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Empire Strikes Back vs Wrath of Khan


JohnnyBlaze
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Empire Strikes Back vs Wrath of Khan  

37 members have voted

  1. 1. Which do you prefer?

    • Empire Strikes Back
      27
    • Wrath of Khan
      6
    • a different movie from the Star Wars camp
      1
    • a different movie from the Star Trek camp
      2
    • I don't care about either camp.
      0
    • I've never seen Empire Strikes Back.
      0
    • I've never seen Wrath of Khan.
      1
    • I've never seen either.
      0
  2. 2. Who's your favorite character from this group?

    • Darth Vader
      9
    • Khan
      6
    • Luke Skywalker
      1
    • Kirk
      2
    • Han Solo
      12
    • Spock
      3
    • Yoda
      2
    • McCoy
      1
    • someone else from Empire
      1
    • someone else from Wrath
      0


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This poll proves that there's way too many Star Wars freaks on here...

 

I'm more of a TNG fan.

You probably didn't even like Star Trek until TNG.

 

Why would you?

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This poll proves that there's way too many Star Wars freaks on here...

 

I'm more of a TNG fan.

 

Much better than the original.

There were some good episodes in TNG (and only 1 TNG movie that I liked) but mainly I didn't like the characters. The only one I actually liked was Picard...and he was kind of a pussy. But I liked how different he was from Kirk. And, let's face it, Patrick Stewart is an actor while William Shatner is a comedian without wanting or trying to be. But TOS had more characters I liked. All of them really.

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This poll proves that there's way too many Star Wars freaks on here...

 

I'm more of a TNG fan.

You probably didn't even like Star Trek until TNG.

 

I liked it OK but I didn't become a fan until TNG.

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This poll proves that there's way too many Star Wars freaks on here...

 

I'm more of a TNG fan.

You probably didn't even like Star Trek until TNG.

 

I liked it OK but I didn't become a fan until TNG.

Well I'm a fan of the original show, I've watched the episodes about a million times from the early 70's right up to today and they never get old for me.

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This poll proves that there's way too many Star Wars freaks on here...

 

I'm more of a TNG fan.

 

Much better than the original.

There were some good episodes in TNG (and only 1 TNG movie that I liked) but mainly I didn't like the characters. The only one I actually liked was Picard...and he was kind of a pussy. But I liked how different he was from Kirk. And, let's face it, Patrick Stewart is an actor while William Shatner is a comedian without wanting or trying to be. But TOS had more characters I liked. All of them really.

 

I don't dislike any of the main characters in Star Trek until we get to Voyager and beyond. Kate Mulgrews voice annoyed me from the get go. Plus I don't think the characters are as as likeable on that show. Enterprise, forget it.

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This poll proves that there's way too many Star Wars freaks on here...

 

I'm more of a TNG fan.

 

Much better than the original.

There were some good episodes in TNG (and only 1 TNG movie that I liked) but mainly I didn't like the characters. The only one I actually liked was Picard...and he was kind of a pussy. But I liked how different he was from Kirk. And, let's face it, Patrick Stewart is an actor while William Shatner is a comedian without wanting or trying to be. But TOS had more characters I liked. All of them really.

 

I don't dislike any of the main characters in Star Trek until we get to Voyager and beyond. Kate Mulgrews voice annoyed me from the get go. Plus I don't think the characters are as as likeable on that show. Enterprise, forget it.

The only one that had character on Voyager was 7 of 9's rump!

 

I lasted 4 episodes with Enterprise. Felt cheap with stale characters. I heard it improved but yeah well, I gave up by then

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This poll proves that there's way too many Star Wars freaks on here...

 

I'm more of a TNG fan.

 

Much better than the original.

There were some good episodes in TNG (and only 1 TNG movie that I liked) but mainly I didn't like the characters. The only one I actually liked was Picard...and he was kind of a pussy. But I liked how different he was from Kirk. And, let's face it, Patrick Stewart is an actor while William Shatner is a comedian without wanting or trying to be. But TOS had more characters I liked. All of them really.

