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Why did 70s prog rock bands turn to new wave in the 80s as a sound change?


fraroc
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I actually think Yes and Genesis got better when they changed their sound in the early 80s. I don't think Tull did all that much, although I admittedly don't follow them as closely.

 

Rush, of course, peaked in the early 80s and then . . .

While I enjoy that time period from Yes and Genesis, it pales by like a zillion times to their 70's material.. Yes A ZILLION!! :)
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I actually think Yes and Genesis got better when they changed their sound in the early 80s. I don't think Tull did all that much, although I admittedly don't follow them as closely.

 

Rush, of course, peaked in the early 80s and then . . .

 

I prefer earlier yes and genesis but your post made me think that yes and genesis were both better suited for the change in that they fulltime kickass keyboardists.

 

I enjoy earlier Yes, but 90125 is by far their best album IMO. I saw the tour and loved it.

 

Genesis with Peter Gabriel does absolutely nothing for me.

Your favorite from them :) And i really like it too.

 

But 90125 is not even close to the majesty that was every YES album from The YES album through and including GFTO. :)

 

My two favorite Genesis albums are Wind and Wuthering and AToTT, but I find the Gabriel albums fantastic !

Edited by Mithrandir
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I don't think 90125 has anything on The Yes Album or Close To The Edge, but it's a powerful listening experience in it's own right. It's the sound of them finally turning Jon's overly optimistic hippie gibberish (yes, I do love it) into pop songs that pack a strong message and are truly uplifting. Hold On makes me smile.
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I'm gonna say it. I really don't like 90125. it comes across as Yes trying to be current and just failing. The pop sound wasn't a good look on yes....and to suggest it's their best album lowkey kinda hurts me, lol

 

Mick

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I'm gonna say it. I really don't like 90125. it comes across as Yes trying to be current and just failing. The pop sound wasn't a good look on yes....and to suggest it's their best album lowkey kinda hurts me, lol

 

Mick

 

It's a hard pill to swallow, and I can't begrudge you for not enjoying it. If you can get into the idea and sound of it though, it does turn out to be one of their better crafted albums.

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One thing I love about this place is how much it reinvigorates my love of music. Right now I'm listening to Abacab.

 

Just for Mithrandir I might even give Trick of the Tail a listen for the 4 pm hour. :)

 

Trick is my fav Genesis record. Abacab is a beast as well.

 

Phil era was FANTASTIC I don't care, lol

 

Mick

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One thing I love about this place is how much it reinvigorates my love of music. Right now I'm listening to Abacab.

 

Just for Mithrandir I might even give Trick of the Tail a listen for the 4 pm hour. :)

 

Trick is my fav Genesis record. Abacab is a beast as well.

 

Phil era was FANTASTIC I don't care, lol

 

Mick

 

Trick > Selling

 

let the games begin. :P

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I think with 1981's Discipline, King Crimson set a tone for many of the prog dinosaurs moving into the 80's and trying not to be irrelevant (or labelled as such). When Fripp disbanded KC in 74, he went on to collaborate with some very "hip" artists Peter Gabriel, David Bowie, Brian Eno, Blondie. His vision for the 80's Crimson with Adrian Belew (Zappa alum most recently with Talking Heads) at the mic and on guitar was aimed at creating a hip path for prog musicians to move forward with (remember progsters were regularly lambasted in the media following the emergence of punk in the mid/late 70's).

 

In his book, Bill Bruford also touches on the interesting divergence in the band UK - two musicians (John Wetton and Eddie Jobson) headed in one direction (a much more accessible neo-prog pop - achieved by Wetton in Asia) and two musicians (Allan Holdsworth and BillyB) headed in the opposite direction of the pure music world of jazz.

 

I'm always interested in that inflection point in popular music that occurred in the early 80's - after the punk revolution and disco were over - and the emergence of MTV. Image became overthing and in order to continue careers in music at a standard of living which they were accustomed, the brilliant prog dinosaurs of the 70's had to adapt or be relegated to nostalgia.

 

Personally, I prefer the 70's / very early 80's output of Rush, Crimson, Yes, Genesis, Tull, et al. but there were still some interesting experiments had by all.

Edited by cygnify
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I'm also reminded of an interview with Neil circa 1979 and all he could talk about was "the Police" and how they blended some punk energy with English reggae and pop accessibility. Also Geddy in the early 80's talking about The Talking Head and later Bjork. I think Rush always had their ears open for new sounds. Yes, they were originally inspired by Zeppelin, the Who, and Cream - later Yes, Crimson, Genesis, and Bruford - but they were always looking for new sounds and a new approach. So, perhaps their progression was not solely contrived to remain relevant in the changing music industry. They had a sincere interest in this new music (perhaps not always shared by the fans they had garnered from a specific era.)
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I'm gonna say it. I really don't like 90125. it comes across as Yes trying to be current and just failing. The pop sound wasn't a good look on yes....and to suggest it's their best album lowkey kinda hurts me, lol

 

Mick

 

I actually think with Rabin their songs were not so much "pop" as they were a little heavier.

