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Rush, Ayn Rand, and Philosophy In Your Life


Lucas
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Peart has been partly responsible for perpetuating Rand's legacy. But for him most people on this forum would never heard of her and her snivelling little personality cult masquerading as an intellectually robust philosophy.

 

I don't know if I would've never heard of Rand were it not for 2112, but yeah, 2112 was my gateway. :)

 

I think it's pretty hard to get to the age of 22 and not have heard of Rand.

In the US maybe, in certain circles, in mommy and daddy's basement culture...

Everywhere else, outside of the Rush connection, she's totally obscure. As she should be...

 

Yes, if you're intellectually lazy and think that living in an echo-chamber is a good idea.

 

You're a fanboy, I get that.

Britney Spears has fanboys too.

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Peart has been partly responsible for perpetuating Rand's legacy. But for him most people on this forum would never heard of her and her snivelling little personality cult masquerading as an intellectually robust philosophy.

 

I don't know if I would've never heard of Rand were it not for 2112, but yeah, 2112 was my gateway. :)

 

I think it's pretty hard to get to the age of 22 and not have heard of Rand.

In the US maybe, in certain circles, in mommy and daddy's basement culture...

Everywhere else, outside of the Rush connection, she's totally obscure. As she should be...

 

Yes, if you're intellectually lazy and think that living in an echo-chamber is a good idea.

 

You're a fanboy, I get that.

Britney Spears has fanboys too.

 

You're incapable of discussing a topic on its merits, I get that.

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Do you believe that it is moral to, for example, feed your neighbor’s kids first and let your kids starve?

Nope.

You can take that example to the extreme. If your child and your neighbor’s child were dying of the same disease and you could only save one of them, who would you choose?

My own kid, of course. But that's just my sense of morality.

 

Why is it moral to see to your own interests before seeing to a stranger's? How is the morality of choice determined to be objective?

 

This is where Objectivism falls apart. It took me a while to get clear of it to see its failings, but it's so plain to see once you're on the outside looking in.

 

I really don’t understand your point. You say that Objectivism falls apart but in the two examples above you are right in line with it. You would choose to put your self-interest ahead of your neighbor’s. The truth is, we do it every day without even thinking about it because it makes sense. Putting our self-interest first doesn’t mean that we’re greedy, unkind or don’t care for others. That’s another misconception about Objectivism.

 

Yes, I see where your confusion about my point lies. I don't have a particular issue with some of Rand's specific moral pronouncements, just as I don't have issue with some of Christ's. My beef with Rand's morality requires a deeper understanding of Objectivism and philosophy, and I think this may be where you're struggling a bit.

 

Rand was very big on drawing a sharp dividing line between the rationality of her ethics and the mysticism of others, yet what she failed to grasp is that in trying to cast Objectivist ethics as objective, she committed the very sin she hoped to avoid. It was her failure to understand the fundamental nature of morality that caused me to reject it as advertised.

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Do you believe that it is moral to, for example, feed your neighbor’s kids first and let your kids starve?

Nope.

You can take that example to the extreme. If your child and your neighbor’s child were dying of the same disease and you could only save one of them, who would you choose?

My own kid, of course. But that's just my sense of morality.

 

Why is it moral to see to your own interests before seeing to a stranger's? How is the morality of choice determined to be objective?

 

This is where Objectivism falls apart. It took me a while to get clear of it to see its failings, but it's so plain to see once you're on the outside looking in.

 

I really don’t understand your point. You say that Objectivism falls apart but in the two examples above you are right in line with it. You would choose to put your self-interest ahead of your neighbor’s. The truth is, we do it every day without even thinking about it because it makes sense. Putting our self-interest first doesn’t mean that we’re greedy, unkind or don’t care for others. That’s another misconception about Objectivism.

 

Yes, I see where your confusion about my point lies. I don't have a particular issue with some of Rand's specific moral pronouncements, just as I don't have issue with some of Christ's. My beef with Rand's morality requires a deeper understanding of Objectivism and philosophy, and I think this may be where you're struggling a bit.

 

Rand was very big on drawing a sharp dividing line between the rationality of her ethics and the mysticism of others, yet what she failed to grasp is that in trying to cast Objectivist ethics as objective, she committed the very sin she hoped to avoid. It was her failure to understand the fundamental nature of morality that caused me to reject it as advertised.

 

When I started reading Rand's novels, I really liked a lot of the ideas in her books (though they weren't entertaining, or particularly good, on a literary level), but when I started reading more about objectivism as a philosophy I almost immediately rejected it for the same reason. Perhaps it was easier for me as I had just gone through the exercise of rejecting religion once and for all for the same reasons.

