind the wheel of a racecar. I've never raced competitively, but I have driven mini-stock on the dirt oval at Kopellah Speedway in western Wisconsin. I just never had the confidence to race in an event against others. I had the opportunity, but I sat on the sidelines and let me brother race. Are you disagreeing with my point or not? Your response had nothing to do with it. Do I need to reiterate the same points over and over again? Stepping on the gas helps to change the attitude of the car, especially when someone approaches out of the darkness on a visually impaired side of the racecar. Given a snap decision to be made, I understand and support the logic.