RushRevisited

While they may be over counting deaths, there are also under-counted deaths because people who die from it at home and were not tested do not count as covid 19 deaths. It's impossible to tell if the actual number of deaths is higher or lower than the given numbers. I just have to revisit this... So you think that people are dying at home of a respiratory illness in the midst of this very widely known pandemic and medical examiners and coroners are not performing a simply Covid-19 blood test during the autopsy to see why they died? I just want to make sure I am understanding you correctly on this.

While they may be over counted deaths, there are also under-counted deaths because people who die from it at home and were not tested do not count as covid 19 deaths. It's impossible to tell if the actual number of deaths is higher or lower than the given numbers. Then you admit that the numbers given are not correct, right?

Did anyone force the 40 people to go to the bar? Or did they go on their own and make their own choice to go, which affected you in no way whatsoever? Did anyone force the 40 people to go to the birthday party? If your freedom of choice affects me by spreading Covid to me or my loved ones, I think i have a problem with that. People fail to comprehend how a single act, even seemingly benign, could affect others. I HAVE to go to certain places like grocery stores...really no choice in that matter. But no one HAS to go to birthday parties or bars. People want to wrap this up as Freedom of Choice, but it's really just stupid obstinance. No of course no one forced the 40 people to go to a birthday party. They chose to go and take the perceived "risk" of being around 39 other people. So should we stop all driving based on your example too? I mean 1.35 million people are killed in car accidents in the world every year, 38,000 just in the US. Many victims are innocent and were killed by someone either distracted, drunk, etc. Are you failing to comprehend that a single act, even seemingly benign, could affect others? I mean by your logic, let's ban all cars immediately. I mean no one HAS to drive cars, right? We can walk and ride bikes like we did just over 100 years ago and prior. I choose my freedom every single time over some media and government driven perceived emergency. Or should I start choosing what is really necessary in your life too? Edit to add: This is really simple - you don't want to go out? Don't go out. You don't want to open your business because of your fear? Then don't. My actions don't affect you in any way if you are staying home and away from everyone.

Did anyone force the 40 people to go to the bar? Or did they go on their own and make their own choice to go, which affected you in no way whatsoever?

And guess what - the barber was going to get it anyway and made his own person choice to open - and the people who went to him made their choice to go. So how about you make your choices and I will make mine, since you and I will most certainly get this virus at some point whether way stay hiding for years or we come out of our caves and start getting back to life again.

And what if you discovered that 50-80 times the number of "confirmed cases" you see have already had the virus and didn't even know it? https://www.medrxiv....4.14.20062463v2 https://www.livescie...anta-clara.html https://www.mercuryn...-we-knew-about/ That could mean that up to 100 million people in the US have already had this and didn't even know it. Meaning the death rate is MUCH MUCH MUCH lower than you think. Look, the bottom line is we have to open the economy - there really isn't a choice. Again, if you want to stay home and not come out then feel free. But your desire to stay home and hide will not trump my freedom. Never. Edit to add: If you want to go for some political debate on this please take it to SOCN. I'd LOVE to debate you on the reactions of certain parties on both sides of the spectrum. But those are not the rules of this board, so hop on into SOCN and let's discuss reactions by our wonderful politicians.

Colorado amends coronavirus death count - says fewer have died of COVID-19 than previously thought https://kdvr.com/news/coronavirus/fewer-covid-19-deaths-reported-in-colorado-after-health-department-changes-fatality-categorization/

