An apology to all members of TRF concerning NEP.

[EagleMoon]

The definitions for antisocial and introvert are not the same so there must be a difference?

 

Very basically, people who have antisocial disorder aren't interested in other people in any positive way. They don't care about other peoples feelings not do they want to have any dealings with them unless it's for personal gain. Introverts are are inwardly focused but mainly because they feel shy around other people and feel more comfortable by themselves. These people crave the company of other people but can feel isolated because of their shyness.

[Aikenrooster]

Yep, he's a middle of the road writer in the context of his books, but I enjoy most of what he has written. I also put this particular book in the context of his time and place. All the money in the world can't help you shake anger and depression. Sure, he had the resources to take a different physical path through his cycle of response and the stages of grief, but the emotional and psychological triggers and mechanisms were the same as they would be for any person because, well, he's human.

 

And, wow, hey, he made some off-putting, poor taste comments about people. That's down right...

 

typical.

 

In other words, he did exactly what every person on this planet has done in a period of anger, sadness, or weakness (if anyone reading this dares to suggest *they* have not said, written, or done something in anger, sadness, or weakness they knew was wrong and immature, I will flat out call them a liar... and a hypocrite... and a hypocritical liar).

 

So, yeah, he wrote some tacky things. Pardon my french, but big f***ing deal. We have *all* written some tacky things, nearly all of us (myself included... just did in this paragraph, in fact) in this forum.

 

Everyone repeat after me.... Neil is not our friend. Neil owes us nothing. Neil should not be held to extraordinary standards because he is rich or famous. Neil should especially not be held to extraordinary standards because we are really, really, REALLY big fans of his music. Neil is, though, human and capable of making mistakes and even regretting those mistakes.

 

His only real mistake in this book, though, was taking what should have been left a personal journal and publishing it. That was indeed dumb. I suspect he published it thinking it was his way of trying to connect with fans, knowing that he doesn't connect well through other means. But the fact of the matter is this book was too raw, too personal, and too close to some very ugly, but equally real, aspects of the human psyche following tragedy and grief to be significantly helpful.

 

How about everyone get off their high horse regarding Neil and, rather than judging him, ask themselves why they find it so necessary to judge him?

Agree.

Agree.

I'm not on a "high horse." The whole point of this thread was to apologize and humble myself to the other posters on here, who I claimed were being on their "high horse" and judging Neil, when, they were sort of right all along.

 

First, my apologies. My rant was not intended to be at you (yet I didn't make that clear). It is actually intended to be directed at the general anti-Neil tone that permeates this and many other Rush forums.

 

In my response to LABT, I make it pretty clear that, yes, I do think Neil has some traits and behaviors that are flawed and odd. But I also try to make it pretty clear those things make him just like all of us: a person. Aside from money, fame, and musical talent, Neil is fundamentally the same as any of us, a flawed human being.

 

For some reason, though, there is a group of Rush fans who I think have a very unhealthy set of expectations from all three members of the group. Alex and Geddy, in my opinion, do a better job of managing those unhealthy expectations, in both the interpersonal and emotional sense. Neil, frankly, doesn't do as well managing the expectations. While I get that he is fundamentally an introvert and he is deeply uncomfortable with certain aspects of fame, I also think he can be his own worst enemy by not directly facing the challenge and his fears (e.g., formal meet and greets, etc.). Alas, I don't think he should be doing those things for his fans, rather I think he should be doing them for himself.

 

So, in the big picture, Alex and Geddy "play the game" and Neil does not. But, really, it's just that: a game. I can give some examples as to why it is a game and little more than folly. Neil gets accused of being a hypocrit for having expensive toys and hobbies, yet writing songs like CTTH or The Larger Bowl. Alex and Geddy also have very expensive toys and hobbies and play the same songs, but get a pass on their wealth. Every step of Neil's behavior gets picked apart and criticized, yet many, MANY Rush fans casually ignored Alex and his sons' own part in the Florida New Year's Eve incident (yes, the cops and hotel staff were overzealous, but it is pretty evident Alex and his son - his son in particular - didn't help their own cause). And here's the best one: Neil has made it clear that he wants to spend more time with his family and that is driving his lack of interest in touring, but fans then call him a hypocrit for spending time away from his family in the past and get angry at the idea that Neil's familial aspirations are likely to end the band's run. In other words, the man is admitting regret for some things, but fans are using his admitting that regret to somehow prove a point? The man can't win for trying.

