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An Assessment Of Future Touring Prospects


tomhealey
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So, why does Rush, or any band, go out on tour? I am not, nor have I ever been, either a musician or a psychologist, but as far as I can imagine, touring is driven by some combination of rewards of money and ego, counterbalanced against things like personal inconvenience, physical ability, etc., and weighed against the same balance for alternative sources of providing money and feeding ego. It's also possible that a sense of loyalty, to a band member's band mates, if not the fans, also plays a role, although I think that fits into the ego aspect. Are the rewards for touring the best direction for satisfying these human desires? Do the negatives outweigh the positives? Are there alternative means of securing income without incurring the same costs? Can ego find any other high to match audience accolades? Are valued friendships lost through a desire to cease touring, or leaving a band? These are the types of things that I think would go into such an assessment. Each day, all of us make similar decisions, regarding such things as food, leisure activities, and work choices, driven by the same imperatives of money and ego, although likely both the money and ego angles come in at much lower levels.

From what we've been able to see, the balancing for Neil clearly weighs against touring. Perhaps money is less of an imperative at this stage in life, perhaps ego is fed more by daily interaction with Olivia, and perhaps, as I believe, his ebbing abilities have truly made him concerned about playing on stage like "the guy that used to be Neil Peart." Again, ego.

So, those of you hoping for future live shows because somehow they owe us, or they didn't play where you wish they'd played, or you didn't like the last setlist, are out of luck, as I don't think those things, in their literal sense, have any role in the balance described above, except to the extent that they impact money and/or ego.

What sort of things might actually tip the balance toward more live shows for Rush? Again, I think you should focus on money and ego, the two presumed drivers for this activity. If bands were allowed to auction off seats, at least in the first twenty rows, that would put more money into the band's pocket that currently goes to unrelated entities through Stubhub, etc. Auctions would increase the money reward for touring, which might adjust the balancing. Or if Olivia expressed an interests in having more adult memories of her father playing on stage, that too, might tip the balance. What if Neil got to a place mentally where he felt that by not playing live, he was depriving future drummers of inspiration? Would things like that be enough to overcome Neil's inertia? Will Neil continue to balance these factors over the next few years?

I don't have answers to these questions, of course, only Neil does. But I was thinking about them this morning, and thought I'd see if others had any thoughts on the subject.

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I really enjoyed my time playing in a band and doing a few local shows a year, but I could never do this sort of thing as a full time job and travel everywhere all the time. I don't know how they did it for so long already.

 

So I guess I'm with Neil on this one! :D

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I accept that it's over for Neil, but Tom raises an interesting point- the Olivia factor. I've wondered that also. If she reaches a point in the next few years where she says, "Dad, I really wish I could see you play live . . . " I don't think he'll ever tour again but quite a few artists do those multi-night residencies in New York these days. I can see them doing one in New York or Toronto if Olivia wants to see Dad play again.

 

The rest of us would just have to figure out how to get the limited tickets and get there! :D

Edited by blueschica
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I accept that it's over for Neil, but Tom raises an interesting point- the Olivia factor. I've wondered that also. If she reaches a point in the next few years where she says, "Dad, I really wish I could see you play live . . . " I don't think he'll ever tour again but quite a few artists do those multi-night residencies in New York these days. I can see them doing one in New York or Toronto if Olivia wants to see Dad play again.

 

The rest of us would just have to figure out how to get the limited tickets and get there! :D

That will never happen. They'd lose money. Well, that and the fact that Neil will NEVER play live again. lol

Edited by FOH Lights
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Haha, it's not about money, and it's not about ego. Why even discuss the "what ifs"? Quite simply, it's just OVER, and maybe it's time for people to finally accept that.

 

It's simple. We discuss the "what ifs" because we love the band.

 

I'm a photographer. I often think "what if my camera could do....." because I love my camera.

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I accept that it's over for Neil, but Tom raises an interesting point- the Olivia factor. I've wondered that also. If she reaches a point in the next few years where she says, "Dad, I really wish I could see you play live . . . " I don't think he'll ever tour again but quite a few artists do those multi-night residencies in New York these days. I can see them doing one in New York or Toronto if Olivia wants to see Dad play again.

 

The rest of us would just have to figure out how to get the limited tickets and get there! :D

That will never happen. They'd lose money. Well, that and the fact that Neil will NEVER play live again. lol

 

OK, I understand that about Neil. I don't understand the losing money part. How did the Allman Brothers do their residencies at the Beacon Theatre for more than 20 years if that type of arrangement loses money? Billy Joel has been doing once a month shows at Madison Square Garden that continue all through this year.

 

I'm not being snarky, I just don't understand the finances. Are you saying the production values of a Rush show are pretty pricey and it takes many, many tour dates (not just a week) to pay for the show?