 

I don't dislike any of the main characters in Star Trek until we get to Voyager and beyond. Kate Mulgrews voice annoyed me from the get go. Plus I don't think the characters are as as likeable on that show. Enterprise, forget it.

The only one that had character on Voyager was 7 of 9's rump!

 

I lasted 4 episodes with Enterprise. Felt cheap with stale characters. I heard it improved but yeah well, I gave up by then

 

I thought it was odd that Voyager and Enterprise had such boring characters. DS9 had some interesting storylines and though it borrowed a few actors and characters from TNG it was great on its own.

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This poll proves that there's way too many Star Wars freaks on here...

 

I'm more of a TNG fan.

 

Much better than the original.

There were some good episodes in TNG (and only 1 TNG movie that I liked) but mainly I didn't like the characters. The only one I actually liked was Picard...and he was kind of a pussy. But I liked how different he was from Kirk. And, let's face it, Patrick Stewart is an actor while William Shatner is a comedian without wanting or trying to be. But TOS had more characters I liked. All of them really.

 

Didn't like the characters? This isn't Voyager, aside from Stewart this is a show that also had:

 

Data

Geordi

Worf

Riker

 

And even Guinan and Broccoli were good!

 

You know how many Harry Kims or Malcolm Reeds it takes to equal one Geordi LaForge? Way too many :D

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I was recently trying to explain the different Star Trek series to a non-trekkie friend of mine, and I said "If Star Trek series were sitcoms, TOS would be All in the Family, TNG would be Seinfeld, DS9 would be Arrested Development, Voyager would be ALF, and Enterprise would be That 70s Show." Edited by KenJennings
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This poll proves that there's way too many Star Wars freaks on here...

 

I'm more of a TNG fan.

 

Much better than the original.

There were some good episodes in TNG (and only 1 TNG movie that I liked) but mainly I didn't like the characters. The only one I actually liked was Picard...and he was kind of a pussy. But I liked how different he was from Kirk. And, let's face it, Patrick Stewart is an actor while William Shatner is a comedian without wanting or trying to be. But TOS had more characters I liked. All of them really.

 

Didn't like the characters? This isn't Voyager, aside from Stewart this is a show that also had:

 

Data

Geordi

Worf

Riker

 

And even Guinan and Broccoli were good!

 

You know how many Harry Kims or Malcolm Reeds it takes to equal one Geordi LaForge? Way too many :D

TNG was better than Voyager by miles of course. But at least half the time I just wasn't interested.

 

The shittiness of Harry didn't make Geordi more interesting to me.

 

Data---nope, never liked him. Seemed like the Reverse Spock---tried to be more human while Spock tried to be more Vulcan. Emotion chip--nope, didn't like that either.

 

Worf---Actually, I did like him I just somehow forgot. And I think that says a lot right there.

 

Riker---nothing special to me. Good voice and look though if that makes you feel better. :P

 

Guinan---didn't care about her.

 

Counselor Troi---great body. That's as complimentary as I get with that character.

Edited by JohnnyBlaze
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This poll proves that there's way too many Star Wars freaks on here...

I wanna know why Khan doesn't have more votes!!!!! :blaze:

Did you make the votes public?

No. I usually do so that's why I didn't this time.

Now we'll never know who the secret Star Wars geeks truly are!

It's no mystery. Most have stated it already

There's some sneaky bastards who try to hide it too!

 

There has never been a Star Wars geek who ever tried to hide that they're one. Most are very upfront about it. All you have to do is say "Star Wars" and they're off and won't shut up about it for a very long time. I know this because I am one.

I think that being "geek" is all a matter of perspective. I'm probably a movie geek and as such, I really like both Star Wars and Star Trek franchises. So whenever I talk to average people about them, I tend to know more and so they think I'm a geek. But I'm nothing like the avid fans of either.