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OK... I'm :codger:

 

I prefer YES 70's music - Yes Album, Fragile, CTTE, Tales, Gates and their 70's solo albums ( Olias Of Sunhillow, Fish Out of Water, Six Wives ) are all incredible. I did like Big Generator though.

 

I've seen all versions of YES in concert many times from the 70's until last year with ARW. YES live in the 70's cannot be beat. Just watch YESSONGS.

 

 

 

 

Genesis - Lamb Lies Down was their peak. Selling England, Foxtrot, Nursery Cryme are incredible albums too. I do own Trick of the Tail, Wind and Wuthering, ... and Then There Were Three and they are good albums but I prefer Genesis with Peter.

 

I've also seen both versions of Genesis live and Peter's version is more interesting to me, both musically and visually.

Edited by custom55
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One thing I love about this place is how much it reinvigorates my love of music. Right now I'm listening to Abacab.

 

Just for Mithrandir I might even give Trick of the Tail a listen for the 4 pm hour. :)

 

Trick is my fav Genesis record. Abacab is a beast as well.

 

Phil era was FANTASTIC I don't care, lol

 

Mick

 

Trick is the shit. Magical.

Probably love it the most cause i heard first.

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OK... I'm :codger:

 

I prefer YES 70's music - Yes Album, Fragile, CTTE, Tales, Gates and their 70's solo albums ( Olias Of Sunhillow, Fish Out of Water, Six Wives ) are all incredible. I did like Big Generator though.

 

I've seen all versions of YES in concert many times from the 70's until last year with ARW. YES live in the 70's cannot be beat. Just watch YESSONGS.

 

 

 

 

Just watch yessongs is right. Its free on amazon prime and its on youtube too.

 

Lately i cant get enough. The performance of ctte is as good as it gets imo.

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One thing I love about this place is how much it reinvigorates my love of music. Right now I'm listening to Abacab.

 

Just for Mithrandir I might even give Trick of the Tail a listen for the 4 pm hour. :)

 

Trick is my fav Genesis record. Abacab is a beast as well.

 

Phil era was FANTASTIC I don't care, lol

 

Mick

 

Trick > Selling

 

let the games begin. :P

http://images.christianpost.com/full/67777/phil-robertson-meme.jpg
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I never thought selling Was that hot of a record.

 

I mean you have Firth and Cinema Show....ok got me there but the rest. Never Liked Wardrobe all that much. HATE Battle of Epping Forrest. Moonlight Knight is OK.

 

5/10 at BEST for me.

 

Mick

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One of the things I'm still wondering is that in the 80s, there was more than one popular genre of rock music. There was arena rock, the beginnings of power metal, thrash metal....if the goal at the end was relevance, there was clearly more than one path.....but in the end, they all chose to emulate the Flock Of Seagulls, Frankie Goes To Hollywood, Kraftwerk and Gary Numan like sound.
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One of the things I'm still wondering is that in the 80s, there was more than one popular genre of rock music. There was arena rock, the beginnings of power metal, thrash metal....if the goal at the end was relevance, there was clearly more than one path.....but in the end, they all chose to emulate the Flock Of Seagulls, Frankie Goes To Hollywood, Kraftwerk and Gary Numan like sound.

 

i don't think i could stomach thrash Genesis honestly.

 

Mick

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I never thought selling Was that hot of a record.

 

I mean you have Firth and Cinema Show....ok got me there but the rest. Never Liked Wardrobe all that much. HATE Battle of Epping Forrest. Moonlight Knight is OK.

 

5/10 at BEST for me.

 

Mick

 

Firth and Cinema are two of my favs from it as well, but actually I think my most fav from Selling has to be Moonlit Knight, and it's reprise at the end of Cinema Show (I read somewhere they had originally considered doing Knight into Cinema into Aisle all as one piece, but they were afraid it would come off as a lesser Supper's Ready so they broke them up and bookended the album with them). But yeah, the rest is kinda slimmer pickings than I'd like.

 

Wardrobe gets old pretty fast, and I didn't like it THAT much at first anyway. More Fool Me is fine to my ears, but it's really creates a break in the album that lasts longer than it needs to, even if it's a better song than those little in-between tracks on Nursery Cryme. Tony said of Epping Forrest that he had written and recorded the music and was really proud of it, and then Peter comes in and just slathers the thing with lyrics and sings on top of all the other business that goes on and it annoyed the heck out of Tony because apparently Gabriel did that a lot (though one of the times he did it it became the climax of Apocalypse in 9/8, so it wasn't always bad). More or less I agree with Tony. The thing is 11 minutes long and kicks off the second side of the record. If you don't love this song, you're probably not gonna love the record, if only for the sheer runtime of it. And unquestionably it doesn't deliver for everyone. I'm sure it was fun live when the band had a bit more control over the business of it all, and it is a fun set of lyrics to read, and everyone's giving a great performance, especially Gabriel with all his voices, but with all of that said the band just isn't playing WITH each other as much as AT each other, and this is one of those times where even a non-music aficionado can tell there's just too much going on at once for too long.