 

But I think all of the talk of how Objectivism fails in its stated goals or a comprehensive philosophy misses the point: that there are a lot of good ideas in her works that can be used in the formation, augmentation, and strengthening of your own beliefs, whether or not you agree with her. Of course, the same can be said for countless writers, philosophies, and ideas.

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Peart has been partly responsible for perpetuating Rand's legacy. But for him most people on this forum would never heard of her and her snivelling little personality cult masquerading as an intellectually robust philosophy.

 

I don't know if I would've never heard of Rand were it not for 2112, but yeah, 2112 was my gateway. :)

 

I think it's pretty hard to get to the age of 22 and not have heard of Rand.

In the US maybe, in certain circles, in mommy and daddy's basement culture...

Everywhere else, outside of the Rush connection, she's totally obscure. As she should be...

 

Yes, if you're intellectually lazy and think that living in an echo-chamber is a good idea.

 

You're a fanboy, I get that.

Britney Spears has fanboys too.

 

You're incapable of discussing a topic on its merits, I get that.

 

You posted:

 

I think it's pretty hard to get to the age of 22 and not have heard of Rand.

 

and

 

Yes, if you're intellectually lazy and think that living in an echo-chamber is a good idea.

 

The first is so banal I'm having serious doubts as to whether you actually interact with normal people. If you seriously believe there are lots of people out there who have heard of Ayn Rand then you really aren't worth discussing anything with. Baring in mind that I am from the UK I probably have as much chance of guessing a stranger's mobile phone number as them having heard of Ayn Rand un;less they are a Rush fan or a philosophy major.

 

As for the second statement, well I refer you back to my response just above.

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Peart has been partly responsible for perpetuating Rand's legacy. But for him most people on this forum would never heard of her and her snivelling little personality cult masquerading as an intellectually robust philosophy.

 

I don't know if I would've never heard of Rand were it not for 2112, but yeah, 2112 was my gateway. :)

 

I think it's pretty hard to get to the age of 22 and not have heard of Rand.

In the US maybe, in certain circles, in mommy and daddy's basement culture...

Everywhere else, outside of the Rush connection, she's totally obscure. As she should be...

 

Yes, if you're intellectually lazy and think that living in an echo-chamber is a good idea.

 

You're a fanboy, I get that.

Britney Spears has fanboys too.

 

You're incapable of discussing a topic on its merits, I get that.

 

You posted:

 

I think it's pretty hard to get to the age of 22 and not have heard of Rand.

 

and

 

Yes, if you're intellectually lazy and think that living in an echo-chamber is a good idea.

 

The first is so banal I'm having serious doubts as to whether you actually interact with normal people. If you seriously believe there are lots of people out there who have heard of Ayn Rand then you really aren't worth discussing anything with. Baring in mind that I am from the UK I probably have as much chance of guessing a stranger's mobile phone number as them having heard of Ayn Rand un;less they are a Rush fan or a philosophy major.

 

As for the second statement, well I refer you back to my response just above.

I had only seen her name a few times on an album of mine prior to age 22 and honestly didn't know who she was and the significance of her name being there. Wasn't the curious or intellectual sort I guess. I didn't really know much about her or her significance until the last few years... Edited by Narpsberg
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Peart has been partly responsible for perpetuating Rand's legacy. But for him most people on this forum would never heard of her and her snivelling little personality cult masquerading as an intellectually robust philosophy.

 

I don't know if I would've never heard of Rand were it not for 2112, but yeah, 2112 was my gateway. :)

 

I think it's pretty hard to get to the age of 22 and not have heard of Rand.

In the US maybe, in certain circles, in mommy and daddy's basement culture...

Everywhere else, outside of the Rush connection, she's totally obscure. As she should be...

 

Yes, if you're intellectually lazy and think that living in an echo-chamber is a good idea.

 

You're a fanboy, I get that.

Britney Spears has fanboys too.

 

You're incapable of discussing a topic on its merits, I get that.

 

You posted:

 

I think it's pretty hard to get to the age of 22 and not have heard of Rand.

 

and

 

Yes, if you're intellectually lazy and think that living in an echo-chamber is a good idea.

 

The first is so banal I'm having serious doubts as to whether you actually interact with normal people. If you seriously believe there are lots of people out there who have heard of Ayn Rand then you really aren't worth discussing anything with. Baring in mind that I am from the UK I probably have as much chance of guessing a stranger's mobile phone number as them having heard of Ayn Rand un;less they are a Rush fan or a philosophy major.