 

 

I do have a much better connection to Star Wars because (IMO) it made sci-fi cool. When A New Hope came out in 1977, sci-fi was so nerdy and it took itself way too serious. The original Star Trek tv show was proof of that. Star Wars took sci-fi mainstream and Star Trek followed suit with their subsequent motion pictures. The characters became more humorous and entertaining and appealed to people who don't care about what a warp drive is or whether or not a parsec is a measurement of distance or time. And I think the main character that did that was Han Solo. He was cool and funny and made watching the movies entertaining. I think there's a noticeable change in the Star Trek characters when they went to the big screen that made them more entertaining as well.

 

So, I credit Star Wars with improving sci-fi movies. And I think it helped provide a boost to Star Trek.

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I voted for "a different movie from the Star Trek camp", namely IV: The Voyage Home.

 

But then I went for Han

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I do have a much better connection to Star Wars because (IMO) it made sci-fi cool.

 

That, in and of itself, is a sin.

 

Sci-fi should not be cool. Sci-fi should not be popular. Sci-fi should be left to the outcasts and the dregs. It should be challenging and alienating to the masses.

 

I think this strikes to the core of why I hate Star Wars. It's accessible. There's nothing really special or unique about it. There's nothing to set it apart from the rest of the pop culture slime we're inundated with. There is no need for any gatekeepers or purity tests. It's easy... uncomplicated... cool.

 

Nothing bothers me more than seeing some faux geek-chic hipster embracing sci-fi. These phonies never had to struggle through it. They were never the pale friendless virgins clinging to a vision of a better future while the status quo of social heirarchy is stacked against them. These people never paid their dues. They simply don't deserve to wear the badge of honor.

 

Star Wars represents the poisoning of the well.

Edited by KenJennings
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I do have a much better connection to Star Wars because (IMO) it made sci-fi cool.

 

That, in and of itself, is a sin.

 

Sci-fi should not be cool. Sci-fi should not be popular. Sci-fi should be left to the outcasts and the dregs. It should be challenging and alienating to the masses.

 

I think this strikes to the core of why I hate Star Wars. It's accessible. There's nothing really special or unique about it. There's nothing to set it apart from the rest of the pop culture slime we're inundated with. There is no need for any gatekeepers or purity tests. It's easy... uncomplicated... cool.

 

Nothing bothers me more than seeing some faux geek-chic hipster embracing sci-fi. These phonies never had to struggle through it. They were never the pale friendless virgins clinging to a vision of a better future while the status quo of social heirarchy is stacked against them. These people never paid their dues. They simply don't deserve to wear the badge of honor.

 

Star Wars represents the poisoning of the well.

:clap:

Not sure if you're completely serious there but it was a funny post either way. Sci-fi doesn't have to be an exclusive club for geeks and nerds

 

The reason most people go to movies is to be entertained. And there's nothing wrong with being entertained in a sci-fi movie.

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I was recently trying to explain the different Star Trek series to a non-trekkie friend of mine, and I said "If Star Trek series were sitcoms, TOS would be All in the Family, TNG would be Seinfeld, DS9 would be Arrested Development, Voyager would be ALF, and Enterprise would be That 70s Show."

 

I recently tried to get into DS9 and couldn't do it. I've never really watched Voyager, but for some reason I liked Enterprise a lot.

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I voted for "a different movie from the Star Trek camp", namely IV: The Voyage Home.

 

But then I went for Han

 

Star Trek IV may be the only sci-fi movie my mom liked.

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I do have a much better connection to Star Wars because (IMO) it made sci-fi cool.

 

That, in and of itself, is a sin.

 

Sci-fi should not be cool. Sci-fi should not be popular. Sci-fi should be left to the outcasts and the dregs. It should be challenging and alienating to the masses.

 

I think this strikes to the core of why I hate Star Wars. It's accessible. There's nothing really special or unique about it. There's nothing to set it apart from the rest of the pop culture slime we're inundated with. There is no need for any gatekeepers or purity tests. It's easy... uncomplicated... cool.

 

Nothing bothers me more than seeing some faux geek-chic hipster embracing sci-fi. These phonies never had to struggle through it. They were never the pale friendless virgins clinging to a vision of a better future while the status quo of social heirarchy is stacked against them. These people never paid their dues. They simply don't deserve to wear the badge of honor.