 

I have a soft spot for After The Ordeal, if only for the title even. I mean, with where it's placed on the album, hehe, true dat. I hear Tony hates it though, not sure he ever really liked Steve tbh.

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One of the things I'm still wondering is that in the 80s, there was more than one popular genre of rock music. There was arena rock, the beginnings of power metal, thrash metal....if the goal at the end was relevance, there was clearly more than one path.....but in the end, they all chose to emulate the Flock Of Seagulls, Frankie Goes To Hollywood, Kraftwerk and Gary Numan like sound.

 

i don't think i could stomach thrash Genesis honestly.

 

Mick

 

In order to play thrash...they'd have to fire Tony, Mike would have to go back to his Get 'Em Out By Friday style of playing, Phil would have to step away from the mic, and they'd have to hire a new singer and guitarist...

 

so really, it wouldn't even be Genesis.

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One of the things I'm still wondering is that in the 80s, there was more than one popular genre of rock music. There was arena rock, the beginnings of power metal, thrash metal....if the goal at the end was relevance, there was clearly more than one path.....but in the end, they all chose to emulate the Flock Of Seagulls, Frankie Goes To Hollywood, Kraftwerk and Gary Numan like sound.

 

I mean, Asia did arena rock pretty much, and pretty well for a little bit. Not to mention the original woodwind player for KC ended up playing in Foreigner, Journey, which had started as a prog band, hired Steve Perry and became Journey. Styx had been prog and tried to carry in into the 80s a bit with arena rocking concept albums that had a couple new wave touches for the times. Heck, I'm pretty sure though Boston was never a prog band that Tom Sholz took a lot of inspiration from bands like Yes for their majestic sounds and atmospherics in order to create AOR (which informs a lot of the arena rock you speak of). So there were definitely a decent amount of prog musicians who chose to pursue arena rock. Let's not forget Queen was once a pretty proggy group, not to mention Pink Floyd turned prog rock into arena rock with The Wall, Supertramp's turn-of-the-decade endeavors owed more to the Beatles and AOR than new wave, and I'm pretty sure 90125 is closer to Journey than Talking Heads. Owner Of A Lonely Heart? That riff was tailor-made for stadiums. Also, prog bands were very unlikely to start playing a genre seemingly more concerned with power and heaviness and speed than musicality or complexity (or catchiness, beneath even the likes of Gentle Giant and Van Der Graaf Generator lie bands with a real penchant for ear worm melodies). i.e. There was no way that Asia's debut was going to be a NWOBHM record, or that 90125 was going to be a thrash record. Those genres weren't ever in line with the musicians' styles and tastes

 

I think all in all though, the end goal wasn't "relevance" as you say. Certainly that was a large enough consideration when it came to albums like Asia's debut, 90125, Big Generator, Genesis s/t and Invisible Touch, but also I think most of the old prog bands and dispersed musicians were really just concerned with making music that they liked to hear and enjoyed playing. This also explains why KC didn't return as a heavy metal band. Fripp wasn't interested in Maiden or Priest or Motorhead. He was interested in Talking Heads, David Bowie, that sort of stuff. New wave, when it came out, was probably seen as a lot more musically experimental and challenging than heavy metal. Being prog musicians, if they were going to try new styles, they were going to naturally be drawn to the most musically challenging and experimental stuff. In their minds, they probably saw the new wave as a kind of close relative of prog, certainly closer than Van Halen and Def Leppard. The only band with decent prog cred that really might've done something more in line with the NWOBHM or any of the metal underground was Rush, as they'd been one of the heaviest bands of the 70s and had touched on metal once or twice. But we all know they just weren't as interested in that kind of sound as they were in new wave. They were always more progressively minded than metal minded, and that showed when the opportunity came to choose the jazzier rhythms and musical complexities of new wave or the more powerful riffs and searing solos of metal.

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I'm gonna say it. I really don't like 90125. it comes across as Yes trying to be current and just failing. The pop sound wasn't a good look on yes....and to suggest it's their best album lowkey kinda hurts me, lol

 

Mick

 

I don't hate it but its not a patch on what Rush was doing at the time.

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I'm gonna say it. I really don't like 90125. it comes across as Yes trying to be current and just failing. The pop sound wasn't a good look on yes....and to suggest it's their best album lowkey kinda hurts me, lol

 

Mick

 

I don't hate it but its not a patch on what Rush was doing at the time.

 

Agreed. as i said some bands pulled it off more than others.

 

i also think Rush had nothing on Genesis in that era.

 

Mick

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