 

As for the second statement, well I refer you back to my response just above.

I hade only seen here name a few times on an album of mine prior to age 22 and honestly didn't know who she was and the significance of her name being there. Wasn't the curious or intellectual sort I guess. I didn't really know much about her or her significance until the last few years...

 

30 million books sold, movies based on her books (including one with Gary Cooper), postage stamps with her image/name on them, academy award winning documentary on her, mentions in TV shows, video games, movies, and repeated references in the media. Plus, liberals hate her so much they probably promote her more than the numerous politicians, business people and artists that publicly cite her as an inspiration. Unless you think that TRF is inhabited mostly of uneducated non-Americans, your assertion that most people here wouldn't have heard of her if not for Rush seems absurd. I mean, you can't read a story about Rand Paul, Ron Paul, or Paul Ryan without her name being thrown around. I don't think I could find 10 Americans who haven't heard of her without polling McDonald's workers...or at least engaging in asking a lot of people.

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Peart has been partly responsible for perpetuating Rand's legacy. But for him most people on this forum would never heard of her and her snivelling little personality cult masquerading as an intellectually robust philosophy.

 

I don't know if I would've never heard of Rand were it not for 2112, but yeah, 2112 was my gateway. :)

 

I think it's pretty hard to get to the age of 22 and not have heard of Rand.

In the US maybe, in certain circles, in mommy and daddy's basement culture...

Everywhere else, outside of the Rush connection, she's totally obscure. As she should be...

 

Yes, if you're intellectually lazy and think that living in an echo-chamber is a good idea.

 

You're a fanboy, I get that.

Britney Spears has fanboys too.

 

You're incapable of discussing a topic on its merits, I get that.

 

You posted:

 

I think it's pretty hard to get to the age of 22 and not have heard of Rand.

 

and

 

Yes, if you're intellectually lazy and think that living in an echo-chamber is a good idea.

 

The first is so banal I'm having serious doubts as to whether you actually interact with normal people. If you seriously believe there are lots of people out there who have heard of Ayn Rand then you really aren't worth discussing anything with. Baring in mind that I am from the UK I probably have as much chance of guessing a stranger's mobile phone number as them having heard of Ayn Rand un;less they are a Rush fan or a philosophy major.

 

As for the second statement, well I refer you back to my response just above.

I hade only seen here name a few times on an album of mine prior to age 22 and honestly didn't know who she was and the significance of her name being there. Wasn't the curious or intellectual sort I guess. I didn't really know much about her or her significance until the last few years...

 

30 million books sold, movies based on her books (including one with Gary Cooper), postage stamps with her image/name on them, academy award winning documentary on her, mentions in TV shows, video games, movies, and repeated references in the media. Plus, liberals hate her so much they probably promote her more than the numerous politicians, business people and artists that publicly cite her as an inspiration. Unless you think that TRF is inhabited mostly of uneducated non-Americans, your assertion that most people here wouldn't have heard of her if not for Rush seems absurd. I mean, you can't read a story about Rand Paul, Ron Paul, or Paul Ryan without her name being thrown around. I don't think I could find 10 Americans who haven't heard of her without polling McDonald's workers...or at least engaging in asking a lot of people.

I think you need to read my post again. I made no such assertions about anyone but me. Pretty sure I used the word "I" a sh*tload of times and never us or we... Edited by Narpsberg
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Peart has been partly responsible for perpetuating Rand's legacy. But for him most people on this forum would never heard of her and her snivelling little personality cult masquerading as an intellectually robust philosophy.

 

I don't know if I would've never heard of Rand were it not for 2112, but yeah, 2112 was my gateway. :)

 

I think it's pretty hard to get to the age of 22 and not have heard of Rand.

In the US maybe, in certain circles, in mommy and daddy's basement culture...

Everywhere else, outside of the Rush connection, she's totally obscure. As she should be...

 

Yes, if you're intellectually lazy and think that living in an echo-chamber is a good idea.

 

You're a fanboy, I get that.

Britney Spears has fanboys too.

 

You're incapable of discussing a topic on its merits, I get that.

 

You posted:

 

I think it's pretty hard to get to the age of 22 and not have heard of Rand.

 

and

 

Yes, if you're intellectually lazy and think that living in an echo-chamber is a good idea.