 

So, I will throw out a tacky thought on this Easter Sunday.... if Neil has developed a Messiah Complex over the years, I would not be surprised. He has been repeatedly crucified by his "fans" for a very long time.

good post

[GabesCavesOfIce]

An introvert is likely to enjoy time spent alone and find less reward in time spent with large groups of people, though he or she may enjoy interactions with close friends. Trust is usually an issue of significance: a virtue of utmost importance to introverts is choosing a worthy companion. They prefer to concentrate on a single activity at a time and like to observe situations before they participate, especially observed in developing children and adolescents.[6] They are more analytical before speaking.[7] Introverts are easily overwhelmed by too much stimulation from social gatherings and engagement, introversion having even been defined by some in terms of a preference for a quiet, more minimally stimulating external environment.[8]

 

 

Antisocial (or dissocial) personality disorder is characterized by a pervasive pattern of disregard for, or violation of, the rights of others. There may be an impoverished moral sense or conscience and a history of crime, legal problems, and impulsive and aggressive behavior.

 

Thanks Wikipedia. Earlier in the thread, I think I mentioned anti social behavior. My apologies, I should have used the introvert wording, I don't think Neil would want to do anyone harm. He just finds us annoying. I get frustrated as well if I go long stretches without alone time.

[GeminiRising79]

I feel like I'm talking to my pets here lol

[laughedatbytime]

I feel like I'm talking to my pets here lol

Why, are your pets smarter than you?

 

Judging by your posts, it's hard to believe that's NOT the case, but maybe they're single celled.

[GabesCavesOfIce]

I am sensing a "complete incompatibility of temperament"...

 

Jason Dufner may show us the way...

 

 

 

.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Gabrielgil513

[bathory]

I remember reading the one where he rides his bike through africa and he definitely makes sure we know he's the smartest dude in the room. he's also much better at riding his bike in 100 degree heat than the normies and mouthbreathers who accompany him on his journey.

[bathory]

he thinks we're all dumb heshers too. but in my case he's right :haz: :haz:

[bathory]

overall though I never had a problem with neil's personality, and to be honest I think it's a bit strange that the way he acts gets dissected so much. there are much weirder and offputting personalities in rock out there. of course, saying something like that makes me a fanboy.

[Xanadoood]

overall though I never had a problem with neil's personality, and to be honest I think it's a bit strange that the way he acts gets dissected so much. there are much weirder and offputting personalities in rock out there. of course, saying something like that makes me a fanboy.

 

GG allin was much wierder than Neil .. Haha .. And slightly more offputting

[Disembodied Spirit]

At the end of the day, they're my favorite Rock band and I highly admire their skill and career. My money buys their albums, merch and concerts but no guarantee of any personal connection.

 

I think its normal human behavior to want to make a personal, irl connection with an individual/individuals u highly admire and/or have great passion for. Meeting all 3 together at the watergate hotel (on the mp tour) completed the circle for me, experientially. What a tremendous thrill that was! And Neil was very friendly even in light of "limelight"!

I try not to put people on a pedestal that high. Nothing good can come from too much admiration. Glad you got to meet them. Since they are private, not sure how I would greet Rush in a non- meet and greet style. I'll let you know if I stumble into Geddy on Bourbon Street.. In my job, I have been very fortunate to meet many celebrities. Recently Wayne Gretzky, Newt Gingrich and Gregg Allman among others. The thing to remember they are normal people with unique jobs. Treat them as you would want to be treated.

[JARG]

As one of the long-time "Neil is a dick" contingent, apology accepted. ;) Edited April 6, 2015 by JARG

[HemiBeers]

If you want a good, true example of anti-social, do some research on Ginger Baker.

[Tombstone Mountain]

At the end of the day, they're my favorite Rock band and I highly admire their skill and career. My money buys their albums, merch and concerts but no guarantee of any personal connection.

 

I think its normal human behavior to want to make a personal, irl connection with an individual/individuals u highly admire and/or have great passion for. Meeting all 3 together at the watergate hotel (on the mp tour) completed the circle for me, experientially. What a tremendous thrill that was! And Neil was very friendly even in light of "limelight"!

The thing to remember they are normal people with unique jobs. Treat them as you would want to be treated.

Have you ever met David Lee Roth?

[Experience2Extremes]

I have met David Lee Roth. And I expected him to be a dick. He was anything but.

[Tombstone Mountain]

I have met David Lee Roth. And I expected him to be a dick. He was anything but.

Did you have your girlfriend with you? See the US Festival 1983

[matthewpartrick]

The definitions for antisocial and introvert are not the same so there must be a difference?

 

The objective definitions are indeed different. However, one that sees himself as an introvert may very well be seen as antisocial by others. I tend to alienate people at social functions, not because I think I'm above them, but because it makes me nervous. Food for thought.

[Experience2Extremes]

I have met David Lee Roth. And I expected him to be a dick. He was anything but.

Did you have your girlfriend with you? See the US Festival 1983

No. Though I did spray water on him and then felt bad for the guy next to me who DID make the mistake of bringing HIS girlfriend.

[RUSHHEAD666]

Everyone is a hypocrite in some way. We criticize some people and ignore the faults of others - especially our own. We're biased towards the people close to us. It's standard operating procedure for human beings.