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Other than the cost factor, it takes them months of practicing just to get ready to go out on the road. its not like they're going to just throw their stuff in an old truck one day and go play the local VFW hall.
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Other than the cost factor, it takes them months of practicing just to get ready to go out on the road. its not like they're going to just throw their stuff in an old truck one day and go play the local VFW hall.

 

Yeah, I know they do spend a lot of time doing that before playing anywhere. I guess I was just daydreaming! :)

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Other than the cost factor, it takes them months of practicing just to get ready to go out on the road. its not like they're going to just throw their stuff in an old truck one day and go play the local VFW hall.

 

Yeah, I know they do spend a lot of time doing that before playing anywhere. I guess I was just daydreaming! :)

 

I think we all kind of wish it was still 1974 and we could live it all again. At least as far as the Rush journey goes.

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Other than the cost factor, it takes them months of practicing just to get ready to go out on the road. its not like they're going to just throw their stuff in an old truck one day and go play the local VFW hall.

 

Yeah, I know they do spend a lot of time doing that before playing anywhere. I guess I was just daydreaming! :)

 

I think we all kind of wish it was still 1974 and we could live it all again. At least as far as the Rush journey goes.

I don't know about 1974, but I sure would like to relive my Toronto/Montreal/LeStudio/Lakeside Park/Niagara Falls trip from last June that I took with my daughter

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Other than the cost factor, it takes them months of practicing just to get ready to go out on the road. its not like they're going to just throw their stuff in an old truck one day and go play the local VFW hall.

 

Yeah, I know they do spend a lot of time doing that before playing anywhere. I guess I was just daydreaming! :)

 

I think we all kind of wish it was still 1974 and we could live it all again. At least as far as the Rush journey goes.

I don't know about 1974, but I sure would like to relive my Toronto/Montreal/LeStudio/Lakeside Park/Niagara Falls trip from last June that I took with my daughter

That was so wonderful that you guys got to see Le Studio before it was vandalized and make fantastic memories. Physical landscapes seem to change so quickly these days; it makes me feel old! :codger: :)

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Other than the cost factor, it takes them months of practicing just to get ready to go out on the road. its not like they're going to just throw their stuff in an old truck one day and go play the local VFW hall.

 

Yeah, I know they do spend a lot of time doing that before playing anywhere. I guess I was just daydreaming! :)

 

I think we all kind of wish it was still 1974 and we could live it all again. At least as far as the Rush journey goes.

I don't know about 1974, but I sure would like to relive my Toronto/Montreal/LeStudio/Lakeside Park/Niagara Falls trip from last June that I took with my daughter

 

I said '74 because that was when the first album came out. That is cool that you were able to do that. I went to Toronto back in '82 but didn't know what I was looking for. So much more information about them is available now than was back then.

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Touring is the only way they can really make money and Neil doesn't want to tour. New music is unlikely since I don't think there is a good roi for the band with new music and no tour. Hard to say what the future will hold but, if anything happens, it will likely be a short tour or a series of nights in a few larger cities.
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Haha, it's not about money, and it's not about ego. Why even discuss the "what ifs"? Quite simply, it's just OVER, and maybe it's time for people to finally accept that.

 

It's simple. We discuss the "what ifs" because we love the band.

 

I'm a photographer. I love my camera.

And you're camera loves you right back
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I really enjoyed my time playing in a band and doing a few local shows a year, but I could never do this sort of thing as a full time job and travel everywhere all the time. I don't know how they did it for so long already.

 

Chicks dude...it's the chicks. You ever been to a Rush concert? Place is crawling with 'em
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I accept that it's over for Neil, but Tom raises an interesting point- the Olivia factor. I've wondered that also. If she reaches a point in the next few years where she says, "Dad, I really wish I could see you play live . . . " I don't think he'll ever tour again but quite a few artists do those multi-night residencies in New York these days. I can see them doing one in New York or Toronto if Olivia wants to see Dad play again.

 

The rest of us would just have to figure out how to get the limited tickets and get there! :D

That will never happen. They'd lose money. Well, that and the fact that Neil will NEVER play live again. lol

 

OK, I understand that about Neil. I don't understand the losing money part. How did the Allman Brothers do their residencies at the Beacon Theatre for more than 20 years if that type of arrangement loses money? Billy Joel has been doing once a month shows at Madison Square Garden that continue all through this year.

 

I'm not being snarky, I just don't understand the finances. Are you saying the production values of a Rush show are pretty pricey and it takes many, many tour dates (not just a week) to pay for the show?

The 1st part. While I do not know the exact details of the Allman Brothers specific contract, it probably is a set dollar amount.

We as fans think the artist is getting the gross amount. On an extended stay that is rarely the case. The artist usually gets a promised amount from the venue in exchange for a certain number of shows. So in this case the Beacon sits 2800, and if the Allmans play 5 nights they may get a set amount of say $500,000. Now that is without a single ticket being sold. Beacon can turn around with Citi and sell 2800x$100 for $280,000 times 5 shows for $1,400,000. This way both win.