 

The first is so banal I'm having serious doubts as to whether you actually interact with normal people. If you seriously believe there are lots of people out there who have heard of Ayn Rand then you really aren't worth discussing anything with. Baring in mind that I am from the UK I probably have as much chance of guessing a stranger's mobile phone number as them having heard of Ayn Rand un;less they are a Rush fan or a philosophy major.

 

As for the second statement, well I refer you back to my response just above.

I hade only seen here name a few times on an album of mine prior to age 22 and honestly didn't know who she was and the significance of her name being there. Wasn't the curious or intellectual sort I guess. I didn't really know much about her or her significance until the last few years...

 

30 million books sold, movies based on her books (including one with Gary Cooper), postage stamps with her image/name on them, academy award winning documentary on her, mentions in TV shows, video games, movies, and repeated references in the media. Plus, liberals hate her so much they probably promote her more than the numerous politicians, business people and artists that publicly cite her as an inspiration. Unless you think that TRF is inhabited mostly of uneducated non-Americans, your assertion that most people here wouldn't have heard of her if not for Rush seems absurd. I mean, you can't read a story about Rand Paul, Ron Paul, or Paul Ryan without her name being thrown around. I don't think I could find 10 Americans who haven't heard of her without polling McDonald's workers...or at least engaging in asking a lot of people.

I think you need to read my post again. I made no such assertions about anyone but me. Pretty sure I used the word "I" a sh*tload of times and never us or we...

 

My post was directly addressing what TonyR said.

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Peart has been partly responsible for perpetuating Rand's legacy. But for him most people on this forum would never heard of her and her snivelling little personality cult masquerading as an intellectually robust philosophy.

 

I don't know if I would've never heard of Rand were it not for 2112, but yeah, 2112 was my gateway. :)

 

I think it's pretty hard to get to the age of 22 and not have heard of Rand.

In the US maybe, in certain circles, in mommy and daddy's basement culture...

Everywhere else, outside of the Rush connection, she's totally obscure. As she should be...

 

Yes, if you're intellectually lazy and think that living in an echo-chamber is a good idea.

 

You're a fanboy, I get that.

Britney Spears has fanboys too.

 

You're incapable of discussing a topic on its merits, I get that.

 

You posted:

 

I think it's pretty hard to get to the age of 22 and not have heard of Rand.

 

and

 

Yes, if you're intellectually lazy and think that living in an echo-chamber is a good idea.

 

The first is so banal I'm having serious doubts as to whether you actually interact with normal people. If you seriously believe there are lots of people out there who have heard of Ayn Rand then you really aren't worth discussing anything with. Baring in mind that I am from the UK I probably have as much chance of guessing a stranger's mobile phone number as them having heard of Ayn Rand un;less they are a Rush fan or a philosophy major.

 

As for the second statement, well I refer you back to my response just above.

I hade only seen here name a few times on an album of mine prior to age 22 and honestly didn't know who she was and the significance of her name being there. Wasn't the curious or intellectual sort I guess. I didn't really know much about her or her significance until the last few years...

 

30 million books sold, movies based on her books (including one with Gary Cooper), postage stamps with her image/name on them, academy award winning documentary on her, mentions in TV shows, video games, movies, and repeated references in the media. Plus, liberals hate her so much they probably promote her more than the numerous politicians, business people and artists that publicly cite her as an inspiration. Unless you think that TRF is inhabited mostly of uneducated non-Americans, your assertion that most people here wouldn't have heard of her if not for Rush seems absurd. I mean, you can't read a story about Rand Paul, Ron Paul, or Paul Ryan without her name being thrown around. I don't think I could find 10 Americans who haven't heard of her without polling McDonald's workers...or at least engaging in asking a lot of people.

I think you need to read my post again. I made no such assertions about anyone but me. Pretty sure I used the word "I" a sh*tload of times and never us or we...

 

My post was directly addressing what TonyR said.

Ok...
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Great conduct, respect for others opinions, providing a thoroughly good read. Bravo!

 

I was thinking the same thing. A discussion of philosophical, religious, or political beliefs can easily and quickly deteriorate into childish name-calling. It seems to me that the first person that resorts to name-calling loses the argument because they failed to respond with an intelligent counter-point. We know very little about each other so we don’t know how or why a person has come to believe what they do. Ayn Rand, for example, was born and raised in Communist Russia until she fled to the USA when she was 21. So her early life was very different compared to what one would experience if born and raised in the USA or a similar country. Her first hand experiences growing up under a Communist regime had a profound effect on her which can be seen in her writing.

Edited by TheBluePhoenix
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