 

Star Wars represents the poisoning of the well.

 

This is everything wrong with sub-culture, and a great recipe for having things that suck.

 

However, I recognize that most of this is tongue-in-cheek, and it is quite funny. And I also recognize that there's a part of me that feels that way as well.

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I was recently trying to explain the different Star Trek series to a non-trekkie friend of mine, and I said "If Star Trek series were sitcoms, TOS would be All in the Family, TNG would be Seinfeld, DS9 would be Arrested Development, Voyager would be ALF, and Enterprise would be That 70s Show."

 

I recently tried to get into DS9 and couldn't do it. I've never really watched Voyager, but for some reason I liked Enterprise a lot.

 

The issue with DS9 is really that it's first two seasons are really bad and slow. Season 3 really begins to set the stage, and seasons 4 onward are amazing.

 

DS9 was doing the kind of long form story arcs that are popular today, well ahead of its time. So that unfortunately works against it's casual watchability. Unlike other Treks, it's tough to pick up one episode and enjoy it as a self contained piece.

 

And that's kind of why I see it as the "Arrested Development" of Star Trek.

 

TOS was groundbreaking and socially challenging (like All in the Family)

TNG marked the perfection of the form (like Seinfeld)

DS9 was innovative and underappreciated, requring serialized viewing (like Arrested Development)

VOY was a kitschy product of its time (like ALF)

And ENT is reasonably well executed, dependant on a historical context (like That 70s Show)

Edited by KenJennings
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The sad bit for me is that I haven't been excited about a new Trek movie since the 80s (though Undiscovered Country and First Contact were good). With Star Wars it was just last week that I was excited. And I'm looking forward to next December too. I don't foresee any real good Trek movies probably ever. I didn't even bother with the last one despite most having positive things to say.
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The issue with DS9 is really that it's first two seasons are really bad and slow. Season 3 really begins to set the stage, and seasons 4 onward are amazing.

 

I have to disagree with you here, KJ.

 

Some episodes from DS9's first two seasons are classics and overall I'd say S2 is much better than even S7 was (barring some exceptional episodes and the ending arc of course).

 

For every Move Along Home (yuck) there was another good to great episode like the one with Tosk ("I am Tosk!", "That's supposed to explain all of this??"). For every time O'Brien went toe to toe with floating shaving cream you had Kai Wynn / Vedek Wynn conspire to blow up a friggin' SCHOOL! You had the best Trek pilot of all in Emissary featuring cool flashbacks from Wolf 359. Duet consistently ranks at the top of all-time DS9 greats, which is also in S1.

 

There was the opening Siege / Circle / Homecoming trilogy to kick off S2, Necessary Evil which was a really good look into Occupation-era Odo, Blood Oath saw three TOS-era Klingons reunite with Dax to get revenge "on the albino!", you also had the introduction of the Vorta and the destruction of the Odyssey / look it's the ENT-D being taken out! too. All of these episodes I mentioned I'd rather see again than Ezri crying in a corner about how she can't fill Jadzia's bra (figuratively and literally!)

 

DS9 does really get going in S3- and long ago it was the very first season I bought on DVD for this very reason- but ultimately the first two seasons of DS9 are really good, and absolutely destroy the first two seasons of TNG for comparison's sake.

 

DISCLAIMER: The episode titles I did not have to look up, which I guess puts me in the Geeky Trek camp pretty solidly. The Picard avatar probably helps too.

Edited by Del_Duio
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The issue with DS9 is really that it's first two seasons are really bad and slow. Season 3 really begins to set the stage, and seasons 4 onward are amazing.

 

I have to disagree with you here, KJ.

 

Some episodes from DS9's first two seasons are classics and overall I'd say S2 is much better than even S7 was (barring some exceptional episodes and the ending arc of course).

 

For every Move Along Home (yuck) there was another good to great episode like the one with Tosk ("I am Tosk!", "That's supposed to explain all of this??"). For every time O'Brien went toe to toe with floating shaving cream you had Kai Wynn / Vedek Wynn conspire to blow up a friggin' SCHOOL! You had the best Trek pilot of all in Emissary featuring cool flashbacks from Wolf 359. Duet consistently ranks at the top of all-time DS9 greats, which is also in S1.