It's No difference then telling a band at your bar, we'll pay you $400 for each night + free booze. If the bar is charging a $20 cover and no one shows up, the band still gets paid..if 1000 people show up over 2 days, the bar wins.

Santana and Billy Idol have deals in place for 15 shows a year at House of Blues in Vegas. That place only sits 700. No way they make money without getting a Set dollar amount for each show. The casino wants bodies 'In the building' and they will get it.

Edited by Disembodied Spirit
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I accept that it's over for Neil, but Tom raises an interesting point- the Olivia factor. I've wondered that also. If she reaches a point in the next few years where she says, "Dad, I really wish I could see you play live . . . " I don't think he'll ever tour again but quite a few artists do those multi-night residencies in New York these days. I can see them doing one in New York or Toronto if Olivia wants to see Dad play again.

 

The rest of us would just have to figure out how to get the limited tickets and get there! :D

That will never happen. They'd lose money. Well, that and the fact that Neil will NEVER play live again. lol

 

OK, I understand that about Neil. I don't understand the losing money part. How did the Allman Brothers do their residencies at the Beacon Theatre for more than 20 years if that type of arrangement loses money? Billy Joel has been doing once a month shows at Madison Square Garden that continue all through this year.

 

I'm not being snarky, I just don't understand the finances. Are you saying the production values of a Rush show are pretty pricey and it takes many, many tour dates (not just a week) to pay for the show?

The 1st part. While I do not know the exact details of the Allman Brothers specific contract, it probably is a set dollar amount.

We as fans think the artist is getting the gross amount. On an extended stay that is rarely the case. The artist usually gets a promised amount from the venue in exchange for a certain number of shows. So in this case the Beacon sits 2800, and if the Allmans play 5 nights they may get a set amount of say $500,000. Now that is without a single ticket being sold. Beacon can turn around with Citi and sell 2800x$100 for $280,000 times 5 shows for $1,400,000. This way both win.

It's No difference then telling a band at your bar, we'll pay you $400 for each night + free booze. If the bar is charging a $20 cover and no one shows up, the band still gets paid..if 1000 people show up over 2 days, the bar wins.

Santana and Billy Idol have deals in place for 15 shows a year at House of Blues in Vegas. That place only sits 700. No way they make money without getting a Set dollar amount for each show. The casino wants bodies 'In the building' and they will get it.

All true. However, I don't think Rush has the diverse fan base required for an "extended stay" like that to be successful for the venue. So, that won't happen. Well, that and the fact the Neil will NEVER play live with Rush again. :D

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I accept that it's over for Neil, but Tom raises an interesting point- the Olivia factor. I've wondered that also. If she reaches a point in the next few years where she says, "Dad, I really wish I could see you play live . . . " I don't think he'll ever tour again but quite a few artists do those multi-night residencies in New York these days. I can see them doing one in New York or Toronto if Olivia wants to see Dad play again.

 

The rest of us would just have to figure out how to get the limited tickets and get there! :D

That will never happen. They'd lose money. Well, that and the fact that Neil will NEVER play live again. lol

 

OK, I understand that about Neil. I don't understand the losing money part. How did the Allman Brothers do their residencies at the Beacon Theatre for more than 20 years if that type of arrangement loses money? Billy Joel has been doing once a month shows at Madison Square Garden that continue all through this year.

 

I'm not being snarky, I just don't understand the finances. Are you saying the production values of a Rush show are pretty pricey and it takes many, many tour dates (not just a week) to pay for the show?

The 1st part. While I do not know the exact details of the Allman Brothers specific contract, it probably is a set dollar amount.

We as fans think the artist is getting the gross amount. On an extended stay that is rarely the case. The artist usually gets a promised amount from the venue in exchange for a certain number of shows. So in this case the Beacon sits 2800, and if the Allmans play 5 nights they may get a set amount of say $500,000. Now that is without a single ticket being sold. Beacon can turn around with Citi and sell 2800x$100 for $280,000 times 5 shows for $1,400,000. This way both win.

It's No difference then telling a band at your bar, we'll pay you $400 for each night + free booze. If the bar is charging a $20 cover and no one shows up, the band still gets paid..if 1000 people show up over 2 days, the bar wins.

Santana and Billy Idol have deals in place for 15 shows a year at House of Blues in Vegas. That place only sits 700. No way they make money without getting a Set dollar amount for each show. The casino wants bodies 'In the building' and they will get it.