I'd argue that this virus is significantly more deadly than any other thing. Even if you don't want to say 80,000 dead in the US because of inflated numbers. I'll be generous and cut that in half. So 40,000 dead in 2 months. Houston, we have a problem. The number of increased deaths is undeniable. They are burying people in mass graves in NYC, because so many are dying. So many more than normal. What's the cause of all that death? The media shoving it down our throats? It's real buddy. And the solution isn't as simple as some guy afraid of dying staying home. Staying home is also supposed to SLOW THE VIRUS DOWN, so that it has a reduced chance to spread to the vulnerable. Until there are vaccines and treatments. People are really showing their selfish, true colors with this thing. Normally I wouldn't give a shit. But people are dying because of it. And yeah, I look forward to the day that we can safely have beer together. I'll buy the first round. No shit it's real, buddy. So is the flu. Do you react like this every year when the flu comes around and kills up to 60,000- 65,000 people? No? Why not? It's a real question you should ask yourself. You almost seem militant to anyone who doesn't completely agree with you and want to seal themselves in a cave and not come out until a vaccine is ready. That is your choice to do that. Seal yourself in. Many of the rest of us are ready to get back to normal life and would rather "take the risk". Keep yourself sealed in - and people who feel they are at risk - stay in hiding. The opening of businesses and regular life that you are so against does not affect you because you are hunkering down until there is a vaccine or the virus goes away through herd immunity. So my going out won't affect you at all. In fact you should want people to all go out while you don't and then the 60-70% herd immunity will happen for you. Maybe you are the one who is selfish, not the ones willing to "take a chance" and who want to get the economic engine of this country running again.

I wish it were as simple as that, I really do. Our county in PA went to yellow status today, which means more reopening, yay! Planning on spending some money and doing some curbside pickups tomorrow! However, your argument about Joe the barber ignores asymptomatic carriers. Our county prison had mandatory testing last week and several inmates and staff tested positive. Out of those, 80 percent showed no symptoms. Nationwide, the CDC estimates that 25-50 percent of people with Covid are asymptomatic, yet still can spread the virus. So, if Joe is an asymptomatic carrier and spreads the virus to some of his customers, 25-50 percent of those may be asymptomatic as well. And then they go and cough on me while they're walking their dog and I'm weeding my yard or whatever. That's what has been the bugaboo about this stinkin' virus all along- it can spread with no one realizing it. Myself, I hope for a mutation to something less deadly. :hi: Yes and people know that risk - do they want to take the risk going to the barber shop knowing that maybe, just maybe, the guy cutting hair (or the person standing next to them on the bus or whatever) might maybe have the virus. So if you are afraid of that then don't go to a barber shop - or make sure you only go to a barber shop where the barber is using a mask. But don't tell me that I can't go to a barber and don't tell Joe he can't cut hair and make a living because of your perceived risk. If you don't want to go places no one is making you. If you don't leave your house then you won't get sick, right?