 

There was the opening Siege / Circle / Homecoming trilogy to kick off S2, Necessary Evil which was a really good look into Occupation-era Odo, Blood Oath saw three TOS-era Klingons reunite with Dax to get revenge "on the albino!", you also had the introduction of the Vorta and the destruction of the Odyssey / look it's the ENT-D being taken out! too. All of these episodes I mentioned I'd rather see again than Ezri crying in a corner about how she can't fill Jadzia's bra (figuratively and literally!)

 

DS9 does really get going in S3- and long ago it was the very first season I bought on DVD for this very reason- but ultimately the first two seasons of DS9 are really good, and absolutely destroy the first two seasons of TNG for comparison's sake.

 

DISCLAIMER: The episode titles I did not have to look up, which I guess puts me in the Geeky Trek camp pretty solidly. The Picard avatar probably helps too.

 

Fair enough. Maybe I need to do a focused rewatch on season 2 of DS9. Trek second seasons can be divisive. I'm a rare proponent of TNG's second season.

 

As for Ezri and the 7th season, I actually really liked that storyline, and it makes sense given the traumatic situation Ezri was thrown into. Ultimately, the last 10 episodes of DS9 are so incredible that any flaws in the 7th season kinda get washed away. Season 7 also has what is likely my favorite Trek 'fluff' episode ever, in "Take Me Out to the Holosuite".

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The issue with DS9 is really that it's first two seasons are really bad and slow. Season 3 really begins to set the stage, and seasons 4 onward are amazing.

 

I have to disagree with you here, KJ.

 

Some episodes from DS9's first two seasons are classics and overall I'd say S2 is much better than even S7 was (barring some exceptional episodes and the ending arc of course).

 

For every Move Along Home (yuck) there was another good to great episode like the one with Tosk ("I am Tosk!", "That's supposed to explain all of this??"). For every time O'Brien went toe to toe with floating shaving cream you had Kai Wynn / Vedek Wynn conspire to blow up a friggin' SCHOOL! You had the best Trek pilot of all in Emissary featuring cool flashbacks from Wolf 359. Duet consistently ranks at the top of all-time DS9 greats, which is also in S1.

 

There was the opening Siege / Circle / Homecoming trilogy to kick off S2, Necessary Evil which was a really good look into Occupation-era Odo, Blood Oath saw three TOS-era Klingons reunite with Dax to get revenge "on the albino!", you also had the introduction of the Vorta and the destruction of the Odyssey / look it's the ENT-D being taken out! too. All of these episodes I mentioned I'd rather see again than Ezri crying in a corner about how she can't fill Jadzia's bra (figuratively and literally!)

 

DS9 does really get going in S3- and long ago it was the very first season I bought on DVD for this very reason- but ultimately the first two seasons of DS9 are really good, and absolutely destroy the first two seasons of TNG for comparison's sake.

 

DISCLAIMER: The episode titles I did not have to look up, which I guess puts me in the Geeky Trek camp pretty solidly. The Picard avatar probably helps too.

 

Fair enough. Maybe I need to do a focused rewatch on season 2 of DS9. Trek second seasons can be divisive. I'm a rare proponent of TNG's second season.

 

As for Ezri and the 7th season, I actually really liked that storyline, and it makes sense given the traumatic situation Ezri was thrown into. Ultimately, the last 10 episodes of DS9 are so incredible that any flaws in the 7th season kinda get washed away. Season 7 also has what is likely my favorite Trek 'fluff' episode ever, in "Take Me Out to the Holosuite".

 

The last time I went to a Convention there were 3 people walking around in Niners uniforms. I thought that was so great like what a thing only "us" people will get haha.

 

TNG season 2 has some good episodes though- Off the top of my head you have Q Who?, Time Squared (two Picards, one can't talk), and the foreign exchange student one with Riker and the Klingon ship. And Measure of a Man!

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