All true. However, I don't think Rush has the diverse fan base required for an "extended stay" like that to be successful for the venue. So, that won't happen. Well, that and the fact the Neil will NEVER play live with Rush again. :D

 

Well, then it's time for a new drummer and off to R01... :P

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I accept that it's over for Neil, but Tom raises an interesting point- the Olivia factor. I've wondered that also. If she reaches a point in the next few years where she says, "Dad, I really wish I could see you play live . . . " I don't think he'll ever tour again but quite a few artists do those multi-night residencies in New York these days. I can see them doing one in New York or Toronto if Olivia wants to see Dad play again.

 

The rest of us would just have to figure out how to get the limited tickets and get there! :D

That will never happen. They'd lose money. Well, that and the fact that Neil will NEVER play live again. lol

 

OK, I understand that about Neil. I don't understand the losing money part. How did the Allman Brothers do their residencies at the Beacon Theatre for more than 20 years if that type of arrangement loses money? Billy Joel has been doing once a month shows at Madison Square Garden that continue all through this year.

 

I'm not being snarky, I just don't understand the finances. Are you saying the production values of a Rush show are pretty pricey and it takes many, many tour dates (not just a week) to pay for the show?

The 1st part. While I do not know the exact details of the Allman Brothers specific contract, it probably is a set dollar amount.

We as fans think the artist is getting the gross amount. On an extended stay that is rarely the case. The artist usually gets a promised amount from the venue in exchange for a certain number of shows. So in this case the Beacon sits 2800, and if the Allmans play 5 nights they may get a set amount of say $500,000. Now that is without a single ticket being sold. Beacon can turn around with Citi and sell 2800x$100 for $280,000 times 5 shows for $1,400,000. This way both win.

It's No difference then telling a band at your bar, we'll pay you $400 for each night + free booze. If the bar is charging a $20 cover and no one shows up, the band still gets paid..if 1000 people show up over 2 days, the bar wins.

Santana and Billy Idol have deals in place for 15 shows a year at House of Blues in Vegas. That place only sits 700. No way they make money without getting a Set dollar amount for each show. The casino wants bodies 'In the building' and they will get it.

All true. However, I don't think Rush has the diverse fan base required for an "extended stay" like that to be successful for the venue. So, that won't happen. Well, that and the fact the Neil will NEVER play live with Rush again. :D

 

Well, then it's time for a new drummer and off to R01... :P

 

Agreed. Replace the grumpy old bugger and move on. He's not THAT special. Anyone can write socially awkward lyrics and overplay their drum parts...

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I accept that it's over for Neil, but Tom raises an interesting point- the Olivia factor. I've wondered that also. If she reaches a point in the next few years where she says, "Dad, I really wish I could see you play live . . . " I don't think he'll ever tour again but quite a few artists do those multi-night residencies in New York these days. I can see them doing one in New York or Toronto if Olivia wants to see Dad play again.

 

The rest of us would just have to figure out how to get the limited tickets and get there! :D

That will never happen. They'd lose money. Well, that and the fact that Neil will NEVER play live again. lol

 

OK, I understand that about Neil. I don't understand the losing money part. How did the Allman Brothers do their residencies at the Beacon Theatre for more than 20 years if that type of arrangement loses money? Billy Joel has been doing once a month shows at Madison Square Garden that continue all through this year.

 

I'm not being snarky, I just don't understand the finances. Are you saying the production values of a Rush show are pretty pricey and it takes many, many tour dates (not just a week) to pay for the show?

The 1st part. While I do not know the exact details of the Allman Brothers specific contract, it probably is a set dollar amount.

We as fans think the artist is getting the gross amount. On an extended stay that is rarely the case. The artist usually gets a promised amount from the venue in exchange for a certain number of shows. So in this case the Beacon sits 2800, and if the Allmans play 5 nights they may get a set amount of say $500,000. Now that is without a single ticket being sold. Beacon can turn around with Citi and sell 2800x$100 for $280,000 times 5 shows for $1,400,000. This way both win.

It's No difference then telling a band at your bar, we'll pay you $400 for each night + free booze. If the bar is charging a $20 cover and no one shows up, the band still gets paid..if 1000 people show up over 2 days, the bar wins.

Santana and Billy Idol have deals in place for 15 shows a year at House of Blues in Vegas. That place only sits 700. No way they make money without getting a Set dollar amount for each show. The casino wants bodies 'In the building' and they will get it.

All true. However, I don't think Rush has the diverse fan base required for an "extended stay" like that to be successful for the venue. So, that won't happen. Well, that and the fact the Neil will NEVER play live with Rush again. :D

 

DS, thank you for explaining the finances! I was wondering how those residencies worked. FOH, yes, Rush may not have what you call a "diverse" fan base, (although not sure if I agree with you on that) but it sure has a devoted one! Judging just from how many members here attended multiple shows and traveled cross country (and some from overseas) for shows, I think a multi night would be possible.

 

But yes, as you say, discussing is meaningless since Neil is gone. You are an inside person, details please. :)

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