There's over 4000 confirmed cases in 49 states. It's definitely here and certainly should be a concern but it's not time for a full on panic yet. They're taking the proper measures I believe in the limitations they've made in my state when it comes to big get togethers. It's gonna be different for a while but we'll get back to some normalcy soon enough. I think people are overreacting over here actually. At least it doesn't make total sense why everything's shutting down indefinitely for this one, but Swine Flu and Bird Flu and Sars and Ebola and ever other major health scare of the past 20 years didn't have half this effect. But oh well, people overreacting is probably what will keep the US from winding up like China in this mess... Overreacting is putting it mildly... That's the mindset that will get people killed. The time to react is a month ago. We should have been hunkering down then. If we all did, then this thing would have had a fair chance of dying out by now. Instead we are at least one order of magnitude worse off (amount of spread) than we were. It will keep spreading unchecked unless we limit humans contact with each other. I cannot conceive of people's inability to understand these simple concepts. Let's come back to this post in a month. We'll see who's right. Almost 2 weeks. How are we doing? 1 week short of a month. How are we doing? Still overreacting? So. Been 1 month now. Have we over-reacted? I have seen videos from ICU's in Italy. I'm pretty sure every person I saw is now dead. I have seen videos and photos of hospitals in the States, showing so many dead that the bodies are bagged up and stored in offices. f***ing offices. Mass graves being dug for victims in Potters Field, NYC. The thing isn't only a lung disease. It attacks the blood and kidneys. Ventilators are no longer the problem, now we need dialysis machines. So tell me - are we over-reacting yet? How many have to die from this population killer before it's taken seriously by the numb of mind? > 80,000 dead in less than 2 months, Have we over-reacted yet? Yes, very much so. How so? Please elaborate. Let me guess, the numbers of dead are inflated? The virus is fake? More people die in 2 months of something else, than COVID has taken? What's the basis? Let me ask you instead - at what point is it worth it to flush the entire economy of the country down the toilet? At what point should we shut down everything and ruin people's lives, people who have worked to start businesses, people in college, trying to learn a field and get an education for their future? At what point do we stop doing surgeries that are considered "elective" and make people wait? At what point do we all hide in our houses, not go out to restaurants, not even go out to get a hair cut? What number of deaths? How many cases of this virus? Is there a number of deaths you feel would make this worth the cost of the entire economy and people's lives? Have you accounted for increase in suicides, increase in number people putting off going to the doctor for things that could end up being deadly like mammograms? And to answer your question as to whether I believe the 80,000 is a valid number, no I do not believe the 80,000 number is correct. I think it is greatly over inflated. When the government gives a 20% bonus for "Covid Related Deaths" on Medicare payments, it creates incentive to game the system for money and there is no doubt that is exactly what is happening. Even just this morning, I posted in the SOCN area of this board this article, telling how a man who died of alcohol poisoning went down as a Covid 19 death. https://www.fr24news...rus-report.html And I guarantee that is far from the only one. New York has admitted that they aren't even confirming Covid-19 deaths, they are going by "presumption". So if someone dies of pneumonia, they just "assume" it was Covid 19 and classify it as such. Are you aware of the death statistics and who is dying? Do you really put forth that all those who have died from "Covid 19" would have lived otherwise? I can't believe you can actually believe that when the average age is so high and a staggering 98% of all deaths had underlying conditions to begin with https://www.worldome...x-demographics/ In a nutshell, even if the 80,000 deaths was a valid number and were legitimate Covid 19 related deaths, I put forth that a very large number of those people would be dead regardless of Covid 19. You should post in SOCN area if you really want to discuss, as you may find yourself more educated on this if you did instead of lambasting anyone who doesn't automatically buy the chicken little hysteria on this. I suppose there are things that I am not as educated about in this space. I have been following this virus since Jan 10. All I see is a trail of death. Even if some of it may be inflated in the US. There is still a killer virus, and there are still a huge number of fatal cases that wouldn't have happened in 2 months otherwise. What's the cost of a life or lives in the face of a killer virus, vs economic cost. You see a trail of death because the media is forcing it down your throat 24/7. Do you see a trail of death every year when the flu hits and takes tens of thousands of lives every year? What about when H1N1 took 500,000 lives worldwide in 2009? At what death toll number did you start to hunker down and be afraid of this thing exactly? If you saw side by side deaths from the flu or even something like "new heart disease cases" and "new heart disease deaths" would you be as concerned? What I'm saying is if you were looking at an update every single day on things like car accident deaths or heart disease deaths or flu deaths, you should be more afraid of those things than Covid 19. You have more of a chance of dying from a car accident than dying from Covid 19 - even if you are in the demographic of 80+ years old and in a nursing home. Nope, I don't want to die from it. I also don't want to die in a car accident, but I drive every day and take that risk knowing 38,000 people die every single year and knowing that I am taking a risk on my own life as ell as my children in the car every time. I don't want to die of the flu when it goes around every year, but I still go out. Life is full of risks. That is the decision for me to make in everything I do. I don't want cancer so I CHOSE to stop smoking. No one made me. 647,000 Americans die from heart disease every year. Do I want the government to make fast food and fried food (or anything else the government deems "unsafe") illegal in the name of saving lives? Nope. I think I'll make the choice myself whether to eat like shit or not. Well here is a really simple solution: If YOU are scared to go out because of the virus, the You don't have to go out. If Joe who owns Joe's Barber Shop wants to "take the risk" and risk exposing him self to Covid 19, then he can do so. His opening his barber shop doesn't affect you at all - because you are staying home, right? Look at it this way - you should want things to open up while you hunker down because herd immunity will happen much quicker. Then when it's all over in a few years you can unseal your bunker and come out and have a beer with me in a bar without maintaining 6 feet distance. :cheers:

There's over 4000 confirmed cases in 49 states. It's definitely here and certainly should be a concern but it's not time for a full on panic yet. They're taking the proper measures I believe in the limitations they've made in my state when it comes to big get togethers. It's gonna be different for a while but we'll get back to some normalcy soon enough. I think people are overreacting over here actually. At least it doesn't make total sense why everything's shutting down indefinitely for this one, but Swine Flu and Bird Flu and Sars and Ebola and ever other major health scare of the past 20 years didn't have half this effect. But oh well, people overreacting is probably what will keep the US from winding up like China in this mess... Overreacting is putting it mildly... That's the mindset that will get people killed. The time to react is a month ago. We should have been hunkering down then. If we all did, then this thing would have had a fair chance of dying out by now. Instead we are at least one order of magnitude worse off (amount of spread) than we were. It will keep spreading unchecked unless we limit humans contact with each other. I cannot conceive of people's inability to understand these simple concepts. Let's come back to this post in a month. We'll see who's right. Almost 2 weeks. How are we doing? 1 week short of a month. How are we doing? Still overreacting? So. Been 1 month now. Have we over-reacted? I have seen videos from ICU's in Italy. I'm pretty sure every person I saw is now dead. I have seen videos and photos of hospitals in the States, showing so many dead that the bodies are bagged up and stored in offices. f***ing offices. Mass graves being dug for victims in Potters Field, NYC. The thing isn't only a lung disease. It attacks the blood and kidneys. Ventilators are no longer the problem, now we need dialysis machines. So tell me - are we over-reacting yet? How many have to die from this population killer before it's taken seriously by the numb of mind? > 80,000 dead in less than 2 months, Have we over-reacted yet? Yes, very much so. How so? Please elaborate. Let me guess, the numbers of dead are inflated? The virus is fake? More people die in 2 months of something else, than COVID has taken? What's the basis? Let me ask you instead - at what point is it worth it to flush the entire economy of the country down the toilet? At what point should we shut down everything and ruin people's lives, people who have worked to start businesses, people in college, trying to learn a field and get an education for their future? At what point do we stop doing surgeries that are considered "elective" and make people wait? At what point do we all hide in our houses, not go out to restaurants, not even go out to get a hair cut? What number of deaths? How many cases of this virus? Is there a number of deaths you feel would make this worth the cost of the entire economy and people's lives? Have you accounted for increase in suicides, increase in number people putting off going to the doctor for things that could end up being deadly like mammograms? And to answer your question as to whether I believe the 80,000 is a valid number, no I do not believe the 80,000 number is correct. I think it is greatly over inflated. When the government gives a 20% bonus for "Covid Related Deaths" on Medicare payments, it creates incentive to game the system for money and there is no doubt that is exactly what is happening. Even just this morning, I posted in the SOCN area of this board this article, telling how a man who died of alcohol poisoning went down as a Covid 19 death. https://www.fr24news.com/a/2020/05/colorado-man-died-of-alcohol-poisoning-but-later-blamed-for-coronavirus-report.html And I guarantee that is far from the only one. New York has admitted that they aren't even confirming Covid-19 deaths, they are going by "presumption". So if someone dies of pneumonia, they just "assume" it was Covid 19 and classify it as such. Are you aware of the death statistics and who is dying? Do you really put forth that all those who have died from "Covid 19" would have lived otherwise? I can't believe you can actually believe that when the average age is so high and a staggering 98% of all deaths had underlying conditions to begin with https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/ In a nutshell, even if the 80,000 deaths was a valid number and were legitimate Covid 19 related deaths, I put forth that a very large number of those people would be dead regardless of Covid 19. You should post in SOCN area if you really want to discuss, as you may find yourself more educated on this if you did instead of lambasting anyone who doesn't automatically buy the chicken little hysteria on this.