 

Neil Peart is a normal human being. I don't have a problem with him. I'm too busy trying to fix my own hypocricies..... :) :)

 

 

Roll away the stone

Roll away the stone

If you could just move yours

I could get working on my own

 

When I was in college I wanted to somehow prove that every human is a hypocrite. The book was going to be called "Hypocritical Mass." Sadly I never got around to it.

 

I used to love to read but I majored in English and I read too much and I just fuckking hate it now. Maybe I have ADD.

Anyway I too bought all the Neil books. I couldn't get past one chapter.

 

Beyond boring and quite college word over the top worthless. JMO

 

I will love Neil forever even though he blew me off backstage on the "Vapor Trails" Tour. LOL! Most of you know that fuckking story.

[Digital Dad]

Everyone is a hypocrite in some way. We criticize some people and ignore the faults of others - especially our own. We're biased towards the people close to us. It's standard operating procedure for human beings.

 

Neil Peart is a normal human being. I don't have a problem with him. I'm too busy trying to fix my own hypocricies..... :) :)

 

 

Roll away the stone

Roll away the stone

If you could just move yours

I could get working on my own

 

When I was in college I wanted to somehow prove that every human is a hypocrite. The book was going to be called "Hypocritical Mass." Sadly I never got around to it.

 

I used to love to read but I majored in English and I read too much and I just fuckking hate it now. Maybe I have ADD.

Anyway I too bought all the Neil books. I couldn't get past one chapter.

 

Beyond boring and quite college word over the top worthless. JMO

 

I will love Neil forever even though he blew me off backstage on the "Vapor Trails" Tour. LOL! Most of you know that fuckking story.

 

Lol...now that would be a great Album title.

[EagleMoon]

The definitions for antisocial and introvert are not the same so there must be a difference?

 

The objective definitions are indeed different. However, one that sees himself as an introvert may very well be seen as antisocial by others. I tend to alienate people at social functions, not because I think I'm above them, but because it makes me nervous. Food for thought.

 

I think the general public's idea of antisocial is a bit different than the reality. If somebody is truly antisocial they don't really like other people. I agree that someone who is shy can come across that way to others but the big defining difference is that someone who is antisocial doesn't really care what affect their actions have on others. Someone who is introverted usually cares very deeply about how their actions affect others. Sometimes too much, which can lead to avoidance.

[Digital Dad]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t0affoV5rI

[laughedatbytime]

Everyone is a hypocrite in some way. We criticize some people and ignore the faults of others - especially our own. We're biased towards the people close to us. It's standard operating procedure for human beings.

 

Neil Peart is a normal human being. I don't have a problem with him. I'm too busy trying to fix my own hypocricies..... :) :)

 

 

Roll away the stone

Roll away the stone

If you could just move yours

I could get working on my own

 

When I was in college I wanted to somehow prove that every human is a hypocrite. The book was going to be called "Hypocritical Mass." Sadly I never got around to it.

 

I used to love to read but I majored in English and I read too much and I just fuckking hate it now. Maybe I have ADD.

Anyway I too bought all the Neil books. I couldn't get past one chapter.

 

Beyond boring and quite college word over the top worthless. JMO

 

I will love Neil forever even though he blew me off backstage on the "Vapor Trails" Tour. LOL! Most of you know that fuckking story.

 

Lol...now that would be a great Album title.

I think that was Spinal Tap's follow up to Smell the Glove.

[patjnev]

I went through a sudden loss in 1996 at a similar time NEP did. I remember thinking I should write him a letter explaining how I coulld relate to his situation . And how my faith got me through it . I am glad I didn't now . It wouldn't of fared well with his beliefs. Sure I had been a fan for over a decade and here is the shocker , I didn't pay that much attention to the lyrics or was smart enough to realize his stance on religion. Truth is I just listen to the great music . The lyrics are a extra fun aspect also but I never took the time think them through.Neil got from us what he wanted and we go what we wanted .

[RUSHHEAD666]

Everyone is a hypocrite in some way. We criticize some people and ignore the faults of others - especially our own. We're biased towards the people close to us. It's standard operating procedure for human beings.

 

Neil Peart is a normal human being. I don't have a problem with him. I'm too busy trying to fix my own hypocricies..... :) :)

 

 

Roll away the stone

Roll away the stone

If you could just move yours

I could get working on my own

 

When I was in college I wanted to somehow prove that every human is a hypocrite. The book was going to be called "Hypocritical Mass." Sadly I never got around to it.

 

I used to love to read but I majored in English and I read too much and I just fuckking hate it now. Maybe I have ADD.

Anyway I too bought all the Neil books. I couldn't get past one chapter.

 

Beyond boring and quite college word over the top worthless. JMO

 

I will love Neil forever even though he blew me off backstage on the "Vapor Trails" Tour. LOL! Most of you know that fuckking story.

 

Lol...now that would be a great Album title.

I think that was Spinal Tap's follow up to Smell the Glove.

 

HAHAHAHA! I prefer a "SEX FARM WOMAN!"