There's over 4000 confirmed cases in 49 states. It's definitely here and certainly should be a concern but it's not time for a full on panic yet. They're taking the proper measures I believe in the limitations they've made in my state when it comes to big get togethers. It's gonna be different for a while but we'll get back to some normalcy soon enough. I think people are overreacting over here actually. At least it doesn't make total sense why everything's shutting down indefinitely for this one, but Swine Flu and Bird Flu and Sars and Ebola and ever other major health scare of the past 20 years didn't have half this effect. But oh well, people overreacting is probably what will keep the US from winding up like China in this mess... Overreacting is putting it mildly... That's the mindset that will get people killed. The time to react is a month ago. We should have been hunkering down then. If we all did, then this thing would have had a fair chance of dying out by now. Instead we are at least one order of magnitude worse off (amount of spread) than we were. It will keep spreading unchecked unless we limit humans contact with each other. I cannot conceive of people's inability to understand these simple concepts. Let's come back to this post in a month. We'll see who's right. Almost 2 weeks. How are we doing? 1 week short of a month. How are we doing? Still overreacting? So. Been 1 month now. Have we over-reacted? I have seen videos from ICU's in Italy. I'm pretty sure every person I saw is now dead. I have seen videos and photos of hospitals in the States, showing so many dead that the bodies are bagged up and stored in offices. f***ing offices. Mass graves being dug for victims in Potters Field, NYC. The thing isn't only a lung disease. It attacks the blood and kidneys. Ventilators are no longer the problem, now we need dialysis machines. So tell me - are we over-reacting yet? How many have to die from this population killer before it's taken seriously by the numb of mind? > 80,000 dead in less than 2 months, Have we over-reacted yet? Yes, very much so.

My suspicion is that it will follow Georgia (and Florida and Texas) which has been open now for 2 weeks including restaurants... With the numbers still continuing to go down.

Great idea - perfume and cologne are very high in alcohol, I hadn't thought of that :cheers:

Jamie - if you are around here today please update us on how you are feeling. Keeping you in my thoughts and prayers. as of now i feel mildly crappy, thankfully my temperature is normal but i’ve started coughing and my chest feels slightly tighter. i called off of work and i’m on hold trying to make an appointment to see if i need to be tested. Please keep us posted. Glad you are doing relatively OK... Hoping you just have a cold or something.

Jamie - if you are around here today please update us on how you are feeling. Keeping you in my thoughts and prayers.

That kind of greed could make them targets. They are getting hammered in the press and on social media in Canada. Really smart to go so public and brag about your profits. I sure hope they are declaring all that income. The Feds will have an eye on them now. I hope they get Matt “I’m the new Martin Shkreli” Colvin as well for his sanitizer hoarding. Hand sanitizer is useless against any Virus. NOT true.

The bubonic plague started small too. Then it infected 2 friends, and they each infected 2 friends, and they each infected 2 friends, and so on and so on and so on...... Bubonic plague had a mortality rate of 50-60%. Give me a break. This is a cold virus.

I saw an interview yesterday with a woman who has recovered from this virus. She said "Um, yeah I had a fever for about 24 hours and then a cough that lingered for a few days. That's pretty much all."

As of today we have 47 people in the US dead from this virus over the past 3 week. In the same 3 week period, we have 2,877 people dead from the flu (and similar demographic - older people and people with existing serious health issues). I am not understanding WTF the big deal is here. This seems to be one of the most over-hyped things I have ever seen. You would think the bubonic plague was going around.

Over 600,000 people die every year from the flu. This panic seems media contrived.

That was awesome :cheers:

Happy Anniversary Daylin!!! :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Between the Wheels (from Snakes and Arrows Live)

I have to respectfully disagree with your observation of Alex. He simply looks like he is concentrating, doesn't look angry at all to me...